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So why hasn't SWG bounced back... honestly.
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really the disgruntled vets are what is keeping it down. the word is out every where that swg is crap because of the nge. few people try it because of that.
the game has really gotten better since nge though. i still play on and off, and really enjoy it. my only complaint now is that they still have the iconic classes. the game controls are better, the crafting is still unique, gameplay is still grindy.
all in all i don't want a roll back to pre-nge anymore. i just want the profession system back-- and customer service (any customer service would be an upgrade)
No matter what content or 'shinies' are bolted onto the NGE version of SWG, it still is the 'fail' NGE version at the core. Betweeen an unwanted CU/NGE versions of SWG and $OE, the game was doomed. SWG would have had market staying power if it stuck to the unique and innovative features it had at launch,
In today's market, an MMO has to be well developed and polished at launch to succceed. Launch is the make or break moment - Ask Trion how well it is doing with Rift! It is amazing how many companies do not respect this reality given the past five years.
I would also add age as a factor. The game is old. And in addition to all its problems it also has to compete with other old games that don't have the same problems, but also all the new games that keep coming out.
I was one of those people that used to hope for a pre-nge server, but at some point I realized that it was too long ago and the thrill is gone and if SOE released a pre-nge server it probably wouldn't grab and hold me like it did.
I never really did understand the point of bringing a virtual Trading Card Game to an already virtual online game..
Well, I understand SOE's point: cash. Fair play to them, it's their business.
But why would I want to log on to a virtual world to play virtual TCGs?
except that it is not "fair play".
people pay and have paid a premium subscription price to play that game and have access to all its content and updates.
no where in the box did it say that content in the form of in-game virtual items can be obtained by gambling extra money on them.
Because THAT is the reason why people buy TCGs. Only because they might contain in-game loot that is not obtainable anywhere else.
but you are right in that it is "their business" and they can do (legally, not ethically) whatever they want.
but the results of that are what they are... turning SOE into the biggest joke of the MMORPG industry.
great post
I still feel burning seething rage inside when I think about SWG
In reply to original post and the poll...
I would have voted "Sony Online Entertainment's continuing arrogance in how they handled the situation".
You see I do not see MMOs as primarily a business. I never have. I never thought they should be. MMOs should be first and foremost a hobby that makes enough money to keep the servers running. That's it and that's all. All the "MMOs are businesses" mindset has given us is crappy MMOs that look great on profit reports but play like crap...
After all is considered, a MMO using the Star Wars IP should have never been made... because there is no way to keep the Suits out of MMOs when they use an IP that big and commercial.
SOE's SWG NGE "incident" is a perfect example of corporate arrogance and greed ruining a hobby and a product that was always meant to be niche and small and should have stayed that way. Most players that have been marketed to and attracted to play MMOs do not belong in MMOs and I am not afraid to say it. These players were brought into MMOs out of greed, nothing more than that and to me that complete BS. Most of the people working in the MMO genre now I don't think belong here either, for I really don't believe they have a clue what MMOs started out as and what MMOs should have stayed as. The only reason the MMO genre needed to change is because some brilliant Einstein thought it needed to grow, and THAT was the first big mistake made right there.
Alas, the damage to the MMO genre is done and cannot be undone... but I am not giving up on how I think the genre should be, nor am I leaving it. I love MMO gaming as a passion too much.
As far as I am concerned, the only thing SOE could do right now to make me feel better about the situation is for SOE to pull out the original pre-CU code and set up /create/ support/ operate a "classic server" with the original code *AND* then pick up where the left off and fix the bugs, and go from there. If SOE does this I will subscribe to this "classic pre-CU" server.
I have already taken one step in SOE's direction. I support and will be playing Vanguard: SOH so I have made a good faith gesture... now it's SOE's turn. I am willing to play nice if they are.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Well, this is a silly question. There are legions of MMO vets who say, "NEVER." They've cast Galaxies into the abominable, endless pit of shame, and it is not climbing its way back out. Ever.
So work should be a hobby and not something to support your family with?
There are also millions upon millions of new mmo players who have NEVER been exposed to the issues of the NGE.
Great games sell themselves and a few harsh words on message boards cannot stop that.
I myself wouldn't even look at SWG after hearing all the disgruntled players speak up about how SOE ruined the game with the NGE. Being that the game is so old now, I don't think I would look at it anyhow but my opinion is primarily a result of what I have read from unhappy players.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Well I read that bunch of bull hockey posted on the swg forums about how its my fault that I hated the nge, and that is my fault that the current product sucks so bad, and how its my fault that like many others I really dislike what the nge did.
I loved swg. Sure the cu got a lot of us angry. However the lies and deception from the SWG team was above board. Lets go back in time. Does anybody remember the little find on Amazon about the new game, and how there was a lot of folks complaining, but we were all told that was a misprint. Then we got hit with the nge.
I tried to play after the nge. I even gave it a year. I was one of the few who I knew that actually kept their mustafar bunkers, instead of taking the refund.
However I got to say the nge ruined the game for me. Nothing can change that back. With the lies of being told hey we deleted the code base, we cant restore. (what kind of moron does not have a backup of a game that was four years old).
