Totally agree with your reply. One thing though, I think that ArenaNet has more money than most of the P2P and F2P MMORPG's. I mean, ArenaNet' their cashshop won't change that much from GW1, and they sold ALOT of copies (GW1). Gamers appreciate the way they handle their game and the onces playing it. I hope it's going to make them filthy rich for GW2.
What makes you think Arena Net has any say in the matter? I'm pretty sure NCSoft is calling the shots on what there charging and NCSoft has already shown there going the Cash Shop route with all there games.
As for development costs go, they pretty much get all there money back on the box game at release, big name MMO like this one usually sale over Million copies in the first couple weeks @ $60-$80 a pop depending if you get the special edition or not. so they make a ton of money right away, the $15 fee covers hardware costs and GM's and Programmers, but as shown by other MMO's, you only need about 100k-200k subscribers to keep making a profit.
I just don't like the trend were seeing. Customizing your toon used to be free and part of the main game, now its been taken out and they want extra money to customize your look.
NCSoft has proven its nothing but a money whore when it comes to there games.
Totally agree with your reply. One thing though, I think that ArenaNet has more money than most of the P2P and F2P MMORPG's. I mean, ArenaNet' their cashshop won't change that much from GW1, and they sold ALOT of copies (GW1). Gamers appreciate the way they handle their game and the onces playing it. I hope it's going to make them filthy rich for GW2.
What makes you think Arena Net has any say in the matter? I'm pretty sure NCSoft is calling the shots on what there charging and NCSoft has already shown there going the Cash Shop route with all there games.
As for development costs go, they pretty much get all there money back on the box game at release, big name MMO like this one usually sale over Million copies in the first couple weeks @ $60-$80 a pop depending if you get the special edition or not. so they make a ton of money right away, the $15 fee covers hardware costs and GM's and Programmers, but as shown by other MMO's, you only need about 100k-200k subscribers to keep making a profit.
I just don't like the trend were seeing. Customizing your toon used to be free and part of the main game, now its been taken out and they want extra money to customize your look.
NCSoft has proven its nothing but a money whore when it comes to there games.
what company isn't a "money whore"? They all exist for one, simple purpose: Making money.
what company isn't a "money whore"? They all exist for one, simple purpose: Making money.
Years ago Game Developers used to take pride in there work, true they wanted to make money but more so they wanted a good product that people enjoyed to play at a fair price. Now a days with corporations like EA buying up all the individual developers, they are milking players for every last cent while providing sub-par games, most being bugged and needing several patches before even being playable.
DLC is just a new way to milk even more money from players, usually with content that should of been provided in the main game to begin with, and in most cases this extra content was actually shown in previews as part of the main game, only to be locked and sold later as a DLC.
If you haven't noticed, games are becoming shorter and shorter and DLC's seem to come out really fast, I wonder why?!?
what company isn't a "money whore"? They all exist for one, simple purpose: Making money.
Years ago Game Developers used to take pride in there work, true they wanted to make money but more so they wanted a good product that people enjoyed to play at a fair price. Now a days with corporations like EA buying up all the individual developers, they are milking players for every last cent while providing sub-par games, most being bugged and needing several patches before even being playable.
DLC is just a new way to milk even more money from players, usually with content that should of been provided in the main game to begin with, and in most cases this extra content was actually shown in previews as part of the main game, only to be locked and sold later as a DLC.
If you haven't noticed, games are becoming shorter and shorter and DLC's seem to come out really fast, I wonder why?!?
I'm gonna have to call Bullshit on this one.
Years ago, Game Developers cared about making money
The original journalism is faulty. Ergo a lot of the comments that follow from people who didn't read the PC Gamer article properly are also flawed.
I for one do not care if GW2 is F2P, micro-transaction, or subscription based. I'll definitely be playing it and I suspect that a good deal of you who make ridiculous threats and whines will also sell your own grandmothers - if required - once it releases.
You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks ~ WC
what company isn't a "money whore"? They all exist for one, simple purpose: Making money.
Years ago Game Developers used to take pride in there work, true they wanted to make money but more so they wanted a good product that people enjoyed to play at a fair price. Now a days with corporations like EA buying up all the individual developers, they are milking players for every last cent while providing sub-par games, most being bugged and needing several patches before even being playable.
DLC is just a new way to milk even more money from players, usually with content that should of been provided in the main game to begin with, and in most cases this extra content was actually shown in previews as part of the main game, only to be locked and sold later as a DLC.
If you haven't noticed, games are becoming shorter and shorter and DLC's seem to come out really fast, I wonder why?!?
I'm gonna have to call Bullshit on this one.
