When you make soloing more rewarding and efficient than grouping, and when you make grinding quests far easier than any other form of advancement, you only give the ILLUSION of choice, how can you not understand that? Soloing has always been an option in just about every MMO, only in the past 4 years or so have companies been making grouping far less rewarding than soloing, and giving no reason to group.
There won't be any groups if the "option" to solo is vastly more appealing than grouping.
What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
In a game without downtime, and without a group XP bonus, soloing is more efficient, cause you don't have to find other people.
What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
I really have no pity for people like garvon. All they want is to maximize xp per hour and cant see anything else. Not even fun. They are incapable of having fun imo. I joined groups all the time in lotro, and most of those times I had nothing to gain. And you know what? It was always fun. So people like him can wander the mmo world forever without a game they like for all I care.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
As much as I'm an advocate for forced grouping in MMOs this change was actually necessary in LotRO. With the way the storyline quests were designed there was no real incentive to help others through them once you'd completed them yourself (and many of the quests were really really time consuming which further discouraged going back to help others). These changes only apply to Vol 1 at the moment anyway, they'll likely make Vol 2 soloable when the playerbase moves on a bit into Vol 3.
I agree with you, I play Lord of the Rings Online - currently on a break, will be back when there's a new update - and those old Book quests were impossible to do because nobody wanted to help. And sure, adding a way to do it on your own is a good idea in principle, but the major problem with this game has always been the way it was designed. The path is a direct A to Z with no real reason to do anything else, and if nobody is next to you on that path, as in they don't have the same quest, then getting anyone to help will be a lesson in extreme patience.
The only time it deviates from this path is when they give you a number of quests for one area, such as multiple quests for the Great Barrow. They should have stuck with that idea, just have a bunch of quests for The Shire or Breeland and let the player decide how to approach them. Instead it's way too linear and is a solo experience almost the whole journey.
What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
I really have no pity for people like garvon. All they want is to maximize xp per hour and cant see anything else. Not even fun. They are incapable of having fun imo. I joined groups all the time in lotro, and most of those times I had nothing to gain.
Uh? What? What the hell are you on about? Where did I ever say that I'm only concerned about XP/hour? Nowhere. Stop making horrible jumps in logic. The point of the post flew right over your head.
Grouping just doesn't exist in games where there is NO REASON to group. People will usually take the easy way out. I played LotRO from alpha to months after launch, and people just flat out didn't group unless there was a group level step on a quest to be done, and then the group only lasted as long as the quest did. No one talked, no one socialized, why bother? You're just all gonna go your seperate ways in a few minutes.
It was nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find any groups because well... why would anyone group?
What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
I think you just answered your own question there. "You are not getting anything better or more appealing soloing than doing it in group format.". So grouping doesn't acheive anything more than soloing. Hence, people just solo, because you get the same result as if you were grouped - thus they've made soloing more rewarding.
What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
I really have no pity for people like garvon. All they want is to maximize xp per hour and cant see anything else. Not even fun. They are incapable of having fun imo. I joined groups all the time in lotro, and most of those times I had nothing to gain.
Uh? What? What the hell are you on about? Where did I ever say that I'm only concerned about XP/hour? Nowhere. Stop making horrible jumps in logic. The point of the post flew right over your head.
Grouping just doesn't exist in games where there is NO REASON to group. People will usually take the easy way out. I played LotRO from alpha to months after launch, and people just flat out didn't group unless there was a group level step on a quest to be done, and then the group only lasted as long as the quest did. No one talked, no one socialized, why bother? You're just all gonna go your seperate ways in a few minutes.
It was nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find any groups because well... why would anyone group?
I gave an example, my example. I had plenty of fun in groups in lotro while having nothing to gain, same with other people in the guild I was in. So if other people are having fun in groups just for the sake of playing in a group, then I think you should entertain the possibility thayt the problem is in fact you, not the game thats not giving you 10x the XP for being grouped.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
I really have no pity for people like garvon. All they want is to maximize xp per hour and cant see anything else. Not even fun. They are incapable of having fun imo. I joined groups all the time in lotro, and most of those times I had nothing to gain.
