It's not my job to make sure you are well-informed, it is your own job to make sure you are well-informed. You can say you've played GW1 for ages, but obviously you haven't if you did not realize that anet set out originally not to have any microtransactions whatsoever and promised a game that could be high quality with no addition charges after box fee.
As I said before it was even in their official FAQ when GW1 was in development and they were sharing their game philosophies.
And yet here we all are, waiting not for Guild Wars 1 but for Guild Wars 2. A game that should keep me occupied for 100s of hours. A game where the developers clearly state "there will be no monthly fees" and you know what... THERE WON'T BE ANY. So if you're gonna continue to throw a hissy fit over a bit of optional content for a game that doesn't even have a release date yet, then why wait for game to begin with? Why agonize over this pointless DLC nonesense, when you haven't even touched the game 1st?
It's not my job to make sure you are well-informed, it is your own job to make sure you are well-informed. You can say you've played GW1 for ages, but obviously you haven't if you did not realize that anet set out originally not to have any microtransactions whatsoever and promised a game that could be high quality with no addition charges after box fee.
As I said before it was even in their official FAQ when GW1 was in development and they were sharing their game philosophies.
And yet here we all are, waiting not for Guild Wars 1 but for Guild Wars 2. A game that should keep me occupied for 100s of hours. A game where the developers clearly state "there will be no monthly fees" and you know what... THERE WON'T BE ANY. So if you're gonna continue to throw a hissy fit over a bit of optional content for a game that doesn't even have a release date yet, then why wait for game to begin with? Why agonize over this pointless DLC nonesense, when you haven't even touched the game 1st?
No one here is agonizing, and any fees they could think to try and nickel and dime outta me would not be significant to me, just merely pointing out that they have sold out on their old philosophies to try and turn larger profit margins.
I have no problem with it from a financial standpoint, it's just that if a company sells out on one of their original core philosophies who knows what is next, it's happened to many gaming companies as they have gotten more and more popular.
Like I said, prove it. Oh wait you can't.....wonder why?
You are right. He can't because he doesn't play Guild Wars and never have. Even if you ask him to provide evidence that he had, Robert would just make excuses. I bet he just watched videos of Guild Wars and base his views on them trying to make himself sound valid. Robert is just a conventional MMORPG "fanboi" who'll use every opportunity to negatively criticize Arena Net and their games. I'm all for criticism, but Robert's claims are just getting ridiculous.
You know what at this point everyone should just ignore Robert from now on. He's posting baseless claims and continuing pointless arguments only to rile people up. Hmm Derek Smart 2.0? Robert just go back to whatever game you came from and feel free to bash Arena Net and their games over there if you want. Also if you are going to play Guild Wars 2, please post your ign so I won't end up playing with you.
I really hate Micro Transaction Shops, ruins the game IMO. I prefer the older model of the first Guild Wars. Release the main game and then every year release an expansion for $19.99
I know why they want the DLC, they will make a lot more money, odds our they will probably charge us $9.99 for each new DLC and probably release a dozen or so of them a year. My issue will be how much content do we get in each DLC, if its only like 4-5 hours worth of content then I have a real issue with that.
I've always posted in the past that its just a matter of time before the game box comes with a credit card slider, every time you want to go into a dungeon you will have to swipe your credit card for a $5 charge. This is where it's all going sad to say. But as long as people keep dumping money in there laps for Micro Transactions there going to keep doing it, to the point that everything in the game will be a micro-transaction.
All I know is if we pay $50 for the main game and say $10 for each DLC, the DLC better be a min. of 1/5th the size of the main game. The norm for DLC's are usually like 1/8th the size if not smaller = few hours of content.
If this is the case, then I would prefer a $15 month fee. His statement that a monthly fee makes programmers lazy is wrong, if programmers get lazy, players will simply quit there game. He's just trying to justify nickel and diming the customers to death.
I really hate Micro Transaction Shops, ruins the game IMO. I prefer the older model of the first Guild Wars. Release the main game and then every year release an expansion for $19.99
I know why they want the DLC, they will make a lot more money, odds our they will probably charge us $9.99 for each new DLC and probably release a dozen or so of them a year. My issue will be how much content do we get in each DLC, if its only like 4-5 hours worth of content then I have a real issue with that.
I've always posted in the past that its just a matter of time before the game box comes with a credit card slider, every time you want to go into a dungeon you will have to swipe your credit card for a $5 charge. This is where it's all going sad to say. But as long as people keep dumping money in there laps for Micro Transactions there going to keep doing it, to the point that everything in the game will be a micro-transaction.
All I know is if we pay $50 for the main game and say $10 for each DLC, the DLC better be a min. of 1/5th the size of the main game. The norm for DLC's are usually like 1/8th the size if not smaller = few hours of content.
If this is the case, then I would prefer a $15 month fee. His statement that a monthly fee makes programmers lazy is wrong, if programmers get lazy, players will simply quit there game. He's just trying to justify nickel and diming the customers to death.
Could we maybe wait till we actually see what's out and what it costs before we start screaming about being nickle and dimed to death?
Could we maybe wait till we actually see what's out and what it costs before we start screaming about being nickle and dimed to death?
Please?
The hyperbole of some of these posts is insane.
My thoughts exactly. The game doesn't even have a release date and yet people bitchin' about how ANet's forcibly taking all of our money. Just funny that people assume they'll HAVE to buy whatever ANet plans to put on the Item shop, no matter how superficial it is. Personally I wouldn't mind buying a dungeon pack or two, because playing the same old endgame dungeons would eventually get boring and I may lose interest whilst I wait for annual/bi-annual expansions.
But this is all hypothetical, since like I said before... the game doesn't even have a release date yet. I blame ANet threads like these, because right now people (like me) are scavenging for any scrap of new info an whatever new info we get will eventually get warped into an endless spiral of speculation. If we only had a date for the Beta... that would easily put an end to this thread. ^_^
Ok, let me try to explain this to you in a different way. Here's the reason you aren't finding any support and why you will find yourself in an extremely small minority in regards to trying to jump on Anet for having the DLC stuff.
