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Hardware wise, today has not been a good day.

GruntyGrunty Fort Worth, TXPosts: 7,034Member Uncommon

First my chair breaks. It's almost 20 years old and cost about $500.00 but getting it fixed is only going to cost about $25.00. Bringing it out into the sunlight showed how stained and shop worn it had become. So there goes another $50 -$100 to get it upholstered.

Then my Nvidia 9800 GT dies. I'm getting random ASCII characters during DOS boot up. Windows won't even try to let it run. Any suggestions for a replacement? My absolute max on that it $200.00. I see the thread below about a 285 where the consensus appears to be a GTX 460 1GB. If that'll work then there's no reason to spend another 2 hours  rehashing the same thing.

A PSU isn't an issue but I also don't want a noisy card.

Comments

  • KilorTheMeekKilorTheMeek Upland, CAPosts: 260Member

    Definitely a GTX 460 at that budget.  Nothing else compares at that price.  

    image
    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    At MSRP, there is an obvious correct choice, and the Radeon HD 6850 is it.  Cards haven't been staying at MSRP, though.  The Radeon HD 6850 is too good of a deal at $180, and sites haven't been able to keep them in stock at that price, so they've raised prices and they're hard to find at $180 anymore.  You can probably find one from a number of brands for $200.

    Meanwhile, Nvidia's competitor is the GeForce GTX 460, and they've apparently made too many of them and are having trouble getting rid of them after AMD undercut them on prices with a better card that costs much less to build.  Rumors say that Nvidia is going to nix the die in favor of a respin that will be branded as the GeForce GTX 560 early next year, which also means they need to get rid of their old GTX 460s.  So there are some good deals to be found on a GeForce GTX 460.

    Do note that there are at least four different cards that go by the name of GeForce GTX 460.  That's not counting factory overclocks or different board vendors, either.  This will get you about 90% of the performance of the "real" one, if you're running at a resolution of 1680x1050 or lower:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162058

    That's a great deal if you don't need 1 GB of video memory.

    On the other hand, the Radeon HD 6850 and 6870 didn't just undercut Nvidia cards; they undercut older AMD cards that AMD has now had to slash prices on to get rid of them.  If you regard rebates as "free" and want the fastest new card you can get for $200, then this is it:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102884

    A Radeon HD 5850 is on average perhaps 30% faster than a GeForce GTX 460 768 MB.  The two cards use about the same power, as both have a TDP right around 150 W and need two 6-pin PCI-E power connectors.  Both use significantly more power than a Radeon HD 6850, which is about 10% faster than a GeForce GTX 460 768 MB, and significantly slower than a Radeon HD 5850.

  • GruntyGrunty Fort Worth, TXPosts: 7,034Member Uncommon

    Thank you. My current system's resolution is 1280 x 1024 but in the next 3 - 6 months I will be researching and getting a 23" + widescreen monitor with resolutions of around 1920 x whatever.  The combination of screen size and resolution will be determined by whether I have no issues reading text in-game on whichever combination I get at the native resolution. I'm aware of the various image quality issues with contrast, grey to grey speed, brightness, hz, and so on.

    And with a currently dead card, waiting six months for new hardware is out of the question on that. Multiple card or monitor combinations are out of the question.

    Inadequate power supplys have contributed to my last two cards dieing early. That won't happen again.

  • theyalllietheyalllie Acton, TXPosts: 229Member

    From everything I've read the 6850 looks like the best option for you, If you can get one at your price, before they are out of stock again. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150505 oh crud theres shipping on this one ,,,crap

    When they released they were under 200, but have been climbing in price.

