DDO went f2p becouse it was a major failure at launch.
Lotro is going f2p becouse it is failing big time due to lack of content, with guilds (kins in that game) disappearing becouse people were leaving the games in droves.
DDO went f2p becouse it was a major failure at launch.
Lotro is going f2p becouse it is failing big time due to lack of content, with guilds (kins in that game) disappearing becouse people were leaving the games in droves.
This is so true. I logged in to play ddo the first time in 3 years. I found the same old stuff and half the content i was going to have to buy back. I was like wow content I had already paid for in the original game, cut out just because I let my sub lapse a long time back.
Yes I have to agree ddo was dead, lotro was dying slowing, and anybody who says the games are polished makes me laugh. Followed up by the amazing amount of content statement, no content for 9 months and folks still say lotro was producing content, Im like what game where they playing, sure was not lotro.
Most of the vewts i knew left ddo well because they did everything, got board. LOTRO was different, the entire LI mess with the entire radaince gate to raids chased off most of the vets that I know.
Sad to say but turbine now bears a mark as bad as what soe did for swg.
You know, in just about any thread related to a writers article here, I see mmorpg.com staff willing and ready to jump in and defend the writer and/or his/her piece when people start to unfairly criticize the author. Has anyone noticed yet that NOONE from mmorpg.com has done that in this particular instance? Seems to me that perhaps Mr. Aioshi and his "article" aren't being unfairly criticized. I do wonder if he'll have a job next week.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
God this thread is hilarious.... such rampant QQing over nothing but some made up insults that he supposedly directed at you.
BTW folks, the forums are modded plenty, and your emissing one key point in his su[pposed "trolling" and "attacks" against you. None of them were directed at any particular individual, they were directed at the masses of misinformation and stupidity coming forth from various threads an dvarious people.
Now if he sat here and said "(insert name) is a complete f**ktard and has no idea what theyre talking about, etc ,etc" that could be taken as an attack or insult. You crybabies need to learn the differenc ebetween an attack on an individual and an attack a certain ideal. God i could just imagine all the crying and moaning that would ensue if i felt like taking the time to pick out each of your individual religous and other various beliefs and shoot them full of holes like he did with your anti-F2P drama.
Speaking of hysterical responses... Seems you're putting up something of a strawman here.
I don't recall anyone in this thread claiming that he was addressing them personally. I don't recall anyone here claiming he called them out by name. So what exactly are *you* going on about?
Also interesting that in defense of his behavior, you resort to name-calling yourself... what could be deemed trolling behavior.
Quaint.
Aioshi is addressing, and repeatedly has definitely addressed detractors to his pro-F2P position (ie. a *group* of people, not any one individual) in what can only be considered a hostile, smug and arrogant manner. He gives specific examples of things that people have said... The title, "It is what it is" is a statement that's been used in argument against the F2P model in these very threads. What people do you think he's referring to when he makes such comments? Who do you think he's referring to as "being in denial" for not sharing his views on F2P? Some people on some other website, but not any number of people here? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume you don't think that and realize he's referring to people here on mmorpg.com - at least in part.
People are offended by the way the guy responds to those who disagree with him. They're bewildered as to how he's still writing columns for this site considering the way he conducts himself in them.
It's one thing when the bashing is coming from other posters. However, when it's a staff-selected, supposedly professional *columnist* doing the bashing and making pot-shots at people who, essentially, express their disagreement with him - however sane or insane their arguments are - I think it's perfectly valid for people to take a step back and say "WTF?".
[Mod Edit]
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You know, in just about any thread related to a writers article here, I see mmorpg.com staff willing and ready to jump in and defend the writer and/or his/her piece when people start to unfairly criticize the author. Has anyone noticed yet that NOONE from mmorpg.com has done that in this particular instance? Seems to me that perhaps Mr. Aioshi and his "article" aren't being unfairly criticized. I do wonder if he'll have a job next week.
Good point.
In fact, the authors themselves will often come in and respond on their own behalf to criticism or questions made about their articles. Not Aioshi... He posts his weekly "offering" in his typical drive-by manner and then disappears back into the woodwork.
Hopefully their lack of involvement is a sign of goings-on behind the scenes and they're looking for someone to take his place.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You know, in just about any thread related to a writers article here, I see mmorpg.com staff willing and ready to jump in and defend the writer and/or his/her piece when people start to unfairly criticize the author. Has anyone noticed yet that NOONE from mmorpg.com has done that in this particular instance? Seems to me that perhaps Mr. Aioshi and his "article" aren't being unfairly criticized. I do wonder if he'll have a job next week.
Good point.