Anet isn't selling you a game piecemeal like F2P's do. You are going to get a full game from Anet. The stuff that will be DLC like will be extra's. It's like buying Dragon Age. You buy the game and you have the full game. They added in extra's later. This is the difference. This is why no one has a problem with Anet besides you and maybe a handful of others.
Anet isn't saying... "Ok here's the world, you can go here, here and there but thats it for free and you get these handful of classes and can play these 3 races. Now if you want to enjoy the full game you have to buy this, this and this and upgrade to premium. Then of course we have extra stuff for you to buy".
You get the full game with your purchase, you only have to pay for the extra little stuff if you want it but none of it will be required to play or enjoy the game.
If you want to stand up for your principles go have your little spat and rant over on the game forums of truly deserving games. There is a slew of pay to play MMO's that have the same type of shop your trying to attack Anet for using but they charge a monthly fee on top. There is a heap of free to play games for you to posture around and bash with your principles that don't give you a full game unless your willing to buy it piecemeal.
Hell go over to the EQ2, LotRO and DDO forums and give them what for if you want.
But here, your simply not going to find the support your looking for lol. Were not idiots and we know the deal we get with Anet, it's one of the best business models in the business. EvE and DFO are also some pretty nice business models.
The rest are far worse. Buy the game, buy the expansions, buy from the online store, and pay a monthly fee to boot. Or we get to suffer through the horrid free to play model which gives you the bare minimum and tells you well... if you want to enjoy the game your gonna have to pay and pay and pay and if you stop paying? Well we will cut off the content you paid for lol.
So get over it already. If you don't want to play, then fine. But your on the losing side of battle that was won 5ish years ago when they proved that not only does their business model work but that it was also very profitable AND it was widely accepted.
But continue ranting and raving if you wish, I just wish you saw the futility in it.
In any case, if you do wish to continue at least wait till Anet gives you some ammunition and by ammunition I mean something real not this whole "We may add stuff like that if thats what the player base wants" kind of crud.
It's like buying Dragon Age. You buy the game and you have the full game. They added in extra's later.
It's like they already have that part of the game developed and decided to cut it out of release so they could charge you for it as extra. The DLC and RMT in GW2 will likely be the same. Sure, it's optional fluff, but it's things that were developed before the game was released, which should be included in the pricetag of the game (in my opinion) and future development (RMT Dungeons) should be part of what the funding from the box sales is used for UNLESS they want to have enough content for a full fledged expansion which could be sold as such.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Hate to break this to you, but theres no difference between selling you one dungeon for $3, or selling you a pack of 10 dungeons with some other crap for $40.
The fact that you think buying an expansion is any different from buying any other kind of content for a game is pretty funny.
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
So basically, all I can think of dude is that your complaining that Anet is deciding not to charge you a monthly fee? Seriously thats what it boils down to, instead of charging a monthly fee on top of the in game items and DLC for you to buy and charging you for expansions they decided to remove the monthly fee and your ticked and sticking to your principles? Get a clue, Anets doing the same as every other pay to play MMO business model wise except that they aren't going to charge you the monthly fee on top.
The difference is that the content was developed as an expansion and not taken out of release or the expansions/patches to be purchased separately. I'm not saying that is what they are doing, but that's what it feels like to me. It feels like I'm being hustled. That may not be the case, but I still feel that way.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Ok, let me try to explain this to you in a different way. Here's the reason you aren't finding any support and why you will find yourself in an extremely small minority in regards to trying to jump on Anet for having the DLC stuff.
Anet isn't selling you a game piecemeal like F2P's do. You are going to get a full game from Anet. The stuff that will be DLC like will be extra's. It's like buying Dragon Age. You buy the game and you have the full game. They added in extra's later. This is the difference. This is why no one has a problem with Anet besides you and maybe a handful of others.
Anet isn't saying... "Ok here's the world, you can go here, here and there but thats it for free and you get these handful of classes and can play these 3 races. Now if you want to enjoy the full game you have to buy this, this and this and upgrade to premium. Then of course we have extra stuff for you to buy".
You get the full game with your purchase, you only have to pay for the extra little stuff if you want it but none of it will be required to play or enjoy the game.
If you want to stand up for your principles go have your little spat and rant over on the game forums of truly deserving games. There is a slew of pay to play MMO's that have the same type of shop your trying to attack Anet for using but they charge a monthly fee on top. There is a heap of free to play games for you to posture around and bash with your principles that don't give you a full game unless your willing to buy it piecemeal.
Hell go over to the EQ2, LotRO and DDO forums and give them what for if you want.
But here, your simply not going to find the support your looking for lol. Were not idiots and we know the deal we get with Anet, it's one of the best business models in the business. EvE and DFO are also some pretty nice business models.
The rest are far worse. Buy the game, buy the expansions, buy from the online store, and pay a monthly fee to boot. Or we get to suffer through the horrid free to play model which gives you the bare minimum and tells you well... if you want to enjoy the game your gonna have to pay and pay and pay and if you stop paying? Well we will cut off the content you paid for lol.
So get over it already. If you don't want to play, then fine. But your on the losing side of battle that was won 5ish years ago when they proved that not only does their business model work but that it was also very profitable AND it was widely accepted.
But continue ranting and raving if you wish, I just wish you saw the futility in it.
In any case, if you do wish to continue at least wait till Anet gives you some ammunition and by ammunition I mean something real not this whole "We may add stuff like that if thats what the player base wants" kind of crud.
Let me put it this way for you... I don't care what they charge for, money isn't an issue for me... What I care about is anet transitioning from a company that used to believe they could charge you for the box, and provide you with content updates without nickel and diming you, into a company that is more and more micro-transaction heavy as time goes on.
They try to say companies don't need subscription fees to operate anymore, yet what they are doing financially is trying to milk you for money in a slightly different way, which to me is no different.
If they could sell you the boxes and leave it at that as far as charges go, I would be impressed with them, but the fact that they still try to squeeze out money other ways and then try to play it off as strictly for our sake, is deceptive and tacky.
It's like buying Dragon Age. You buy the game and you have the full game. They added in extra's later.