    failing that http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127510 199.99 tho I found that the Hawk was even beter but is 9 bucks above your price range. The prices on the 460's will bounce as the 6850 is pretty much dictating their price mark. crap shipping again, $25 rebate if that makes it do able.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125333 189.99 ten dollar rebate.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    On your budget, there's nothing all that important coming in video cards.  A GeForce GTX 560 will probably offer roughly Radeon HD 6870 performance at a Radeon HD 6870 price.  Turks and Caicos may or may not offer better performance per dollar in their market segments than older cards, but that's below your budget and at best, would mean saving $10 or $20 for the same performance.  If you were looking to spend over $300 on a card, then Cayman would be worth waiting for, but that's out of your budget.  Other than those, there's nothing new coming until the industry moves to 28 nm HKMG processes, which could happen next summer if we're lucky.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    If you're going to buy a new monitor anyway, I'd keep the old one so that you can have two.  It's very convenient to have a browser or spreadsheet open on a second monitor that you can glance at while you're playing a game.  Nearly all modern video cards can take at least two monitors, and a second monitor not doing any significant 3D acceleration doesn't strain the video card meaningfully while playing games on the main monitor.  If you've never used two monitors before, it probably won't take you long to wonder how you ever got by with only one.

  • GruntyGrunty Fort Worth, TXPosts: 7,034Member Uncommon

    This is probably what I'll get especially if they have it at the Dallas store in the morning: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0351735  The issue I have with that listing is I haven't found the warranty information. VTX3D appears to be in the same corporate family as PowerColor.

    Although that $135.00 GTX 460 768mb you gave is setting off my bargain alarms.

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,299Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by KilorTheMeek

    Definitely a GTX 460 at that budget.  Nothing else compares at that price.  

    I could not agree more (I own one myself). And IMO, best to buy one from EVGA. Today they made a BIOS patch that updates performance and OC abilities (http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=498804)

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by grunty

    This is probably what I'll get especially if they have it at the Dallas store in the morning: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0351735  The issue I have with that listing is I haven't found the warranty information. VTX3D appears to be in the same corporate family as PowerColor.

    Although that $135.00 GTX 460 768mb you gave is setting off my bargain alarms.

    768 MB at 1920x1080 is risky.  It might work just fine and never give you any trouble.  Or it might run out of video memory in some games and force you to turn graphical settings down to well below what the card could have handled with more video memory.  At worst, it won't turn into a "game won't run" type of situation; you'll still be able to get good frame rates, but just at lower graphical settings.

    If you're looking to buy from MicroCenter and don't want to mess with rebates, then the Radeon HD 6850 that you picked out is probably the best deal on their site on your budget.  It's interesting that the Cypress cards are completely gone from their site already.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2010-gaming-graphics-charts-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-Totals,2485.html

    A benchmark test of most modern GFX cards. Get the best you can get find for your money.

    I would probably go for the 1Gb 460 GTX card myself since I don't think you can wait for AMDs next card that most likely will release in next month, it would be a better deal but a month without a gaming computer sucks.

    Don't believe me, use the chart instead to find out yourself (unless you can wait a month). :)

  • CatamountCatamount Indian Trail, NCPosts: 773Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2010-gaming-graphics-charts-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-Totals,2485.html

    A benchmark test of most modern GFX cards. Get the best you can get find for your money.

    I would probably go for the 1Gb 460 GTX card myself since I don't think you can wait for AMDs next card that most likely will release in next month, it would be a better deal but a month without a gaming computer sucks.

    Don't believe me, use the chart instead to find out yourself (unless you can wait a month). :)

    AMD "next" cards, as in the ones designed to compete with the Geforce GTX460, are already out. That's what's being discussed here. The 6850 and 6870 have been out for a bit now; that Tom's Hardware list just doesn't include them. The Radeon HD 6850 is as fast as the Geforce GTX460 across the board; in fact it's slightly faster in ever review I've ever seen, usually in every single game that isn't Farcry 2. The 6870 is a bit faster than the 470 (though sometimes not just a bit :) ).

    The only response Nvidia has had is to slash prices to death on their cards and sell them at no profit (if not a loss), and that does make them a good deal, though usually you have to deal with rebates to get those prices.

