April 2010 Producer's Letter - "RVR" on both sides on same server

Yes... Its officially out. 

You will be able to play both Destro and Order on the same server.  They are ofc makeing some lockdown rules so you can not switch any time you want - but it will still kill the true RVR game all together.  Not that it really ever was other than a bunch of unabalanced zerg.   

So.. one night we will take IC ... and next day we take Altdorf.  Yes.. this is the new" RVR" in WAR.

http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1086

In other words.. they have given up.  We will see 1-2 servers in total within next 6 months.

Comments

  • CinduatCinduat Shorewood, MNMember Posts: 83

    And I've officially stopped supporting this game... such failure.

    It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAMember Posts: 6,539

    Hmm.. now you can be the hero AND the villian... all on the SAME SERVER.


    image

  • gszebegszebe PMember CommonPosts: 214

    Originally posted by Deadalon

    Yes... Its officially out. 
    You will be able to play both Destro and Order on the same server.  They are ofc makeing some lockdown rules so you can not switch any time you want - but it will still kill the true RVR game all together.  Not that it really ever was other than a bunch of unabalanced zerg.   
    So.. one night we will take IC ... and next day we take Altdorf.  Yes.. this is the new" RVR" in WAR.
    http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1086
    In other words.. they have given up.  We will see 1-2 servers in total within next 6 months.

     

    I suppose you can see the contradiction between the only known fact of the matter and your assumption ("They are ofc making some lockdown rules so you can not switch any time you want" VS. "So.. one night we will take IC ... and next day we take Altdorf."), despite the fact that you CANNOT know what 'lockdown' will mean, which would be, well, IMPORTANT to know in that matter. Moreover, you can have apparently no idea about how this change will affect the population of a given server in real.

     

  • ElectriceyeElectriceye BMember UncommonPosts: 1,171

    No need to put a negative spin on everything. I mean I'm aware it's not positive, but you need to understand that they have really limited funds and a small dev team. Seeing as they can't add significant content, they work on and tweak what they already have to make it more enjoyable to the playerbase thus retaining them as long as possible, which in the end is what it's all about.

    image

  • MmocountMmocount Reno, NVMember Posts: 194

    It really depends how the lockout works.

     

    For Daoc, when they came out with this feature they said it'd be a 'long' lockout as well. Which was 10 or 12 hours or something, and got reduced into none at all as the game went along.

     

    It also depends highly on whether the lockout timer is 'upfront' or afterwards. It'll probably mean you can switch instantly as long as your lockout isn't up, rather than the lockout timer coming up when you chose to switch and you have to wait that long for you to be able to.

  • DeadalonDeadalon AkureyriMember Posts: 79

    Im sorry but this is NOT DAOC.  That game had diffrent RVR objectives and 3 factions. THis game doesn't. 

    Lockdowns or no lockdowns.  There WILL be a pattern of 1 night taking IC and the next Altdorf.  IF the lookdown is 2 days then the pattern will just be one night longer.  You can not prevent this from happening.  And its pretty easy to see beforehand what side is steamrolling each night by going on a free endless trial and see whats going on.

    THe thing that will be most affected tho... are SC... cause basicly this could mean 90% of the entire population beein on 1 faction each night. 

    DAOC was totally difrent on basic RVR systems.  Mythic is not gonna change anything in WAR (they dont have the manpower nor the money) to actually balance RVR and SC to these changes meaning even more unbalanced content than ever. 

  • ShastraShastra ParisMember Posts: 1,061

    Originally posted by Deadalon

    Yes... Its officially out. 
    You will be able to play both Destro and Order on the same server.  They are ofc makeing some lockdown rules so you can not switch any time you want - but it will still kill the true RVR game all together.  Not that it really ever was other than a bunch of unabalanced zerg.   
    So.. one night we will take IC ... and next day we take Altdorf.  Yes.. this is the new" RVR" in WAR.
    http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=1086
    In other words.. they have given up.  We will see 1-2 servers in total within next 6 months.

    Very very bad move; I am shocked really.

  • gszebegszebe PMember CommonPosts: 214

    Originally posted by Deadalon

    Lockdowns or no lockdowns.  There WILL be a pattern of 1 night taking IC and the next Altdorf.  IF the lookdown is 2 days then the pattern will just be one night longer.  You can not prevent this from happening.  And its pretty easy to see beforehand what side is steamrolling each night by going on a free endless trial and see whats going on.
    THe thing that will be most affected tho... are SC... cause basicly this could mean 90% of the entire population beein on 1 faction each night. 

    A simple question: how do you know that kind of things? 'Cause the first part is simple omniscient guessworking and fortunetelling (and you neglected the only slightly known fact again, i.e. lockdown WILL exist), and the second part is even more funny, since I play WAR, and I have no idea how many peeps play SCs whenever I'm online, and I know even less for a reason when I am offline...

  • DeadalonDeadalon AkureyriMember Posts: 79

    Originally posted by gszebe


    Originally posted by Deadalon


    Lockdowns or no lockdowns.  There WILL be a pattern of 1 night taking IC and the next Altdorf.  IF the lookdown is 2 days then the pattern will just be one night longer.  You can not prevent this from happening.  And its pretty easy to see beforehand what side is steamrolling each night by going on a free endless trial and see whats going on.
    THe thing that will be most affected tho... are SC... cause basicly this could mean 90% of the entire population beein on 1 faction each night. 

    A simple question: how do you know that kind of things? 'Cause the first part is simple omniscient guessworking and fortunetelling (and you neglected the only slightly known fact again, i.e. lockdown WILL exist), and the second part is even more funny, since I play WAR, and I have no idea how many peeps play SCs whenever I'm online, and I know even less for a reason when I am offline... Amazing skills, dude!

    You dont have to be a genious to understand the basics of WAR mecanics.  Those that are this "smart" will understand it.  Not my fault you can't.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSMember Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by Deadalon

    Im sorry but this is NOT DAOC.  That game had diffrent RVR objectives and 3 factions. THis game doesn't. 
    Lockdowns or no lockdowns.  There WILL be a pattern of 1 night taking IC and the next Altdorf.  IF the lookdown is 2 days then the pattern will just be one night longer.  You can not prevent this from happening.  And its pretty easy to see beforehand what side is steamrolling each night by going on a free endless trial and see whats going on.
    THe thing that will be most affected tho... are SC... cause basicly this could mean 90% of the entire population beein on 1 faction each night. 
    DAOC was totally difrent on basic RVR systems.  Mythic is not gonna change anything in WAR (they dont have the manpower nor the money) to actually balance RVR and SC to these changes meaning even more unbalanced content than ever. 

    If they can redesign the city sieges (as apparently, they have done), they can redesign the RvR campaign.

    Whether they intend to (or even see a need to), is another matter.

    I agree that allowing characters on both factions on one server is a bad idea, and likely done to allow closing all but one server on each side of the Atlantic.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • gszebegszebe PMember CommonPosts: 214

    Originally posted by Deadalon


    Originally posted by gszebe



    Originally posted by Deadalon


    Lockdowns or no lockdowns.  There WILL be a pattern of 1 night taking IC and the next Altdorf.  IF the lookdown is 2 days then the pattern will just be one night longer.  You can not prevent this from happening.  And its pretty easy to see beforehand what side is steamrolling each night by going on a free endless trial and see whats going on.
    THe thing that will be most affected tho... are SC... cause basicly this could mean 90% of the entire population beein on 1 faction each night. 

    A simple question: how do you know that kind of things? 'Cause the first part is simple omniscient guessworking and fortunetelling (and you neglected the only slightly known fact again, i.e. lockdown WILL exist), and the second part is even more funny, since I play WAR, and I have no idea how many peeps play SCs whenever I'm online, and I know even less for a reason when I am offline... Amazing skills, dude!

    You dont have to be a genious to understand the basics of WAR mecanics.  Those that are this "smart" will understand it.  Not my fault you can't.

