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Star Wars: The Old Republic: PAX Prime 2010 Wrap-Up

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,581MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

In his latest Star Wars: The Old Republic article, MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton has taken all of the information from last week's PAX and synthesized it into a readable one-stop-source for all thing SWTOR. Find out what exactly was revealed at PAX and what Mike thinks. Be sure to swing by the forums to add your thoughts to the mix as well!

Well, PAX Prime has come and gone, and with only a few shows left, the season begins to wind down for the year. Did we learn anything new about Star Wars: The Old Republic at PAX compared to say, GamesCom? Why, yes, I believe we did!

Read more SWTOR: PAX Prime 2010 Wrap Up.


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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • chriswsmchriswsm Weston-super-MarePosts: 389Member

    I have to admit I am really looking forward to this.   Preorder already made (from the first day it became available for pre order) and I have a few games in the pipeline to tide me over until it is released.

    I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.

    Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,309Member Uncommon

    The lightsaber scene was really impressive and shows how they will really try to get you closely involved with your character imo.

    As for black & silver ones, well, only silver was available in Kotor 2, as Erickson has already put his veto against all the crazy variations on sabers (nunchuk sabers, saberaxes, saberpikes), I hope not to see black lightsabers.

    As for the neverending space debate, he took a jab at the 'sandbox space game' supporters with those comments, I thought it was pretty funny myself, some people take it a bit seriously.

    Although there are of course alternatives to the space game as it is now, which can provide the same cinematic experience, like a Rogue Squadron sort of game; he didn't dismiss the alternatives specifically, just the flying around and the mining.

     

    I myself would have preferred a little bit more freedom, but if it plays out like the vehicle section for the latest ME2 DLC, which has a similar concept, it'll be pretty epic imo.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 fresno, CAPosts: 1,431Member Uncommon

    I am quite happy with what I have seen from this game so far. It looks to be the level of story I have been craving in a MMO. It will change the way I approach the MMO and questing. Instead of click accept or click 1 click 1 click 1 then follow the map to kill x and return. Then repeat hundreds of times to level cap. I will have a reason and a choice to what I do in a quest. Regardless of the actuall combat that occures becuse of the quest.

     

    And I love that 3D map that you linked. It really gives you a good idea of the size of the starting planet. Not including dungeons, interiors and instances. How 90% of the world does look to be open world as was said by a dev.

     

    Now I know we still need a lot of info about the MMO side of the game. Crafting, PvP, AH's, social areas, raids, the "new" end game they are going to have and so on. But with just the level of RPG story that will be in this game will be worth the cost of the box IMO. And with 1600 hours of unique class story, a sub of $15 will be worth it. But the years of sub is still up for debate. We will see as spring of 2011 gets closer and closer.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    "More on the topic of moral choices, Daniel discussed the difficulty of going against the grain as a Sith or Jedi character. In one example, (spoilers ahead!), Daniel described one of the early missions involving the Sith Warrior who is collecting crystal shards in a tomb. The Warrior is assaulted by another Sith hopeful and his cronies, who is attempting to steal the crystals from you because he could not gather them himself. The player can choose to give the failed Sith his crystals at this point, which is obviously a Light Side choice, but that resets the quest for the player, forcing him to redo the entire tomb. It ain’t easy being good when you’re supposed to be bad. C’est la vie!"

     

    Does anyone know if this is just an incomplete quest, or is it indicative of the types of roleplayering decisions you're presented?  Because I'm reading this example as...

    Choose Option "A"

    or

    Choose Option "B" -> Restart Quest -> Choose Option "A"

    ...which doesn't strike me as much of a choice.  Are you simply relegated to repeating quests when you choose the wrong path, or will there be some other sort of method used?

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Unlight

    "More on the topic of moral choices, Daniel discussed the difficulty of going against the grain as a Sith or Jedi character. In one example, (spoilers ahead!), Daniel described one of the early missions involving the Sith Warrior who is collecting crystal shards in a tomb. The Warrior is assaulted by another Sith hopeful and his cronies, who is attempting to steal the crystals from you because he could not gather them himself. The player can choose to give the failed Sith his crystals at this point, which is obviously a Light Side choice, but that resets the quest for the player, forcing him to redo the entire tomb. It ain’t easy being good when you’re supposed to be bad. C’est la vie!"

     

    Does anyone know if this is just an incomplete quest, or is it indicative of the types of roleplayering decisions you're presented?  Because I'm reading this example as...

    Choose Option "A"

    or

    Choose Option "B" -> Restart Quest -> Choose Option "A"

    ...which doesn't strike me as much of a choice.  Are you simply relegated to repeating quests when you choose the wrong path, or will there be some other sort of method used?

    Bioware is pretty experienced at these kinds of story choices. I would imagine the second time around it would just end without the ambush. You get the crystals and take them back to NPC or wherever.

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon

    I have been lukewarm in my excitement/expectations for game, as there was little info given and most games lately have been very disappointing. But reading this article and looking at some of the linked maps, and well...it moved. Nuff said.

  • CaskioCaskio Abilene, TXPosts: 339Member

    Originally posted by artemisentr4



    I am quite happy with what I have seen from this game so far. It looks to be the level of story I have been craving in a MMO. It will change the way I approach the MMO and questing. Instead of click accept or click 1 click 1 click 1 then follow the map to kill x and return. Then repeat hundreds of times to level cap. I will have a reason and a choice to what I do in a quest. Regardless of the actuall combat that occures becuse of the quest.

     

    And I love that 3D map that you linked. It really gives you a good idea of the size of the starting planet. Not including dungeons, interiors and instances. How 90% of the world does look to be open world as was said by a dev.

     

    Now I know we still need a lot of info about the MMO side of the game. Crafting, PvP, AH's, social areas, raids, the "new" end game they are going to have and so on. But with just the level of RPG story that will be in this game will be worth the cost of the box IMO. And with 1600 hours of unique class story, a sub of $15 will be worth it. But the years of sub is still up for debate. We will see as spring of 2011 gets closer and closer.


     

    The maps are great and not to mention that Daniel said in an interview the starter-worlds are ridiculously small compared to the others.

    "If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio

    Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,717Administrator Uncommon

    Originally posted by Unlight



    "More on the topic of moral choices, Daniel discussed the difficulty of going against the grain as a Sith or Jedi character. In one example, (spoilers ahead!), Daniel described one of the early missions involving the Sith Warrior who is collecting crystal shards in a tomb. The Warrior is assaulted by another Sith hopeful and his cronies, who is attempting to steal the crystals from you because he could not gather them himself. The player can choose to give the failed Sith his crystals at this point, which is obviously a Light Side choice, but that resets the quest for the player, forcing him to redo the entire tomb. It ain’t easy being good when you’re supposed to be bad. C’est la vie!"

     

    Does anyone know if this is just an incomplete quest, or is it indicative of the types of roleplayering decisions you're presented?  Because I'm reading this example as...

    Choose Option "A"

    or

    Choose Option "B" -> Restart Quest -> Choose Option "A"

    ...which doesn't strike me as much of a choice.  Are you simply relegated to repeating quests when you choose the wrong path, or will there be some other sort of method used?


     

     

    Option B would play out Choose Option "B" -> Reaquire crystals - > Complete quest

    You are simply re-gathering the crystals as a result of giving them away, not literally restarting the quest as due to a false "choice". I hope that clears that up. Your main objective is to get the crystals, but you gave them away to do a good deed, that doesn't mean you can just return and complete the quest though, you need those crystals, so you'll need to regather them.

    Daniel used this example to illustrate that being a light Sith wasn't an easy path.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by MikeB



    Originally posted by Unlight



    "More on the topic of moral choices, Daniel discussed the difficulty of going against the grain as a Sith or Jedi character. In one example, (spoilers ahead!), Daniel described one of the early missions involving the Sith Warrior who is collecting crystal shards in a tomb. The Warrior is assaulted by another Sith hopeful and his cronies, who is attempting to steal the crystals from you because he could not gather them himself. The player can choose to give the failed Sith his crystals at this point, which is obviously a Light Side choice, but that resets the quest for the player, forcing him to redo the entire tomb. It ain’t easy being good when you’re supposed to be bad. C’est la vie!"

     

    Does anyone know if this is just an incomplete quest, or is it indicative of the types of roleplayering decisions you're presented?  Because I'm reading this example as...

    Choose Option "A"

    or

    Choose Option "B" -> Restart Quest -> Choose Option "A"

    ...which doesn't strike me as much of a choice.  Are you simply relegated to repeating quests when you choose the wrong path, or will there be some other sort of method used?


     

     

    Option B would play out Choose Option "B" -> Reaquire crystals - > Complete quest

    You are simply re-gathering the crystals as a result of giving them away, not literally restarting the quest as due to a false "choice". I hope that clears that up. Your main objective is to get the crystals, but you gave them away to do a good deed, that doesn't mean you can just return and complete the quest though, you need those crystals, so you'll need to regather them.

    Daniel used this example to illustrate that being a light Sith wasn't an easy path.


     

    Ah...

    I haven't been following the game that closely so this whole Light Sith thing is news to me.  I'll guess that by following the 'light' path, you're somehow rewarded with 'light points', which goes far to explaining the rationale for the decision branch.  Thanks for clearing it up.