Years ago, Game Developers cared about making money
Today, they still care about making money.
Tomorrow, it will still be about money.
Pretty much, the difference between a greedy developer/publisher and a not so greedy one is that a not so greedy one will try to make a profit while pissing off their player base the least. A greedy one (SoE and Cryptic/Atari I'm looking at you) just doesn't care if it's player base gets pissed off during their quest for profits.
Ree Soesbee (one of the GW2 game designers) is gorgeous.....and, I might add, an insanely creative writer. She is my geek girl crush....big time.
I can't buy her flowers, I'm in a very long term relationship and quite happy. But....that is one smokin' woman. I, for one, don't mind helping her get rich. =D
I'm down with GW2 whatever route they take.
On topic:
BY THE WAY....for the people going on and on about DLC and "GW2 will Sell More Dungeons" article in PCGamer:...Eric DID clarify that interview and it's stupidly named title:
Years ago, Game Developers cared about making money
Today, they still care about making money.
Tomorrow, it will still be about money.
I'll try and make this more simple so you can understand....
A good game publisher/developer will make a high quality game and give you everything they promised, they don't release a game unfinished just so they can cash in (Cough Cough Electronic Arts Cough Cough), they also give you lots of content for the money.
A Bad greedy publisher/developer will release a game unfinished with lots of bugs in order to cash in, usually release a patch many months later to finish/fix content. They release games with existing content locked only to sell it later as DLC content, when it was actually part of the original game. It's shady practices like this that separate a greedy money whore Developers from a Good ones.
I'm 90% sure ill still buy GW2 because my friends plan on playing it and I enjoy hanging out with them, but if GW2 turn into a cash shop where you have to keep buying content every month or two I'll definitely not be playing any Arena Net games in the future.
I guess my major fear will be that the main game will run out of content quickly forcing you to pay for these DLC's to continue to play. If people run out of content after a couple months of playing then I know my prediciton will come true and it will probably end up costing us more money to play the game then if you were paying a fixed $15 a month rate.
BY THE WAY....for the people going on and on about DLC and "GW2 will Sell More Dungeons" article in PCGamer:...Eric DID clarify that interview and it's stupidly named title:
Odds are Arena Net is seeing a backlash from their original statement and he's trying to put out a fire before it gets out of control. It's obvious that Dungeons are on the table for DLC or he wouldn't of mentioned it in the first place.
Look if they release DLC Content that's rich with story and lots of content for say $9.99, then I probably wouldn't have any issues with it, BUT if they do what most companies do with DLC now a days and release shoddy DLC content that only gives you maybe a couple hours of content in order to make a quick buck then there will be problem.
I rather them take there time and just release a proper expansion 10-12 months after the game is released. If there already talking about DLC before the game even comes out, that tells me that GW2 is going to be released with limited content.
Everytime you bought a non-online games before, you would have fun playing it. You could play it for months if you desire so. If the game sells expansions, DLCs or even a sequel of the game, you would then buy it, right? Î mean, you had fun playing the game and played it for months, than you heard about an expansion, some DLCs or a sequel and you buy them, whether you are bored or not. But if you like playing the game as it is now, nothing will change the fact that you can still play it.
Ex: I have PES 2010 for PS2, I don't have PS3 nor PES/FIFA 2011. I have a blast with it. I have friends that have PS3 and FIFA/PES 2011, but they still come to my home to play the "old" games and have a blast. Why? because it's fun. I wasn't forced to buy anything "better" to still have fun playing it. BUT if I got bored of the game, than I would buy another game or a "better" one. AND MOST OF IMPORTANT, I don't have to keep paying each month in order to play the game.
Well, if GW2 pulls of the fun gameplay, the deal is exactly the same isnt it? I have GW2 original and have a blast playing it. Some dungeons get out in DLC and 1 expansion gets out 6 months later. If I don't get bored playing it for 6 months, than I may not feel the need to buy DLC nor expansions. Well, if I get bored playing it, than I will buy what I think is the best. Most people buy singleplayer games and other games for the same price as probably GW2 will be, and finish them in 1-2 months, than they get bored and buy another one. If they don't get bored, they only buy another if they want to. The principle is the same. At least you don't need o pay monthly to be able to play it.
This will be an MMORPG, which means people will be goaded into buying new content just to stay on a level playing field with everyone else.
I'd say that would be a concern in a game where, for example, items = power, like WoW. If you could buy a higher tier of armor in the online store in WoW, that would goad people into buying it to stay on a level playing field. However, GW2 isn't going that route... you can craft gear as good stat-wise and end-game dungeon gear. Based on that paradigm for the game, I think your fears, while well-founded in history, may not actually apply here.
Sorry but item stats are not the only thing that people are concerned about. Dress-up barbie is big in mmorpgs, various parts of the world that are added later, extra dungeons, etc...
It is a major drag to some people if they can't travel to certain parts with their friend because they didn't buy an expansion, or didn't purchase a certain dungeon in the store.
Also keep in mind that because GW2 is an MMORPG it probably will have legitimate expansions, no stand-alones.
It's absolutely no different to how it is now with GW, if you didn't buy further chapters or the expansion you aren't going to be able to join your friends who have, that's the way the business model works, millions accepted that and get on with GW just fine.
GW1 was not an mmorpg.
Guild Wars is obviously an MMORPG.
Guild Wars is Massive
Guild Wars is Multi-player
Guild Wars is Online
Guild Wars is a Role Playing Game
According to anet themselves it was not an MMORPG. The massive referring to massive multiplayer aka lots of players in a persistent world, not the size of the world.
BY THE WAY....for the people going on and on about DLC and "GW2 will Sell More Dungeons" article in PCGamer:...Eric DID clarify that interview and it's stupidly named title:
Odds are Arena Net is seeing a backlash from their original statement and he's trying to put out a fire before it gets out of control. It's obvious that Dungeons are on the table for DLC or he wouldn't of mentioned it in the first place.
Look if they release DLC Content that's rich with story and lots of content for say $9.99, then I probably wouldn't have any issues with it, BUT if they do what most companies do with DLC now a days and release shoddy DLC content that only gives you maybe a couple hours of content in order to make a quick buck then there will be problem.
I rather them take there time and just release a proper expansion 10-12 months after the game is released. If there already talking about DLC before the game even comes out, that tells me that GW2 is going to be released with limited content.
Oh...I DEFINITELY agree with you.
As a matter of fact, to let you know how much I, personally, expect in DLC.....
I played Dragon Age: Origins. Great game, right? Well after I had spent a total of over 100 bucks and had still not purchased all the DLC available....I was PISSED. Bioware could be making a virtual reality 3D Star Wars where you can fly REAL fucking rockets to the moon and I wouldn't buy anything else from them.
Guild Wars has a better track record than that from GW1's item shop, for one, and I do sincerely believe that they WANT a happy player base. I will give them the benefit of the doubt until (if and when) they prove me wrong to have done so.
I'm fine with EXPANSIONS like what they did with Eye of the North, but if they're going to do things the way that Bioware did with DA:O's DLC....screw that. I don't want to buy another chapter in a little storybook.
Ya know, call me crazy but I really don't care if they sell extra content. I actually hope they pump it out like crazy. I mean I'm used to subscription MMO's where new content doesn't come around for months at a time. Maybe if people are forking out some dough, they will pump out more DLC.
Comments
What makes you think Arena Net has any say in the matter? I'm pretty sure NCSoft is calling the shots on what there charging and NCSoft has already shown there going the Cash Shop route with all there games.
As for development costs go, they pretty much get all there money back on the box game at release, big name MMO like this one usually sale over Million copies in the first couple weeks @ $60-$80 a pop depending if you get the special edition or not. so they make a ton of money right away, the $15 fee covers hardware costs and GM's and Programmers, but as shown by other MMO's, you only need about 100k-200k subscribers to keep making a profit.
I just don't like the trend were seeing. Customizing your toon used to be free and part of the main game, now its been taken out and they want extra money to customize your look.
NCSoft has proven its nothing but a money whore when it comes to there games.
what company isn't a "money whore"? They all exist for one, simple purpose: Making money.
Years ago Game Developers used to take pride in there work, true they wanted to make money but more so they wanted a good product that people enjoyed to play at a fair price. Now a days with corporations like EA buying up all the individual developers, they are milking players for every last cent while providing sub-par games, most being bugged and needing several patches before even being playable.
DLC is just a new way to milk even more money from players, usually with content that should of been provided in the main game to begin with, and in most cases this extra content was actually shown in previews as part of the main game, only to be locked and sold later as a DLC.
If you haven't noticed, games are becoming shorter and shorter and DLC's seem to come out really fast, I wonder why?!?
I'm gonna have to call Bullshit on this one.
Years ago, Game Developers cared about making money
Today, they still care about making money.
Tomorrow, it will still be about money.
The original journalism is faulty. Ergo a lot of the comments that follow from people who didn't read the PC Gamer article properly are also flawed.
I for one do not care if GW2 is F2P, micro-transaction, or subscription based. I'll definitely be playing it and I suspect that a good deal of you who make ridiculous threats and whines will also sell your own grandmothers - if required - once it releases.