    Thank you, I'm glad you are here to bring some light into my mind... Maybe, I'm not "smart" in your standard, but thankfully I can recognize an opinion based on facts and an opinion based on guessworking. It's not my fault that yours are in the second group, and I hope that next time you will give a factual base to support your opinion, or at least you'll be able to answer a simple question without trolling.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAMember UncommonPosts: 5,407

    So how is this going to matter to anything? I mean it makes bugger all difference what side you're on as it is.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by gszebe


    Originally posted by Deadalon


    Lockdowns or no lockdowns.  There WILL be a pattern of 1 night taking IC and the next Altdorf.  IF the lookdown is 2 days then the pattern will just be one night longer.  You can not prevent this from happening.  And its pretty easy to see beforehand what side is steamrolling each night by going on a free endless trial and see whats going on.
    THe thing that will be most affected tho... are SC... cause basicly this could mean 90% of the entire population beein on 1 faction each night. 

    A simple question: how do you know that kind of things? 'Cause the first part is simple omniscient guessworking and fortunetelling (and you neglected the only slightly known fact again, i.e. lockdown WILL exist), and the second part is even more funny, since I play WAR, and I have no idea how many peeps play SCs whenever I'm online, and I know even less for a reason when I am offline...

    While I have no way of knowing for sure what will happen with this change, it is very easy to see what deadalon is suggesting becoming the reality.

    This is a problem the developers have faced with changes in warhammer for a long time now.  It seems with every change they make, players drive through the huge obvious loopholes in the design logic.  Putting incentives on keeps produced trading keeps and avoiding rvr.  Wasn't that supposted to boost rvr activities?

    Land of the dead, again had the opposite effect of its intent.  Less rvr competition.

     

    Based on what mythic has produced in the past I can not see any reason for history to not repeat itself with yet another half thought out idea being implemented before seeing serious testing. 

    Yet maybe it will turn out to be flawless.  There is a chance for anything to happen I guess.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSMember Posts: 5,056

    Originally posted by Daffid011
    While I have no way of knowing for sure what will happen with this change, it is very easy to see what deadalon is suggesting becoming the reality.
    This is a problem the developers have faced with changes in warhammer for a long time now.  It seems with every change they make, players drive through the huge obvious loopholes in the design logic.  Putting incentives on keeps produced trading keeps and avoiding rvr.  Wasn't that supposted to boost rvr activities?
    Land of the dead, again had the opposite effect of its intent.  Less rvr competition.

    Despite what they said repeatedly - I think they had no intention of diverting large numbers from the scenarios to open RvR. They knew their engine could not handle the numbers that would result.

    Mark Jacobs said (about three months after release) they were going to make RvR the way to level up - yet Mythic never did the one simple thing that would have accomplished this - boost xp and renown gain to the same rate as in scenarios.

    They never intended Open RvR to be the main activity in the game.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • gszebegszebe PMember CommonPosts: 214

    I can agree that IF the whole thing will be poorly implemented, then it will make more mess than any good for sure, and it can even kill the game for many. But, unfortuntelly, at this time we have simply no idea about how long the lockout is going to be, and how the actual version will affect the actual players in any given time on different servers.

    I can agree, ofc, as well that there were more than one bad design decisons by Mythic in the past. But it still tells nothing about the future's upcoming facts (which are still non-facts, only assumptions) in my book. (Just for the record: I'm a historian, so I'm really aware how past can be connected to the future, or to the present.)

    And, finally there is a difference between 'suggesting' in a positive way (which smart enough to suppose that it can be proved to be wrong anytime, and it can call forth a valid negative 'suggestion' anytime as well), and 'guessworking' based on negative presumptions and interpretations of teleologically selected 'facts'. 

  • neonwireneonwire OxfordMember Posts: 1,787

    Excellent news! This makes the RvR conflict in this game even more pointless than it already was.....which will hopefully cause more players to quit......which will in turn speed up the time it takes for this game to close.......which will in turn open up an opportunity for another games company to use the IP to make a decent Warhammer fantasy mmo. I've always wondered what a good well designed Warhammer fantasy mmo would be like image

  • SteamRangerSteamRanger Great Northwest, WAMember UncommonPosts: 920

    I'm starting to think that Mythic writes all their ideas for WAR on pieces of wax paper, encases them in globs of jello, then throw the jello at a wall and use the ideas that stick.

