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I say PvE without a tanking system is nothing more than a Zerg Fest.
that box you live in is mighty small. ;p
Zerg fest sounds more fun than having that arrogant tank in your party.
Well ive been thining about a game mechanic without healer tank 3 dps groups etz or more for raid.
And it would be pretty easy , simpel items with hp leech in % of dmg or some skills within a class .
And the boss fights itself could be very difficult and fun where each player would have difrent task to do change with each other in those task becouse of some debuff or something il could think of tons of nice things where we wouldnt have to wait for a tank or healer to go into a dungeon.
And this kind a game would be nice .
I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you Genghis Khan
Originally posted by MMOExposed I say PvE without a tanking system is nothing more than a Zerg Fest.
I agree with you but that is what a lot of todays players want. Just watch most of the massive FPS today. There is little to no teamwork. Just a bunch of people running around killing as many people as possible before they die.
Originally posted by Elirion Originally posted by MMOExposed I say PvE without a tanking system is nothing more than a Zerg Fest.
Both of u are just simpel minded <.<
some people don't want to play dps.
aka rp a mass-murderer. where do these people go?
Guild Wars doesn't have tanks. And there is a limit to 8 person party. So zerging is simply not possible there and GW has one of the better comabt systems. Wow a little common sense wouldn't hurt op.
Originally posted by twstdstrange Zerg fest sounds more fun than having that arrogant tank in your party.
It does. I can recall so many of those tanks that would drop group in a hissy fit about anything to force your group to disband or wait an hour looking for a tank.
Having no tank system you end up relying on playing keep away from the aggro'd mob and stay out of LOS until someone else picks it up. It could be fun and it would be different.
Originally posted by mmoguy43 Originally posted by twstdstrange Zerg fest sounds more fun than having that arrogant tank in your party.
I would know everything there is to know about arrogant tanks. I am one! =^.^=
Well, I try not to be, though I probably come off as one because I always bark orders to the lackluster Zergling DPS players who don't seem to know the concept of threat, or how to understand the phrase "Don't AoE for at least four seconds after I drop consecration." and then complaing when they pull mobs.
I then kindly remind them my qeue time is five seconds while theirs can be up to fifteen minutes.
I have a short fuse at times when dealing with... Incompetent players. Especially Hunters... Bloody Hunters...
I had a huge conversation about this matter with some rl friends the other day.
I have reasons to believe that such a system could be way better than the usual tank and spank wow/style tanking system. Let me explain. I ll take as example ddo online .Tanking in ddo is something misty. There are tanking styles players paladins,warriors with shields and builds that support survivalability of the player and also a taunt . But there is the style of the combat and the combat mechanics that u almost never see all mobs being tanked by the tank. One of the reasons is that there are many sudden encounters where 1 mob spwns next to the mage 2 in front 1-2 from left side and 1-2 from right side and all these mobs u have to fight them by tanking them at least for some seconds by almost everyone in the party.
Such situations raise adrenaline keeps u tight and alert and ofc if the combat system is actually working its way more fun and intresting than the casual tank system.Combat is becoming that way more intresting and fun (that depends on player's taste cause many ppl nowdays want always to win easilly without the need to actually fight hard or think carefully to win something). Also that way u dont just put all your talents for max dps but you have to think carefully to build a character that is also having some good standards of survival (tough to kill).
And thats one of the more intresting things also in ddo many options for the character build feats skills extra feats racial feats etc. and its also something id like to see in more and more mmorpg's that are coming a deep character advancement system ..something more than just 3 talent trees.
Tanking is a very simple form of teamwork that is easy for most players to understand and fit in with.
There are other examples of teamwork, and how it can be used by games to make encounters - for example, combination moves, or skills that require special timing or team positioning. However, many of these other forms of teamwork suffer from simple flaws:
1) If the teamwork is easy to execute and repeatable, then encounters risk becoming trivial.
2) If the teamwork is difficult to achieve, then many groups will struggle, and players will leave to find other games they are more successful at. So the game ends up being niche.
Tank and spank has the advantage that groups can successfully emply teamwork, even if a few members of the group are below average players. It offers "something for everyone", allowing people of a variety of different personalities and ability levels to work together, in such a way that they all feel they are being challenged.
The tank slot appeals to a certain personality type. They have a need to feel important..A good tank can carry an entire group..What are these people going to do if you remove the tank slot from encounters?
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Originally posted by uquipu The tank slot appeals to a certain personality type. They have a need to feel important. . A good tank can carry an entire group. . What are these people going to do if you remove the tank slot from encounters?