Uh? What? What the hell are you on about? Where did I ever say that I'm only concerned about XP/hour? Nowhere. Stop making horrible jumps in logic. The point of the post flew right over your head.
Grouping just doesn't exist in games where there is NO REASON to group. People will usually take the easy way out. I played LotRO from alpha to months after launch, and people just flat out didn't group unless there was a group level step on a quest to be done, and then the group only lasted as long as the quest did. No one talked, no one socialized, why bother? You're just all gonna go your seperate ways in a few minutes.
It was nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find any groups because well... why would anyone group?
I gave an example, my example. I had plenty of fun in groups in lotro while having nothing to gain, same with other people in the guild I was in. So if other people are having fun in groups just for the sake of playing in a group, then I think you should entertain the possibility thayt the problem is in fact you, not the game thats not giving you 10x the XP for being grouped.
Yup. The point has flown over your head twice.
Once again, just in case third time's the charm. I don't care about xp/h, I don't min max, I play MMOs for the social experience. Most modern gamers don't, hence why they enjoy quest driven gameplay, instancing, and all that jazz.
In games where soloing is more rewarding than grouping (almost any MMO past 2004) groups are almost never found, and if they are, they last for about a half hour. I'd love to group with people. I don't care about the rewards, I just like playing with other people like I did back when MMOs were good. I'd meet new people, chat during down time, explore random dungeons and ACTUALLY SEE OTHER PLAYS IN THEM and have grand, 4 hour long adventures.
That's gone. Vast majority of people won't group, because why should they? Easier to just solo, and its not like any other element of the game encourages social interaction.
I had heard that Lotro was more solo friendly and so I resubbed for three months. I just cancelled my sub and probably won't play out the last two weeks of my sub.
Caveat: Lotro is a very wonderful game. Colorful, with an engaging epic story. The list below are just my pet peeves.
I am a devoted soloer. Group quests can be fun, but I oh so loathe having to group to accomplish stuff or see content. The end result of this is: if it requires a group, I won't see it.
Travel: my god, it's tedious in this game. Even with a mount, it takes a while to get around. For one thing, it's far too easy for the zillions of mobs to pull you off your mount. Even including all the various ports (with their far-too-long cooldowns), travel is a pain. There are so many unpassable hills and cliffs and such that you have to take the long way around for everything.
Storage: this game has a wonderful crafting system but charges you up the wazoo for extra storage after a certain point. With so many specialty items and crafting materials, I was constantly juggling stuff for lack of space.
Mundane quests: along with some wonderful epic quests, there are so many bland "kill x" or "gather x" quests in this game at all levels.
Combat: combat is very slow. Couple this with a mob every ten feet and everything becomes a slog. Many quests require you to kill a boss, and the boss is usually buried behind walls thick with mobs. I found this reminded me of raiding where you have to kill a zillion trash mobs to get to the one mob you actually want.
End game: Since the end game is pretty much all raiding/grouping, for me it might as well not exist.
While I'm aware someone could argue that some of my issues are self-inflicted, I doubt I will return unless it gets a WHOLE lot more solo friendly than it is now. And this seems unlikely as there are already people complaining it's too soloable as is.
What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
I think you just answered your own question there. "You are not getting anything better or more appealing soloing than doing it in group format.". So grouping doesn't acheive anything more than soloing. Hence, people just solo, because you get the same result as if you were grouped - thus they've made soloing more rewarding.
So you mean to tell me that people are just running around doing their own thing in LoTRO (or any solo friendly game) all the time everytime? Turbine has not taken away any group content! It's an option/choice to solo.
Look we both pay the same amount for a monthly sub to our MMO of choice (and for the sake of this thread it's LoTRO). If you want to group up with friends or make new ones grouping then go for it, I have absolutely no problems with grouping. But if I want to solo because I only have a few hours a week to log-in then why shouldn't I be able to do that epic dungeon I hear everybody talking about without having to worry about finding/getting a group. It's all on a level playing field. But if for some reason you feel because you group you should get better loot or xp than the solo crowd then that's just be a bit eliteist.
However I don't have a problem with getting better rewards if you want to group. Just let me be able to have my fun solo if I so choose.
