Top 10 reasons how players scare developers into making a MMO 90% solo capable. 1. Player has job, no time to play. 2. Player is married, no time to play. 3. Player has kids, no time to play. 4. Player has personal stuff, no time to play. 5. Raids take too long, no time to play. 6. Player dies too much, no time to figure out game mechanics. 7. Good items take too long to get, not enough time to play. 8. Player doesn't like grouping, no time to find others to group with. 9. Travel time between locations take too long, even with teleporting/mounts. 10. Not enough easy win PvP areas, see #6.
You forgot the primary reason:
-Player finds the game not fun, takes his/her money and leaves.
Player should have had the good judment of knowing that maybe MMORPG's aren't his cup of tea & moved on. But nooooooo, player cried & whined until he made all game suited for his style (god forbid some ppl might still enjoy what MMO's use to be) rendering all current MMORPG's meaningless pile of "blip".
That's a good point as not all games should have to be the same thing. However, that is up to the developers to have a single vision and to be up front with their customers as to what a player can expect.
This way, when people start to cry (and they always do) they can point to the faq that indicates "this is a pro-party game and it will be difficult for people to solo after a certain point."
This way they aim toward their target audience and those players who prefer to solo know that the game is not for them.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If solo gameplay was all you sought, you wouldn't play MMOs. For the overwhelming majority of MMOers, solo gameplay isn'tall they seek.
Even the most hardcore solo player finds value in the game they play being an MMO, or they wouldn't be there.
I don't. In fact, I'd rather play solo all the time with no exceptions and play an MMO. So you're wrong.
You might have misunderstood Axehilt's post. Or maybe I have, dunno.
Let's assume it was you, otherwise this post is kinda pointless.
You might solo all the time, but the odds are that you choose an MMO rather than a single player game because of the unique properties of a persistent, populated world .. i.e. other people. Be that talking to them, trading with thim, killing with them, killing them or generally just looking at other players are they pass by.
In essence, Axehilt's right .. you're not just playing for the solo gameplay. You're also playing for the populated environment that the solo gameplay takes place in and solo games don't have.
I feel sorry for anyone who plays a MMO just for the solo gameplay, because they're admitting they like %$^#& gameplay comparatively speaking=) A good single player game blows away any solo gameplay you find in a MMO.
ok !but then you dont need a mmo?an mo like wow is plenty why ask for a mmo !you dont need it ?you will never play 500 vs 500 player(thats what a mmo is!
Don't be a troll, WOW is an MMO.
We're not going to change the acronym of every MMO (except Planetside, EVE, and DF) just because you have some whacked-out extremist view of what an MMO is.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If solo gameplay was all you sought, you wouldn't play MMOs. For the overwhelming majority of MMOers, solo gameplay isn'tall they seek.
Even the most hardcore solo player finds value in the game they play being an MMO, or they wouldn't be there.
I don't. In fact, I'd rather play solo all the time with no exceptions and play an MMO. So you're wrong.
You might have misunderstood Axehilt's post. Or maybe I have, dunno.
Let's assume it was you, otherwise this post is kinda pointless.
You might solo all the time, but the odds are that you choose an MMO rather than a single player game because of the unique properties of a persistent, populated world .. i.e. other people. Be that talking to them, trading with thim, killing with them, killing them or generally just looking at other players are they pass by.
In essence, Axehilt's right .. you're not just playing for the solo gameplay. You're also playing for the populated environment that the solo gameplay takes place in and solo games don't have.
I feel sorry for anyone who plays a MMO just for the solo gameplay, because they're admitting they like %$^#& gameplay comparatively speaking=) A good single player game blows away any solo gameplay you find in a MMO.
sans the social part. Also there is a limited amount one can do in most solo games and once the game is over the game is over.
It's a balance granted but if you are saying that grouping is the "better" game play for mmo's I would probably have to disagree because though grouping with friends can be fun, it doesn't make the game play actually better. In some cases it makes it worse because if I'm in an area for the first time and I want to look around or heaven forbid read the quest text what happens more often than not is that the group goes on without you.
It's one of the reasons I think that mmo's don't actually work.
So to that end I would say that game play in mmo's is all bad and it's the other things that an mmo world has to offer that counters those bad things.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I feel sorry for anyone who plays a MMO just for the solo gameplay, because they're admitting they like %$^#& gameplay comparatively speaking=) A good single player game blows away any solo gameplay you find in a MMO.
Yes, that's exactly why it's so obvious that Solo MMO Players are genuinely interested in MMO-specific features (like economy, socializing, or community.) Otherwise they definitely wouldn't be playing MMOs.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I'm sure by this page there have been some hate thrown about but I'm going to answer the question as is without jumping into any debate about solo vs. group (like I'd guess the op is trying to get going.)
