Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Dark Age of Camelot: What if... Dark Age of Camelot 2
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
I'd proberbly play it by game card but not by giving my credit card details .
Let's keep the enthusiasm going on this one. I think this could really be a success if they did the following:
Pulled a 'Cataclysm' on DAOC, changing the look/content of some of the historical zones
Reverted back to the original DAOC landmass to consolidate the playerbase and "re-release" some of them as later expansions with new looks/functions
Allowed players to actually go (at least partially) into other lands and battle players (and not just the battleground); I don't recall if this was ever implemented
Revamped the engine to a more modern look (not I did not say replace)
Update the GUI
Re-balance classes (good luck!) with a drastic decrease in CC
Make the dungeons provide much better loot than the instanced/solo dungeons (or at least the chance for much better loot) to promote grouping again, or just have a few at specific level ranges and not scale as well as the existing ones do.
Add public quests - and not only combat-based ones! Why hasn't someone made a public quest that requires on-the-spot crafting, like a PQ about a dam that springs a leak (every 20 minutes, go figure) and the players have to gather items, craft the logs (using actual craft skills), the supports, etc, and repair the dam. Or something comparable.
Add in some non-combat social avenues. Very few (if any) MMOs have done this well. Add in the ability to gamble (with computer and/or players), lotto, contests with in-game voting, darts, etc etc.
I agree with all the posters in this thread that said there will not be a DAOC2, it would be DAOC mixed with WOW (just like WAR). The gaming industry has changed, from the times when we were the core that the gaming industry went after. I honestly do not know one person (that is a friend or I have meet traveling) in my age bracket late 20 early 30s that plays a AAA MMO. Most play niche MMOs or have went back to single player games, Yes at one time they all had played WoW for years. I would love to see a game like DAOC again come to life and be successful. Unfortantly when I look at gaming it is not what the vast majority are looking at right now. Games now days focus on the shiny, the new sword and armor and the new cool graphics. When at one time that was just a single asspect of gaming! When you look back at the games you are fond of from your past, like Pitfall for the Atari, or Final Fantasy 1 or 2; Batttletoads; Metroid; Legend of Zelda for the Nes, or even final fantasy 7 for the playstation. I am betting that those memories just do not center on getting the new sword or armor for your character (although for a certain percentage of the population it does). There was more involved in those games then just getting a cool new sword for Link or Cloud. There was the challenge, the thrill of victory and the great story. There was the moments that made you happy and made you sad that you can see in your mind when you think of final fantasy 7. Or the thrill of defeating Ganon for the first time in Zelda. All of these moments are being boiled down to the loot drop in games now. I would love to get my hands on the coding for WoW for a week and change one sever so no items drop in any instance or raid and see how many people actually do them. Change it so that you get the items from crafting vendors like guild wars that just have items you get from killing mobs around the world. I wonder how many raiding guilds in WOW would raid with out the shiny in there to make them come to the instance. Since that aspect of gaming was so successful with WoW and Diablo it seems like all of gaming is trying to get a piece of that pie. The days of games being made with a diverse center, is slowly fading to memory.
I am not bashing the people that like collecting in games and play games for that aspect. I am happy you like that, it is just sad to me that is what gaming has adopted at its center for its whole reason to exist. I can not count 10 games in the last 5 years that have all the aspects that made Final Fantasy great. Or gave me the found memories of Battletoads or Double Dragon. In the end it is the reason why I get burnt out on MMOs and bounce from one game to another, it is all about the shiny. So while I look forward to the day when another game like DAOC where the shiny is not the main point to come out, I do not see it happening anytime soon.
The biggest selling point of DAoC was the strong community. To me these bonds were forged through the long leveling process (which the OP suggests should be significantly reduced) so that should be considered for any sequel.
As for realm pride - sure, I think that was a real thing. I also played in setgroups and yes, that was more of an eSport than anthing else. But one has to realize that the game was more than just setgroup fights and this sense of comradierie and realm pride made up a lot of the 'e-cosystem' that was DAoC. Take away all the 'zergers', 'crafters' and 'casuals' and all you are left with is a hollow shell.
But I maintain that DAoC in todays market could never be more than a niche game. It did require a substantial willingness to cooperate and a good understanding of the mechanics to progress. Doesn't work well with the whole 'instant gratification' approach cultivated by post-WoW games.
Interesting article and some very good and varied comments, I have played DAOC pretty much from beta, its had some tremendous highs Darkness Falls & Shrouded Island's and some quite awful lows Trials Of Atlantis & New Frontiers But Mythic truly made a gem of a game when they came up with DAOC but like a lot of people have said I wouldn't trust them to do it again DAOC really was a one off.
DAOC was far from perfect at launch it had some major RvR balance issues due to there perhaps over ambitious class system which took them far too long to correct, and the grind was frustrating but at the same time it helped to form the Community, and the three realm aspect of the RvR helped to keep it bonded.