In fact, the authors themselves will often come in and respond on their own behalf to criticism or questions made about their articles. Not Aioshi... He posts his weekly "offering" in his typical drive-by manner and then disappears back into the woodwork.
Hopefully their lack of involvement is a sign of goings-on behind the scenes and they're looking for someone to take his place.
I fully agree.
The free to play market is sorely misrepresented on this site by the rantings of Richard. The bulk of his articles have focused so much effort on internet psychology aimed at anyone who might disagree with him that is makes getting anything useful from his articles a chore at best.
It would be nice to read an article about free to play that actually talks about the subject matter instead listening to Richard talk about the people who are going to join the discussion and what is "wrong" with them.
Please remember to follow our Rules of Conduct found below in my signature. It is one thing to voice your opinion about how an article is written, but do not add any personal attacks in your posts. If a user is found to be flaming any other user, columnist or not, they will be warned and/or banned.
I'm not into free to play online games because they are designed so that in the end you will spend hundreds of dollars on armor, weapons, mounts, pets, potions, charms and other items and I think that $15 a month is enough for a online game, actually I pay more because I use game cards, never trusts to give out my credit card information on the internet no matter how secure they claim it to be.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Please remember to follow our Rules of Conduct found below in my signature. It is one thing to voice your opinion about how an article is written, but do not add any personal attacks in your posts. If a user is found to be flaming any other user, columnist or not, they will be warned and/or banned.
How about columnist trolling and flamebaiting your users, albeit collectively rather than singling each one out? I believe both of those fall under the RoC as well.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
There should be a /petiton system for "writers" here, so that with enough votes from members, they get the boot out the door.
Sounds great in theory... But I'm also sure it would be *wayyyy* abused.
Look at how some posters respond to anyone who dares *disagree* with them. To some, merely saying "I disagree with your opinion" is the same as calling them any string of derogatory terms. I can't begin to recall how many times I've been called a troll for voicing a differing opinion; or told I should be banned from the forums because I dare to criticize a game that others like.
Imagine if that complete intolerance of different opinions were allowed to be applied to columnists? If mmorpg.com adhered to such a thing, they'd be rotating columnists out every week from how much they'd be voted down. Although I'm sure the staff would have their own gauge in place.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
There should be a /petiton system for "writers" here, so that with enough votes from members, they get the boot out the door.
Sounds great in theory... But I'm also sure it would be *wayyyy* abused.
Look at how some posters respond to anyone who dares *disagree* with them. To some, merely saying "I disagree with your opinion" is the same as calling them any string of derogatory terms. I can't begin to recall how many times I've been called a troll for voicing a differing opinion; or told I should be banned from the forums because I dare to criticize a game that others like.
Imagine if that complete intolerance of different opinions were allowed to be applied to columnists? If mmorpg.com adhered to such a thing, they'd be rotating columnists out every week from how much they'd be voted down. Although I'm sure the staff would have their own gauge in place.
Well, the final say would of course be mmorpg.com management. But with a voting system like this, it would be real easy to get staff to look at an "article" and how it's written if you have 3 people voting "for" and 100 people voting "against". Take this thread, for instance. The ratio of "for" and "against" Aioshi's article would be staggeringly in the negative just from looking at the posted responses, more than enough reason for mmorpg.com to look at it and say "Hmm, maybe there IS a problem here.".
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
its as simple as this, i dont want to have to make a buying decision everytime I log into my favorite game, kind of takes the "fun" out of it. I also dont want to bust out my calculator or fire up excel to see how much enjoying all asepects of a game is really gonna cost me every month............ It doesnt take a dedicated column and 50 words to understand that.
its as simple as this, i dont want to have to make a buying decision everytime I log into my favorite game, kind of takes the "fun" out of it. I also dont want to bust out my calculator or fire up excel to see how much enjoying all asepects of a game is really gonna cost me every month............ and It doesnt take a dedicated column to make my point.
Sweet, they're letting the columnists troll the forums now, its open season baby.
I for one don't think the announcement heralds the end of MMORPG's or even the P2P model, however it does point the way to an increasingly hyrbid model of payment options and revenue streams which I think all MMO's will soon employ. (even my beloved EVE)
I do think its not fair to lump all alternate payment models under the single category of F2P, as there is considerable difference in how they are employed in a game like ROM vs that employed by DDO, however its too complicated to invent a lot more new terms so what the hell, let's just stick with one and keep it simple.
EVE already has a "hybrid" payment option Kyleran, but can't you see - you foolish conservative dinosaur - that's it is the wrong kind of hybrid, beause it doesn't allow for soaking more dollars per account? It's a useless relic, because it still incentivises CCP to make the game worth subscibing to, instead of incentivising them to make it unplayable unless you're paying them two or three times as much as the normal $15 sub. Paleolithic is the only word to describe such an old-fashioned model.