It's like they already have that part of the game developed and decided to cut it out of release so they could charge you for it as extra. The DLC and RMT in GW2 is going to be the exact same. Sure, it's optional fluff, but it's things that were developed before the game was released, which should be included in the pricetag of the game (in my opinion) and future development (RMT Dungeons) should be part of what the funding from the box sales is used for UNLESS they want to have enough content for a full fledged expansion which could be sold as such.
Well it's a safe bet there will be full fledged expansions for GW2, thats almost a given it's part of their business model selling box copies that is. To make money with this kind of business model you have to make those boxed copies of the game good and over flowing with content. This is something Anet has proven to be aware of and what they focus on.
Yes, there will be some extra's you can buy. If it bothers you that they may be working on extra content at the same time they are working on the initial game I'm not sure what to tell you. In Dragon age I didn't mind the DLC, the game was good and I definitely got my monies worth out of it. Then I did the DLC stuff (Some anyways, the ones that were worth it to me like Shale oO) and played it again lol. I even bought the expansion.
Little things like that don't and won't bother me. If I want it I'll buy it and if I don't I won't. The thing is as long as you get your monies worth out of the initial purchase your set. From the looks of it, getting your monies worth out of the initial purchase doesn't look like there will be a problem with that.
With Anet banking largely on box sales again it's a safe bet we won't be feeling we didn't get enough for our money because if we do well... there goes the box sales they were counting on. The extra stuff will be just that, nothing but extra's.
Everytime you bought a non-online games before, you would have fun playing it. You could play it for months if you desire so. If the game sells expansions, DLCs or even a sequel of the game, you would then buy it, right? Î mean, you had fun playing the game and played it for months, than you heard about an expansion, some DLCs or a sequel and you buy them, whether you are bored or not. But if you like playing the game as it is now, nothing will change the fact that you can still play it.
Ex: I have PES 2010 for PS2, I don't have PS3 nor PES/FIFA 2011. I have a blast with it. I have friends that have PS3 and FIFA/PES 2011, but they still come to my home to play the "old" games and have a blast. Why? because it's fun. I wasn't forced to buy anything "better" to still have fun playing it. BUT if I got bored of the game, than I would buy another game or a "better" one. AND MOST OF IMPORTANT, I don't have to keep paying each month in order to play the game.
Well, if GW2 pulls of the fun gameplay, the deal is exactly the same isnt it? I have GW2 original and have a blast playing it. Some dungeons get out in DLC and 1 expansion gets out 6 months later. If I don't get bored playing it for 6 months, than I may not feel the need to buy DLC nor expansions. Well, if I get bored playing it, than I will buy what I think is the best. Most people buy singleplayer games and other games for the same price as probably GW2 will be, and finish them in 1-2 months, than they get bored and buy another one. If they don't get bored, they only buy another if they want to. The principle is the same. At least you don't need o pay monthly to be able to play it.
Everytime you bought a non-online games before, you would have fun playing it. You could play it for months if you desire so. If the game sells expansions, DLCs or even a sequel of the game, you would then buy it, right? Î mean, you had fun playing the game and played it for months, than you heard about an expansion, some DLCs or a sequel and you buy them, whether you are bored or not. But if you like playing the game as it is now, nothing will change the fact that you can still play it.
Ex: I have PES 2010 for PS2, I don't have PS3 nor PES/FIFA 2011. I have a blast with it. I have friends that have PS3 and FIFA/PES 2011, but they still come to my home to play the "old" games and have a blast. Why? because it's fun. I wasn't forced to buy anything "better" to still have fun playing it. BUT if I got bored of the game, than I would buy another game or a "better" one. AND MOST OF IMPORTANT, I don't have to keep paying each month in order to play the game.
Well, if GW2 pulls of the fun gameplay, the deal is exactly the same isnt it? I have GW2 original and have a blast playing it. Some dungeons get out in DLC and 1 expansion gets out 6 months later. If I don't get bored playing it for 6 months, than I may not feel the need to buy DLC nor expansions. Well, if I get bored playing it, than I will buy what I think is the best. Most people buy singleplayer games and other games for the same price as probably GW2 will be, and finish them in 1-2 months, than they get bored and buy another one. If they don't get bored, they only buy another if they want to. The principle is the same. At least you don't need o pay monthly to be able to play it.
This will be an MMORPG, which means people will be goaded into buying new content just to stay on a level playing field with everyone else.
Everytime you bought a non-online games before, you would have fun playing it. You could play it for months if you desire so. If the game sells expansions, DLCs or even a sequel of the game, you would then buy it, right? Î mean, you had fun playing the game and played it for months, than you heard about an expansion, some DLCs or a sequel and you buy them, whether you are bored or not. But if you like playing the game as it is now, nothing will change the fact that you can still play it.
Ex: I have PES 2010 for PS2, I don't have PS3 nor PES/FIFA 2011. I have a blast with it. I have friends that have PS3 and FIFA/PES 2011, but they still come to my home to play the "old" games and have a blast. Why? because it's fun. I wasn't forced to buy anything "better" to still have fun playing it. BUT if I got bored of the game, than I would buy another game or a "better" one. AND MOST OF IMPORTANT, I don't have to keep paying each month in order to play the game.
Well, if GW2 pulls of the fun gameplay, the deal is exactly the same isnt it? I have GW2 original and have a blast playing it. Some dungeons get out in DLC and 1 expansion gets out 6 months later. If I don't get bored playing it for 6 months, than I may not feel the need to buy DLC nor expansions. Well, if I get bored playing it, than I will buy what I think is the best. Most people buy singleplayer games and other games for the same price as probably GW2 will be, and finish them in 1-2 months, than they get bored and buy another one. If they don't get bored, they only buy another if they want to. The principle is the same. At least you don't need o pay monthly to be able to play it.
This will be an MMORPG, which means people will be goaded into buying new content just to stay on a level playing field with everyone else.
I'd say that would be a concern in a game where, for example, items = power, like WoW. If you could buy a higher tier of armor in the online store in WoW, that would goad people into buying it to stay on a level playing field. However, GW2 isn't going that route... you can craft gear as good stat-wise and end-game dungeon gear. Based on that paradigm for the game, I think your fears, while well-founded in history, may not actually apply here.