I played video games long before there was ever an online let alone an mmo, and have always been an avid gamer. As such I heard about mmo's though not until around the time of Ultima and EQ1. When friends would mention those games to me or I'd read an article about them two things came to mind, one was the alien concept of paying monthly for a video game and the other was that the games were based off of ip's I d never heard of (which for anyone can be a big factor in deciding wether to buy something or not).
Then as I'd think is more common than not in this community SOE announced they were doing SWG and that immediately softened my stance against mmo's with an ip I was highly interested in and from a company I could say I was somewhat familiar with and trusted since SOE is sony (playstation).
I played SWG from launch and can attest that there is somethings about mmo's that make them standout, and I came to that revelation from an experience that wasn't that good thinking to myself often "wow there must be something about these mmo's for me to put up with these atari level mistakes this game is plagued with.". But when that game worked it was certainly fun and while I met some great people in SWG I met people who equally turned out to be the biggest jerks and I won't forget them either unfortunately.
From there I've played quite a few mmo's leaving SWG right before the NGE and mostly because of the jerks I met in that game coupled with the fact that more of the cool people were leaving than the tools I'd managed to meet in game, but every mmo I've played has had to work to first capture my interest with it's ip which for me is really not an easy thing to do or do something unique for me like COH as I grew up an avid comic book fan as well (all around nerd here).
The one thing though that never truly entered the equation for me though was "you get to play with other people.". If you read in all the earlier parts I wrote never once did I say that was a strong factor in me deciding to play an mmo and I won't apologize for that. I love video games and I find it odd that anyone solo player or a person who prefers to group would presume to take a little slice of that "franchise" and try to make it there own.
I don't begrudge anyone who really desires to group when playing an mmo but the things required to do so are things I really have no interest in, for me the minute I feel tied down to someone elses enjoyment of there game it automatically adds a modicum of pressure that I'm just not looking for when doing something I consider to be a hobby and a release. I don't want to care enough to wind up spending entire nights/sessions waiting for one other person or objective, I don't want to be unable to log off right when I want to if I want to and again I'd prefer to not have to get "permission" to leave my keyboard to go and do whatever it is around the house I need to do.
I've grouped far more times than I could ever count because it is not something I am against but I know for certain that my playstyle is certainly one that some players seem to seethe in anger that we would actually dare to come into the mmo space (which actually grew the industry to the point it is now) and "pollute the genre" as I heard one guy put it.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Question is just as silly as asking why mmorpg if you hate rp? As so many claim.
I assume you know your question is silly because "RPG" in videogame terms has always stood for character progression and not literal tabletop role-playing?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You might solo all the time, but the odds are that you choose an MMO rather than a single player game because of the unique properties of a persistent, populated world .. i.e. other people. Be that talking to them, trading with thim, killing with them, killing them or generally just looking at other players are they pass by. In essence, Axehilt's right .. you're not just playing for the solo gameplay. You're also playing for the populated environment that the solo gameplay takes place in and solo games don't have.
Since this thread is all about solo vs. grouping, I have to answer within the context of the thread. As such, I took Axehilt's post to mean that anyone who *ONLY* solos, like I tend to do, doesn't play MMOs and I pointed out that said assumption was entirely wrong. Lots of people do nothing but solo in MMOs. They *NEVER* group with *ANYONE*.
One of the primary reasons I play MMOs, when I do, has nothing to do with other people, but to do with the wealth of content compared to a single-player game. If I could get a single-player game with the same massive, persistent world that is constantly updated with new expansions so I never run out of things to do, I'd probably not bother with MMOs. However, until I can get that, MMOs are the best currently available alternative. It's not really the population, it's the game world that matters, at least to me.
Why do you play an MMO? Your answer will include a combination of features, at least some of which are MMO-specific. Which was the point of my previous post. Even if the majority of things you're after in a game are solo gameplay, if you're playing an MMO it's because there was something specific to MMOs that you also wanted from a game.
Because there is more content in an MMO than there is in any single-player game under the sun, it takes months or years to explore an MMO, as opposed to a week or two for a single-player game.
I'm sure by this page there have been some hate thrown about but I'm going to answer the question as is without jumping into any debate about solo vs. group (like I'd guess the op is trying to get going.)
I played video games long before there was ever an online let alone an mmo, and have always been an avid gamer. As such I heard about mmo's though not until around the time of Ultima and EQ1. When friends would mention those games to me or I'd read an article about them two things came to mind, one was the alien concept of paying monthly for a video game and the other was that the games were based off of ip's I d never heard of (which for anyone can be a big factor in deciding wether to buy something or not).
Then as I'd think is more common than not in this community SOE announced they were doing SWG and that immediately softened my stance against mmo's with an ip I was highly interested in and from a company I could say I was somewhat familiar with and trusted since SOE is sony (playstation).
I played SWG from launch and can attest that there is somethings about mmo's that make them standout, and I came to that revelation from an experience that wasn't that good thinking to myself often "wow there must be something about these mmo's for me to put up with these atari level mistakes this game is plagued with.". But when that game worked it was certainly fun and while I met some great people in SWG I met people who equally turned out to be the biggest jerks and I won't forget them either unfortunately.