  • SenadinaSenadina San Diego, CAPosts: 896Member Uncommon

    Looks like there is even LESS incentive to group, at least in PUGS, if some random dick can screw with your  story. I mostly solo anyway, and I am really looking forward to TOR, but I think GW2 is doing a better job with multiplayer;  making it welcoming, cooperative, non-committal, and rewarding.

    image
  • droinidroini hagerstown, MDPosts: 73Member

    Originally posted by Senadina

    Looks like there is even LESS incentive to group, at least in PUGS, if some random dick can screw with your  story. I mostly solo anyway, and I am really looking forward to TOR, but I think GW2 is doing a better job with multiplayer;  making it welcoming, cooperative, non-committal, and rewarding.


     

     I don't agree. U just have to Talk to your PUGs instead of taking the 1st person who says I in the LFG channel. ( Anyone doing So & SO quest? Need 1 more any class.  LFG: I do. :Send invite:] Now you don';t talk with him or her u just run through the instance as fast as Poss) Now with SW:ToR System u got to put a little bit of Though and some friendly talking into a Pug group. #2 goes like so. ( Anyone Doing So & So quest? Looking for anyclass Lgtside person Pref. PM me with your info thanks.)  Plus u will have to talk to your group in a Instance for a change instead of the No Talk PuGs of any Other MMO. I myself Enjoy have a Small Guild of 12 to Start with. This is a Good way of having enough ppl to quest with and u don't have to wonder if that guy who joined  is right for the guild. I always like to use PuGs to find my Guild Members. Make sure we don't get a Ass, Ninja or Just plain out Numskull in our Guild. Even in 6 years of being Guild Master in WoW we Stayed around 60 ppl some of the best ppl ever. Now we had a Sister Guild to work with to make it easier for Raids and so on. Which our Officers and there Officers would have a month Meeting make sure everything was going good. Then after we had our time we would have everyone show up for gifts and Prom's to deserving Members. Guess went off Subject. hehe Long story short PuGs where u got to talk with your Group is a Good thing.

  • karmathkarmath Posts: 827Member Uncommon

    WoW 2.0

     

    WoW in Space.

     

    Enough said.

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Denton, TXPosts: 3,138Member

    Daniel must be one pitiful writer since his view is only limited to "what he has seen". Must genuinely suck not having the ability to extrapolate and fill in the "B,C and D" between A and E.

     

    Of course, daring to think outside and much less venture outside of the box is commonplace in this modern MMO insider culture. Granted, it probably is most completely the case that "2 foot" is about as deep as they wanted to go with their vision for their game it show alot about who Daniel Erickson is with respect to the MMO's and creating worlds. He'll give you icing but don't expect there to be any cake under it.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • solarinesolarine IstanbulPosts: 1,203Member

    What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

  • ValecruizValecruiz Sussex, WIPosts: 21Member

    Originally posted by karmath



    WoW 2.0

     

    WoW in Space.

     

    Enough said.


     

    A) If you're not a Star Wars fan (even having just been pulled in by KoTOR 1 or 2), why bother giving 2 cents that has been seen and disregarded since this game was first introduced?

     

    B) If you played WoW and have actually kept up to date with this game, you'd know the differences are vast.  YES this game does incorporate an "Easy Mac" type UI, but you'd be stupid to see the overwhelmingly high praise for that set-up and then NOT use it for the sake of "creativity."  Talent trees give more personality to the classes, and I'm not even sure WoW started that idea either.  As for story, well I dare you to say Blizzard engages their fanbase with their "rivoting" lore and storyline.  Finally, there is no reason to suggest this game is going to basically be set to EZ mode like WoW was after 3 years of a mostly whiny adolescent fanbase.  Yes this game can be primarily solo'd, but the sense of "epicness" Bioware is trying to create for each character would be ruined if you could hit level cap in 4 days.  Where WoW is primarily end-game based (not even going to get in depth for fear of an actual nerd rage :P), the heart of TOR lies in majestic story-telling, something only very few MMO's remember from their character-sheet and DM-based ancestors.

    Balance Over All

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Denton, TXPosts: 3,138Member

    Originally posted by solarine

    What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

    No, I fully am capable of seeing that. As you don't know me personally it's a pretty stupid assumption to make. That said, I just have a very low opinion of shallow, unimaginative "your cake". When it comes to a list of gameplay options why I'd prefer this:

     

     

     

    Over this:

     

    However, unless your name is Daniel Erickson then my comments really weren't directed at you and you shouldn't have felt offended enough to reply directly to me. If you are he, then take the criticism and move on. You're in a business where pays to be able to do that lest you end up on meds.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 824Member

    So all this text to say...

     

    1- You can see how a Lightsaber is made

    2- There are ground locations you can walk and run in

    3- You will have some pre-scripted choices to make

    4- Space combat is an Arcade minigame

    The author should change jobs I think he talked more about the Star Wars movies than the actual game.