I do respect your opinions though. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...
What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
I think you just answered your own question there. "You are not getting anything better or more appealing soloing than doing it in group format.". So grouping doesn't acheive anything more than soloing. Hence, people just solo, because you get the same result as if you were grouped - thus they've made soloing more rewarding.
So you mean to tell me that people are just running around doing their own thing in LoTRO (or any solo friendly game) all the time everytime? Turbine has not taken away any group content! It's an option/choice to solo.
Look we both pay the same amount for a monthly sub to our MMO of choice (and for the sake of this thread it's LoTRO). If you want to group up with friends or make new ones grouping then go for i
Again, the point seems to have been missed.
In games where it is MORE viable to solo than to group, groups are rare to nonexistant. So telling us to "go on, go off and group if you like grouping so much." WE CAN'T because there is no one to group with, because they're all too busy soloing, because its the fastest way, and there are no mechanics in game to reward anyone for being social.
I'm still BAFFLED how you make an MMO any more solo friendly than LotRO is.
When does it stop being an MMO?
Where did you get the idea that MMO means grouping? The first, and some of the best MMOs were all solo - Lineage, UO. People grouped because they needed the numbers for safety not because of some artificial grouping mechanism that was popularized in EQ and solidified as the default in WoW.
I'm baffled that people need to have a pre-defined role template setup for them to accomplish content together. I'm even more baffled that people have extrapolated that it deserved a superior reward system. In old school MMOs good gear was just that and it didn't matter if you got it solo or by grouping up with others to make it safer or faster. When did this limited group-only mentality invade MMOs?
Yes yes, we're both from the same ilk, I know all that already. However, in today's MMO scene, most gamers are fresh from WoW and other solo focused games. They won't group without reason to do so. So the game has to provide a reason to group to get the ball rolling.
When a game is quest based, instanced, and faster to solo through than group through... well really, is it even an MMO anymore?
What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
I think you just answered your own question there. "You are not getting anything better or more appealing soloing than doing it in group format.". So grouping doesn't acheive anything more than soloing. Hence, people just solo, because you get the same result as if you were grouped - thus they've made soloing more rewarding.
So you mean to tell me that people are just running around doing their own thing in LoTRO (or any solo friendly game) all the time everytime? Turbine has not taken away any group content! It's an option/choice to solo.
Look we both pay the same amount for a monthly sub to our MMO of choice (and for the sake of this thread it's LoTRO). If you want to group up with friends or make new ones grouping then go for i
Again, the point seems to have been missed.
In games where it is MORE viable to solo than to group, groups are rare to nonexistant. So telling us to "go on, go off and group if you like grouping so much." WE CAN'T because there is no one to group with, because they're all too busy soloing, because its the fastest way, and there are no mechanics in game to reward anyone for being social.
But that's the issue isn't it?
Being social IS its own reward.
the problem is that players have somehow warped their game play experience in response to how developers have made content.
For example. A developer makes a drop a rare drop off of a boss. Instead of players trying the boss, not getting it and then saying "well, next time I try it perhaps I'll get lucky" they just run it OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN".
Though I do get that LOTRO's questlines are a bit variable when needing a group. Having a quest part where you need to talk to one person just seems silly in a group. Totally understand this.
They need to even out their questlines and have it where there are two different experiences. One where it's harder in a group and one where it is manageable solo. Sort of like what they did with DDO.
But there are group quests in LOTRO and all of book one can still be done with a group.
You would think that with all the players who seem pro group they would just make a kinship and actually group for the group stuff.
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What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
I think you just answered your own question there. "You are not getting anything better or more appealing soloing than doing it in group format.". So grouping doesn't acheive anything more than soloing. Hence, people just solo, because you get the same result as if you were grouped - thus they've made soloing more rewarding.
So you mean to tell me that people are just running around doing their own thing in LoTRO (or any solo friendly game) all the time everytime? Turbine has not taken away any group content! It's an option/choice to solo.
Look we both pay the same amount for a monthly sub to our MMO of choice (and for the sake of this thread it's LoTRO). If you want to group up with friends or make new ones grouping then go for i
Again, the point seems to have been missed.