From there I've played quite a few mmo's leaving SWG right before the NGE and mostly because of the jerks I met in that game coupled with the fact that more of the cool people were leaving than the tools I'd managed to meet in game, but every mmo I've played has had to work to first capture my interest with it's ip which for me is really not an easy thing to do or do something unique for me like COH as I grew up an avid comic book fan as well (all around nerd here).
The one thing though that never truly entered the equation for me though was "you get to play with other people.". If you read in all the earlier parts I wrote never once did I say that was a strong factor in me deciding to play an mmo and I won't apologize for that. I love video games and I find it odd that anyone solo player or a person who prefers to group would presume to take a little slice of that "franchise" and try to make it there own.
I don't begrudge anyone who really desires to group when playing an mmo but the things required to do so are things I really have no interest in, for me the minute I feel tied down to someone elses enjoyment of there game it automatically adds a modicum of pressure that I'm just not looking for when doing something I consider to be a hobby and a release. I don't want to care enough to wind up spending entire nights/sessions waiting for one other person or objective, I don't want to be unable to log off right when I want to if I want to and again I'd prefer to not have to get "permission" to leave my keyboard to go and do whatever it is around the house I need to do.
I've grouped far more times than I could ever count because it is not something I am against but I know for certain that my playstyle is certainly one that some players seem to seethe in anger that we would actually dare to come into the mmo space (which actually grew the industry to the point it is now) and "pollute the genre" as I heard one guy put it.
You have said it all. The moment anybody says I have to be online, all the fun is gone. I like grouping when I want to, not when I have to.
Why do you play an MMO? Your answer will include a combination of features, at least some of which are MMO-specific. Which was the point of my previous post. Even if the majority of things you're after in a game are solo gameplay, if you're playing an MMO it's because there was something specific to MMOs that you also wanted from a game.
Because there is more content in an MMO than there is in any single-player game under the sun, it takes months or years to explore an MMO, as opposed to a week or two for a single-player game.
Has zero to do with people, grouping, etc.
Fair enough.
Just curious: do you play single-player games and then use MMOs to "fill in the gaps" while you wait for the next singleplayer game?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
In my experience in MMO's while leveling there are often quests and group activities at all levels. While I don't intentionally avoid lower level group qeusts and activities, I tend to skip things I can't accomplish on my own until end game.
By your referring to some other type of gameplay, I'm going to assume that you mean gameplay where grouping for quests and activities is required or necessary all the time at all stages in the character leveling process. I've never ran into an MMO where this is the case but I would say that if I did run into a game like this and I enjoyed the game then I'd adapt to whatever the circumstances may be in order to play it. Of course I'm not referring to first person shooter type games where you are instantly placed on a team/side/faction in order to battle the other team/side/faction. I'm referring to the traditional MMO leveling process as I know it based on my experience and the games I've played. Darkfall may be an exception to my MMO experience as I've heard it's pretty rough to go solo in it but I have yet to play it and can't state this as being fact.
Not really required nor necessary... just better. MMO's these days don't really focus on making the group gameplay much more enjoyable or efficient than soloing, so often enough people just solo their way up. Quests prefer soloers, exping is easy whether you solo or group, group forming systems are not as good as they could be, class structures don't support such gameplay... Change these things, and you might be surprised!
In my opinion though any stance that goes at the player base for there own preference is not only wrong but a waste of time, I can concede everything you say here but this is not even a good question to ask of another player this is basically complaining that the new crop of mmo players is not taking up your cause.
The way to support/not support a product is to purchase or not purchase without me having to take up there cause and why would I deny myself of an experience I want to show devs they should be designing games with anyone elses goals in mind.
I've made this point a few times and usually get roasted for saying that the "true" mmo market are the ones who are buying up all of these "non massive online games", so if one considers themselves "oldschool" and they desire games designed any other way it's up to you all to 1 not buy mmo's that don't have what you want and 2 make sure that the devs know they are missing out on alot of money by ignoring your needs. Any mmo one could point to as "hardcore" and designed more towards group preference would be a few things in this day and age not the least of which is a game that never reached the millions that these new mmo's are reaching, and that's me absolving the devs of responsibility too because the truth is for me personally not even being able to group in an mmo would not really even be a disqualifying factor and I'm not going to apologize for that.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
If solo gameplay was all you sought, you wouldn't play MMOs. For the overwhelming majority of MMOers, solo gameplay isn'tall they seek.
Even the most hardcore solo player finds value in the game they play being an MMO, or they wouldn't be there.
I don't. In fact, I'd rather play solo all the time with no exceptions and play an MMO. So you're wrong.
You might have misunderstood Axehilt's post. Or maybe I have, dunno.
Let's assume it was you, otherwise this post is kinda pointless.
You might solo all the time, but the odds are that you choose an MMO rather than a single player game because of the unique properties of a persistent, populated world .. i.e. other people. Be that talking to them, trading with thim, killing with them, killing them or generally just looking at other players are they pass by.
In essence, Axehilt's right .. you're not just playing for the solo gameplay. You're also playing for the populated environment that the solo gameplay takes place in and solo games don't have.
I feel sorry for anyone who plays a MMO just for the solo gameplay, because they're admitting they like %$^#& gameplay comparatively speaking=) A good single player game blows away any solo gameplay you find in a MMO.
sans the social part. Also there is a limited amount one can do in most solo games and once the game is over the game is over.
It's a balance granted but if you are saying that grouping is the "better" game play for mmo's I would probably have to disagree because though grouping with friends can be fun, it doesn't make the game play actually better. In some cases it makes it worse because if I'm in an area for the first time and I want to look around or heaven forbid read the quest text what happens more often than not is that the group goes on without you.
It's one of the reasons I think that mmo's don't actually work.
So to that end I would say that game play in mmo's is all bad and it's the other things that an mmo world has to offer that counters those bad things.
I have to sneak in that in all my long posts I wish I could put things as eloquently as I've seen you do on more than a few occasions. An mmo in this day and age is actually cheaper out of the box than a single player rpg, where I'm at by like fifteen bucks then I always have gotten a free month so that's two months of game play already when as pointed out most single player games last a in the 100 hour range, that's just a no brainer and it's also as I've always said mmo's are built using a model that's tried and true which makes it insaneto me that a person would think that we should be "forcing" ways to play on someone else.
I have absolutely no problem with a company making a groupcentric game I will gladly not play it and won't go out of my way to bash the game,communiy, or the devs if after weighing all factors I didn't want to play the game. Because that's the flip side, myself as a player I don't rule out that I would ever play a game that depended heavily on grouping (even if I found out only after trying it) they all are only just games if the tools existed to make it as easy for me to group with the right people as it is to solo play I'd play the game.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
In my opinion though any stance that goes at the player base for there own preference is not only wrong but a waste of time, I can concede everything you say here but this is not even a good question to ask of another player this is basically complaining that the new crop of mmo players is not taking up your cause.
The way to support/not support a product is to purchase or not purchase without me having to take up there cause and why would I deny myself of an experience I want to show devs they should be designing games with anyone elses goals in mind. I've made this point a few times and usually get roasted for saying that the "true" mmo market are the ones who are buying up all of these "non massive online games", so if one considers themselves "oldschool" and they desire games designed any other way it's up to you all to 1 not buy mmo's that don't have what you want and 2 make sure that the devs know they are missing out on alot of money by ignoring your needs. Any mmo one could point to as "hardcore" and designed more towards group preference would be a few things in this day and age not the least of which is a game that never reached the millions that these new mmo's are reaching, and that's me absolving the devs of responsibility too because the truth is for me personally not even being able to group in an mmo would not really even be a disqualifying factor and I'm not going to apologize for that.
Dollar as a vote is a philosophy that doesn’t really work in the real market place. The simplest explanation as to why is because supply is not factored into the equation. For a dollar vote to count actual options have to exist that cover most possibilities. On a more sophisticated level of the explanation, a restriction of consumer options in the market place actual promotes profit for those that control the majority of good and services. It actually has less to do with your vote and more to do with market place accessibility.
Case in point, average age of a TV watcher is in their 50’s. TV content is focused on those under 20. Why? Product identity is formed before 20. So its not the consumer that dictates what is accessible, its advertisers and companies.
consumers have far less power than they think.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If solo gameplay was all you sought, you wouldn't play MMOs. For the overwhelming majority of MMOers, solo gameplay isn'tall they seek.
Even the most hardcore solo player finds value in the game they play being an MMO, or they wouldn't be there.
Nah, they just want to talk smack in the chat channels and show off their gear.
"Nah"? But...you're agreeing with me...
You're stating one of the reasons solo gameplay isn't all MMO players seek. You're stating one of the reasons "the most hardcore solo player finds value in the game being an MMO".
If being a shallow douchebag is finding value in the game being an MMO then I guess that they do.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
I largely (probably 90 to 95%) solo all of the MMOs I play.
Why then play an MMO?
--Because MMOs are simply great fun, even if played solo --Because MMO are, for the most part, very large sandbox-style worlds and with a constant influx of new features and content --Because MMOs feel more "alive" than SPRPGs, with live players populating the cities and world going about their own business --Because I enjoy (sometimes...) listening to the dialog/chat -- and occasionally laugh at that or learn something useful --Because players are unpredictable and can thus make the game world unpredictable by their very presence --Because I like how in an MMO something I do can affect or assist another random player and vice versa --Because I like having a player-driven economy/crafting system --Because I like having the option (on VERY RARE OCCASIONS) of teaming up with a friend or a small group
That's why and how I can enjoy a game such as WoW or LotRO or Guild Wars even though I very seldom group with another player.