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    image
    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,274Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    Originally posted by solarine

    What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

    No, I fully am capable of seeing that. As you don't know me personally it's a pretty stupid assumption to make. That said, I just have a very low opinion of shallow, unimaginative "your cake". When it comes to a list of gameplay options why I'd prefer this:

     

     

     

    Over this:

     

    However, unless your name is Daniel Erickson then my comments really weren't directed at you and you shouldn't have felt offended enough to reply directly to me. If you are he, then take the criticism and move on. You're in a business where pays to be able to do that lest you end up on meds.

    Showing pictures does nothing to create a better point, or accentuate that you're any more or less right in your opinion... nice try though.

    In truth Its all a matter of perspective.  DE however, is actually able to speak about the lore that coincides with a lot of whats canon for the future as well as the past, areas of which many games don't even have to deal with.  SWG definitely didn't have to deal with it as they broke canon plenty of times while they went about ruining their game.   After 1000 pages of summarized lore to add to and change, most development teams couldn't scratch the surface on what the writers of TOR have to deal with.

     

    But thats neither here nor there,  as you will only like your cake the way you like it,  you have our full support to create your own game in your perceived image, and after you do, we can revisit this conversation.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Denton, TXPosts: 3,138Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Khalathwyr


    Originally posted by solarine

    What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

    No, I fully am capable of seeing that. As you don't know me personally it's a pretty stupid assumption to make. That said, I just have a very low opinion of shallow, unimaginative "your cake". When it comes to a list of gameplay options why I'd prefer this:

     

     

     

    Over this:

     

    However, unless your name is Daniel Erickson then my comments really weren't directed at you and you shouldn't have felt offended enough to reply directly to me. If you are he, then take the criticism and move on. You're in a business where pays to be able to do that lest you end up on meds.

    Showing pictures does nothing to create a better point, or accentuate that you're any more or less right in your opinion... nice try though.

    In truth Its all a matter of perspective.  DE however, is actually able to speak about the lore that coincides with a lot of whats canon for the future as well as the past, areas of which many games don't even have to deal with.  SWG definitely didn't have to deal with it as they broke canon plenty of times while they went about ruining their game.   After 1000 pages of summarized lore to add to and change, most development teams couldn't scratch the surface on what the writers of TOR have to deal with.

     

    But thats neither here nor there,  as you will only like your cake the way you like it,  you have our full support to create your own game in your perceived image, and after you do, we can revisit this conversation.

    Well, your problem is that you want this to be a "I'm right you're wrong" point from me and that's not where I'm heading. Course you have my full support in misreading what I write if it makes you feel better. That said, I'm sure my point wasn't wasted on others who read it for "one man's opinion" as opposed to an egregious attack on their game/game developers. I look at DE's comments for world building and their translation into game features as plain cake. He doesn't demonstrate vocally in my view the desire to add the other toppings as in the comparison of the two photos.

     

    Again, you may not like or agree with my view but it is still valid nonetheless. It is as you say a matter of perspective. It isn't, fortunately, only a matter of your perspective which has to be adopted by all.

     

    And please, find a new catch line other than the tired, immature  "when you make your own game, blah blah blah..". This isn't a fascist state (at least the country I live in). People are free to express their opinions and not only the ones you agree with. If people only hear your side of things than others out there making games will never know that there is a desire for things that you may not like.

     

    Oh, and had I a $150 million dollar budget making a space opera game I can guarantee you there'd be mining in space (amongst a plethora other B,C and D activities) as well as a full crafting system to put SWG's to shame. Dedicated crafters would have heart attacks at the amount of gameplay offered. Yep, that on top real (ship or shore) housing and riding shotgun along with raids, group content and opt-in open world PvP in dynamically contested areas.

     

    But I don't so I will continue to comment on what I like and what I don't. If my opinions offend you, well, I'm sure you'll find some way to make it through life.

    image

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,274Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    Originally posted by Khalathwyr


    Originally posted by solarine

    What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

    No, I fully am capable of seeing that. As you don't know me personally it's a pretty stupid assumption to make. That said, I just have a very low opinion of shallow, unimaginative "your cake". When it comes to a list of gameplay options why I'd prefer this:

     

    Over this:

    However, unless your name is Daniel Erickson then my comments really weren't directed at you and you shouldn't have felt offended enough to reply directly to me. If you are he, then take the criticism and move on. You're in a business where pays to be able to do that lest you end up on meds.

    Showing pictures does nothing to create a better point, or accentuate that you're any more or less right in your opinion... nice try though.

    In truth Its all a matter of perspective.  DE however, is actually able to speak about the lore that coincides with a lot of whats canon for the future as well as the past, areas of which many games don't even have to deal with.  SWG definitely didn't have to deal with it as they broke canon plenty of times while they went about ruining their game.   After 1000 pages of summarized lore to add to and change, most development teams couldn't scratch the surface on what the writers of TOR have to deal with.

     

    But thats neither here nor there,  as you will only like your cake the way you like it,  you have our full support to create your own game in your perceived image, and after you do, we can revisit this conversation.

    Well, your problem is that you want this to be a "I'm right you're wrong" point from me and that's not where I'm heading. Course you have my full support in misreading what I write if it makes you feel better. That said, I'm sure my point wasn't wasted on others who read it for "one man's opinion" as opposed to an egregious attack on their game/game developers. I look at DE's comments for world building and their translation into game features as plain cake. He doesn't demonstrate vocally in my view the desire to add the other toppings as in the comparison of the two photos.

     

    Again, you may not like or agree with my view but it is still valid nonetheless. It is as you say a matter of perspective. It isn't, fortunately, only a matter of your perspective which has to be adopted by all.

     

    And please, find a new catch line other than the tired, immature  "when you make your own game, blah blah blah..". This isn't a fascist state (at least the country I live in). People are free to express their opinions and not only the ones you agree with. If people only hear your side of things than others out there making games will never know that there is a desire for things that you may not like.

     

    Oh, and had I a $150 million dollar budget making a space opera game I can guarantee you there'd be mining in space (amongst a plethora other B,C and D activities) as well as a full crafting system to put SWG's to shame. Dedicated crafters would have heart attacks at the amount of gameplay offered. Yep, that on top real (ship or shore) housing and riding shotgun along with raids, group content and opt-in open world PvP in dynamically contested areas.

     

    But I don't so I will continue to comment on what I like and what I don't. If my opinions offend you, well, I'm sure you'll find some way to make it through life.

    image

    No they don't offend me at all,  in the end, I'll have a game to play, and you'll still be wanting something nobody is creating.  Hence the reason why, "when you make your own game, blah blah blah.."  Between your two posts, its the base behind them that are contradicting.   You said in the first one "Unless your name is DE you shouldn't be offended (blah blah blah)" Yet then you go on to say " I'm sure my point wasn't wasted on others who read it for  'one mans opinion' as opposed to an egregious attack on the game/game developers." (so it was or wasn't an attack on the game/game developers -- usually doing something to incite offense would be an attack)

     

    I never said you couldn't have your own opinion,  but as stated, it is a matter of perspective.  Your images of two cakes, though an interesting illustration didn't convey specifics to your point, or what DE has or hasn't brought to the game.  "The other toppings" if you will.  If the "other toppings"  =  SWG crafting times 2,  mining asteroids, and sandbox gameplay,  you were barking up the wrong tree in the first place.  However, if you're looking for open world PvP in contested areas, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

     

    In MY perspective,  what DE has said made me think that " the cake " has many, many more tiers then what you are seeing.  From the storylines, to the world arcs,  to the exploration... the factions, the classes, the gameplay styles, the alignment.  It all sounds like there are a lot of choices for varied content and gameplay choices,  but I don't expect everyone to like it.  

     

    What I do expect is those that don't like it to get a grip.  If you want SWG2,  this isn't it.  That doesn't mean the DE can't assist in putting together a good game or add those additional toppings to the game that is being created.  It just won't be based on unrealistic wants for this type of game or unfounded expectations.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Denton, TXPosts: 3,138Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Khalathwyr


    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    Originally posted by Khalathwyr


    Originally posted by solarine

    What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

    No, I fully am capable of seeing that. As you don't know me personally it's a pretty stupid assumption to make. That said, I just have a very low opinion of shallow, unimaginative "your cake". When it comes to a list of gameplay options why I'd prefer this:

     

    Over this:

    However, unless your name is Daniel Erickson then my comments really weren't directed at you and you shouldn't have felt offended enough to reply directly to me. If you are he, then take the criticism and move on. You're in a business where pays to be able to do that lest you end up on meds.

    Showing pictures does nothing to create a better point, or accentuate that you're any more or less right in your opinion... nice try though.

    In truth Its all a matter of perspective.  DE however, is actually able to speak about the lore that coincides with a lot of whats canon for the future as well as the past, areas of which many games don't even have to deal with.  SWG definitely didn't have to deal with it as they broke canon plenty of times while they went about ruining their game.   After 1000 pages of summarized lore to add to and change, most development teams couldn't scratch the surface on what the writers of TOR have to deal with.

     

    But thats neither here nor there,  as you will only like your cake the way you like it,  you have our full support to create your own game in your perceived image, and after you do, we can revisit this conversation.

    Well, your problem is that you want this to be a "I'm right you're wrong" point from me and that's not where I'm heading. Course you have my full support in misreading what I write if it makes you feel better. That said, I'm sure my point wasn't wasted on others who read it for "one man's opinion" as opposed to an egregious attack on their game/game developers. I look at DE's comments for world building and their translation into game features as plain cake. He doesn't demonstrate vocally in my view the desire to add the other toppings as in the comparison of the two photos.

     

    Again, you may not like or agree with my view but it is still valid nonetheless. It is as you say a matter of perspective. It isn't, fortunately, only a matter of your perspective which has to be adopted by all.

     

    And please, find a new catch line other than the tired, immature  "when you make your own game, blah blah blah..". This isn't a fascist state (at least the country I live in). People are free to express their opinions and not only the ones you agree with. If people only hear your side of things than others out there making games will never know that there is a desire for things that you may not like.

     

    Oh, and had I a $150 million dollar budget making a space opera game I can guarantee you there'd be mining in space (amongst a plethora other B,C and D activities) as well as a full crafting system to put SWG's to shame. Dedicated crafters would have heart attacks at the amount of gameplay offered. Yep, that on top real (ship or shore) housing and riding shotgun along with raids, group content and opt-in open world PvP in dynamically contested areas.

     

    But I don't so I will continue to comment on what I like and what I don't. If my opinions offend you, well, I'm sure you'll find some way to make it through life.

    image

    No they don't offend me at all,  in the end, I'll have a game to play, and you'll still be wanting something nobody is creating.  Hence the reason why, "when you make your own game, blah blah blah.."  Between your two posts, its the base behind them that are contradicting.   You said in the first one "Unless your name is DE you shouldn't be offended (blah blah blah)" Yet then you go on to say " I'm sure my point wasn't wasted on others who read it for  'one mans opinion' as opposed to an egregious attack on the game/game developers." (so it was or wasn't an attack on the game/game developers -- usually doing something to incite offense would be an attack)

     

    I never said you couldn't have your own opinion,  but as stated, it is a matter of perspective.  Your images of two cakes, though an interesting illustration didn't convey specifics to your point, or what DE has or hasn't brought to the game.  "The other toppings" if you will.  If the "other toppings"  =  SWG crafting times 2,  mining asteroids, and sandbox gameplay,  you were barking up the wrong tree in the first place.  However, if you're looking for open world PvP in contested areas, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

     

    In MY perspective,  what DE has said made me think that " the cake " has many, many more tiers then what you are seeing.  From the storylines, to the world arcs,  to the exploration... the factions, the classes, the gameplay styles, the alignment.  It all sounds like there are a lot of choices for varied content and gameplay choices,  but I don't expect everyone to like it.  

     

    What I do expect is those that don't like it to get a grip.  If you want SWG2,  this isn't it.  That doesn't mean the DE can't assist in putting together a good game or add those additional toppings to the game that is being created.  It just won't be based on unrealistic wants for this type of game or unfounded expectations.

    Well, let's learn to read to the period as opposed to cherry picking comments. If you do so in that first you'll note the word criticism and that being in relation to DE and DE only. Criticism isn't necessarily an attack yet some with thin skin will take it as such. That was the point in respect to that which I addressed. No contradiction there, just a case of assumption of intent along with cherry picking.

     

    No, the two cakes didn't convey specifics and neither were they intended so. They did convey, however, overall sentiment in how I felt the comparison is to what TOR is offering versus what I desire in a SW IP MMO. That underlying sentiment was an easy one to pick up. I'm surprised you had so much trouble with it. Wait, well, you must have gotten it as you begin to outline a few of the things it represents. All is well now.

     

    As for "barking up the wrong tree", that cliche is inappropriately used here. I never made the assumption that TOR was going to have any of those things from the day it was announced. I knew, however, that if it didn't have 75-80% of them I wasn't going to play it. So there is no disappointment from me and I most certainly am not one of those wishing Bioware would change their game to suit me. Knowing what I know from a buddy that's worked on this title there is no way they (Bioware) are going to do it and as it's my money I simply don't have to settle. *shrug*

     

    I have nothing but respect for your perspective and can see how you would see that. I just don't see the same thing which is probably due to me not being the exact same person as you and having different gaming desires. Which is 100% cool. You'll give Bioware money for this title, I won't. Life goes on.

     

    What I do expect is that those who are in love with everything TOR released to get a grip as well. You aren't the only ones who like the IP and your gaming tastes most certainly aren't the only way a game can be made. So if someone mentions disappointment in the way in which Bioware is taking the game have enough respect to leave them to their comments and not make assumptions ("This isn't SWG2") about what it is they want. It's very clear the majority of the times you don't ask them but instead assume and then launch into this isn't SWG2 mode.

     

    You also assume that they are campaigning for the game to change when many of them are not. They are simply laying out their displeasure about the lack of certain features that would have caused them to buy the game not being present.

     

    Oh, and to clear up, yet again, another assumption stated in your very first sentence of this reply, I most certainly will have a game to play and I'll be playing in mine before you in yours most likely (provided development continues to go well). Lastly, before another assumption is made and stated erroneously I'll just make clear the reason I responded to this topic in the first was that I try to keep up with everything MikeB writes for this site. If anything my comments were directed to him as conversation. Of course, others can see and comment on them and then it turns into this long, drawn out back and forth.

     

    It's cool though. I'll take the hit to save Mike some space in his inbox.

     

    Ah, forum life.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,274Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    Originally posted by Khalathwyr


    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    Originally posted by Khalathwyr


    Originally posted by solarine

    What Khal doesn't understand is, what he considers icing others might consider cake. Of course, he would have to think outside his own box for that. 

    No, I fully am capable of seeing that. As you don't know me personally it's a pretty stupid assumption to make. That said, I just have a very low opinion of shallow, unimaginative "your cake". When it comes to a list of gameplay options why I'd prefer this:

     

    Over this:

    However, unless your name is Daniel Erickson then my comments really weren't directed at you and you shouldn't have felt offended enough to reply directly to me. If you are he, then take the criticism and move on. You're in a business where pays to be able to do that lest you end up on meds.

    Showing pictures does nothing to create a better point, or accentuate that you're any more or less right in your opinion... nice try though.

    In truth Its all a matter of perspective.  DE however, is actually able to speak about the lore that coincides with a lot of whats canon for the future as well as the past, areas of which many games don't even have to deal with.  SWG definitely didn't have to deal with it as they broke canon plenty of times while they went about ruining their game.   After 1000 pages of summarized lore to add to and change, most development teams couldn't scratch the surface on what the writers of TOR have to deal with.

     

    But thats neither here nor there,  as you will only like your cake the way you like it,  you have our full support to create your own game in your perceived image, and after you do, we can revisit this conversation.

    Well, your problem is that you want this to be a "I'm right you're wrong" point from me and that's not where I'm heading. Course you have my full support in misreading what I write if it makes you feel better. That said, I'm sure my point wasn't wasted on others who read it for "one man's opinion" as opposed to an egregious attack on their game/game developers. I look at DE's comments for world building and their translation into game features as plain cake. He doesn't demonstrate vocally in my view the desire to add the other toppings as in the comparison of the two photos.

     

    Again, you may not like or agree with my view but it is still valid nonetheless. It is as you say a matter of perspective. It isn't, fortunately, only a matter of your perspective which has to be adopted by all.

     

    And please, find a new catch line other than the tired, immature  "when you make your own game, blah blah blah..". This isn't a fascist state (at least the country I live in). People are free to express their opinions and not only the ones you agree with. If people only hear your side of things than others out there making games will never know that there is a desire for things that you may not like.

     

    Oh, and had I a $150 million dollar budget making a space opera game I can guarantee you there'd be mining in space (amongst a plethora other B,C and D activities) as well as a full crafting system to put SWG's to shame. Dedicated crafters would have heart attacks at the amount of gameplay offered. Yep, that on top real (ship or shore) housing and riding shotgun along with raids, group content and opt-in open world PvP in dynamically contested areas.

     

    But I don't so I will continue to comment on what I like and what I don't. If my opinions offend you, well, I'm sure you'll find some way to make it through life.

    image

    No they don't offend me at all,  in the end, I'll have a game to play, and you'll still be wanting something nobody is creating.  Hence the reason why, "when you make your own game, blah blah blah.."  Between your two posts, its the base behind them that are contradicting.   You said in the first one "Unless your name is DE you shouldn't be offended (blah blah blah)" Yet then you go on to say " I'm sure my point wasn't wasted on others who read it for  'one mans opinion' as opposed to an egregious attack on the game/game developers." (so it was or wasn't an attack on the game/game developers -- usually doing something to incite offense would be an attack)

     

    I never said you couldn't have your own opinion,  but as stated, it is a matter of perspective.  Your images of two cakes, though an interesting illustration didn't convey specifics to your point, or what DE has or hasn't brought to the game.  "The other toppings" if you will.  If the "other toppings"  =  SWG crafting times 2,  mining asteroids, and sandbox gameplay,  you were barking up the wrong tree in the first place.  However, if you're looking for open world PvP in contested areas, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

     

    In MY perspective,  what DE has said made me think that " the cake " has many, many more tiers then what you are seeing.  From the storylines, to the world arcs,  to the exploration... the factions, the classes, the gameplay styles, the alignment.  It all sounds like there are a lot of choices for varied content and gameplay choices,  but I don't expect everyone to like it.  