In games where it is MORE viable to solo than to group, groups are rare to nonexistant. So telling us to "go on, go off and group if you like grouping so much." WE CAN'T because there is no one to group with, because they're all too busy soloing, because its the fastest way, and there are no mechanics in game to reward anyone for being social.
Nope no point missed by me. I was spot on with my opinion. But perhaps you're missing something. I stated several times that there is still grouping in LoTRO! Jesus, just Google up all the kins(guilds) in that game. Join one of the multitude that are out there and group till you hearts content.
I guess the bottom line here for you and I are you enjoy grouping and I enjoy the choice to do either and I hope we both find a game that gives us that.
Originally posted by Fuerchtegott Though the intentions were good this article has almost zero informational value:
- the devs like the Warden Class --> so what? - New player experience and solo gaming is improved --> what about the high lvl players? - there will be updates and festivals in the future --> haven't there been in the past? How about telling us what they plan for the updates? - facebook and iphone apps? --> What if i don't own an Iphone and do not want to be on facebook? Don't make the metagame focus of the development. I pay for game content not IPhone apps.
There is no meat to the bones.
Edit: I play and enjoy Lotro.
^^^AGREE! I love the game and play it too, but this article/interview was pathetically lacking any REAL information. I personally hate it when we aren't given a skeleton or basics of where development is going next in the game. Just saying "more" is coming "soon" drives me nuts. To be fair though, all of these MMO developers pull this crap. I probably wouldn't care if there were a few more MMORPGs I could bounce around and play while waiting, but currently, there isn't.
Where did you get the idea that MMO means grouping?
Oh, I don't know, probably because it's a multiplayer game. Do you know of any multiplayer games that you play alone in? Modern Warfare! Nope, got team mates. Left 4 Dead! Ah no, got team mates that you have to work with. I can't think of any off the top of my head.
And you seem to be missing the RPG part. Roleplay Game. Ever tried roleplaying alone? You look like a lunatic talking to yourself.
So you mean to tell me that people are just running around doing their own thing in LoTRO (or any solo friendly game) all the time everytime?
Hmm, mostly, yeah. End game might have a bit of grouping going on, but here's a task for you: Make a new toon and level it up, asking for a group along the way. Let's see how you do.
Where did you get the idea that MMO means grouping?
Oh, I don't know, probably because it's a multiplayer game. Do you know of any multiplayer games that you play alone in? Modern Warfare! Nope, got team mates. Left 4 Dead! Ah no, got team mates that you have to work with. I can't think of any off the top of my head.
And you seem to be missing the RPG part. Roleplay Game. Ever tried roleplaying alone? You look like a lunatic talking to yourself.
A multi player game means multiple players. How one takes advantage of that should be by their choice. But then this thread devolves into a solo vs grouping thread.
It can be taken to the nth degree where the crafter rarely groups but sells their wares to players face to face. Of course, games with auction houses sort of curtail this time honored tradition.
And if these games are supposed to be mini worlds then it stands to reason that each individual will socialize in a way that feels natural to them.
Let's put it this way, I'm a soloer and I group more than you would think. I don't go looking for groups. If the kin is doing something and I have time I'll join. If. I'm in an area and someone asks for help, I'll help. Even if they are very low lvl and no one is answering their group request.
Because that feels natural to me. But sitting around surfing the net while I spam LFG only to then get someone who feels that they want to dictate what gear you should have and what traits you should have so that it optimizes the session is not to my taste at all. I'd rather wipe a few times with a relaxed group of people than group with total control freaks.
mmo's are about people playing together in a way that feels right for the players. Not everyone has to be in a group all the time yet they can still enjoy the game world.
but we argue this all the time on these forums.