I don't get why that would be hard to understand. MMOs are like vast single-player playgrounds but with a lot of bonus features that single-player games don't have.
Well, you see, the problem with playing solo games is that many of them you play through with level appropriate challenging content that will force the player to actually use a modicum of skill. Most people don't like that.
So they play an MMO or other such game, where they can outstrip their opposition and feel like gods as they farm their way through the weaker hordes! Same principle behind playing PvP in an MMO rather than a good shooter or action combat game. They prefer it when they can feel like they're skilled by sizing up numbers rather than actual ability.
the other aspect is story line, or plot. They don't want 'prose' and 'depth' getting in the way of their attempt of genocide upon the NPC, MOB, and player populations. They don't want to spend time cogitating over an intriguing story when they can instead be finding something squishy to obliterate.
Dey wants dem game like how dey wants dem dinner. Easy, accessible, and incapable of offering challenge or intrigue.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
If solo gameplay was all you sought, you wouldn't play MMOs. For the overwhelming majority of MMOers, solo gameplay isn'tall they seek.
Even the most hardcore solo player finds value in the game they play being an MMO, or they wouldn't be there.
Nah, they just want to talk smack in the chat channels and show off their gear.
"Nah"? But...you're agreeing with me...
You're stating one of the reasons solo gameplay isn't all MMO players seek. You're stating one of the reasons "the most hardcore solo player finds value in the game being an MMO".
If being a shallow douchebag is finding value in the game being an MMO then I guess that they do.
Well I don't write DNA, so I have no control over the instincts and environmental factors that cause douchebaggery.
I just seek to develop an understanding of why games appeal to various people. Douchebags, being a non-trivial part of society, are part of this.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
You forgot the primary reason:
-Player finds the game not fun, takes his/her money and leaves.
Player should have had the good judment of knowing that maybe MMORPG's aren't his cup of tea & moved on. But nooooooo, player cried & whined until he made all game suited for his style (god forbid some ppl might still enjoy what MMO's use to be) rendering all current MMORPG's meaningless pile of "blip".
That's a good point as not all games should have to be the same thing. However, that is up to the developers to have a single vision and to be up front with their customers as to what a player can expect.
This way, when people start to cry (and they always do) they can point to the faq that indicates "this is a pro-party game and it will be difficult for people to solo after a certain point."
This way they aim toward their target audience and those players who prefer to solo know that the game is not for them.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't. In fact, I'd rather play solo all the time with no exceptions and play an MMO. So you're wrong.
You might have misunderstood Axehilt's post. Or maybe I have, dunno.
Let's assume it was you, otherwise this post is kinda pointless.
You might solo all the time, but the odds are that you choose an MMO rather than a single player game because of the unique properties of a persistent, populated world .. i.e. other people. Be that talking to them, trading with thim, killing with them, killing them or generally just looking at other players are they pass by.
In essence, Axehilt's right .. you're not just playing for the solo gameplay. You're also playing for the populated environment that the solo gameplay takes place in and solo games don't have.
I feel sorry for anyone who plays a MMO just for the solo gameplay, because they're admitting they like %$^#& gameplay comparatively speaking=) A good single player game blows away any solo gameplay you find in a MMO.
Don't be a troll, WOW is an MMO.
We're not going to change the acronym of every MMO (except Planetside, EVE, and DF) just because you have some whacked-out extremist view of what an MMO is.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Question is just as silly as asking why mmorpg if you hate rp? As so many claim.
I don't. In fact, I'd rather play solo all the time with no exceptions and play an MMO. So you're wrong.
You might have misunderstood Axehilt's post. Or maybe I have, dunno.
Let's assume it was you, otherwise this post is kinda pointless.
You might solo all the time, but the odds are that you choose an MMO rather than a single player game because of the unique properties of a persistent, populated world .. i.e. other people. Be that talking to them, trading with thim, killing with them, killing them or generally just looking at other players are they pass by.
In essence, Axehilt's right .. you're not just playing for the solo gameplay. You're also playing for the populated environment that the solo gameplay takes place in and solo games don't have.
I feel sorry for anyone who plays a MMO just for the solo gameplay, because they're admitting they like %$^#& gameplay comparatively speaking=) A good single player game blows away any solo gameplay you find in a MMO.
sans the social part. Also there is a limited amount one can do in most solo games and once the game is over the game is over.
It's a balance granted but if you are saying that grouping is the "better" game play for mmo's I would probably have to disagree because though grouping with friends can be fun, it doesn't make the game play actually better. In some cases it makes it worse because if I'm in an area for the first time and I want to look around or heaven forbid read the quest text what happens more often than not is that the group goes on without you.
It's one of the reasons I think that mmo's don't actually work.