Everytime you bought a non-online games before, you would have fun playing it. You could play it for months if you desire so. If the game sells expansions, DLCs or even a sequel of the game, you would then buy it, right? Î mean, you had fun playing the game and played it for months, than you heard about an expansion, some DLCs or a sequel and you buy them, whether you are bored or not. But if you like playing the game as it is now, nothing will change the fact that you can still play it.
Ex: I have PES 2010 for PS2, I don't have PS3 nor PES/FIFA 2011. I have a blast with it. I have friends that have PS3 and FIFA/PES 2011, but they still come to my home to play the "old" games and have a blast. Why? because it's fun. I wasn't forced to buy anything "better" to still have fun playing it. BUT if I got bored of the game, than I would buy another game or a "better" one. AND MOST OF IMPORTANT, I don't have to keep paying each month in order to play the game.
Well, if GW2 pulls of the fun gameplay, the deal is exactly the same isnt it? I have GW2 original and have a blast playing it. Some dungeons get out in DLC and 1 expansion gets out 6 months later. If I don't get bored playing it for 6 months, than I may not feel the need to buy DLC nor expansions. Well, if I get bored playing it, than I will buy what I think is the best. Most people buy singleplayer games and other games for the same price as probably GW2 will be, and finish them in 1-2 months, than they get bored and buy another one. If they don't get bored, they only buy another if they want to. The principle is the same. At least you don't need o pay monthly to be able to play it.
This will be an MMORPG, which means people will be goaded into buying new content just to stay on a level playing field with everyone else.
I'd say that would be a concern in a game where, for example, items = power, like WoW. If you could buy a higher tier of armor in the online store in WoW, that would goad people into buying it to stay on a level playing field. However, GW2 isn't going that route... you can craft gear as good stat-wise and end-game dungeon gear. Based on that paradigm for the game, I think your fears, while well-founded in history, may not actually apply here.
Sorry but item stats are not the only thing that people are concerned about. Dress-up barbie is big in mmorpgs, various parts of the world that are added later, extra dungeons, etc...
It is a major drag to some people if they can't travel to certain parts with their friend because they didn't buy an expansion, or didn't purchase a certain dungeon in the store.
Also keep in mind that because GW2 is an MMORPG it probably will have legitimate expansions, no stand-alones.
Originally posted by RobertDinh Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by RobertDinh
Originally posted by Morcotulcon
Everytime you bought a non-online games before, you would have fun playing it. You could play it for months if you desire so. If the game sells expansions, DLCs or even a sequel of the game, you would then buy it, right?
This will be an MMORPG, which means people will be goaded into buying new content just to stay on a level playing field with everyone else.
I'd say that would be a concern in a game where, for example, items = power, like WoW. If you could buy a higher tier of armor in the online store in WoW, that would goad people into buying it to stay on a level playing field. However, GW2 isn't going that route... you can craft gear as good stat-wise and end-game dungeon gear. Based on that paradigm for the game, I think your fears, while well-founded in history, may not actually apply here.
Sorry but item stats are not the only thing that people are concerned about. Dress-up barbie is big in mmorpgs, various parts of the world that are added later, extra dungeons, etc...
It is a major drag to some people if they can't travel to certain parts with their friend because they didn't buy an expansion, or didn't purchase a certain dungeon in the store.
Also keep in mind that because GW2 is an MMORPG it probably will have legitimate expansions, no stand-alones.
Right now you can buy "dress up" costumes in the store. The world of GW1 is going along quite fine.
I do like the new Halloween constumes, but won't be buying one out of choice (Not so much into dress-up).
Everytime you bought a non-online games before, you would have fun playing it. You could play it for months if you desire so. If the game sells expansions, DLCs or even a sequel of the game, you would then buy it, right? Î mean, you had fun playing the game and played it for months, than you heard about an expansion, some DLCs or a sequel and you buy them, whether you are bored or not. But if you like playing the game as it is now, nothing will change the fact that you can still play it.
Ex: I have PES 2010 for PS2, I don't have PS3 nor PES/FIFA 2011. I have a blast with it. I have friends that have PS3 and FIFA/PES 2011, but they still come to my home to play the "old" games and have a blast. Why? because it's fun. I wasn't forced to buy anything "better" to still have fun playing it. BUT if I got bored of the game, than I would buy another game or a "better" one. AND MOST OF IMPORTANT, I don't have to keep paying each month in order to play the game.
Well, if GW2 pulls of the fun gameplay, the deal is exactly the same isnt it? I have GW2 original and have a blast playing it. Some dungeons get out in DLC and 1 expansion gets out 6 months later. If I don't get bored playing it for 6 months, than I may not feel the need to buy DLC nor expansions. Well, if I get bored playing it, than I will buy what I think is the best. Most people buy singleplayer games and other games for the same price as probably GW2 will be, and finish them in 1-2 months, than they get bored and buy another one. If they don't get bored, they only buy another if they want to. The principle is the same. At least you don't need o pay monthly to be able to play it.
This will be an MMORPG, which means people will be goaded into buying new content just to stay on a level playing field with everyone else.
I'd say that would be a concern in a game where, for example, items = power, like WoW. If you could buy a higher tier of armor in the online store in WoW, that would goad people into buying it to stay on a level playing field. However, GW2 isn't going that route... you can craft gear as good stat-wise and end-game dungeon gear. Based on that paradigm for the game, I think your fears, while well-founded in history, may not actually apply here.
Sorry but item stats are not the only thing that people are concerned about. Dress-up barbie is big in mmorpgs, various parts of the world that are added later, extra dungeons, etc...
It is a major drag to some people if they can't travel to certain parts with their friend because they didn't buy an expansion, or didn't purchase a certain dungeon in the store.
Also keep in mind that because GW2 is an MMORPG it probably will have legitimate expansions, no stand-alones.
It's absolutely no different to how it is now with GW, if you didn't buy further chapters or the expansion you aren't going to be able to join your friends who have, that's the way the business model works, millions accepted that and get on with GW just fine.
Eq1 did it and I hated it back then. SOE were smart enough to put important stuff into that mini expansion so eventually everyone had to buy it anyway.
Eq2 did it and I was reluctant to get, but my guild required it so I was kindda forced to buy.