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I am a Founder, played in both the beta and the MoM beta, and purchased a lifetime sub just after MoM's release (which was a HUGE mistake), and was founder/leader of a fair-sized Fellowship. After MoM launched, LOTRO started it's dumbing-down strategy which is heralded once again as being such a great move by Turbine in this article. And as for listening to the player base, the Devs have a VERY selective ear to put it mildly. Its a shame that such a great game took the path that it did. I stopped playing around this time last year. Many of the promises that were made during the first year have still not been fullfilled, and after extensive discussion with a few Devs in the forums, the conclusion is that they probably never will be - filling in vacant areas of the map, improving the horrid housing, adding more fluff activities like fishing (which has needed an overhaul for ages now), a revamp of the ancient UI, more thought and developement of the festivals (which are often buggy and slapped together as though they were an after-thought), to name just a few.
I will probably go back someday simply because I have been a fan of Tolkien and The Lord of the Rings for most of my life (and that's a LONG time ) and because I actually do miss the game for what it used to be and could have been, but there is nothing in this article that does a thing for me.
If they really cared about community input they wouldn't be churning out this shit they call festivals. How about something unique instead of grab ass with the NPCs for 3 straight years and a horse race. They tried a maze one time and that was about as truly epic as watching paint dry. They could be making community events ala Warhammer's public quests something at least fun to take part of instead you are stuck with a dialog simulator, a horse racing nightmare that doesn't end, and a dance off that makes Frodo blush. Not to mention all for the same grand prize of another horse skin...jesus h christ.
[[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button. Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
I would like to see more pvp options , maybe a second area outside the Ettenmoors or maybe a pvp system similar to the skirmishes .
They did just have one of those dev feedback threads where they ask the one thing you would like if you could make a change to monster play. So here's to hoping.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I like the fact that Turbine is making LotRO more solo/smaller-group friendly, but -- imo -- groups of 4 for the instances are still too big. I really wish this game offered something along the lines of DDO to allow solo players to play through instance content. It'd be awesome to have choice for a LotRO dungeon akin to those offered in DDO: solo, normal, use of hirelings, etc.
The fact that they are making the epic quest line soloable is admirable and wise; I'd just like to see them move farther in this general direction -- at least for all of the Moria/Shadows of Angmar content, areas where the player population is rather sparse. Rather than buffing characters (Inspired Greatness), however, I'd sooner see them go in an NPC/henchmen direction, since that is more in keeping with the idea of LotRO, i.e., a small fellowship. Something along the lines of Guild Wars-style heroes to round out your party would be really great.
I just tried LOTRO again after being away for a long time. Still a decent game.
Main reason i will not subscribe past the free 30 days i got with the latest deal, is same as why i quit last time.
I end up spending more time moving stuff around to my characters and house, and bank vaults than playing in the end.
Lack of sufficent storage for a game that needs so much room to hold all the different crafting items needed, just gets old so fast for me.
The crafting in the game is pretty decent, but the trying to store all the items you need for all the crafting proffessions is a losing battle. You end up playing mail tag, IE: sending stuff back and forth in the mail system since you will never have enough storage space to keep all the crafting materials you will end up needing.
Well its all interesting to read. More of the same. Improved new player experiance. lets focus on geting new players while leaving the vets to wonder why the game is going downhill. So much for doing anything for your veteran players and tryin gto retain them. We can see where the game is headed lets try to grab the new kids on the block.
I notice not one word of radiance, or LI legendary weapons was even announced.
OH well so nothing really new is going on in lotro.
Comments
In a game without downtime, and without a group XP bonus, soloing is more efficient, cause you don't have to find other people.
I really have no pity for people like garvon. All they want is to maximize xp per hour and cant see anything else. Not even fun. They are incapable of having fun imo. I joined groups all the time in lotro, and most of those times I had nothing to gain. And you know what? It was always fun. So people like him can wander the mmo world forever without a game they like for all I care.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
As much as I'm an advocate for forced grouping in MMOs this change was actually necessary in LotRO. With the way the storyline quests were designed there was no real incentive to help others through them once you'd completed them yourself (and many of the quests were really really time consuming which further discouraged going back to help others). These changes only apply to Vol 1 at the moment anyway, they'll likely make Vol 2 soloable when the playerbase moves on a bit into Vol 3.
I agree with you, I play Lord of the Rings Online - currently on a break, will be back when there's a new update - and those old Book quests were impossible to do because nobody wanted to help. And sure, adding a way to do it on your own is a good idea in principle, but the major problem with this game has always been the way it was designed. The path is a direct A to Z with no real reason to do anything else, and if nobody is next to you on that path, as in they don't have the same quest, then getting anyone to help will be a lesson in extreme patience.
The only time it deviates from this path is when they give you a number of quests for one area, such as multiple quests for the Great Barrow. They should have stuck with that idea, just have a bunch of quests for The Shire or Breeland and let the player decide how to approach them. Instead it's way too linear and is a solo experience almost the whole journey.
Uh? What? What the hell are you on about? Where did I ever say that I'm only concerned about XP/hour? Nowhere. Stop making horrible jumps in logic. The point of the post flew right over your head.
Grouping just doesn't exist in games where there is NO REASON to group. People will usually take the easy way out. I played LotRO from alpha to months after launch, and people just flat out didn't group unless there was a group level step on a quest to be done, and then the group only lasted as long as the quest did. No one talked, no one socialized, why bother? You're just all gonna go your seperate ways in a few minutes.
It was nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find any groups because well... why would anyone group?
What are you talking about? Where are they making it more rewarding for soloing in LoTRO? You are not getting anything better or more appealing solong than doing it in group format. And please explain how it's more efficient to solo. More convenient, yes.
I think you just answered your own question there. "You are not getting anything better or more appealing soloing than doing it in group format.". So grouping doesn't acheive anything more than soloing. Hence, people just solo, because you get the same result as if you were grouped - thus they've made soloing more rewarding.
I gave an example, my example. I had plenty of fun in groups in lotro while having nothing to gain, same with other people in the guild I was in. So if other people are having fun in groups just for the sake of playing in a group, then I think you should entertain the possibility thayt the problem is in fact you, not the game thats not giving you 10x the XP for being grouped.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Yup. The point has flown over your head twice.
Once again, just in case third time's the charm. I don't care about xp/h, I don't min max, I play MMOs for the social experience. Most modern gamers don't, hence why they enjoy quest driven gameplay, instancing, and all that jazz.
In games where soloing is more rewarding than grouping (almost any MMO past 2004) groups are almost never found, and if they are, they last for about a half hour. I'd love to group with people. I don't care about the rewards, I just like playing with other people like I did back when MMOs were good. I'd meet new people, chat during down time, explore random dungeons and ACTUALLY SEE OTHER PLAYS IN THEM and have grand, 4 hour long adventures.
That's gone. Vast majority of people won't group, because why should they? Easier to just solo, and its not like any other element of the game encourages social interaction.
I had heard that Lotro was more solo friendly and so I resubbed for three months. I just cancelled my sub and probably won't play out the last two weeks of my sub.
Caveat: Lotro is a very wonderful game. Colorful, with an engaging epic story. The list below are just my pet peeves.
I am a devoted soloer. Group quests can be fun, but I oh so loathe having to group to accomplish stuff or see content. The end result of this is: if it requires a group, I won't see it.
Travel: my god, it's tedious in this game. Even with a mount, it takes a while to get around. For one thing, it's far too easy for the zillions of mobs to pull you off your mount. Even including all the various ports (with their far-too-long cooldowns), travel is a pain. There are so many unpassable hills and cliffs and such that you have to take the long way around for everything.
Storage: this game has a wonderful crafting system but charges you up the wazoo for extra storage after a certain point. With so many specialty items and crafting materials, I was constantly juggling stuff for lack of space.
Mundane quests: along with some wonderful epic quests, there are so many bland "kill x" or "gather x" quests in this game at all levels.
Combat: combat is very slow. Couple this with a mob every ten feet and everything becomes a slog. Many quests require you to kill a boss, and the boss is usually buried behind walls thick with mobs. I found this reminded me of raiding where you have to kill a zillion trash mobs to get to the one mob you actually want.
End game: Since the end game is pretty much all raiding/grouping, for me it might as well not exist.
While I'm aware someone could argue that some of my issues are self-inflicted, I doubt I will return unless it gets a WHOLE lot more solo friendly than it is now. And this seems unlikely as there are already people complaining it's too soloable as is.
I'm still BAFFLED how you make an MMO any more solo friendly than LotRO is.
When does it stop being an MMO?
So you mean to tell me that people are just running around doing their own thing in LoTRO (or any solo friendly game) all the time everytime? Turbine has not taken away any group content! It's an option/choice to solo.
Look we both pay the same amount for a monthly sub to our MMO of choice (and for the sake of this thread it's LoTRO). If you want to group up with friends or make new ones grouping then go for it, I have absolutely no problems with grouping. But if I want to solo because I only have a few hours a week to log-in then why shouldn't I be able to do that epic dungeon I hear everybody talking about without having to worry about finding/getting a group. It's all on a level playing field. But if for some reason you feel because you group you should get better loot or xp than the solo crowd then that's just be a bit eliteist.
However I don't have a problem with getting better rewards if you want to group. Just let me be able to have my fun solo if I so choose.
I do respect your opinions though. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...
Again, the point seems to have been missed.
In games where it is MORE viable to solo than to group, groups are rare to nonexistant. So telling us to "go on, go off and group if you like grouping so much." WE CAN'T because there is no one to group with, because they're all too busy soloing, because its the fastest way, and there are no mechanics in game to reward anyone for being social.
Yes yes, we're both from the same ilk, I know all that already. However, in today's MMO scene, most gamers are fresh from WoW and other solo focused games. They won't group without reason to do so. So the game has to provide a reason to group to get the ball rolling.
When a game is quest based, instanced, and faster to solo through than group through... well really, is it even an MMO anymore?
But that's the issue isn't it?
Being social IS its own reward.
the problem is that players have somehow warped their game play experience in response to how developers have made content.
For example. A developer makes a drop a rare drop off of a boss. Instead of players trying the boss, not getting it and then saying "well, next time I try it perhaps I'll get lucky" they just run it OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN".
Though I do get that LOTRO's questlines are a bit variable when needing a group. Having a quest part where you need to talk to one person just seems silly in a group. Totally understand this.
They need to even out their questlines and have it where there are two different experiences. One where it's harder in a group and one where it is manageable solo. Sort of like what they did with DDO.
But there are group quests in LOTRO and all of book one can still be done with a group.
You would think that with all the players who seem pro group they would just make a kinship and actually group for the group stuff.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Nope no point missed by me. I was spot on with my opinion. But perhaps you're missing something. I stated several times that there is still grouping in LoTRO! Jesus, just Google up all the kins(guilds) in that game. Join one of the multitude that are out there and group till you hearts content.
I guess the bottom line here for you and I are you enjoy grouping and I enjoy the choice to do either and I hope we both find a game that gives us that.
Take care...
^^^AGREE! I love the game and play it too, but this article/interview was pathetically lacking any REAL information. I personally hate it when we aren't given a skeleton or basics of where development is going next in the game. Just saying "more" is coming "soon" drives me nuts. To be fair though, all of these MMO developers pull this crap. I probably wouldn't care if there were a few more MMORPGs I could bounce around and play while waiting, but currently, there isn't.
Where did you get the idea that MMO means grouping?
Oh, I don't know, probably because it's a multiplayer game. Do you know of any multiplayer games that you play alone in? Modern Warfare! Nope, got team mates. Left 4 Dead! Ah no, got team mates that you have to work with. I can't think of any off the top of my head.
And you seem to be missing the RPG part. Roleplay Game. Ever tried roleplaying alone? You look like a lunatic talking to yourself.
So you mean to tell me that people are just running around doing their own thing in LoTRO (or any solo friendly game) all the time everytime?
Hmm, mostly, yeah. End game might have a bit of grouping going on, but here's a task for you: Make a new toon and level it up, asking for a group along the way. Let's see how you do.
A multi player game means multiple players. How one takes advantage of that should be by their choice. But then this thread devolves into a solo vs grouping thread.
It can be taken to the nth degree where the crafter rarely groups but sells their wares to players face to face. Of course, games with auction houses sort of curtail this time honored tradition.
And if these games are supposed to be mini worlds then it stands to reason that each individual will socialize in a way that feels natural to them.
