Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

question for people upset about space combat.

baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?

i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?

many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!

«1345

Comments

  • MazinMazin Jacksonville, FLPosts: 640Member

    I'm optimistic about TOR and will be purchasing it because I've always had fun with Bioware's games.

    That said MMO's are a different animal, there has to be content that is continous.  Literally an MMO should aim for around 2000 hours of gameplay, a single player game that has 50 hours would be considered a long game in todays standards.  So this is where people come off saying the game is on rails including space and it has them worried. 

    Will we play after running through the story a time or two?  What will keep us playing?

    Does it have a gear grind like WoW?

    Or maybe an economy and politics of Eve?

    How about the feeling of a living universe the sorts of SWG?

    After I do my story what will keep me and the rest of MMO'ers playing, that is the test that Bioware has to pass.  Can they do it, I hope so or I'm done with the genre, so I'm optimistic but it will be a surprise to me if they can hold me for longer than 6 months, here's to hoping they can.

  • bronzeroninbronzeronin Gilbert, AZPosts: 89Member

    I was surprised that we are getting any type of space combat from the get go.  Yeah its part of the SW theme to have at least some but think any form the start is just gravy and no matter what else I have read on other threads that state that it would be to much of a problem to add or change from the initial offering, i just don't buy that.  I mean games get stuff added, patched and expanded all the time.  Some times its not for the best and others it works out.  I am really tired though of all the people who have this unrealistic expectation on not only this game but others.  If its not the graphics its the gameplay style or not this or too much of that, yada yada yada.  Talk about a bunch of whiners.  

     

    If a game is not to your expectations there is really only one thing to really do, quit the effin' game.  Don't resub and B&M on its and these and other forums it sound like a bunch of 8 year olds.  Man I hate being harsh but man most of you guys have forgotten why you play these games to begin with and if you are not having fun and your form of having fun is B&Ming on forum boards you are in need of therapy.  I mean serious therapy.  

     

    One last thing people need to use the search to try to find out if stuff has been posted before cause thats all I see is stuff that gets rehashed every two weeks or sow.  Not referring to this post just a couple of other ones that I have read lately that are simply just and extension of other threads that are still active.

     

    Sorry rant over and everyone just try to have fun.

     

    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.

    Groucho Marx

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Mazin
    I'm optimistic about TOR and will be purchasing it because I've always had fun with Bioware's games.
    That said MMO's are a different animal, there has to be content that is continous.  Literally an MMO should aim for around 2000 hours of gameplay, a single player game that has 50 hours would be considered a long game in todays standards.  So this is where people come off saying the game is on rails including space and it has them worried. 
    Will we play after running through the story a time or two?  What will keep us playing?
    Does it have a gear grind like WoW?
    Or maybe an economy and politics of Eve?
    How about the feeling of a living universe the sorts of SWG?
    After I do my story what will keep me and the rest of MMO'ers playing, that is the test that Bioware has to pass.  Can they do it, I hope so or I'm done with the genre, so I'm optimistic but it will be a surprise to me if they can hold me for longer than 6 months, here's to hoping they can.

    you are assuming that they will not have enough story content so they need to have extensive space content?

    me personally, i would rather them work on endgame content that is consistent with the rest of the content, rather than have them add extensive space combat.


    people will blow through the regular content and want more, that's how it is in every mmo i have played.

    i think they are doing the right thing as far as the KOTOR brand goes, they don't need extensive space combat, they need more story and endgame content to keep the game new and fun.

    as long as they can keep the story rolling and keep it new and fun, they will hit jackpot i think.

    also don't forget that there is a unique story to each class, so if you are a fan of bioware and the dialog in their games, that should also keep you intrigued for a while if the endgame is lackluster, i would think.

    the main thing that concerns me is how they will implement endgame, that's the key and extensive space combat isn't the answer.

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

    Misleading thread title is misleading.  I am upset that there is  space combat in my Star Wars game.  What question do you have for me?

    Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by bronzeronin
    I was surprised that we are getting any type of space combat from the get go.  Yeah its part of the SW theme to have at least some but think any form the start is just gravy and no matter what else I have read on other threads that state that it would be to much of a problem to add or change from the initial offering, i just don't buy that.  I mean games get stuff added, patched and expanded all the time.  Some times its not for the best and others it works out.  I am really tired though of all the people who have this unrealistic expectation on not only this game but others.  If its not the graphics its the gameplay style or not this or too much of that, yada yada yada.  Talk about a bunch of whiners.  
     