So to that end I would say that game play in mmo's is all bad and it's the other things that an mmo world has to offer that counters those bad things.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yes, that's exactly why it's so obvious that Solo MMO Players are genuinely interested in MMO-specific features (like economy, socializing, or community.) Otherwise they definitely wouldn't be playing MMOs.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I'm sure by this page there have been some hate thrown about but I'm going to answer the question as is without jumping into any debate about solo vs. group (like I'd guess the op is trying to get going.)
I played video games long before there was ever an online let alone an mmo, and have always been an avid gamer. As such I heard about mmo's though not until around the time of Ultima and EQ1. When friends would mention those games to me or I'd read an article about them two things came to mind, one was the alien concept of paying monthly for a video game and the other was that the games were based off of ip's I d never heard of (which for anyone can be a big factor in deciding wether to buy something or not).
Then as I'd think is more common than not in this community SOE announced they were doing SWG and that immediately softened my stance against mmo's with an ip I was highly interested in and from a company I could say I was somewhat familiar with and trusted since SOE is sony (playstation).
I played SWG from launch and can attest that there is somethings about mmo's that make them standout, and I came to that revelation from an experience that wasn't that good thinking to myself often "wow there must be something about these mmo's for me to put up with these atari level mistakes this game is plagued with.". But when that game worked it was certainly fun and while I met some great people in SWG I met people who equally turned out to be the biggest jerks and I won't forget them either unfortunately.
From there I've played quite a few mmo's leaving SWG right before the NGE and mostly because of the jerks I met in that game coupled with the fact that more of the cool people were leaving than the tools I'd managed to meet in game, but every mmo I've played has had to work to first capture my interest with it's ip which for me is really not an easy thing to do or do something unique for me like COH as I grew up an avid comic book fan as well (all around nerd here).
The one thing though that never truly entered the equation for me though was "you get to play with other people.". If you read in all the earlier parts I wrote never once did I say that was a strong factor in me deciding to play an mmo and I won't apologize for that. I love video games and I find it odd that anyone solo player or a person who prefers to group would presume to take a little slice of that "franchise" and try to make it there own.
I don't begrudge anyone who really desires to group when playing an mmo but the things required to do so are things I really have no interest in, for me the minute I feel tied down to someone elses enjoyment of there game it automatically adds a modicum of pressure that I'm just not looking for when doing something I consider to be a hobby and a release. I don't want to care enough to wind up spending entire nights/sessions waiting for one other person or objective, I don't want to be unable to log off right when I want to if I want to and again I'd prefer to not have to get "permission" to leave my keyboard to go and do whatever it is around the house I need to do.
I've grouped far more times than I could ever count because it is not something I am against but I know for certain that my playstyle is certainly one that some players seem to seethe in anger that we would actually dare to come into the mmo space (which actually grew the industry to the point it is now) and "pollute the genre" as I heard one guy put it.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I assume you know your question is silly because "RPG" in videogame terms has always stood for character progression and not literal tabletop role-playing?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Since this thread is all about solo vs. grouping, I have to answer within the context of the thread. As such, I took Axehilt's post to mean that anyone who *ONLY* solos, like I tend to do, doesn't play MMOs and I pointed out that said assumption was entirely wrong. Lots of people do nothing but solo in MMOs. They *NEVER* group with *ANYONE*.
One of the primary reasons I play MMOs, when I do, has nothing to do with other people, but to do with the wealth of content compared to a single-player game. If I could get a single-player game with the same massive, persistent world that is constantly updated with new expansions so I never run out of things to do, I'd probably not bother with MMOs. However, until I can get that, MMOs are the best currently available alternative. It's not really the population, it's the game world that matters, at least to me.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Because there is more content in an MMO than there is in any single-player game under the sun, it takes months or years to explore an MMO, as opposed to a week or two for a single-player game.
Has zero to do with people, grouping, etc.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I'm sure by this page there have been some hate thrown about but I'm going to answer the question as is without jumping into any debate about solo vs. group (like I'd guess the op is trying to get going.)
I played video games long before there was ever an online let alone an mmo, and have always been an avid gamer. As such I heard about mmo's though not until around the time of Ultima and EQ1. When friends would mention those games to me or I'd read an article about them two things came to mind, one was the alien concept of paying monthly for a video game and the other was that the games were based off of ip's I d never heard of (which for anyone can be a big factor in deciding wether to buy something or not).
Then as I'd think is more common than not in this community SOE announced they were doing SWG and that immediately softened my stance against mmo's with an ip I was highly interested in and from a company I could say I was somewhat familiar with and trusted since SOE is sony (playstation).
I played SWG from launch and can attest that there is somethings about mmo's that make them standout, and I came to that revelation from an experience that wasn't that good thinking to myself often "wow there must be something about these mmo's for me to put up with these atari level mistakes this game is plagued with.". But when that game worked it was certainly fun and while I met some great people in SWG I met people who equally turned out to be the biggest jerks and I won't forget them either unfortunately.
From there I've played quite a few mmo's leaving SWG right before the NGE and mostly because of the jerks I met in that game coupled with the fact that more of the cool people were leaving than the tools I'd managed to meet in game, but every mmo I've played has had to work to first capture my interest with it's ip which for me is really not an easy thing to do or do something unique for me like COH as I grew up an avid comic book fan as well (all around nerd here).
The one thing though that never truly entered the equation for me though was "you get to play with other people.". If you read in all the earlier parts I wrote never once did I say that was a strong factor in me deciding to play an mmo and I won't apologize for that. I love video games and I find it odd that anyone solo player or a person who prefers to group would presume to take a little slice of that "franchise" and try to make it there own.
I don't begrudge anyone who really desires to group when playing an mmo but the things required to do so are things I really have no interest in, for me the minute I feel tied down to someone elses enjoyment of there game it automatically adds a modicum of pressure that I'm just not looking for when doing something I consider to be a hobby and a release. I don't want to care enough to wind up spending entire nights/sessions waiting for one other person or objective, I don't want to be unable to log off right when I want to if I want to and again I'd prefer to not have to get "permission" to leave my keyboard to go and do whatever it is around the house I need to do.
I've grouped far more times than I could ever count because it is not something I am against but I know for certain that my playstyle is certainly one that some players seem to seethe in anger that we would actually dare to come into the mmo space (which actually grew the industry to the point it is now) and "pollute the genre" as I heard one guy put it.
You have said it all. The moment anybody says I have to be online, all the fun is gone. I like grouping when I want to, not when I have to.
Because there is more content in an MMO than there is in any single-player game under the sun, it takes months or years to explore an MMO, as opposed to a week or two for a single-player game.
Has zero to do with people, grouping, etc.
Fair enough.
Just curious: do you play single-player games and then use MMOs to "fill in the gaps" while you wait for the next singleplayer game?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Not really required nor necessary... just better. MMO's these days don't really focus on making the group gameplay much more enjoyable or efficient than soloing, so often enough people just solo their way up. Quests prefer soloers, exping is easy whether you solo or group, group forming systems are not as good as they could be, class structures don't support such gameplay... Change these things, and you might be surprised!
In my opinion though any stance that goes at the player base for there own preference is not only wrong but a waste of time, I can concede everything you say here but this is not even a good question to ask of another player this is basically complaining that the new crop of mmo players is not taking up your cause.
The way to support/not support a product is to purchase or not purchase without me having to take up there cause and why would I deny myself of an experience I want to show devs they should be designing games with anyone elses goals in mind.
I've made this point a few times and usually get roasted for saying that the "true" mmo market are the ones who are buying up all of these "non massive online games", so if one considers themselves "oldschool" and they desire games designed any other way it's up to you all to 1 not buy mmo's that don't have what you want and 2 make sure that the devs know they are missing out on alot of money by ignoring your needs. Any mmo one could point to as "hardcore" and designed more towards group preference would be a few things in this day and age not the least of which is a game that never reached the millions that these new mmo's are reaching, and that's me absolving the devs of responsibility too because the truth is for me personally not even being able to group in an mmo would not really even be a disqualifying factor and I'm not going to apologize for that.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I don't. In fact, I'd rather play solo all the time with no exceptions and play an MMO. So you're wrong.
You might have misunderstood Axehilt's post. Or maybe I have, dunno.
Let's assume it was you, otherwise this post is kinda pointless.
You might solo all the time, but the odds are that you choose an MMO rather than a single player game because of the unique properties of a persistent, populated world .. i.e. other people. Be that talking to them, trading with thim, killing with them, killing them or generally just looking at other players are they pass by.
In essence, Axehilt's right .. you're not just playing for the solo gameplay. You're also playing for the populated environment that the solo gameplay takes place in and solo games don't have.
I feel sorry for anyone who plays a MMO just for the solo gameplay, because they're admitting they like %$^#& gameplay comparatively speaking=) A good single player game blows away any solo gameplay you find in a MMO.
sans the social part. Also there is a limited amount one can do in most solo games and once the game is over the game is over.
It's a balance granted but if you are saying that grouping is the "better" game play for mmo's I would probably have to disagree because though grouping with friends can be fun, it doesn't make the game play actually better. In some cases it makes it worse because if I'm in an area for the first time and I want to look around or heaven forbid read the quest text what happens more often than not is that the group goes on without you.
It's one of the reasons I think that mmo's don't actually work.
So to that end I would say that game play in mmo's is all bad and it's the other things that an mmo world has to offer that counters those bad things.
I have to sneak in that in all my long posts I wish I could put things as eloquently as I've seen you do on more than a few occasions. An mmo in this day and age is actually cheaper out of the box than a single player rpg, where I'm at by like fifteen bucks then I always have gotten a free month so that's two months of game play already when as pointed out most single player games last a in the 100 hour range, that's just a no brainer and it's also as I've always said mmo's are built using a model that's tried and true which makes it insaneto me that a person would think that we should be "forcing" ways to play on someone else.