Anyhow DAOC is still limping on all though a much mutated version of the original and the RvR is still unmatched in my opinion, Thank fully they removed the god awful /level command which was in my mind one of the major internal contributions to its user base numbers dropping, you still get the odd influx of new players every now and again and the game is quite easy for them to get in to now.
I just dont think a sequel could survive in the modern MMO market with the huge cost involved and quite fickle user base it would be trying to appeal to, a major GFX over hull would be more beneficial and probably bring some new subs in and maybe get some older players back but even that would be somewhat of a financial gamble for BioWare Mythic.
Why does everyone think classes need to be balanced ... the best part of DoaC was that RvR was balanced for the 8 man group not the single toon. If you are a healer ... and come across a damage dealer then you should die...
Eight Man groups were never really balanced between the three realms to start with, and when they did get a nice balance Mythic messed around with the Realm ability's and messed up the sort of semi fragile balance that existed IMO any way.
The whole balancing issue was a bit more complicated, I think.
Yes, a good setup would stand a chance against any group from any realm, usually. But I think what people refer to are things like stealther balancing (Shadowzerker!), Archer balancing, and the traditional overpowered class with each expansion.
I remember vividly when Savages were released onto the world and would run around 2 hitting heros in full scale armor. True story. All those gank squads with 3 healers 3 savages ... and later we had Warlocks that could pretty much instant-kill entire groups with the right RAs and a decent healer-backup. Hib casters with stun spells, or thinkof of sorceres before their mezz was pimped versus instant-mezzing hibs and mids
So there were a lot of issues, but people sort of put up with it (not all, mind you).
Ok so first off...Ive read these forums for over 2 years...and never subscribed until i saw this topic...that says something.
DAOC, of all the 8 MMOs i have played, was by far the best. I would still be playing it now, except the classic servers are no more and there are like 14 people playing the game.
The thing that DOAC had that no other game did...was the bonuses to grouping up with other players. Bonus to exp and it made leveling much less painful. These new MMOs are all about soloing; not so fun to level. The community was GREAT because of this
PVP, omg it didnt have a timer on it. you could stay in the BGs for years and have loads of fun and thats just what i did.
You could have great year, ya it helped, but if you didnt have skill, you were dead.
I remember my minstril killing groups of 4 by myself. so much fun
DAOC2...ya, I would buy that
p.s. TOA did kill DAOC, you cant argue the truth
The classics are dead sadly, but there is currently 3339 on the Ywain cluster far from dead but a bit zergy.
Not sure if I agree on the whole 'reduce CC' issue.
I think CC was fine the way it was. Having better reflexes (i.e. a good bard, sorc or healer) and paying attention (spread out and quickly take down the CCer) was really important. But CC has already been nerfed since the early days, right? Back then you would stand mezzed for 60 secs if your group sucked and you had the wrong RAs... Then again, that's what made it exciting and challenging, to me anyway.
Each realm had ways of dealing with CC, too (group purge, SoS, a bunch of tanks with det5, etc).
I think that if they updated the interface (such as quest interface) to modern standards and made things a little more easy then i think we would have a WOW killer.
And i would love to have my DAOC back.
Its funny, i played the game for 5 years...Now when i play MMOs, i find myself saying "i wish this was more like how DAOC did it"
Yeah, that might be a bit zergy, in its hey day even the most populated DAOC servers had like 2500 people online at any one time, and on MLF where I played 1700 was the rule.
But it would be nice if DAOC could get a bit more attention and updates, might actually need to re-open a cluster.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Many people have pride in things that have no control over... race, country, etc. I find that type of pride to be silly. At least one has a choice in which realm they fight for.
I agree
CC MADE the game what it was. It made things count. Sure everyone hated being mezzed, thats why you had realm abilities, to counteract them.
CC made the game kind of like chess. People that knew how to play, did well....button mashers..well they died (IE a person mashing MEZZ while i have charge up)
Torak
I completely agree with you man, that is such a strong point! We dont need another part 2 all we needed was better graphics and get rid of all those extra zones that no one uses. After I left DAOC i went to EVE and stayed there for 5 years.
However I agree with many points Garett made too. MMO have gotten very watered down, I still remember fighting Anakin, the hibernia nightshade on the lancelot server. Stealthers hunting each other in the woods with knifes, Good times.
Kudos to everyone for posting great comments and bringing back good memories. Ultimately I don't think it would survive today, there are just too many MMO' out now but it was good to have been part of DAOC for 3 years.
Nemesiz
MrHooke
I’m going to agree with Coldren. Community and PvE are the bottom line. There are no current “community” oriented players in the current MMO market. I do miss that era though. Current marketable playing styles always win. If DAoC was released for the first time, in the current market and playing styles - it would fail. Hopes for DAoC2? I’m not holding my breathe, but I would try it in the hopes they could rekindle community oriented playing and get rid of that horrible grind work lvl 49-50. In my opinion that is were they began to drop the ball.. They lost many more players with ToA because of the same type of “grind“ work needed - it became monotonous.