Honestly if folks want to play it let them, but don't go blaming poor sales on me. That is on soe for having a crappy game. If they want to do something about it, let them advertise, hey we fixed this or that. We made the NGE even better. However you will not find soe doing that, to this day I don't remember them ever having a sales campaign, its part of the same problem that we have with EQ2, lack of vision, and lack of advertising. The game exist on word of mouth.
If you game sux you don't blame the folks who say it sux. You try to fix why it sux and make it better.
Come see me when we have a swg game that is prior to nge then I will play it, but I refuse to play SWG NGE.
Lol. This thread is from a year or so ago.
Anyway: "Hell hath no fury than a hardcore fan scorned."
Besides SWG being old and suffering the same problem as other old MMO's in pulling in new players, it also has the negative word-of-mouth working against it.
MMO gamers can be pretty obsessive about MMO's, but I honestly haven't seen MMO gamers as a group as obsessive in their holding a grudge as I've seen various SWG vets do; it defies common sense and reasonable behaviour.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Don't take what I said out of context. Yes Devs can make a living off their creations. The problem occurs when 50 other people want to make a living off a MMO and they aren't Devs.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
You mean the people who manage them and own the companies and IP? The janitors who clean up after hours? Secretaries? The people they're renting office space from or the payments they're still making on building costs for their offices? etc..
I guess he means the suits who take almost all the profit of it, then things in ways to milk more money and not trying to make the game better, just trying to make the game give more money without need to spend more
Without trying to speak for Gardavil2, what I get from that is there are a lot of developers who have lost focus on what made the successful mmos a success. That they were designed to be games and come from inspiration of making something fun that would amaze players when they experience it.
That has been replaced with a business mideset of creating a product with the intention of shipping X number of units to generate X dollars of profit. Time tables, budgets and demographic analysis replaced passion, fun and a focus on what players want.
TLDR version
Companies are to focused on making money and not making games, which is why they underperform. Make a great game and players will reward it with lots of money.
So work should be a hobby and not something to support your family with?
Don't take what I said out of context. Yes Devs can make a living off their creations. The problem occurs when 50 other people want to make a living off a MMO and they aren't Devs.
You mean the people who manage them and own the companies and IP? The janitors who clean up after hours? Secretaries? The people they're renting office space from or the payments they're still making on building costs for their offices? etc..
You are speaking of MMO gaming organized along big business parameters. I say that is part of the problem. MMO gaming should never be big business.
That's right. There are far too many people drawing a paycheck from MMOs than there should be. Too many Advertisers. Too many Marketers. Too many Accountants.
MMOs should be managed by the Developers and Artists that create them.
Janitors can stay, and some of the Secretaries that aren't just eye candy.
Keep the whole structure simple and lean. If people need jobs that badly then the problem isn't in how the MMO genre runs, it's in the Economy as a whole and no extra jobs "created" in the MMO genre is going to fix that.... Hmm maybe that's the real problem.
Will this happen? Nope. Too many people looking to make money off the hobby. I understand that... that doesn't mean I think it's acceptable for it to be that way.
Disagree with me if you wish too. That is your prerogative.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
The ones who run a multi-million dollar business? He should try it.
I think what's happening in the MMO business is what's happening in the whole gaming business: the gaming business has become the victim of its own succes.
For a few years now, the gaming industry has been larger than the movie industry, and just what you see happen with the IT industry, that used to be the domain of people passionate about it and freehaven of creative talents, it has become more and more regular corporate business as usual, just as any other industry branch.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes, you got it. I just see a big part of problem with how the MMO companies run day to day and how they are organized now as compared to how they were many years ago.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
I said my piece on this topic. I am done. Have a good day everyone.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Being a Pre-NGE vet myself and having stuck it out for 6 months after the NGE followed by 2 returns for roughly 2 months at a time i can honestly say that my personal opinion is this :
The current player community isn't an issue as to the "why hasn't SWG bounced back", the current players enjoy the game and good on them.
The disgruntled vets are not an issue either no matter how much hate they spew for the game, We no longer have the game we bought and played for so long, it's totally different in a gameplay sense.
One of the reasons i think it hasn't bounced back is because of the very same reason they totally changed it in the first place, the devs wanted to make it like other MMOs, simple and basic, instead of gaining more subs like the idiots wanted they reduced their player subs by more than half, from what i heard in game while i was active it's just a simple case of not learning from their mistakes as they lost player subs after the first CU.
The second reason i think it's not bouncing back and not likely to either is because there is too much competition for the same base mechanics, (log on, chat, raid instances/PvP, chat, log off) please note that i didn't include crafting due to the fact that it's pointless these days when loot is king, again though, another thing that got changed to the same old hash.
It's not likely to happen but if they decided to or could roll the game back to Pre NGE then thats what would bring the game back to full kicking power that it used to be, even the vets such as myself would probably return INCLUDING those that swear at SOE games and refuse to give them money for other games and such, they bring back what it was, game given a second life.
Money makes the world go round buddy. This is the way of business and yes, gaming is a business. You can't honestly spend that much time working on something, organizing something, financing something, without pushing for as much return as possible.
Besides, the bigger a business the more jobs it creates and thats one of our biggest problems right now. Jobs.