Let's put it this way, I'm a soloer and I group more than you would think. I don't go looking for groups. If the kin is doing something and I have time I'll join. If. I'm in an area and someone asks for help, I'll help. Even if they are very low lvl and no one is answering their group request.
Because that feels natural to me. But sitting around surfing the net while I spam LFG only to then get someone who feels that they want to dictate what gear you should have and what traits you should have so that it optimizes the session is not to my taste at all. I'd rather wipe a few times with a relaxed group of people than group with total control freaks.
mmo's are about people playing together in a way that feels right for the players. Not everyone has to be in a group all the time yet they can still enjoy the game world.
but we argue this all the time on these forums.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I am a Founder, played in both the beta and the MoM beta, and purchased a lifetime sub just after MoM's release (which was a HUGE mistake), and was founder/leader of a fair-sized Fellowship. After MoM launched, LOTRO started it's dumbing-down strategy which is heralded once again as being such a great move by Turbine in this article. And as for listening to the player base, the Devs have a VERY selective ear to put it mildly. Its a shame that such a great game took the path that it did. I stopped playing around this time last year. Many of the promises that were made during the first year have still not been fullfilled, and after extensive discussion with a few Devs in the forums, the conclusion is that they probably never will be - filling in vacant areas of the map, improving the horrid housing, adding more fluff activities like fishing (which has needed an overhaul for ages now), a revamp of the ancient UI, more thought and developement of the festivals (which are often buggy and slapped together as though they were an after-thought), to name just a few.
I will probably go back someday simply because I have been a fan of Tolkien and The Lord of the Rings for most of my life (and that's a LONG time
) and because I actually do miss the game for what it used to be and could have been, but there is nothing in this article that does a thing for me.
~ Adder ~
Quick, Silent, Deadly
If they really cared about community input they wouldn't be churning out this shit they call festivals. How about something unique instead of grab ass with the NPCs for 3 straight years and a horse race. They tried a maze one time and that was about as truly epic as watching paint dry. They could be making community events ala Warhammer's public quests something at least fun to take part of instead you are stuck with a dialog simulator, a horse racing nightmare that doesn't end, and a dance off that makes Frodo blush. Not to mention all for the same grand prize of another horse skin...jesus h christ.
I would like to see more pvp options , maybe a second area outside the Ettenmoors or maybe a pvp system similar to the skirmishes .
They did just have one of those dev feedback threads where they ask the one thing you would like if you could make a change to monster play. So here's to hoping.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I like the fact that Turbine is making LotRO more solo/smaller-group friendly, but -- imo -- groups of 4 for the instances are still too big. I really wish this game offered something along the lines of DDO to allow solo players to play through instance content. It'd be awesome to have choice for a LotRO dungeon akin to those offered in DDO: solo, normal, use of hirelings, etc.
The fact that they are making the epic quest line soloable is admirable and wise; I'd just like to see them move farther in this general direction -- at least for all of the Moria/Shadows of Angmar content, areas where the player population is rather sparse. Rather than buffing characters (Inspired Greatness), however, I'd sooner see them go in an NPC/henchmen direction, since that is more in keeping with the idea of LotRO, i.e., a small fellowship. Something along the lines of Guild Wars-style heroes to round out your party would be really great.
I just tried LOTRO again after being away for a long time. Still a decent game.
Main reason i will not subscribe past the free 30 days i got with the latest deal, is same as why i quit last time.
I end up spending more time moving stuff around to my characters and house, and bank vaults than playing in the end.
Lack of sufficent storage for a game that needs so much room to hold all the different crafting items needed, just gets old so fast for me.
The crafting in the game is pretty decent, but the trying to store all the items you need for all the crafting proffessions is a losing battle. You end up playing mail tag, IE: sending stuff back and forth in the mail system since you will never have enough storage space to keep all the crafting materials you will end up needing.
Well its all interesting to read. More of the same. Improved new player experiance. lets focus on geting new players while leaving the vets to wonder why the game is going downhill. So much for doing anything for your veteran players and tryin gto retain them. We can see where the game is headed lets try to grab the new kids on the block.
I notice not one word of radiance, or LI legendary weapons was even announced.
OH well so nothing really new is going on in lotro.