TOA never killed DAOC, WOW did. Various records of player stats clearly show this. DAOC simply got old.
Every time I go back to DAOC to check it out, I always end up quitting not because of the game, rather the old/kludgey UI and movement controls.
IMO the way forward is a rebranded version of current DAOC but with an entirely revamped UI and movement controls/mechanics, and maybe some higher polygon models and environments.
The gameplay is already there, it just needs new window-dressing.
ps: if you had/have issues with DAOC CC, it means you're bad. DAOC CC and the hard interrupt system are what made DAOC's 8v8 so engaging.
You seem to be the only one that thinks that.
The UI is fully customizable (and has absolutely everything you could ever need, I have no idea what's clunky about the vanilla UI). In fact, it was the first MMO to have this, not WoW.
And the controls are also completely customizable as well, and more reponsive combat wise than any MMO I've played since (especially LotRO, ugh)
WoW is not even remotely the same kind of game that DAoC is, and frankly, at launch it didn't do anything better than DAoC did either.
It's very clear that /level 20 made the population stop increasing, ToA made the veterans leave/become disgruntled, they tried it, they didn't like it. Then New Frontiers launched, and that was the last straw. DAoC has been in a downward spiral since.
Most people that I know that did leave for WoW just came right back, as they'd been there and done that already.
You didn't have to play a tank who would get nuked to death, despite having the highest HP in the game, before purge even went off. Or purge mez just to get stunned.
The CC combined with the overpowered casters after ToA made tanks extinct in RVR.
I agree that CC was one of the components that gave a chess aspect to RvR. I also think the variety of classes (and three realms) in the game really played its part as well. Learning what to do against which classes and situations, was a big part of the fun for me.
The big one though, is community. Getting into a good PvE group and actually talking to the people in it, and getting to know them. Those are some of my fondest memories of the early days of the game.
On another note, as was mentioned in the article, there is something to be said for being able to recall a slew of names of people that I fought in RvR. Especially considering I never spoke a word to most of them. Except to say:
"Krendor says something in a language you dont understand!"
Unfortunately, I think those days are probably gone. The MMO crowd when DAoC released was a much more mature bunch. I was graduating high school when it came out, my Uncle told me to try it. I remember a lot of realm mates being suprised at my age. Today's market is a different beast.
With that said, here is another voice, asking for DAoC 2. It would probably be a niche market, but full of dedicated subscribers.
While I completely disagree with your WoW comment as it's wrong in every sense (ToA saw a loss of over half the playerbase almost immediately after it's release - but I was actually playing then so I doubt you were).
However, I do agree with the horribly clunky movement and combat flow. That, along with /stick and /follow in RvR (the dumbest ideas possible, worse than the idiotic minute long mezzing) keeps me from going back.
Your last statement is the most irritating, however. I wanted to play the game for large scale RvR, not 8 vs 8 elitist roaming groups. That's what the game was marketed on.
These issues are what made me absolutely hate the RvR and what it could have been opposed to what was produced.
DAOC was my first love. I played it for 4 years, and quit shortly after TOA came out. I would love to see a DAOC2, if it wasn't made by Mythic. After what they did to Warhammer, I'll not buy another Mythic made game ever.
My random thoughts...
DAOC is mostly perfect the way it is. What it does need is a substantial UI overhaul. I mean seriously, tooltips and not having to click special keys to view item properties please. The UI customization was a cool idea, but it didn't go far enough. Look at all the WoW mods out there, some of the most useful, graphically brilliant, stuff out there. So much so that Blizzard sees fit to implement some of the mods themselves (though usually not as good).
My opinion of what killed DAOC was a combination of things.. First, the /level 20/30 bullcrap. (The population was already in a downward spiral by this point but this didn't help) New players couldn't learn from more experienced players because there was no one to group with anymore. The experienced players just went to the capitol city and /leveled thier way to 20 or 30.
Secondly, TOA was a HUGE failure. Raiding is one thing.. Raiding on that scale was just rediculous. Encounters like that needed to be instanced.
Third, was the lack of keeping up with the industry. Mythic plans to put no more money into this game and will ride out the subscriptions until the last person cancels.
I for one absolutely LOVE DAOC, I miss it. I think it has one of the richest set of quests and characters in any game I have ever played. I loved the community (though I despise the VN boards). I loved the idea of RvR, and even participated in it. But honestly, PvE is why I play.. I will always remember the first time I saw a Salisbury giant, or got killed by a purple wisp at level 1 cause I didn't understand the con system yet. The tons of grave markers that littered the landscape.. DAOC was original, and one of the greatest games I've ever had the pleasure of playing. It's just too bad they can't do it again without effing it up.