I strongly dislike this approach because it is only optional in theory - If you want to play the game for real you have to buy these mini expansions. I know companies make games to earn money, but stuff like item shops and miniexpansions just makes it too obvious since you dont really have a choice. A MMO is to most a long term commitment, and for that to work players need to trust the company that makes it - Constantly having their hands in your wallet while you dont have any choice but to pay is not helping.
I am trying to think positively about it but I can't find anything good to say.
Well it all sounds a little sketchy to me,but i did mention in a previous post,that there is no way you are going to get a quality game with no subscription.EVERY single quality game takes a few years of subs to break even,so how can this game make a profit with no sub?Answer is impossible,unless the game is a low cost budget to develop,this means cutting corners.
Now GW2 claims they are going to be creating an even better game than GW1,and no sub?Something seems rather obvious here,a low budget game or they are going after cash shop sales.They can talk about creating someting people WANT to buy,well it is a no brainer,create the best in game items and of course people want them,that would be quite a lame idea if they go this route.Imo if they try to pull off anything sketchy at all,it will spell the end of A-Net and send a perminent signal to all that they should not be trusted,much the same as their parent company NCSOFT.
To be fair here to both developer and user,i think we need to wait a bit longer .i just hope people don't go out and pre order making it easy for the developer to rip people off.On a side note,i would watch carefully to how their game is going to run,i mean watch for torrent type gaming,where the developer is using the users bandwidth.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think the PC Gamer article has made this more sensational than it should have been. I just found this quote on GW2Guru
Hey there, after reading the PC Gamer article I wanted to make sure that we clarified a few things. First, we haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post release. My answer to the dungeons question was meant to say “we’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in.” If after release you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say) that we’ll release details on it when they are available and that our core philosophy--of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store--still stands.
- Regina (ArenaNet representative)
Well friends, take a decision so I can decide whether I want to invest money but most importantly time in this game.
I have been tricked in mmo's before and Im not doing it again.
Well it all sounds a little sketchy to me,but i did mention in a previous post,that there is no way you are going to get a quality game with no subscription.EVERY single quality game takes a few years of subs to break even,so how can this game make a profit with no sub?Answer is impossible,unless the game is a low cost budget to develop,this means cutting corners.
Now GW2 claims they are going to be creating an even better game than GW1,and no sub?Something seems rather obvious here,a low budget game or they are going after cash shop sales.They can talk about creating someting people WANT to buy,well it is a no brainer,create the best in game items and of course people want them,that would be quite a lame idea if they go this route.Imo if they try to pull off anything sketchy at all,it will spell the end of A-Net and send a perminent signal to all that they should not be trusted,much the same as their parent company NCSOFT.
To be fair here to both developer and user,i think we need to wait a bit longer .i just hope people don't go out and pre order making it easy for the developer to rip people off.On a side note,i would watch carefully to how their game is going to run,i mean watch for torrent type gaming,where the developer is using the users bandwidth.
Every game needs a few years of subs to break even? You my friend, have been fooloed by this genre too far. That's is not even remotely close to a correct statement.
I guess you have never really looked into costs of games and server upholdings? You probably think a good game requires millions of players paying $15 a month to survive huh...
Games can break even early. Sometimes even within release week. However, it is true, that servers cost money, but it doesn't require a few years of a million subs to make it up. Not even close.
Maybe you didn't notice that even games with subs have a cash shop. We call it a rip off. We call it getting our money taken. ArenaNet won't be filthy rich, but they won't be broke either.
Well it all sounds a little sketchy to me,but i did mention in a previous post,that there is no way you are going to get a quality game with no subscription.EVERY single quality game takes a few years of subs to break even,so how can this game make a profit with no sub?Answer is impossible,unless the game is a low cost budget to develop,this means cutting corners.
Now GW2 claims they are going to be creating an even better game than GW1,and no sub?Something seems rather obvious here,a low budget game or they are going after cash shop sales.They can talk about creating someting people WANT to buy,well it is a no brainer,create the best in game items and of course people want them,that would be quite a lame idea if they go this route.Imo if they try to pull off anything sketchy at all,it will spell the end of A-Net and send a perminent signal to all that they should not be trusted,much the same as their parent company NCSOFT.
To be fair here to both developer and user,i think we need to wait a bit longer .i just hope people don't go out and pre order making it easy for the developer to rip people off.On a side note,i would watch carefully to how their game is going to run,i mean watch for torrent type gaming,where the developer is using the users bandwidth.
Every game needs a few years of subs to break even? You my friend, have been fooloed by this genre too far. That's is not even remotely close to a correct statement.
I guess you have never really looked into costs of games and server upholdings? You probably think a good game requires millions of players paying $15 a month to survive huh...
Games can break even early. Sometimes even within release week. However, it is true, that servers cost money, but it doesn't require a few years of a million subs to make it up. Not even close.
Maybe you didn't notice that even games with subs have a cash shop. We call it a rip off. We call it getting our money taken. ArenaNet won't be filthy rich, but they won't be broke either.
Totally agree with your reply. One thing though, I think that ArenaNet has more money than most of the P2P and F2P MMORPG's. I mean, ArenaNet' their cashshop won't change that much from GW1, and they sold ALOT of copies (GW1). Gamers appreciate the way they handle their game and the onces playing it. I hope it's going to make them filthy rich for GW2.
Everytime you bought a non-online games before, you would have fun playing it. You could play it for months if you desire so. If the game sells expansions, DLCs or even a sequel of the game, you would then buy it, right? Î mean, you had fun playing the game and played it for months, than you heard about an expansion, some DLCs or a sequel and you buy them, whether you are bored or not. But if you like playing the game as it is now, nothing will change the fact that you can still play it.
Ex: I have PES 2010 for PS2, I don't have PS3 nor PES/FIFA 2011. I have a blast with it. I have friends that have PS3 and FIFA/PES 2011, but they still come to my home to play the "old" games and have a blast. Why? because it's fun. I wasn't forced to buy anything "better" to still have fun playing it. BUT if I got bored of the game, than I would buy another game or a "better" one. AND MOST OF IMPORTANT, I don't have to keep paying each month in order to play the game.