  • swing848swing848 Marion, OHPosts: 274Member



    Originally posted by Loke666
    http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2010-gaming-graphics-charts-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-Totals,2485.html
    A benchmark test of most modern GFX cards. Get the best you can get find for your money.
    I would probably go for the 1Gb 460 GTX card myself since I don't think you can wait for AMDs next card that most likely will release in next month, it would be a better deal but a month without a gaming computer sucks.
    Don't believe me, use the chart instead to find out yourself (unless you can wait a month). :)

    Tom has not updated that chart for HD 6800 series cards. May be he is waiting for 2011 ...

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  • GruntyGrunty Fort Worth, TXPosts: 7,034Member Uncommon

    Is this power supply Antec NeoPower 550 sufficient for this graphics card VTX3D Radeon HD6850  or not? The card is supposed to require a 450 watt PSU. The power supply is an efficient 550 watt PSU and has 3 12V+ rails @18amps each. I have been unable to find any amperage requirements for any Radeon 6850. The test given in that link on the PSU indicates it is capable of working at up to 650 watts. But I'm not an expert at PSUs. I don't want to be an expert at PSUs. I just want one that works properly.

    I removed my 9800 GT. I removed it's drivers. I used Guru3d's driver remover to ensure all Nvidia drivers were gone.

    I bought the card and installed it. I downloaded the latest Catalyst drivers ver 10.11. I attempted to install them.  All cables are properly installed and seated. The PSU has a modular cable system. I even tried the PCI-E power cable in a different slot. The only new hardware that has been recognised is the new ATI audio subsystem. The only drivers installed were for this audio system.

    I'm about to take this card back for a refund. The install CD is defective with bad blocks. There is absolutely no warranty information provided. And this card is not being recognized.

    I am an A+ Certified Service Technician and have been one since the days of Windows 3.11.

    Actually I'm starting to think it may be the motherboard and ECS G31T-M  with an Intel Core 2 Duo E6550

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/1011releasenotes.aspx

    Catalyst 10.11 doesn't support the Radeon HD 6850 or 6870.  It's an update for older cards, but AMD didn't have anything to update yet for the new Barts cards.  You'll be back on the normal schedule for driver updates with Catalyst 10.12.

    You need Catalyst 10.10.  Or probably better yet if you have Windows 7, the Catalyst 10.10e hotfix drivers.

    When you go to download drivers from AMD, pick your operating system as normal here and it will bring up Catalyst 10.11:

    http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/downloads.aspx

    Then click the "previous drivers" link near the bottom and it will offer older drivers.  Pick Catalyst 10.10 and it should work.

    -----

    The power supply should be plenty powerful enough.  I can't promise that it isn't defective, or that your motherboard isn't defective.  But do try Catalyst 10.10 first.

  • GruntyGrunty Fort Worth, TXPosts: 7,034Member Uncommon

    Thank you for your assistance but it is still failing. I did what you said to get previous driver versions but the most recent version for Win 7 32bit is listed as 10.7. I downloaded that. I uninstalled the 10.11 versions, rebooted, ran Driver Sweeper, rebooted and installed the 10.7 install app. I ran that install app. There has been no change in hardware detection. The only thing detected is the ATI audio.

    I've had my fill of bull shit for the day. The card is going back. A 90 mile round trip. A defective CD. No warranty information. A (to me) no-name manufacturer. A card that isn't recognized.

    I'm signing off and cooling down before I decide how to proceed from here.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/10-10_vista32_win7_32_dd_ccc_enu.exe

    There.  That's a direct link.  Try that.  That's what the AMD web site found as the Windows 7 32-bit drivers for a Radeon 6xxx series card.

    Catalyst 10.7 isn't going to work, either.  That was released long before the video card you just bought, so it won't recognize the card.

  • GruntyGrunty Fort Worth, TXPosts: 7,034Member Uncommon

    Unauthorized download.

    In both IE8 and Firefox 3.6

    Same thing if I try to drop the akamai.com pre-link.

    I was able to get to it through a link on the Leech page though. Downloading now.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    Weird.  It gives me that, too, and all I did was to copy the link address.  Well, here's the page that the link was on:

    http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/previous/10/Pages/radeon.aspx?os=Windows%20Vista%20-%2032-Bit%20Edition&rev=10.10

    The top "download" link for Catalyst Software Suite is the one you want.  I tried clicking the link from that page and it brought up the window to save the file.

