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Class based vs freeform skill based

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  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    Without details I would choose class based.. Why?  Because if you go skill base,my experience shows me that people will always gravitate to the "optimal" set up..  90% of the players will min/max a skill system to figure out the ONE best template and eventually everyone flocks to that set up..  Therefore, in my opinion, I would rather just have straight up role defining classes..  Diversity to me is a key element to online social play, plus it keeps me from getting bored to tears..

    Think about it.. If you have a classless system , you end up having a one class system.. No need for alts.. However people normally get bored of the main toon and strive to make alts, and will always pick a different class when they do.. Class based for the win :)

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Without details I would choose class based.. Why?  Because if you go skill base,my experience shows me that people will always gravitate to the "optimal" set up..  90% of the players will min/max a skill system to figure out the ONE best template and eventually everyone flocks to that set up..  Therefore, in my opinion, I would rather just have straight up role defining classes..  Diversity to me is a key element to online social play, plus it keeps me from getting bored to tears..

    Think about it.. If you have a classless system , you end up having a one class system.. No need for alts.. However people normally get bored of the main toon and strive to make alts, and will always pick a different class when they do.. Class based for the win :)

    SWG and Ultima Online both had characters with very divers and wide range of skill groups.  Neither of which produced the mythical "1 class" game that people keep bringing up.  In fact you might be hard pressed to find two characters that are identical in swg for example. 

    Every game, regardless of its character building system, will produce flavor of the month builds that people scream at the top of their lungs is the only viable build, but given the option players have and do deviate from the perceived best builds. 

     

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Without details I would choose class based.. Why?  Because if you go skill base,my experience shows me that people will always gravitate to the "optimal" set up..  90% of the players will min/max a skill system to figure out the ONE best template and eventually everyone flocks to that set up..  Therefore, in my opinion, I would rather just have straight up role defining classes..  Diversity to me is a key element to online social play, plus it keeps me from getting bored to tears..

    Think about it.. If you have a classless system , you end up having a one class system.. No need for alts.. However people normally get bored of the main toon and strive to make alts, and will always pick a different class when they do.. Class based for the win :)

    SWG and Ultima Online both had characters with very divers and wide range of skill groups.  Neither of which produced the mythical "1 class" game that people keep bringing up.  In fact you might be hard pressed to find two characters that are identical in swg for example. 

    Every game, regardless of its character building system, will produce flavor of the month builds that people scream at the top of their lungs is the only viable build, but given the option players have and do deviate from the perceived best builds. 

     

    I would disagree with the SWG example..  I played that game from Day 1 till Day 150something.. lol  After CU and before NGE..  Non combat skills was the only thing people did a lil of this, or a lil of that with..  I played a master musican, that was novice pistoleer and C/H..  However I was not a combat toon.. I remember those that did focus on combat only.. I remember when everyone went Creature Handler (remember the game being called Pet Wars) until that was nerfed.. Then I remember all the combat players going "combat medic".. That was nerfed then, and eventually I think it turned into 90% going TKA/doc combo..  

    I'll stick with my opinion that when I played it.. if you were a combat fighting class.. 90% of then always gravitated to a "best" template.. It was one reason why SWG came out with the NGE class set up.. 

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Think about it.. If you have a classless system , you end up having a one class system.. No need for alts.. However people normally get bored of the main toon and strive to make alts, and will always pick a different class when they do.. Class based for the win :)

     

    Could you describe the one class in Asheron's Call, EVE Online, Puzzle Pirates, ATITD or Ultima Online?

    If not, could you list the skill-based MMOs you are referring to?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by Rydeson

    I would disagree with the SWG example..  I played that game from Day 1 till Day 150something.. lol  After CU and before NGE..  Non combat skills was the only thing people did a lil of this, or a lil of that with..  I played a master musican, that was novice pistoleer and C/H..  However I was not a combat toon.. I remember those that did focus on combat only.. I remember when everyone went Creature Handler (remember the game being called Pet Wars) until that was nerfed.. Then I remember all the combat players going "combat medic".. That was nerfed then, and eventually I think it turned into 90% going TKA/doc combo..  

    I'll stick with my opinion that when I played it.. if you were a combat fighting class.. 90% of then always gravitated to a "best" template.. It was one reason why SWG came out with the NGE class set up.. 

    There were plenty of smugglers, bounty hunters, commandos, swordsmans, medics, pistoleers, rifleman and countless other combinations of classes running around during those flavor of the month periods.   Every fight was different, because there were so many different character builds running around, even for the more popular templates.  I can assure you that "everyone" did not go creature handler, combat medic or tka/doc.  Popular, sure, but no where close to the exagerations you post. 

    It doesn't really matter if some sterile spreadsheet crunches numbers to show that one build is 4% better than another build in ideal labratory conditions.  Being able to build a character with abilities that cater to your playstyle will be give better results. 

    The combat update period of SWG took a lot of freedom away and forced players into picking more streamlined builds due to how the character level system worked.  Even still there were many different character builds for combat, crafting and socializing.  Far greater than anything a class based system could produce.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 Member UncommonPosts: 2,770

    It looks like there are some that genuinely like the Class-based format better but some pick it because its the safe choice, not knowing what excatly what the skills based system entales. There are a lot of different ones that have been tried but still many more to be discovered. But I think the biggest problem that still remains is getting progression work as well as Class/level based.

     

    lol I was just thinking how you could combat the FotM problem. Whatever skill build is used the most either automattically gets slightly nerfed or everyone engaing that person is a little better attacking them. (Of course I wouldn't tell the players :D )Not being serious but it makes me wonder...

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    lol I was just thinking how you could combat the FotM problem. Whatever skill build is used the most either automattically gets slightly nerfed or everyone engaing that person is a little better attacking them. (Of course I wouldn't tell the players :D )Not being serious but it makes me wonder...

    Sounds a bit like AC's old spell system, the name of which I can't remember, where the more a spell was used across the game world, the weaker it would become.  However, I'm still not convinced there really is a FotM problem in skill-based MMOs currently as I see a lot more diversity in templates and character careers than in class-based MMOs.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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