You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks
~ WC
Already preorder the collector's edition?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Pretty much, the difference between a greedy developer/publisher and a not so greedy one is that a not so greedy one will try to make a profit while pissing off their player base the least. A greedy one (SoE and Cryptic/Atari I'm looking at you) just doesn't care if it's player base gets pissed off during their quest for profits.
Ree Soesbee (one of the GW2 game designers) is gorgeous.....and, I might add, an insanely creative writer. She is my geek girl crush....big time.
I can't buy her flowers, I'm in a very long term relationship and quite happy. But....that is one smokin' woman. I, for one, don't mind helping her get rich. =D
I'm down with GW2 whatever route they take.
On topic:
BY THE WAY....for the people going on and on about DLC and "GW2 will Sell More Dungeons" article in PCGamer:...Eric DID clarify that interview and it's stupidly named title:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=418849&postcount=189
And more interesting info from GW2's Twitter account:
guildwars2 Guild Wars 2
There will be an auction house. This will have both in-game and web parts, and will be a really robust and cool feature.
9 Oct Favorite Retweet Reply
»
guildwars2 Guild Wars 2
Remaining four professions: at least one is a returning profession, at least one is similar with a different name, and at least one is new.
9 Oct Favorite Retweet Reply
»
guildwars2 Guild Wars 2
Eric: Every dungeon has a unique armor and weapon set. At the end of a run, you get a token so you can exchange for the exact piece you want
9 Oct Favorite Retweet Reply
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I'll try and make this more simple so you can understand....
A good game publisher/developer will make a high quality game and give you everything they promised, they don't release a game unfinished just so they can cash in (Cough Cough Electronic Arts Cough Cough), they also give you lots of content for the money.
A Bad greedy publisher/developer will release a game unfinished with lots of bugs in order to cash in, usually release a patch many months later to finish/fix content. They release games with existing content locked only to sell it later as DLC content, when it was actually part of the original game. It's shady practices like this that separate a greedy money whore Developers from a Good ones.
I'm 90% sure ill still buy GW2 because my friends plan on playing it and I enjoy hanging out with them, but if GW2 turn into a cash shop where you have to keep buying content every month or two I'll definitely not be playing any Arena Net games in the future.
I guess my major fear will be that the main game will run out of content quickly forcing you to pay for these DLC's to continue to play. If people run out of content after a couple months of playing then I know my prediciton will come true and it will probably end up costing us more money to play the game then if you were paying a fixed $15 a month rate.
Odds are Arena Net is seeing a backlash from their original statement and he's trying to put out a fire before it gets out of control. It's obvious that Dungeons are on the table for DLC or he wouldn't of mentioned it in the first place.
Look if they release DLC Content that's rich with story and lots of content for say $9.99, then I probably wouldn't have any issues with it, BUT if they do what most companies do with DLC now a days and release shoddy DLC content that only gives you maybe a couple hours of content in order to make a quick buck then there will be problem.
I rather them take there time and just release a proper expansion 10-12 months after the game is released. If there already talking about DLC before the game even comes out, that tells me that GW2 is going to be released with limited content.
According to anet themselves it was not an MMORPG. The massive referring to massive multiplayer aka lots of players in a persistent world, not the size of the world.
Oh...I DEFINITELY agree with you.
As a matter of fact, to let you know how much I, personally, expect in DLC.....
I played Dragon Age: Origins. Great game, right? Well after I had spent a total of over 100 bucks and had still not purchased all the DLC available....I was PISSED. Bioware could be making a virtual reality 3D Star Wars where you can fly REAL fucking rockets to the moon and I wouldn't buy anything else from them.
Guild Wars has a better track record than that from GW1's item shop, for one, and I do sincerely believe that they WANT a happy player base. I will give them the benefit of the doubt until (if and when) they prove me wrong to have done so.
I'm fine with EXPANSIONS like what they did with Eye of the North, but if they're going to do things the way that Bioware did with DA:O's DLC....screw that. I don't want to buy another chapter in a little storybook.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
The worst part about DLC is when 6 months after you buy the game, the game with all DLC included is half the price you paid to get it!
Guild Wars has always been buy2play with a regular expansion that you buy...nothing new here.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
Ya know, call me crazy but I really don't care if they sell extra content. I actually hope they pump it out like crazy. I mean I'm used to subscription MMO's where new content doesn't come around for months at a time. Maybe if people are forking out some dough, they will pump out more DLC.
People that think that anythinmg in live comes for free are so......
We should not discuss price but value for our money..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)