I have absolutely no problem with a company making a groupcentric game I will gladly not play it and won't go out of my way to bash the game,communiy, or the devs if after weighing all factors I didn't want to play the game. Because that's the flip side, myself as a player I don't rule out that I would ever play a game that depended heavily on grouping (even if I found out only after trying it) they all are only just games if the tools existed to make it as easy for me to group with the right people as it is to solo play I'd play the game.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Dollar as a vote is a philosophy that doesn’t really work in the real market place. The simplest explanation as to why is because supply is not factored into the equation. For a dollar vote to count actual options have to exist that cover most possibilities. On a more sophisticated level of the explanation, a restriction of consumer options in the market place actual promotes profit for those that control the majority of good and services. It actually has less to do with your vote and more to do with market place accessibility.
Case in point, average age of a TV watcher is in their 50’s. TV content is focused on those under 20. Why? Product identity is formed before 20. So its not the consumer that dictates what is accessible, its advertisers and companies.
consumers have far less power than they think.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
to the last poster:i got to say most gamer are fed up with this issue and have stopped buying
they play what they can access free and sometime buy stuff with prepaid credit card but that it
p2p is getting hurt because of the blurring of the meaning mmo vs mo
before we used to know what expect you went for an mmo you had an mmo (aika,eve)
you went for an mo(wow)you knew what you baught
but today every game want to be branded as an mmo wether they are a mmo or not!
Other people suck. The only reason to play online is so other people can see how awesome I am with my uber gear, and how much they suck by comparison.
The end.
And maybe to cyber with a hawt elf girl once in a while.
The end.
And sometimes to craft for me, because i don't like crafting, so I will let a lowly crafter make stuff for me.
The end.
And maybe to do raids if I can't raid by myself, as long as they understand they suck, and they are just helping ME with the raid.
The end.
I forgot to mention, other people suck.
The end.
Nah, they just want to talk smack in the chat channels and show off their gear.
"Nah"? But...you're agreeing with me...
You're stating one of the reasons solo gameplay isn't all MMO players seek. You're stating one of the reasons "the most hardcore solo player finds value in the game being an MMO".
If being a shallow douchebag is finding value in the game being an MMO then I guess that they do.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
I don't have to justify my play style to you or any other player for that matter.
No, you don't have to, but you do have to GTFO though... nah, i'm kidding... or am I?! lol :P
I largely (probably 90 to 95%) solo all of the MMOs I play.
Why then play an MMO?
--Because MMOs are simply great fun, even if played solo
--Because MMO are, for the most part, very large sandbox-style worlds and with a constant influx of new features and content
--Because MMOs feel more "alive" than SPRPGs, with live players populating the cities and world going about their own business
--Because I enjoy (sometimes...) listening to the dialog/chat -- and occasionally laugh at that or learn something useful
--Because players are unpredictable and can thus make the game world unpredictable by their very presence
--Because I like how in an MMO something I do can affect or assist another random player and vice versa
--Because I like having a player-driven economy/crafting system
--Because I like having the option (on VERY RARE OCCASIONS) of teaming up with a friend or a small group
That's why and how I can enjoy a game such as WoW or LotRO or Guild Wars even though I very seldom group with another player.
I don't get why that would be hard to understand. MMOs are like vast single-player playgrounds but with a lot of bonus features that single-player games don't have.
Don't worry it's probably protected in the constitution.
That probably explains why there is so many of them.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Well, you see, the problem with playing solo games is that many of them you play through with level appropriate challenging content that will force the player to actually use a modicum of skill. Most people don't like that.
So they play an MMO or other such game, where they can outstrip their opposition and feel like gods as they farm their way through the weaker hordes! Same principle behind playing PvP in an MMO rather than a good shooter or action combat game. They prefer it when they can feel like they're skilled by sizing up numbers rather than actual ability.
the other aspect is story line, or plot. They don't want 'prose' and 'depth' getting in the way of their attempt of genocide upon the NPC, MOB, and player populations. They don't want to spend time cogitating over an intriguing story when they can instead be finding something squishy to obliterate.
Dey wants dem game like how dey wants dem dinner. Easy, accessible, and incapable of offering challenge or intrigue.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Nah, they just want to talk smack in the chat channels and show off their gear.
"Nah"? But...you're agreeing with me...
You're stating one of the reasons solo gameplay isn't all MMO players seek. You're stating one of the reasons "the most hardcore solo player finds value in the game being an MMO".
If being a shallow douchebag is finding value in the game being an MMO then I guess that they do.
Well I don't write DNA, so I have no control over the instincts and environmental factors that cause douchebaggery.
I just seek to develop an understanding of why games appeal to various people. Douchebags, being a non-trivial part of society, are part of this.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Aw dang, looks like some one else is waxing sarcasm harder than I am all ready. Guess I should have read more of this thread first. XD
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin