My Feedback Thread

nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAMember UncommonPosts: 1,884

Below is what I posted on the STO forums, under their General Feedback Forum. So if it's deleted, at least there'll be this copy here. The thread was created and typed with respect, and genuine feedback and advice was given. You can see at the end, where I ensured in a round about way that other people will read this thread in other gaming forums, so deleting is will only give them a bad public image.

 

** Since this is the General Feedback section, where our Feedback is being solicited, I'll list below what would be necessary to retain my subscription. I just unsubbed as of today. **


* Give me a purpose in the game.


 


    For example, in Dark Age of Camelot, my purpose was to rise in Realm Rank on my server through PvP, and help defend my realm against other player factions. We fought over battle keeps and towers, and used siege weaponry. We also were able to fight 100+ versus 100+. Our purpose was to be the best realm, and that could be determined for all to see on the website, where the current status of each realm was kept up-to-date in real time. In addition, players were ranked for all to see. In essence, we all had something substantial to strive for.


 


    Another example is in World of Warcraft, where raiding and arena what people strive for once they hit max level. There's a series of raids, starting from something easy, yet harder than any instance, leading on to harder and harder raids. The raids are challenging for those not referring to internet guides, and especially for those guilds going through them and learning them for the first time. Finally, you gear up from those raids in order to advance to the next raid. The purpose of raiding, is not only to test your skills against something challenging enough, that it takes weeks to finally overcome, but also as bragging rights for those guilds who finish them first. Arena's offer PvPers a way to test themselves against other players with prebuilt teams, which are ranked for all the world to see. Again, it's for personal satisfaction, challenge, and bragging rights.


 


    In STO, all you have is dailies, which are a repeat of exactly what you've done up until RA5, which grant you Marks so that you can buy gear that IS NOT NEEDED for anything currently in the game. The STF's can be completed your first time through, and aren't that challenging. They also don't reward you anymore than doing dailies reward you. I get that all content doesn't need rewards, but if they're not that fun, which I don't think they are, then they need some incentive to do them. FvK PvP is unbalanced, as anyone can see by the way Feds mainly stick to FvF now. There's no reason to PvP in STO, because you don't gain ownership over anything or gain rank, or even status for bragging rights. I get that there are some people who will do it just for fun, but there's no purpose to it.


 


**** What I recommend is to implement progression style raidisodes; an open PvP sector, with objectives worth taking and holding (both space and ground); and some way for individuals or their fleets to gain status in the game. Allowing for player created Fleet Space Stations, whose looks inside and out are customizable would also go a long way. ****


 


++ Now the following isn't Gameplay related, but is related to retaining some subsribers none-the-less. Since MMORPG's started charging subscriptions, it's been the common belief by all MMORPG players that they're being charged a monthly fee so you can continously develop the game and provide services (server fees, salaries, customer support and etc.). What you develop from our subscriptions, which is everything, should be given to us in the form of regular updates, and sometimes expansions. This includes the content you develop, and the FLUFF features you develop. So to most MMORPG players, the fact that you charge a subscription fee in order to gain money to develop the game further means that what you have on the C-Store should be given to us included in that subscription. To do otherwise would be considered unethical by most MMORPG players; players you depend for a good reputation or a bad reputation, not to mention to stay alive as a company. ++


 


That's all I have to say. Thanks for listening, and I hope that you all develop this game into something I will want to subscribe to more than 2 months at a time. I'll post this thread on other gaming forums, so that STO players that frequent those forums may chime in with their own suggestions.


 


 


Sincerely,


 


Lt. JG Nathan Lynnard (RA5)

4th Fleet

Beta Squadron


 


Comments

  • Die_ScreamDie_Scream Vancouver, BCMember Posts: 1,785

    Despite our rough exchange the other day, I have to say this is a good post, I hope Cryptic will actually read feedback like this seriously.

    I don't think the game design at it's core is capable of being an encompassing MMO though, even if they did want to make it one. Basics like single server with low limit instances (zero open world) can't allow some of the examples you cite. The foundation is not there for an MMO, it's only capable of being a cooperative online game, so I don't see how the gameplay of real MMOs could be forced onto it.