    If a game is not to your expectations there is really only one thing to really do, quit the effin' game.  Don't resub and B&M on its and these and other forums it sound like a bunch of 8 year olds.  Man I hate being harsh but man most of you guys have forgotten why you play these games to begin with and if you are not having fun and your form of having fun is B&Ming on forum boards you are in need of therapy.  I mean serious therapy.  
     
    One last thing people need to use the search to try to find out if stuff has been posted before cause thats all I see is stuff that gets rehashed every two weeks or sow.  Not referring to this post just a couple of other ones that I have read lately that are simply just and extension of other threads that are still active.
     
    Sorry rant over and everyone just try to have fun.
     

    i made this topic because i am curious to see if these are actually fans of the KOTOR brand, because i am willing to bet most of them are not.

    especially the people that say they will not play if it doesn't have extensive space combat. i find it extremely hard to believe that a fan of KOTOR or boware games in general would feel that way, simply because none of their games have it and were very successful.

  • mulcebarmulcebar AdelaidePosts: 24Member

    I'm not worried so much about space combat being in the game but I am hoping that there is a sense of space travel. exploration of space, being able to fly different ships etc... that would really fullfill the geeky scifi fantasy for me. there hasnt ever been a game that does this to my satisfaction, even mass effect 2's space travel was little more than a google maps type thing I'd love to see eve style space travel and solid ground combat and exploration work together to give the feeling of travelling through space and interacting with different star systems. but I'm not getting my hopes up. no expectations this time around. that only ever leads to disappointment.

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

    Originally posted by mulcebar

    I'm not worried so much about space combat being in the game but I am hoping that there is a sense of space travel. exploration of space, being able to fly different ships etc... that would really fullfill the geeky scifi fantasy for me. there hasnt ever been a game that does this to my satisfaction, even mass effect 2's space travel was little more than a google maps type thing I'd love to see eve style space travel and solid ground combat and exploration work together to give the feeling of travelling through space and interacting with different star systems. but I'm not getting my hopes up. no expectations this time around. that only ever leads to disappointment.

     In  what scene in a Star Wars movie did anybody go out and explore space?  Just saying.

    Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    Not much of a fan of Star Wars ip, but am when it comes to Bioware's rpg.

    I think the design of the persistent worlds on different planets and the inclusion of space combat should go a very very long way to pleasing ppl who are into star wars or bioware rpg. It's a very essential addition and will add more to the game than the albeit small amount of time involved in space combat. Don't think there is anything to worry about.

  • DahlifyrDahlifyr FilipstadPosts: 133Member Uncommon

    They are making an MMO not a singleplayer game, if they where amining at theire fans why are they then going for an MMO? Instead of wasting time and money on fluff like Voiceovers they could have done SpaceCombat properly.

    I sure hope this is not an indication on how the rest of the game will be.

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    Originally posted by baphamet

    are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?

    i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?

    many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!

    I'm a fan of BioWare games going back to Baldur's Gate days.  I liked the KOTOR games and I loved the Mass Effect games.  But you shouldn't make a MMO game the same way you make a single-player game.  I wasn't going to "live" in the Mass Effect universe.  Mass Effect 1 & 2 each took less than a week to play through.

     

    A single player RPG - especially ones like KOTOR and ME - is like watching an interactive movie.  When the movie (storyline) is over, so is the game.  An MMO is meant to be a virtual world, you character is meant to live there.  It's not about getting to the end of the storyline.  It's about having a meaningful on-going life for the character with a variety of things to do (some of which include great storylines).  

     

    A single-player RPG is all about the story, you can have the same engine and the same crappy mechanics and make a thousand GREAT RPGs out of it by changing the story.   An MMO is all about the different mechanics and facilitation of interaction between your character, the world and other players.  In the Star Wars universe space gameplay (not just combat) is an integral part of the experience.  There are no Han and Lando without smuggling.  There are no Luke and Anakin without piloting.  There is no Boba Fett without Bounty Hunting (part of which chasing people in your ship).   A single-player game can afford a narrow focus such as KOTOR because it's just one story and it's perfectly fine if that story is set on the ground.  But you can't set "the star wars galaxy" in its entirety on the ground.  Well you can, but I don't think it's appropriate.

     

    So yes, I'm a huge fan of BioWare games.  But that doesn't mean I won't criticize them.  They've never made an MMO and making an MMO the same way one makes a single-player game is a mistake.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
    Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  • dhayes68dhayes68 New York, NYPosts: 1,393Member Common

    Originally posted by baphamet

    are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?

    i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?

    many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!

    I understand your point but to a lot if mmo fans, using a single-player rpg as a comparison doesn't help.