Well, if GW2 pulls of the fun gameplay, the deal is exactly the same isnt it? I have GW2 original and have a blast playing it. Some dungeons get out in DLC and 1 expansion gets out 6 months later. If I don't get bored playing it for 6 months, than I may not feel the need to buy DLC nor expansions. Well, if I get bored playing it, than I will buy what I think is the best. Most people buy singleplayer games and other games for the same price as probably GW2 will be, and finish them in 1-2 months, than they get bored and buy another one. If they don't get bored, they only buy another if they want to. The principle is the same. At least you don't need o pay monthly to be able to play it.
This will be an MMORPG, which means people will be goaded into buying new content just to stay on a level playing field with everyone else.
I'd say that would be a concern in a game where, for example, items = power, like WoW. If you could buy a higher tier of armor in the online store in WoW, that would goad people into buying it to stay on a level playing field. However, GW2 isn't going that route... you can craft gear as good stat-wise and end-game dungeon gear. Based on that paradigm for the game, I think your fears, while well-founded in history, may not actually apply here.
Sorry but item stats are not the only thing that people are concerned about. Dress-up barbie is big in mmorpgs, various parts of the world that are added later, extra dungeons, etc...
It is a major drag to some people if they can't travel to certain parts with their friend because they didn't buy an expansion, or didn't purchase a certain dungeon in the store.
Also keep in mind that because GW2 is an MMORPG it probably will have legitimate expansions, no stand-alones.
It's absolutely no different to how it is now with GW, if you didn't buy further chapters or the expansion you aren't going to be able to join your friends who have, that's the way the business model works, millions accepted that and get on with GW just fine.
It's like buying Dragon Age. You buy the game and you have the full game. They added in extra's later.
It's like they already have that part of the game developed and decided to cut it out of release so they could charge you for it as extra. The DLC and RMT in GW2 will likely be the same. Sure, it's optional fluff, but it's things that were developed before the game was released, which should be included in the pricetag of the game (in my opinion) and future development (RMT Dungeons) should be part of what the funding from the box sales is used for UNLESS they want to have enough content for a full fledged expansion which could be sold as such.
It's funny you mention this, I was reading in Maximum PC Magazine about this very issue on how this is becoming the new trend in video games, they create the full game but leave several parts of the game locked out, then after a couple months of the game being out they sell you the DLC (which is already on your Hard Drive) for extra money. The Content is already there but there going to charge you to unlock it.
If DLC wasn't a huge money maker Developers wouldn't be turning to it, now it seems all MMO's are following this model because most of the player base rather be blind to this and just give them there credit card number for extra content that is usually weak compared to the main game, but they will add something in it that will require people to buy it or make people feel left out if they don't buy it, such as extra Dungeons, Seriously if your friends buy it, then you have no choice but to buy it also or be left out.
I know in Aion (another NCSOFT Game) they only give you a few dye's for your armor, for the cool dyes you have to buy them in the Aion Cash Shop, so for those saying "Just wait and see", don't be surprised if you can't get white or black dye for your armor unless you purchase it from NCSoft Cash Store. And you will have nobody to blame but yourself because you wanted to sit back and do nothing due to your fanboism.
Those of us complaining are trying to stop a trend from developing where we WILL be nickled and dimed way more then the cost of a $15 month fee.
In the old days if you wanted to change your look they would just put a profession in game that allowed other players to do that (IE: Star Wars Galaxies), but not anymore now they want $10-$15 for you to change the look of your toon.
Another Example of DLC, Fallout 3, out of the 5-6 DLC's that have came out only 1 was decent, the others have been terrible and basically just rip you off. Most DLC's are just a quick way for Developers to make money with sub-par content and they usually only provide 3-4 hours of game play.
Comments
And yet here we all are, waiting not for Guild Wars 1 but for Guild Wars 2. A game that should keep me occupied for 100s of hours. A game where the developers clearly state "there will be no monthly fees" and you know what... THERE WON'T BE ANY. So if you're gonna continue to throw a hissy fit over a bit of optional content for a game that doesn't even have a release date yet, then why wait for game to begin with? Why agonize over this pointless DLC nonesense, when you haven't even touched the game 1st?
No one here is agonizing, and any fees they could think to try and nickel and dime outta me would not be significant to me, just merely pointing out that they have sold out on their old philosophies to try and turn larger profit margins.
I have no problem with it from a financial standpoint, it's just that if a company sells out on one of their original core philosophies who knows what is next, it's happened to many gaming companies as they have gotten more and more popular.
You are right. He can't because he doesn't play Guild Wars and never have. Even if you ask him to provide evidence that he had, Robert would just make excuses. I bet he just watched videos of Guild Wars and base his views on them trying to make himself sound valid. Robert is just a conventional MMORPG "fanboi" who'll use every opportunity to negatively criticize Arena Net and their games. I'm all for criticism, but Robert's claims are just getting ridiculous.
You know what at this point everyone should just ignore Robert from now on. He's posting baseless claims and continuing pointless arguments only to rile people up. Hmm Derek Smart 2.0? Robert just go back to whatever game you came from and feel free to bash Arena Net and their games over there if you want. Also if you are going to play Guild Wars 2, please post your ign so I won't end up playing with you.
I really hate Micro Transaction Shops, ruins the game IMO. I prefer the older model of the first Guild Wars. Release the main game and then every year release an expansion for $19.99
I know why they want the DLC, they will make a lot more money, odds our they will probably charge us $9.99 for each new DLC and probably release a dozen or so of them a year. My issue will be how much content do we get in each DLC, if its only like 4-5 hours worth of content then I have a real issue with that.
I've always posted in the past that its just a matter of time before the game box comes with a credit card slider, every time you want to go into a dungeon you will have to swipe your credit card for a $5 charge. This is where it's all going sad to say. But as long as people keep dumping money in there laps for Micro Transactions there going to keep doing it, to the point that everything in the game will be a micro-transaction.
All I know is if we pay $50 for the main game and say $10 for each DLC, the DLC better be a min. of 1/5th the size of the main game. The norm for DLC's are usually like 1/8th the size if not smaller = few hours of content.
If this is the case, then I would prefer a $15 month fee. His statement that a monthly fee makes programmers lazy is wrong, if programmers get lazy, players will simply quit there game. He's just trying to justify nickel and diming the customers to death.
Could we maybe wait till we actually see what's out and what it costs before we start screaming about being nickle and dimed to death?
Please?
The hyperbole of some of these posts is insane.
My thoughts exactly. The game doesn't even have a release date and yet people bitchin' about how ANet's forcibly taking all of our money. Just funny that people assume they'll HAVE to buy whatever ANet plans to put on the Item shop, no matter how superficial it is. Personally I wouldn't mind buying a dungeon pack or two, because playing the same old endgame dungeons would eventually get boring and I may lose interest whilst I wait for annual/bi-annual expansions.
But this is all hypothetical, since like I said before... the game doesn't even have a release date yet. I blame ANet threads like these, because right now people (like me) are scavenging for any scrap of new info an whatever new info we get will eventually get warped into an endless spiral of speculation. If we only had a date for the Beta... that would easily put an end to this thread. ^_^
@ RobertDinh
Ok, let me try to explain this to you in a different way. Here's the reason you aren't finding any support and why you will find yourself in an extremely small minority in regards to trying to jump on Anet for having the DLC stuff.
Anet isn't selling you a game piecemeal like F2P's do. You are going to get a full game from Anet. The stuff that will be DLC like will be extra's. It's like buying Dragon Age. You buy the game and you have the full game. They added in extra's later. This is the difference. This is why no one has a problem with Anet besides you and maybe a handful of others.
Anet isn't saying... "Ok here's the world, you can go here, here and there but thats it for free and you get these handful of classes and can play these 3 races. Now if you want to enjoy the full game you have to buy this, this and this and upgrade to premium. Then of course we have extra stuff for you to buy".
You get the full game with your purchase, you only have to pay for the extra little stuff if you want it but none of it will be required to play or enjoy the game.
If you want to stand up for your principles go have your little spat and rant over on the game forums of truly deserving games. There is a slew of pay to play MMO's that have the same type of shop your trying to attack Anet for using but they charge a monthly fee on top. There is a heap of free to play games for you to posture around and bash with your principles that don't give you a full game unless your willing to buy it piecemeal.
Hell go over to the EQ2, LotRO and DDO forums and give them what for if you want.
But here, your simply not going to find the support your looking for lol. Were not idiots and we know the deal we get with Anet, it's one of the best business models in the business. EvE and DFO are also some pretty nice business models.
The rest are far worse. Buy the game, buy the expansions, buy from the online store, and pay a monthly fee to boot. Or we get to suffer through the horrid free to play model which gives you the bare minimum and tells you well... if you want to enjoy the game your gonna have to pay and pay and pay and if you stop paying? Well we will cut off the content you paid for lol.
So get over it already. If you don't want to play, then fine. But your on the losing side of battle that was won 5ish years ago when they proved that not only does their business model work but that it was also very profitable AND it was widely accepted.
But continue ranting and raving if you wish, I just wish you saw the futility in it.
In any case, if you do wish to continue at least wait till Anet gives you some ammunition and by ammunition I mean something real not this whole "We may add stuff like that if thats what the player base wants" kind of crud.
It's like they already have that part of the game developed and decided to cut it out of release so they could charge you for it as extra. The DLC and RMT in GW2 will likely be the same. Sure, it's optional fluff, but it's things that were developed before the game was released, which should be included in the pricetag of the game (in my opinion) and future development (RMT Dungeons) should be part of what the funding from the box sales is used for UNLESS they want to have enough content for a full fledged expansion which could be sold as such.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Originally posted by warmaster670
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
The difference is that the content was developed as an expansion and not taken out of release or the expansions/patches to be purchased separately. I'm not saying that is what they are doing, but that's what it feels like to me. It feels like I'm being hustled. That may not be the case, but I still feel that way.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Let me put it this way for you... I don't care what they charge for, money isn't an issue for me... What I care about is anet transitioning from a company that used to believe they could charge you for the box, and provide you with content updates without nickel and diming you, into a company that is more and more micro-transaction heavy as time goes on.
They try to say companies don't need subscription fees to operate anymore, yet what they are doing financially is trying to milk you for money in a slightly different way, which to me is no different.
If they could sell you the boxes and leave it at that as far as charges go, I would be impressed with them, but the fact that they still try to squeeze out money other ways and then try to play it off as strictly for our sake, is deceptive and tacky.
Well it's a safe bet there will be full fledged expansions for GW2, thats almost a given it's part of their business model selling box copies that is. To make money with this kind of business model you have to make those boxed copies of the game good and over flowing with content. This is something Anet has proven to be aware of and what they focus on.
Yes, there will be some extra's you can buy. If it bothers you that they may be working on extra content at the same time they are working on the initial game I'm not sure what to tell you. In Dragon age I didn't mind the DLC, the game was good and I definitely got my monies worth out of it. Then I did the DLC stuff (Some anyways, the ones that were worth it to me like Shale oO) and played it again lol. I even bought the expansion.
Little things like that don't and won't bother me. If I want it I'll buy it and if I don't I won't. The thing is as long as you get your monies worth out of the initial purchase your set. From the looks of it, getting your monies worth out of the initial purchase doesn't look like there will be a problem with that.
With Anet banking largely on box sales again it's a safe bet we won't be feeling we didn't get enough for our money because if we do well... there goes the box sales they were counting on. The extra stuff will be just that, nothing but extra's.
Everytime you bought a non-online games before, you would have fun playing it. You could play it for months if you desire so. If the game sells expansions, DLCs or even a sequel of the game, you would then buy it, right? Î mean, you had fun playing the game and played it for months, than you heard about an expansion, some DLCs or a sequel and you buy them, whether you are bored or not. But if you like playing the game as it is now, nothing will change the fact that you can still play it.
Ex: I have PES 2010 for PS2, I don't have PS3 nor PES/FIFA 2011. I have a blast with it. I have friends that have PS3 and FIFA/PES 2011, but they still come to my home to play the "old" games and have a blast. Why? because it's fun. I wasn't forced to buy anything "better" to still have fun playing it. BUT if I got bored of the game, than I would buy another game or a "better" one. AND MOST OF IMPORTANT, I don't have to keep paying each month in order to play the game.
Well, if GW2 pulls of the fun gameplay, the deal is exactly the same isnt it? I have GW2 original and have a blast playing it. Some dungeons get out in DLC and 1 expansion gets out 6 months later. If I don't get bored playing it for 6 months, than I may not feel the need to buy DLC nor expansions. Well, if I get bored playing it, than I will buy what I think is the best. Most people buy singleplayer games and other games for the same price as probably GW2 will be, and finish them in 1-2 months, than they get bored and buy another one. If they don't get bored, they only buy another if they want to. The principle is the same. At least you don't need o pay monthly to be able to play it.
This will be an MMORPG, which means people will be goaded into buying new content just to stay on a level playing field with everyone else.
I'd say that would be a concern in a game where, for example, items = power, like WoW. If you could buy a higher tier of armor in the online store in WoW, that would goad people into buying it to stay on a level playing field. However, GW2 isn't going that route... you can craft gear as good stat-wise and end-game dungeon gear. Based on that paradigm for the game, I think your fears, while well-founded in history, may not actually apply here.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Sorry but item stats are not the only thing that people are concerned about. Dress-up barbie is big in mmorpgs, various parts of the world that are added later, extra dungeons, etc...
It is a major drag to some people if they can't travel to certain parts with their friend because they didn't buy an expansion, or didn't purchase a certain dungeon in the store.
Also keep in mind that because GW2 is an MMORPG it probably will have legitimate expansions, no stand-alones.
Right now you can buy "dress up" costumes in the store. The world of GW1 is going along quite fine.
I do like the new Halloween constumes, but won't be buying one out of choice (Not so much into dress-up).
Oderint, dum metuant.
GW1 was not an mmorpg.
Eq1 did it and I hated it back then. SOE were smart enough to put important stuff into that mini expansion so eventually everyone had to buy it anyway.
Eq2 did it and I was reluctant to get, but my guild required it so I was kindda forced to buy.
I strongly dislike this approach because it is only optional in theory - If you want to play the game for real you have to buy these mini expansions. I know companies make games to earn money, but stuff like item shops and miniexpansions just makes it too obvious since you dont really have a choice. A MMO is to most a long term commitment, and for that to work players need to trust the company that makes it - Constantly having their hands in your wallet while you dont have any choice but to pay is not helping.
I am trying to think positively about it but I can't find anything good to say.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Well it all sounds a little sketchy to me,but i did mention in a previous post,that there is no way you are going to get a quality game with no subscription.EVERY single quality game takes a few years of subs to break even,so how can this game make a profit with no sub?Answer is impossible,unless the game is a low cost budget to develop,this means cutting corners.
Now GW2 claims they are going to be creating an even better game than GW1,and no sub?Something seems rather obvious here,a low budget game or they are going after cash shop sales.They can talk about creating someting people WANT to buy,well it is a no brainer,create the best in game items and of course people want them,that would be quite a lame idea if they go this route.Imo if they try to pull off anything sketchy at all,it will spell the end of A-Net and send a perminent signal to all that they should not be trusted,much the same as their parent company NCSOFT.
To be fair here to both developer and user,i think we need to wait a bit longer .i just hope people don't go out and pre order making it easy for the developer to rip people off.On a side note,i would watch carefully to how their game is going to run,i mean watch for torrent type gaming,where the developer is using the users bandwidth.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well friends, take a decision so I can decide whether I want to invest money but most importantly time in this game.
I have been tricked in mmo's before and Im not doing it again.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Every game needs a few years of subs to break even? You my friend, have been fooloed by this genre too far. That's is not even remotely close to a correct statement.
I guess you have never really looked into costs of games and server upholdings? You probably think a good game requires millions of players paying $15 a month to survive huh...
Games can break even early. Sometimes even within release week. However, it is true, that servers cost money, but it doesn't require a few years of a million subs to make it up. Not even close.
Maybe you didn't notice that even games with subs have a cash shop. We call it a rip off. We call it getting our money taken. ArenaNet won't be filthy rich, but they won't be broke either.
Totally agree with your reply. One thing though, I think that ArenaNet has more money than most of the P2P and F2P MMORPG's. I mean, ArenaNet' their cashshop won't change that much from GW1, and they sold ALOT of copies (GW1). Gamers appreciate the way they handle their game and the onces playing it. I hope it's going to make them filthy rich for GW2.
Guild Wars is obviously an MMORPG.
Guild Wars is Massive
Guild Wars is Multi-player
Guild Wars is Online
Guild Wars is a Role Playing Game
It's funny you mention this, I was reading in Maximum PC Magazine about this very issue on how this is becoming the new trend in video games, they create the full game but leave several parts of the game locked out, then after a couple months of the game being out they sell you the DLC (which is already on your Hard Drive) for extra money. The Content is already there but there going to charge you to unlock it.
If DLC wasn't a huge money maker Developers wouldn't be turning to it, now it seems all MMO's are following this model because most of the player base rather be blind to this and just give them there credit card number for extra content that is usually weak compared to the main game, but they will add something in it that will require people to buy it or make people feel left out if they don't buy it, such as extra Dungeons, Seriously if your friends buy it, then you have no choice but to buy it also or be left out.
I know in Aion (another NCSOFT Game) they only give you a few dye's for your armor, for the cool dyes you have to buy them in the Aion Cash Shop, so for those saying "Just wait and see", don't be surprised if you can't get white or black dye for your armor unless you purchase it from NCSoft Cash Store. And you will have nobody to blame but yourself because you wanted to sit back and do nothing due to your fanboism.
Those of us complaining are trying to stop a trend from developing where we WILL be nickled and dimed way more then the cost of a $15 month fee.
In the old days if you wanted to change your look they would just put a profession in game that allowed other players to do that (IE: Star Wars Galaxies), but not anymore now they want $10-$15 for you to change the look of your toon.
Another Example of DLC, Fallout 3, out of the 5-6 DLC's that have came out only 1 was decent, the others have been terrible and basically just rip you off. Most DLC's are just a quick way for Developers to make money with sub-par content and they usually only provide 3-4 hours of game play.
In Most cases DLC = Ripoff