     

    What I do expect is those that don't like it to get a grip.  If you want SWG2,  this isn't it.  That doesn't mean the DE can't assist in putting together a good game or add those additional toppings to the game that is being created.  It just won't be based on unrealistic wants for this type of game or unfounded expectations.

    Well, let's learn to read to the period as opposed to cherry picking comments. If you do so in that first you'll note the word criticism and that being in relation to DE and DE only. Criticism isn't necessarily an attack yet some with thin skin will take it as such. That was the point in respect to that which I addressed. No contradiction there, just a case of assumption of intent along with cherry picking.

     

    No, the two cakes didn't convey specifics and neither were they intended so. They did convey, however, overall sentiment in how I felt the comparison is to what TOR is offering versus what I desire in a SW IP MMO. That underlying sentiment was an easy one to pick up. I'm surprised you had so much trouble with it. Wait, well, you must have gotten it as you begin to outline a few of the things it represents. All is well now.

     

    As for "barking up the wrong tree", that cliche is inappropriately used here. I never made the assumption that TOR was going to have any of those things from the day it was announced. I knew, however, that if it didn't have 75-80% of them I wasn't going to play it. So there is no disappointment from me and I most certainly am not one of those wishing Bioware would change their game to suit me. Knowing what I know from a buddy that's worked on this title there is no way they (Bioware) are going to do it and as it's my money I simply don't have to settle. *shrug*

     

    I have nothing but respect for your perspective and can see how you would see that. I just don't see the same thing which is probably due to me not being the exact same person as you and having different gaming desires. Which is 100% cool. You'll give Bioware money for this title, I won't. Life goes on.

     

    What I do expect is that those who are in love with everything TOR released to get a grip as well. You aren't the only ones who like the IP and your gaming tastes most certainly aren't the only way a game can be made. So if someone mentions disappointment in the way in which Bioware is taking the game have enough respect to leave them to their comments and not make assumptions ("This isn't SWG2") about what it is they want. It's very clear the majority of the times you don't ask them but instead assume and then launch into this isn't SWG2 mode.

     

    You also assume that they are campaigning for the game to change when many of them are not. They are simply laying out their displeasure about the lack of certain features that would have caused them to buy the game not being present.

     

    Oh, and to clear up, yet again, another assumption stated in your very first sentence of this reply, I most certainly will have a game to play and I'll be playing in mine before you in yours most likely (provided development continues to go well). Lastly, before another assumption is made and stated erroneously I'll just make clear the reason I responded to this topic in the first was that I try to keep up with everything MikeB writes for this site. If anything my comments were directed to him as conversation. Of course, others can see and comment on them and then it turns into this long, drawn out back and forth.

     

    It's cool though. I'll take the hit to save Mike some space in his inbox.

     

    Ah, forum life.

    Perhaps it was a little presumptuous on my end to believe that you were "attacking" the game rather then stating a blanket personal opinion, but as you know its not often we get people that utilize logic, reasoning and understanding.  Under no circumstances was I trying to say that your opinion was "wrong".   

     

    I am not that big of a fan of the Star Wars IP,  I'm just a big fan of games in general, and although I too would enjoy a game with the ideas you spoke about, I can't hold it against BioWare for not creating that kind of game.  There is no doubt in my mind that the game BioWare will create will be nothing short of engrossing.  I don't think the game will appeal to many sandbox MMO players, but I think anyone that can stand to appreciate BioWares past I think will find a place in BioWares future.

     

    My apologies if I seemed hostile in any way. No offense intended.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • segynsegyn charlottesville, VAPosts: 234Member

    Originally posted by Unlight

    "More on the topic of moral choices, Daniel discussed the difficulty of going against the grain as a Sith or Jedi character. In one example, (spoilers ahead!), Daniel described one of the early missions involving the Sith Warrior who is collecting crystal shards in a tomb. The Warrior is assaulted by another Sith hopeful and his cronies, who is attempting to steal the crystals from you because he could not gather them himself. The player can choose to give the failed Sith his crystals at this point, which is obviously a Light Side choice, but that resets the quest for the player, forcing him to redo the entire tomb. It ain’t easy being good when you’re supposed to be bad. C’est la vie!"

     

    Does anyone know if this is just an incomplete quest, or is it indicative of the types of roleplayering decisions you're presented?  Because I'm reading this example as...

    Choose Option "A"

    or

    Choose Option "B" -> Restart Quest -> Choose Option "A"

    ...which doesn't strike me as much of a choice.  Are you simply relegated to repeating quests when you choose the wrong path, or will there be some other sort of method used?

    not like that at all what he was saying is if you give him your crystals you no longer have the crystals to turn in so you have to gather them again to complete your quest. Not go to the starting npc again and make differnet choices you already accepted the quest but you gave your items away so you have to gather your items again so you can complete it.

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