     

    EDIT: A link to the thread would be good, I wouldn't mind seeing the responses you get.

  • Cik_AsalinCik_Asalin SoCal, CAMember Posts: 3,033

    STO would probably be well served going f2p.

  • Die_ScreamDie_Scream Vancouver, BCMember Posts: 1,785

    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin


    STO would probably be well served going f2p.

    It saved DDO, which was also circling the drain. Now it's a uge success for Turbine, and is also a heavily instanced no open world game.

    See this article. Especial this about DDO:

    "It's funny to think that just a little while ago, this game would more likely be on a list of biggest MMO disappointments. Dungeons and Dragons Online was supposed to be a huge success when it first launched in 2006, but the title struggled to retain an audience for the next three years until it was re-launched as a F2P game with optional VIP subscription packages and item-shop services. Since then Turbine has watched the title's fate turn around in magnificent fashion, as evidenced by the fact that the game has seen over one million "new adventurers" since its re-launch. According to Turbine, there are over twice as many paid subscribers now as there were before the change, and the revenue obtained from the DDO store is through the roof.

    Financial success is indicative of fun in the MMO world, and it seems that all players needed to give DDO a real chance was the hybrid F2P model Turbine has come up with. It's not quite the open-world adventure many MMO gamers were looking for in 2006, but it seems that the instanced adventures on hand in the now free to play game are well suited to the F2P MMO caste. I doubt Turbine is complaining about the steps the game needed to take to become a success, and I'm sure other companies are watching and wondering if a similar approach could help their game."

    Sound familiar huh?

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAMember UncommonPosts: 1,884

    Cryptic just needs to decide what kind of game they want to run. They can't produce a game and use a business model willy nilly. It must fit within the industry and consumer expected parameters.

    I won't tell a company how to make a MMORPG per se, but I'm a firm believer in charging what you're worth. STO was worth the box price. I got many many hours of gameplay out of STO. However, past that it's not worth a dime, but mileage may vary.

    All I know is that Cryptic released a game that would of made more sense to have a box price with the use of a C-Store. For example, the game would cost $50 "as is." Bug fixes and stability patches would be free. They can sell Episodes, Raidisodes, and other updates and fluff on the C-Store. This makes the most sense, because the game offers nothing of value as a subscription based game.

    Now I'm unsure how hard it is to mesh one engine with another, but they could buy some servers and open up the end game a lot, in order to fit my suggestions.

  • PapadamPapadam Tampa bay, FLMember Posts: 2,102

    Originally posted by Die_Scream



    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin


    STO would probably be well served going f2p.

    It saved DDO, which was also circling the drain. Now it's a uge success for Turbine, and is also a heavily instanced no open world game.

    See this article. Especial this about DDO:

    "It's funny to think that just a little while ago, this game would more likely be on a list of biggest MMO disappointments. Dungeons and Dragons Online was supposed to be a huge success when it first launched in 2006, but the title struggled to retain an audience for the next three years until it was re-launched as a F2P game with optional VIP subscription packages and item-shop services. Since then Turbine has watched the title's fate turn around in magnificent fashion, as evidenced by the fact that the game has seen over one million "new adventurers" since its re-launch. According to Turbine, there are over twice as many paid subscribers now as there were before the change, and the revenue obtained from the DDO store is through the roof.

    Financial success is indicative of fun in the MMO world, and it seems that all players needed to give DDO a real chance was the hybrid F2P model Turbine has come up with. It's not quite the open-world adventure many MMO gamers were looking for in 2006, but it seems that the instanced adventures on hand in the now free to play game are well suited to the F2P MMO caste. I doubt Turbine is complaining about the steps the game needed to take to become a success, and I'm sure other companies are watching and wondering if a similar approach could help their game."

    Sound familiar huh?

    DDO was also published by Atari who pushed the game to release 6 months early and then, because of finacial problems, didnt do any promotion for the game...

    See a pattern? ;)

    STO would be a pretty good game if it was F2P instead. Its really wierd ow they made a MMO for half the cost of other MMOs but still made it more expenive for the players than other MMOs (even WoW). Make a cheap game with max 80 hours of instanced content and expect people to pay $15/month? Really??