    "Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
    "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift

  • ShadewalkerShadewalker HampshireMember Posts: 299

    I don't really know whether Deadalon's doomsayer predictions will turn out to be justified or not, and care even less. However, I do know that he resembles the boy who cried wolf in that he is incapable of writing a positive post about any game whatsoever and therefore it isn't possible to take anything he says remotely seriously.

    Given the circumstances in which this decision has been taken it would seem to me to be a pretty straightforward and worthwhile one, whether it heralds more server merges who can say at this stage. It's certainly worth a try, the game can't do any worse than it is already doing.

  • DeadalonDeadalon AkureyriMember Posts: 79

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter



    Despite what they said repeatedly - I think they had no intention of diverting large numbers from the scenarios to open RvR. They knew their engine could not handle the numbers that would result.
    Mark Jacobs said (about three months after release) they were going to make RvR the way to level up - yet Mythic never did the one simple thing that would have accomplished this - boost xp and renown gain to the same rate as in scenarios.
    They never intended Open RvR to be the main activity in the game.

    I think he said that mainly because they realised they would not be able to fix the PVE issues the game had.  They had to find a way to allow ppl to progress without having to suffer through that nightmare =)

    I will stand by my "guesswork" here.   This can never be good for RVR - And this can never be good for Scenarios.   So they might fix PVE content ?  :P

  • DeadalonDeadalon AkureyriMember Posts: 79

    Originally posted by Shadewalker

    I don't really know whether Deadalon's doomsayer predictions will turn out to be justified or not, and care even less. However, I do know that he resembles the boy who cried wolf in that he is incapable of writing a positive post about any game whatsoever and therefore it isn't possible to take anything he says remotely seriously.
    Given the circumstances in which this decision has been taken it would seem to me to be a pretty straightforward and worthwhile one, whether it heralds more server merges who can say at this stage. It's certainly worth a try, the game can't do any worse than it is already doing.

    I write alot of positve post about games.  I have been enjoying Anno 1404 alot past few weeks.  Before that Mass Effect 2 was a good fun.  MMO wise.... I might have to go back to WOW and level another character just to enjoy old Vanilla for the last time. 

    Plenty of good things in this world.  Some better than others tho. - and some alot worse =)

    Whats best for WAR ?  Lets say that Mythic defently does not have the answer to that.  Cause if they did .. they might actually have been able to at LEAST maintain the playerbase of the game.  I think Im just one of many that came to the conclution.  that  "NO.. Im not paying for this..."  For me it was when I saw my white lion running beside me in the air when filying from Altdorf .. just minutes after I had to relogg out of a frozen Phoenix Gate  scenario. 

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAMember Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by neonwire.....which will in turn open up an opportunity for another games company to use the IP to make a decent Warhammer fantasy mmo. I've always wondered what a good well designed Warhammer fantasy mmo would be like

    Closest thing you'll get.


    But the whole high fantasy "orcs vs elves" MMO with Warhammer is dead and buried. Smart companies aren't going to try and challenge Blizzard anymore on that front.


    No company with the money and resources to make a MMO would touch this high fantasy MMO style with a ten foot pole ever again and any company that would agree to do so probably would not be up to snuff for GW's standards.


    Say goodbye to catapults, blunderbusses and worg mounts. Say hello to rocket launchers and jetpacks.

  • gszebegszebe PMember CommonPosts: 214

    Originally posted by Shadewalker

    I don't really know whether Deadalon's doomsayer predictions will turn out to be justified or not, and care even less. However, I do know that he resembles the boy who cried wolf in that he is incapable of writing a positive post about any game whatsoever and therefore it isn't possible to take anything he says remotely seriously.
    Given the circumstances in which this decision has been taken it would seem to me to be a pretty straightforward and worthwhile one, whether it heralds more server merges who can say at this stage. It's certainly worth a try, the game can't do any worse than it is already doing.

    Exactly.

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAMember Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by Shadewalker It's certainly worth a try, the game can't do any worse than it is already doing.

    Sure it can.

    Mythic is always raising the bar with 3-star talent and 5-star drive.



    Paul Barnett:

    I hire less talented believers over talented heretics every time. Three-star ability with five-star drive is how you want it. The other way around leads you to hell."

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