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,579Member Uncommon

    MMO'ers really do want to much out of MMO games. To the poster who said an MMO should be aiming at 2000 hours gameplay content?!? Is this 2000 hours of unique gameplay content or 2000 hours of grind? To fund a game with 2000 hours of unique gameplay content will cost alot more than $150 million and to cover costs the monthly sub will be upped,  stopping some from purchasing. Probably also include a cash shop stopping some narrow-minded people from playing.

    image
  • BeanpuieBeanpuie Norfolk, VAPosts: 812Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by baphamet

    are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?

    i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?

    many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!

     

    am i a fan of bioware games?

    yep ever since Neverwinter Nights 1

     

    Did i play the original kotor and mass effect games?

    yep, twice and i liked them both

     

    why expect bioware  to pull out a extensive space combat?

    because after throwing a announcement in comic-con that space combat is in, (and adding the snippit as alternative play as one red flag), and having the hype train go on full blast to let some Magizine to shed the details of this announcement, all this for some game mechanic that has as much worth as a 25 cent arcade machine roller coaster???

    I am calm in saying this, but the build up for a mini game many would and will consider as a afterthought seems like a wasted effort on biowares behalf as well as PC magizine and the fans.

    is this a game breaker for me personally, far from it, i will buy SWTOR day 1 purchase due to already know what i am to expect from this game.

    however, i am not naive to say this is not a big deal, because it is a big deal, esspecially in this genre. Bioware's core elements that they used in previous games, swoop bike anyone, turret shoot out anyone, may have worked on singleplayer style games, but in the MMO genre,  entirely different beast all together, the growing trend of anti-restrictions in MMO's is only going to get bigger, and ultimately run over bioware if they arent careful.

    SWTOR is themepark written all over it,  restrictions in classes, species, player ship housing, the list goes on and any company with a investor breathing down their necks will do what they can to hold as much info as possible to grab as many suckers to buy their game. Again, i myself do not mind it one bit, ill be buying this game day 1, but those outside the bioware fan demographic hearing this sort of news by far have a bitter taste in their mouths.

  • mulcebarmulcebar AdelaidePosts: 24Member

    @souldrainer

    It is a game right?, a role playing game in which exploration is a big part of the experience. the movies may not have had space exploration but I'm hoping there is some kind of ships and travel mechanics in the MMO, It'd be fun right??

  • agagaagaga Bismarck, NDPosts: 273Member

    Originally posted by baphamet

    are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?

    i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?

    many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!

    Well, yes, the first KOTOR was a pretty good rpg.

    But SWTOR is not an rpg - it's a mmorpg.

    If it has a good flight game integrated within it, it will be a pretty good mmorpg.

    If it has a bad, simplistic, rudimentary flight game bolted on to it, then the quality of the whole mmorpg is degraded.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Dahlifyr
    They are making an MMO not a singleplayer game, if they where amining at theire fans why are they then going for an MMO? Instead of wasting time and money on fluff like Voiceovers they could have done SpaceCombat properly.
    I sure hope this is not an indication on how the rest of the game will be.

    what does having extensive space combat have to do with it being an mmo? putting in that kind of space combat is not aiming at their fans, they have never had that kind of combat in any off their games.

    voiceovers and dialog is what they do, not space combat.

  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,077Member Uncommon

    I think a main problem is that there is a large disconnect between what is ideal and what is feasible.  Sure it would be great to have a completely flushed out space combat/exploration system in there in addition to the ground game, with stories interwoven between the two and rewards balanced against each other, i just dont think its possible without adding a significant amount of time and money to development, and then would it even be worth it?  The only other way would be to cut down on polish and testing, but then we would probably end up with STO in a star wars skin, with both modes of gameplay being mediocre.

    Not to mention the rift it would cause in the player base.  I can just see it, the spacies would complain that space combat isnt getting enough attention and the land dwellers would just say L2Walk noob. 

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon

    As i mentioned in another thread, i'm not worried about space combat in the slightest as there will be plenty of room for paid expansions with this game. If they make they game killer just with ground combat and a slight sprinkling of space ill be happy, if they add extensive combat via a paid expansion then i'll be even happier.

     

    Who knows, they may even be holding off on proper space combat in the knowledge that doing it via expansion will net them a small fortune.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by agaga

    Originally posted by baphamet
    are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?
    i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?
    many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!
    Well, yes, the first KOTOR was a pretty good rpg.
    But SWTOR is not an rpg - it's a mmorpg.
    If it has a good flight game integrated within it, it will be a pretty good mmorpg.
    If it has a bad, simplistic, rudimentary flight game bolted on to it, then the quality of the whole mmorpg is degraded.

    i fail to see why it needs to have space combat in order to be an mmo. that just makes absolutely no sense, it has persistent worlds, it has massive amounts of people playing it online, its based off of the KOTOR brand, which never had space combat and didn't need it.

    it does need endgame and i sure as hell would rather them concentrate on that or something els that compliments the core game, than have them waste time on extensive space combat and free roam travel.