  • GruntyGrunty Fort Worth, TXPosts: 7,034Member Uncommon

    I'll also download the hotfix if I can get to it. The hotfix is twice the size of the default 10.10 version. I will attempt the hotfix first.

    After reading up on it first

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    I'd try Catalyst 10.10 first, as that's throughly vetted by AMD.  It's conceivable that the hotfix might not work.  The hotfixes are really only recommended for people having trouble with the normal drivers, and AMD will use the hotfix to fix bugs in particular games.  Think of the Catalyst 10.10e hotfix as a beta version of Catalyst 10.12.

    It usually isn't this hard to get AMD's desktop drivers.  (Laptop drivers can be a problem for some people, as some OEMs disable driver updates.)  You just go to the AMD web page, click on the Catalyst link right on the front page, and it takes you to the page to pick your OS and get the drivers.  I guess this is a weird exception.

  • GruntyGrunty Fort Worth, TXPosts: 7,034Member Uncommon

    That worked. I did install 10.10. Thank you for your patience and persistence.

    The card appears fully recognized and working. I'll reserve judgement on it's capabilities until I actually get some play time. I still think AMD/ATI dropped the ball big time on clarifying which driver will work with these cards and giving access to them.

    The only way I was able to finally get to the 10.10 drivers without all this rigamarole was to click on the link in the bottom right corner of the install application itself. At some later time I will also review what I did and didn't do in trying to resolve this. Sometimes thinking too much is as much of a problem as not thinkiing enough.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    The way that AMD intended for you to find the drivers is to go to their web page (e.g., a Google search for AMD finds it), select your card in the box in the top right corner of their web page, and click "view results" and it takes you to the drivers.  That's how I got the 10.10 link.  Most of the time just clicking the "Catalyst" link in that box takes you directly there.  That should work for all future drivers, but this case is an exception.

    Part of the problem is that the drop down boxes don't work properly in all browsers.  It works in Firefox, but doesn't work in Opera, for some reason.  I'm not sure why, but AMD really should fix that.

  • noquarternoquarter Vancouver, WAPosts: 1,170Member


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Part of the problem is that the drop down boxes don't work properly in all browsers.  It works in Firefox, but doesn't work in Opera, for some reason.  I'm not sure why, but AMD really should fix that.

    Works fine in Opera 10.63 for me.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by noquarter

     




    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Part of the problem is that the drop down boxes don't work properly in all browsers.  It works in Firefox, but doesn't work in Opera, for some reason.  I'm not sure why, but AMD really should fix that.




     

    Works fine in Opera 10.63 for me.

    That's weird.  Now it works for me, too.  It had previously been broken for a long, long time.  If I tried to click on a drop down box, it would think I was clicking on a link to another page and the whole page would go.  The only exception would be if I clicked on the far left side of the drop down box, and then it would work.

  • end0rphineend0rphine SydneyPosts: 18Member

    Originally posted by grunty

    First my chair breaks. It's almost 20 years old and cost about $500.00 but getting it fixed is only going to cost about $25.00. Bringing it out into the sunlight showed how stained and shop worn it had become. So there goes another $50 -$100 to get it upholstered.

    Then my Nvidia 9800 GT dies. I'm getting random ASCII characters during DOS boot up. Windows won't even try to let it run. Any suggestions for a replacement? My absolute max on that it $200.00. I see the thread below about a 285 where the consensus appears to be a GTX 460 1GB. If that'll work then there's no reason to spend another 2 hours  rehashing the same thing.

    A PSU isn't an issue but I also don't want a noisy card.

    Today hasn't been a good day hardware wise for me either. First of all I find out my recently acquired amplifier to power my new expensive headphones is faulty. Then I discover that my DAC device is f**king up as well. Now I can't listen to any decent music because all my music is on my computer, and the onboard sound is broken. FML.

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