I tank for one real reason, Because no one else does. I also hate the chaos of zerging.
And I love the trinity system for mmos there is nothing wrong with it at all, if you hate it then maybe MMOs aren't your thing.
No trinity at all in an mmo is like a first person shooter without guns, yeah it can be don't but its not as fun.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
A possible solution would be to allow the inclusion of tank characters, but not make them exactly necessary unless the group wants one or the situation specifically would call for one.
I think a group should be made up of anything, and players shouldn't be inclined to choose the player's class over the player herself.
As far as grouping in WoW goes, the general tank consensus is Paladin or go home.
If you were putting together a group of friends to play with, wouldn't you rather say "Let's take John [a DPS], he knows his stuff, besides he's a riot in vent."
Instead of, "Let's lurk general chat for some random tank that we can pretend to like for forty five minutes until we get our loot and drop group."
Originally posted by spades07 that box you live in is mighty small. ;p
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Tanks are good for the types of MMORPG games that are popular right now. Having to pull mobs and soak up damage lend's itself to having a role for that. Saying that all MMORPGs have to have mechanics that would require a tank, to be anything more than a zergfest, is silly in my opinion.
There were no tanks in any of the fantasy books or movies. There were warriors, but they didn't have to worry about aggro control, if I remember right. There were some circumstances where the warrior intercepted an enemy to save his companion's life, but does anyone remember Gandalf swinging that staff around?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I've kited many a group mob solo. It's a skill I learned in Everquest that serves me everytime I pick up a ranged class. Even 100% dps groups where I had to kite while the rest of the group nuked or followed whacking mobs from behind.
The margin for error is small and practice with a particular team is needed, but it's doable depending on the MMO and mobs.
Cry some more.
I love being unkillable in rpgs. But I hate the aggro control that comes with it in mmos. I liked how DDO had it. I'd run in front as a pally, grab majority of the aggro and chop things up. Things would go around but people could hand adds. It wasn't "OH CRAP I GOT SOMETHING ON ME BLEHHHHH" That and hack n slash rpgs like d2, where some classes could go toe to toe with big bosses (Barbarian/pally) but weren't considered useless in dps.
Guild Wars. 'nuff said.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by Snaylor47 No trinity at all in an mmo is like a first person shooter without guns, yeah it can be don't but its not as fun.
and how would you know? have you playing another MMORPG without the trinity?
Originally posted by Snaylor47
No trinity at all in an mmo is like a first person shooter without guns, yeah it can be don't but its not as fun.
...And yet you're looking forward to GW2 which will completely get rid of this trinity?
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
I'll do two better:
PVE without Tanks, DPS, or Healers.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I really like idea of what they're trying to do with GW2, although I'm not sure they can pull it off.
The tank's one and only job is to control the encounter. The healer's one and only job is to support his allies. These two jobs are very much mandatory and often thankless (leading to a major shortage of pug tanks and healers in some games, who wants to be called a drama queen because they decided to make group play the cornerstone of their gameplay experience, or told they're not qualified to assist you because some arbitrary number is too low?)
Then you have everyone else who gets to use a variety of interesting abilities to make the enemies die and assist the tank and healer with control and support as necessary (the latter being much more important in some games than others). The theme I see in a lot of the upcoming MMOs is to take the job of control and support and spread them around to everyone. In theory this sounds great and will be - for people who already play tanks and healers. They finally get to actually kill things while helping their groupmates in critical group-oriented roles; it's like having your cake, and eating it too.
But I'm not entirely sure this is actually what the majority of people want. In every MMO I've ever played it's always been the most self-reliant, highest-DPS, least-group-utility classes that end up being the most popular. Many people simply refuse to fill a critical group role, even if they theoretically could do so. I'm not sure a game that forces everyone, regardless of what class they rolled, to have an equal share of group responsibility would be well received by the larger MMO community.
I keep placing Siege tank at the ramp of my base. but the zerg just keeps coming anyway....it does help a little though...
1) The first line of the title of this thread is an opinion, and thus can't be "proven" one way or the other.
2) No one needs to prove you wrong, because a) refer to number 1 and b) even if your statement was about something provable, the burden of proof is on your shoulders for making the statement in the first place.
3) You didn't define what you meant by "zergfest" or whether it's bad or why.
4) There are games out and future titles that don't use tank setups and seem quite organized/fun in PvE imo (ex. Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2, etc).