  • agagaagaga Bismarck, NDPosts: 273Member

    Originally posted by baphamet

     




    Originally posted by agaga





    Originally posted by baphamet

    are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?

    i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?

    many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!






    Well, yes, the first KOTOR was a pretty good rpg.

    But SWTOR is not an rpg - it's a mmorpg.

    If it has a good flight game integrated within it, it will be a pretty good mmorpg.

    If it has a bad, simplistic, rudimentary flight game bolted on to it, then the quality of the whole mmorpg is degraded.




    i fail to see why it needs to have space combat in order to be an mmo. that just makes absolutely no sense, it has persistent worlds, it has massive amounts of people playing it online, its based off of the KOTOR brand, which never had space combat and didn't need it.

    it does need endgame and i sure as hell would rather them concentrate on that or something els that compliments the core game, than have them waste time on extensive space combat and free roam travel.

     

     

    I didn't say that.

    I said that if it has a bad element within it, it is likely to be a bad mmorpg overall.

    Hope that clears things up.

  • Marcus-Marcus- Posts: 970Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by baphamet

     




    Originally posted by Dahlifyr

    They are making an MMO not a singleplayer game, if they where amining at theire fans why are they then going for an MMO? Instead of wasting time and money on fluff like Voiceovers they could have done SpaceCombat properly.

    I sure hope this is not an indication on how the rest of the game will be.




     

    what does having extensive space combat have to do with it being an mmo? putting in that kind of space combat is not aiming at their fans, they have never had that kind of combat in any off their games.

    voiceovers and dialog is what they do, not space combat.

     You'll have to forgive me if i don't exactly find that a comforting statement about my MMORPG designer...

     

    ; )

  • Lexe01Lexe01 Darkside of the moonPosts: 97Member

    Originally posted by agaga

    I didn't say that.

    I said that if it has a bad element within it, it is likely to be a bad mmorpg overall.

    Hope that clears things up.

     I think I agree to the fact that adding space-combat so late in development is a huge risk of bringing down the overall quality of the game. Sure hope the space thing is optional and they won't force it on us, like having to go through it in order to travel or to advance. Maybe they should have stuck to playerhousing untill the first addon. (the screens that I saw of player housing/ships where full of details and awesome)

  • agagaagaga Bismarck, NDPosts: 273Member

    Originally posted by Lexe01

    Originally posted by agaga

    I didn't say that.

    I said that if it has a bad element within it, it is likely to be a bad mmorpg overall.

    Hope that clears things up.

     I think I agree to the fact that adding space-combat so late in development is a huge risk of bringing down the overall quality of the game. Sure hope the space thing is optional and they won't force it on us, like having to go through it in order to travel or to advance. Maybe they should have sticked to playerhousing untill the first addon. (the screens that I saw of player housing/ships where full of details and awesome)

    I certainly agree with you that this 'flight element' is a late addition to the game - as such, it betokens a panic-stricken, improvisional mindset amongst the Bioware/LA strategists, Did they think the rest of the game, on which they had spent five years working, was not going to be good enough and so required 'something new'?

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    Originally posted by baphamet

    i fail to see why it needs to have space combat in order to be an mmo. that just makes absolutely no sense, it has persistent worlds, it has massive amounts of people playing it online, its based off of the KOTOR brand, which never had space combat and didn't need it.

    It doesn't need space content (content includes combat) in order to be an MMO.  There is no argument that it's an MMO.

     

    It needs to have space content in order to accurately represent the star wars world on which it's based.  It's not based on the KOTOR brand, it's based on the Star Wars brand.  

     

    SWG and STO both had space and ground combat and were made by substantially worse developers than BioWare and with a lot less money.  Surely BioWare can do better, no?  I really don't think it was too high of an expectation for fans of BioWare and Star Wars to expect a game that was significantly better and more elaborate than those two.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
    Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon



    Originally posted by agaga

    I certainly agree with you that this 'flight element' is a late addition to the game - as such, it betokens a panic-stricken, improvisional mindset amongst the Bioware/LA strategists, Did they think the rest of the game, on which they had spent five years working, was not going to be good enough and so required 'something new'?

    You're making an assumption that it's a late development in the game, for all you know it could have been intended as it's so far been described by them and the first thing they developed. I'm not saying it was, merely pointing out that you and others are jumping to conclusions. None of us know what was planned when, developed when, how long they've been worked on, nothing realy. It's all conjecture and needless worry at this point.

«1345
Sign In or Register to comment.