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • AttackoAttacko atlanta, GAMember Posts: 40

    lol

    way off the mark

    the comparisons are outdated

    A crackly looking view screen, voice chat, bridgeview, first person- all that is needed

    succesful games- tv shows= something that is unique

    anything a "successful" massivley mulitiplayer online thing is doing- they should not

    stuff that means something? ground to be held?  lol

    @%$%^ ground to be held

     

    the evidence is clear

  • bstiffbstiff Clearwater, FLMember Posts: 359

    Originally posted by Papadam

    DDO was also published by Atari who pushed the game to release 6 months early and then, because of finacial problems, didnt do any promotion for the game...
    See a pattern? ;)
    STO would be a pretty good game if it was F2P instead. Its really wierd ow they made a MMO for half the cost of other MMOs but still made it more expenive for the players than other MMOs (even WoW). Make a cheap game with max 80 hours of instanced content and expect people to pay $15/month? Really??

     The case by turbine claim that atari willfully neglected promoting ddo as they had plans for their own D&D mmo and their neglect was attempt to kill off the competition. Turbine put in a of their own money to Keep DDO afloat and atari stood by an watched them while all the while formulating a suit to pull the D&D license from turbine.  Heopfully they'll be free from atari soon.

    I think most people's problem with STO is that it simply isn't worth $15 a month. If it was F2P im sure it would do much better. People don't want to pay for abyssmal customer support ( 7-14 days to get a computer generated response to a ticket? really?).  The technical support forums are a joke. It's a bunch of players trying to troubleshoot each other's problems.The server disconnect bug has been there since OB at least and no comment from cryptic as to what the problem is or that they're actually even looking into it at all. As a monthly sub, I really can't see where my money other than directly into cryptic's pockets.  The situation reeks of minimal invest of resources and support with no plans for long term sustainability. 

  • DoomsDay01DoomsDay01 Charlotte, NCMember UncommonPosts: 773

    Originally posted by bstiff
    I think most people's problem with STO is that it simply isn't worth $15 a month. If it was F2P im sure it would do much better. People don't want to pay for abyssmal customer support ( 7-14 days to get a computer generated response to a ticket? really?).  The technical support forums are a joke. It's a bunch of players trying to troubleshoot each other's problems.The server disconnect bug has been there since OB at least and no comment from cryptic as to what the problem is or that they're actually even looking into it at all. As a monthly sub, I really can't see where my money other than directly into cryptic's pockets.  The situation reeks of minimal invest of resources and support with no plans for long term sustainability. 

    I dont think there has ever been "good" customer support for any MMO released and especially AT release. They were highly understaffed for this, that is for sure, but they have gotten better. Not great, but better. As far as this disconnect bug is concerned, I dont see it. I have been playing since closed beta and the only time I have ever gotten kicked off is when they were having server wide problems. There could be a reason nothing has been mentioned about this as it probably isn't anything they can do nor would I think it to be a bug on their end. Sounds more network related to me but hey, anything is possible.

     

    I will agree that they released to early. I made RA5 (max level, 45) in around 2 1/2 weeks. My entire routine since then has been to do my daily quest and thats about it. I am working another character up but that is seperate. Personally I dont care for PVP and do not think it even belongs in this game. I also disagree with the OP about raids. Of course I hate raids so I am pretty bias against them. I dont want to see this game turned into WoW or EQ or DAOC or any other "fantasy" setting.

    What they need to do is get that genesis system going that they touted so much about, so that content can be put out much much quicker. They need to put in much bigger zones with lots of exploration and flesh out the planets to be more "alive". That would go a long way to keeping people playing the game.

  • describabledescribable EdinburghMember UncommonPosts: 406

    didn't cryptic do a huge survey (worth 240 c-store points no less).... about what the customers thought , which included what subscription price they felt was a fair reflection on the  game.

    i'd have loved to have seen the results of that survey, to see how many people went "yeah $15 is perfect", when i know it's not much but it's worth about "$10" with, at this rate, the "$5" per month being spent on c-store crap.

    really would love to have seen the results of the "player survey" ... you'd have thought after the forums, beta, and their own plans and future aspirations along with the "player survery".... they wouldn't need an advisory council telling them what players want...

    isn't life funny...

    "nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week

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