Get with the times, old man.
Can't think of a good way to post a rebuttal to mine so you lead with slams regarding my age, common sense, or political views? (BTW, I tend to be a fiscal conservative but a social liberal)
And you are correct, EVE's game design encourages multiple accounts (much as DAOC did) yet both games are extremely playable by a person who only has one account and that's how the majority of players in both games rolled. (just not me)
I'm not sure why you think game designs should not encourage players to sub to more than one account, its just yet another alternative payment model and truth is, everything in the game is available to a single account but certainly having multiple accounts imparts advantages.
And EVE has other RMT aspects BTW, they charge us to change our Avatars portraits and of course there's the PLEX system which doesn't directly feed into CCP, however indirectly it of course pays for more subs in the game.
I figure its a matter of time before they get sucked into the cash shop game, probably to give us something like ship customization (appearance only) or when/if Incarna comes, they'll be tempted to sell us alternate clothing or let us own a "house" in them that we can pay to furnish.
The lure of easy money has a very strong appeal.
As for getting with the times, I'm already there. I've played F2P games in the past, and in fact I'm currently playing Earth Eternal (under this name) because someone stated it was a great example of a "good" F2P game so I decided to find out if the experience was better than the one I had with ROM.
The free to play haters are true blue morons. DDO proved Free to Play can be viable and not be a scam. After the Free to Play conversion of LOTRO I added this game onto my must play list. Truth is Ive always wanted to check it out, but I never did because I couldnt see LOTRO as anything more than a casual game and didnt want to pay the $15 a month for a "maybe."
The reason that I, personally, hate the F2P model and avoid it like someone lumbering toward me with oozing blisters on their face is simple, the developer's incentive.
In the subscription model the developers need to make their game interesting and full of content enough that I want to keep playing and want to keep my subscription active. Their incentive is to make a really good game.
In the F2P model, I feel like the real incentive the developers have is to try to trick me into buying things by setting up the game in such a way that either I HAVE to buy things to compete or it is extremely incovenient to avoid buying things. Either it takes too long to do things or It is just too much of a pain. The incentive they have is not so much to create the best content they can, but to create content that either pries open my wallet or leaves me grinding for ridiculously long periods of time.
The more successful the subscription model is, the harder the developer will work to make us happy. The more successful the F2P model is, the harder the developer will work to trick me into buying more and more crap and the more confident they will feel offering cash only perks.
Thus, the developers can take their F2P model and cram it so far up their content pipeline that they are picking it out of thier keyboards as far as I am concerned.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
Comments
DDO went f2p becouse it was a major failure at launch.
Lotro is going f2p becouse it is failing big time due to lack of content, with guilds (kins in that game) disappearing becouse people were leaving the games in droves.
This is so true. I logged in to play ddo the first time in 3 years. I found the same old stuff and half the content i was going to have to buy back. I was like wow content I had already paid for in the original game, cut out just because I let my sub lapse a long time back.
Yes I have to agree ddo was dead, lotro was dying slowing, and anybody who says the games are polished makes me laugh. Followed up by the amazing amount of content statement, no content for 9 months and folks still say lotro was producing content, Im like what game where they playing, sure was not lotro.
Most of the vewts i knew left ddo well because they did everything, got board. LOTRO was different, the entire LI mess with the entire radaince gate to raids chased off most of the vets that I know.
Sad to say but turbine now bears a mark as bad as what soe did for swg.
You know, in just about any thread related to a writers article here, I see mmorpg.com staff willing and ready to jump in and defend the writer and/or his/her piece when people start to unfairly criticize the author. Has anyone noticed yet that NOONE from mmorpg.com has done that in this particular instance? Seems to me that perhaps Mr. Aioshi and his "article" aren't being unfairly criticized. I do wonder if he'll have a job next week.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Speaking of hysterical responses... Seems you're putting up something of a strawman here.
I don't recall anyone in this thread claiming that he was addressing them personally. I don't recall anyone here claiming he called them out by name. So what exactly are *you* going on about?
Also interesting that in defense of his behavior, you resort to name-calling yourself... what could be deemed trolling behavior.
Quaint.
Aioshi is addressing, and repeatedly has definitely addressed detractors to his pro-F2P position (ie. a *group* of people, not any one individual) in what can only be considered a hostile, smug and arrogant manner. He gives specific examples of things that people have said... The title, "It is what it is" is a statement that's been used in argument against the F2P model in these very threads. What people do you think he's referring to when he makes such comments? Who do you think he's referring to as "being in denial" for not sharing his views on F2P? Some people on some other website, but not any number of people here? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume you don't think that and realize he's referring to people here on mmorpg.com - at least in part.
People are offended by the way the guy responds to those who disagree with him. They're bewildered as to how he's still writing columns for this site considering the way he conducts himself in them.
It's one thing when the bashing is coming from other posters. However, when it's a staff-selected, supposedly professional *columnist* doing the bashing and making pot-shots at people who, essentially, express their disagreement with him - however sane or insane their arguments are - I think it's perfectly valid for people to take a step back and say "WTF?".
[Mod Edit]
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Good point.
In fact, the authors themselves will often come in and respond on their own behalf to criticism or questions made about their articles. Not Aioshi... He posts his weekly "offering" in his typical drive-by manner and then disappears back into the woodwork.
Hopefully their lack of involvement is a sign of goings-on behind the scenes and they're looking for someone to take his place.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I fully agree.
The free to play market is sorely misrepresented on this site by the rantings of Richard. The bulk of his articles have focused so much effort on internet psychology aimed at anyone who might disagree with him that is makes getting anything useful from his articles a chore at best.
It would be nice to read an article about free to play that actually talks about the subject matter instead listening to Richard talk about the people who are going to join the discussion and what is "wrong" with them.
Please remember to follow our Rules of Conduct found below in my signature. It is one thing to voice your opinion about how an article is written, but do not add any personal attacks in your posts. If a user is found to be flaming any other user, columnist or not, they will be warned and/or banned.
I'm not into free to play online games because they are designed so that in the end you will spend hundreds of dollars on armor, weapons, mounts, pets, potions, charms and other items and I think that $15 a month is enough for a online game, actually I pay more because I use game cards, never trusts to give out my credit card information on the internet no matter how secure they claim it to be.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
How about columnist trolling and flamebaiting your users, albeit collectively rather than singling each one out? I believe both of those fall under the RoC as well.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Sounds great in theory... But I'm also sure it would be *wayyyy* abused.
Look at how some posters respond to anyone who dares *disagree* with them. To some, merely saying "I disagree with your opinion" is the same as calling them any string of derogatory terms. I can't begin to recall how many times I've been called a troll for voicing a differing opinion; or told I should be banned from the forums because I dare to criticize a game that others like.
Imagine if that complete intolerance of different opinions were allowed to be applied to columnists? If mmorpg.com adhered to such a thing, they'd be rotating columnists out every week from how much they'd be voted down. Although I'm sure the staff would have their own gauge in place.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well, the final say would of course be mmorpg.com management. But with a voting system like this, it would be real easy to get staff to look at an "article" and how it's written if you have 3 people voting "for" and 100 people voting "against". Take this thread, for instance. The ratio of "for" and "against" Aioshi's article would be staggeringly in the negative just from looking at the posted responses, more than enough reason for mmorpg.com to look at it and say "Hmm, maybe there IS a problem here.".
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
its as simple as this, i dont want to have to make a buying decision everytime I log into my favorite game, kind of takes the "fun" out of it. I also dont want to bust out my calculator or fire up excel to see how much enjoying all asepects of a game is really gonna cost me every month............ It doesnt take a dedicated column and 50 words to understand that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Dear Grandmaster Free2Plea,
Could you make a bigger list of F2P games that were created and run by N.American companies? Thanks.
The free to play haters are true blue morons. DDO proved Free to Play can be viable and not be a scam. After the Free to Play conversion of LOTRO I added this game onto my must play list. Truth is Ive always wanted to check it out, but I never did because I couldnt see LOTRO as anything more than a casual game and didnt want to pay the $15 a month for a "maybe."
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
The reason that I, personally, hate the F2P model and avoid it like someone lumbering toward me with oozing blisters on their face is simple, the developer's incentive.
In the subscription model the developers need to make their game interesting and full of content enough that I want to keep playing and want to keep my subscription active. Their incentive is to make a really good game.
In the F2P model, I feel like the real incentive the developers have is to try to trick me into buying things by setting up the game in such a way that either I HAVE to buy things to compete or it is extremely incovenient to avoid buying things. Either it takes too long to do things or It is just too much of a pain. The incentive they have is not so much to create the best content they can, but to create content that either pries open my wallet or leaves me grinding for ridiculously long periods of time.
The more successful the subscription model is, the harder the developer will work to make us happy. The more successful the F2P model is, the harder the developer will work to trick me into buying more and more crap and the more confident they will feel offering cash only perks.
Thus, the developers can take their F2P model and cram it so far up their content pipeline that they are picking it out of thier keyboards as far as I am concerned.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC