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(Required Viewing) Fatigue System is Awesome!
Hrayr2148
Member Posts: 649
FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System
[Mod Edit]
Comments
Best explanation of the Fatigue system I've seen so far.
So....
You grind until the game tells you to stop?
Then you grind some more?
This system dose not seem revolutionary in any way shape or form.
I got an amazing idea lets make it so people stop getting exp at a certain point and force them to do somthing else becuase we have to make sure everyone is equal.
Or lets make it so we can dictate the amount of time it takes to level up so we have time to fill our game with content while they pay us.
edit: I'm not done ranting, this is retarded I didn't even know such a system existed in this game. Why would you ever make it so the player cannot level their main class in a game where the main goal is to LEVEL. WTF I loved ffxi, and I have been keeping my eye on this game even though I didn't like it so far. but this is STUPID WTF they truly have no idea what made their first game good in the first place my god how did they screw shit up this bad.
edit 2: So if I set aside a day with my friends to go and level I will in half a day or so not be able to get anymore exp? And not just for the day for a whole fucking week? WTF. And why? because other people are not leveling as fast as me? WHY DO I CARE HOW FAST SOMEONE ELSE CAN LEVEL. it's a pve game who gives a damn if some random person levels up crazy fast. There are only two reasons I see for this system, 1 they want to squeeze as much money out of you they can, 2 they havn't finished their game. WTF.
O and if I figure out a way to exp really fast then thats just stopping me from playing even sooner, why do I want to play a game which will be like o sorry you can't level your main class anymore this week. O don't worry it's not like this game isn't about leveling or anything, how about you go outside and never come back to this game the whole week or play another game or just unsub because you can't play this game when you want to.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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How is this any different then reaching level 50 on your Warrior in FFXI and your Thf or Nin was only lvl 10, you had to go back and lvl the subclasses or else you would not be invited to groups.
This is a great system because in FFXIV you're not defined by one class, your defined by one character, which is a combination of classes. You don't like the fact that the game is designed for casuals and hardcore people? You don't like having people to constantly party with?
There is nothing stopping your from horizontally making which ever class you choose, better, by also leveling other classes. Taking Marauder to max level without getting a single skill form other classes is gimping yourself. I guarantee you that SE is designing the content to be as hard as FFXI, so to stand any chance, you better be balanced. This system just provides an incentive to try out other classes.
This isn't like the US constitution where you have an inalienable right to "Level up the class I want without any restrictions." I, for one, LOVE LOVE this system. The video just shows why it's designed the way it is. It seems to me your issue is with the "idea" of restricting leveling not necessarily that the system is bad, per se.
Well, if you think your MMO rights are being violated, then just move on to something that allows you to reach end game in 2 weeks (maybe WoW).
I must say after seeing this video , i really like the system now. I think it will keep many players closer to level but it will still unbalance the system. people that can play longer will have much stronger toons in the lower levels so groups will look for these people then some one just that level..
because im not a nub and I level my sub jobs first.
Hey guess what, If I take out this system guess what happens to horizontal progression... come on guess
ABOSLUTLY NOTHING! thats right you can still level your other classes, OMG wait so your saying that if I was leveling my main job and realize I needed a skill from another job I could still go level that other job without this system in place!!!!!!!!!!
Holy shit thats amazing why do we need this system again? o wait we don't it's retarded.
edit: I just remmebered I know a good way to provide and incentive to try out other classes, MAKE THEM FUN!
O wait one sec you said incentive to try out other classes that isn't this system at all this is forcing them to try out other classes you don't need fun for that my bad.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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This is kinda what I was thinking as that was how it sounds on the surface, but after playing quite a bit it is really a non-factor.
A strong character in FFXIV is one that is more horizontaly built versus vertically built. For example, a hard-core player (elite, powergamer, whatever you want to call them) is going to want to cross classes for certain abilities to make their character strong. My gladiator is a lot better of a character with second-wind (self heal ability) from the pugilist ability list.
If I were to think vertically and just go for bust up to top level then I would be severely gimped and pretty much useless. From previous MMOs we are accustomed to higher level = more powerfull, but SE does it different. If you can objectively think about it its a pretty cool system.
With that being said I've played quite a bit and never reached the fatigue threshold and I'm just pulling skills out of 3 classes so far. A person more hardcore then myself would be probably pulling skills off of more. His physical level might be lower or equal to mine but if it were pvp he'd probably woop up on me.
The hardest part is to break yourself of thinking that higher level = better character.
Palazious <The Vindicators> Darkfall
Palazious r40, rr45 SW War
Palazious 50 Pirate PoTBS
Palazious 35 Sorcerer Vanguard
Palazious 75 wizard EQ
Paladori 50 Champion LOTRO
Poppa Reaver bugged at rank15
Really so what your saying is that SE has to put in this system because people are too dumb to realize they need skills from other classes. My bad again I forgot I was a fucking idoit thanks SE for the reminder.
Or wait a sec are you saying that you will never really hit this exp cap? so the system has no reason to be in the game because no one wil ever hit the exp cap per week?
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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this is one of the best links i have ever seen. awesome find!
if you still find yourself upset at the idea of the fatigue system after watching this video, or dont understand it, please stay away from the game. no need to make more post's about how bad an idea it is. i wasnt to thrilled about the system at first myself, but after that explanation i find it an incredible idea. it rewards those who put in more hours, but doesnt penalize those who dont.
Invariably, in any game that is released, hardcore people race to "end game" and then complain that there's no content.
If they didn't have the fatigue system, you would have the population to spread out in terms of casuals, semi-casuals, and hardcore. This allows everyone to be around the same level so that there's always people around for the content available. Hardcores arnt' being held back, if they choose to play 15 hours a day, their chosen class, though same class rank/physical as a casual will be 10 times more effective because of the other classes leveled.
You even said you were going to end up leveling your subs first. In stead of taking your subs to rank 30 all in one go, you just have to alternate.... that's GAME BREAKING for you?
come on, this is like making a mountain out of a mole hill. If not being able to play one class 24/7 is an issue, then FFXIV is not the game for you. I really like this system so to each his own.
Absolutely not. What I'm saying is that if your a half-way decent player with any understanding of the game then fatigue is a non-factor. Only a noob might run into fatigue as an actual problem.
Palazious <The Vindicators> Darkfall
Palazious r40, rr45 SW War
Palazious 50 Pirate PoTBS
Palazious 35 Sorcerer Vanguard
Palazious 75 wizard EQ
Paladori 50 Champion LOTRO
Poppa Reaver bugged at rank15
wait so it's now a penalty to me if someone else levels faster than me? So I have no reason to play this game after release because I will be super behind everyone? O wait this is a pve game lol i forgot it dosn't matter if someone else levels faster than me.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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Ah so fatigue is a non-factor? why is it there?
hey! what happens when I level like 3 jobs that synergise really well then I want to add a 4th one on to that after those are maxed that also synergizes really well. Is it a non-factor then?
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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Wow this is terrible, your saying because this system will not effect me at all it's awesome! thats like saying o that guy killing people over there won't kill me so thats AWESOME!
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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Did you even run into the fatigue system while playing? I certainly didn't. It's evident that you just don't like the idea of capping XP, PERIOD. Like i said before, it's not a god given right. Games have rules, this happens to be one of them. I personally think the advantages of this system in the GRAND SCHEME of things, is far better than limiting the manner in which a small percentage of players play.
Not only do you have to be a hardcore player, but one that plays 15 hours a day using only one class. Just because that's what other games are designed to do, does not mean that all other mmo's should allow it. This is the only great compromise i've seen when it comes to hardcore vs. casual. Truely ingenious if you ask me.
Fatigue is probably there to keep a noob from crying all over the forums when his level 50 character gets its arse wooped by a level 40 mob.
Palazious <The Vindicators> Darkfall
Palazious r40, rr45 SW War
Palazious 50 Pirate PoTBS
Palazious 35 Sorcerer Vanguard
Palazious 75 wizard EQ
Paladori 50 Champion LOTRO
Poppa Reaver bugged at rank15
Last post
There is no reason this should be in the game. It does not add anything to FFXIV it only takes away from the game and that is why I do not like it.
I sorry that you cannot see how it will effect you because you have to keep trying to "fight the trolls" (there are alot and most of them are retarded)
Just because it renforces a concept in the game dosn't mean it's good.
Edit: One last edit before I go.
The casual player, anyone thought of him here? say he keeps leveling at the same rate with the hardcore player but only with his main job. Then what? he is the gimp guy that no one will do anything with. Unless he does what? o thats right spend as much time as the hardcore guy and thus the system does what? FUCKING NOTHING IT'S FUCKING WORTHLESS PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF SE's ASS.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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I really wouldnt even bother trying to argue with this jezvin whoever he is. Every comment in this thread makes it obvious he isnt even playing this game in the beta at all. Ever assumption he is making is false the way it works in actual game play. He doesn't even know how the skills system works from multiple classes into one. All wrong, entire argument is all wrong, fromt he ground up. He really needs to spend less time here causing a scene and more time playing and learning it instead. Synergize, hahahaha seriously has no clue how this game works at all.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Jezvin, I get your point. you hate the idea of the restriction rather than the restriction itself.
If I may bring an analogy.... SE is forcing you to eat vegitables. You want to eat Pizza all day and everyday. Though you know veggies are good for you, you don't like being forced to eat them. You're right to eat pizza every day and all day is more important than being forced into something that's good for you.
I would join with you in the "SE is a tyranical dictator chant" if this wasn't a game that you literally buy into. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. It's like SE is opening a camp where they say, "In our camp, you have to eat veggies and pizza, and balance out your diet. If you don't want to eat veggies, then maybe this camp isn't for you." your argument is, "NO! I want to join your camp, I want to eat Pizza all day, and your camp is horrible if you don't let me eat pizza the whole day."
I'm sticking with SE on this one.
red is my response
I'm pretty much neutral at this point on the fatigue system, but I will say I think you missed his point, albeit a decent analogy.
He's not saying he wants to eat pizza all day. He's saying he does, in fact, want the fully balanced diet of veggies and pizza. However, if one day out of the week he wants to pig out and eat all pizza, he wants that option, and vice versa with going all vegetarian on them. I think that's been the general issue in all; people want the freedom to make their own decision rather than have SE dictate that to them.
That said, you are correct in that a player agrees to such a system if they do indeed purchase the game. If it's that big a deal to a person, such as Jezvin, they should avoid the game for now. Pretty simple.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
The system can't be viewed in a vacuum. The system, by design, is a compromise. It will hurt some people depending on their gaming style, and it will help others.
However, what it does overall, is contribute to a more balanced game for casuals and hardcores alike. The system allows casuals to keep pace, but it also allows horizontal growth by hardcores. A casual and a hardcore can have a rank 10 marauder and lvl 20 phyiscal level, but the hardcore player may have twice to three times as many skills to mix and match.
YES - choice is taken away from the hardcore players, but at what cost? What people are complaining about is losing "freedom" while, at the same time, they're actually making their chosen class BETTER. So this goes back to the premise that people don't like the idea of it all, not because its bad for the game. In fact, I would argue the system is perfect as is.
People just don't like being told to eat their veggies. No one is making you. Play another game that doesn't do that. There's no unwritten rule that FFXIV needs to adopt all of the failed philosophies of western mmos.
I 'm still pro towards this idea, but the combat is preventing me from ever trying this game.
Though this isn't the first game to have EXP caps.
Holy shit, This is awesome that I had to post again. what is it? A REASON TO HAVE THIS, AWESOME!
To stop RMT. ok alright I can go with it. (really I'm not a big fan of the reason but it's a good one)
O yeah sorry about comma's not really proof reading my posts
And to that other random guy, I played beta 1, 2, 3, but not open. To use an argument like yours I'm going to say people shouldn't listen to your becuase you missed it when you made your post out of SE's shit, and I will be nice enough to say SE is a Bull as to not confuse anyone that I am saying facts and not just my opinion.
This time i'm really gone, I jsut had to add that comment that it does nothing for casual players except allows them to be the gimp guy with no support skills from other jobs.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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It's hilarious that people are actually wasting effort to support a system that limits your play. I don't care how much you can polish it, but polishing a turd is still a turd. Here is an idea, REWARD players who change classes isntead of LIMITING ones that do not. Come on, If you like the system, fine, I don't mind the token system in Vindictus that limits your play but don't try to sell it to me like I should be happy it exists. A pay to play should NEVER LIMIT a players play style.
Hey, there is a damn good reason why they limit your toon growth...........................................................