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So why hasn't SWG bounced back... honestly.
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You are asking for removing loads of content that has been added since the NGE and trying to solve the bugs that were mostly there from the beginning.
I think that starting from scratch would prove to be even less difficult. But I know, I shouldnt talk sense in this forum. So ahem, here it goes...
Yeah! revert the game back to preCU and itll be a WoW killer! Millions of players crave for item decay, waiting 30minutes on a shuttle and nothing but sand in the sandbox! They dont want content! SWG is srs bsns!
I don't think anyone is saying SWG could topple wow if X changes are made or that it would have some miracle recovery to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of players.
However, could reverting to the old code be any worse that what is happening now? Has any of that loads of content really done positive for the game?
I wish Lucas would just make them shut it down. its been dead for a while now.
I do a good bit of business development for my company, and one thing is true: A good product sells itself, a bad product you can barely give away. A few "disgruntled vets" have no effect compared to the reality of a bad product.
SWG-NGE is what it is. It is a well known quantity by now, in the MMO community, and people know SWG is a lousy game currently. And I have never played any game, before or since, that the "new content" makes more people quit. Recently SWG introduced... Flying pink Ewoks, Angel wings on players (on hot pants wearing Jedi even), Zombies, no trade on almost all new reward items, a crappy no trade player made quest system ... all of these thing cost SWG subs.
Why? Because the paying customers by and large, didn't like it, or felt that dev time was better spent fixing what was already there.
SWG-NGE is going down, because it is an inferior game, both compared previous incarnations of SWG and to other games, and because of SOE mismanagement and disregard they have for customers.
As a side note, I have never seen or heard of any other company hiding the "cancel button" as SOE did during the week after the NGE. When the account server crashed under the weight of people canceling, the geniuses at SOE decided to leave it broken and hoped the tide of cancellations would let up. Until people started getting on the phone and trying to cancel that way, the account server magically started working a short time later.
SOE can't live stuff like that down.
SOE & SWG:
Piss-poor development
Piss-poor customer / public relations
Piss-poor gameplay
Piss-poor ethics
Piss-poor reputation
So... why hasn't SWG bounced back? I wonder why...
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
You are asking for removing loads of content that has been added since the NGE and trying to solve the bugs that were mostly there from the beginning.
I think that starting from scratch would prove to be even less difficult. But I know, I shouldnt talk sense in this forum. So ahem, here it goes...
Yeah! revert the game back to preCU and itll be a WoW killer! Millions of players crave for item decay, waiting 30minutes on a shuttle and nothing but sand in the sandbox! They dont want content! SWG is srs bsns!
I don't think anyone is saying SWG could topple wow if X changes are made or that it would have some miracle recovery to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of players.
However, could reverting to the old code be any worse that what is happening now? Has any of that loads of content really done positive for the game?
Well I didnt quote you, so maybe you think differently. But a lot of posters in here actually think they would regain hundreds of thousand new players with a rollback.
About the rollback. That would cause loads of problems if you want to keep the current content. All the questlines and instances would have to be rebalanced for a system without lvls. A lot has been added since NGE.
The changed munitions crafting can also be binned, because its designed with lvls in mind.
So a rollback at this point would result in an even larger mess for which SWG doesnt have enough devs to deal with atm.
A lot of current players would like more diversity in the professions though. Its one of the most asked things for alongside more characterslots. Although there is beastmaster, chronicles master and pilot available to every profession, its still doesnt come near the freedom of choice in the old skillsystem.
Atm, SWG suffers mainly from a lack of devs. Players get impatient for new content before the devs even get to start something new. Well, and that the PVPers always want to push everyone into PVP if they want to or not. Maybe a PVP server would be a good thing for those.
The Developers. That is the problem.
They destroyed the game with the NGE, yes. But then the plug was mostly pulled on the project and its floundered ever since. SOE did not invest the MONEY into SWG to ever let it return to what it once was. They did not BACK THEIR OWN NGE UPDATE and because of that, it was never an accepted change.
They ripped the spine out of the product, and then left it to die.
Thats why it failed. Its not the smeer campaign, though that hasn't helped either by any means.
SOE gave up on it the moment the NGE hit.
The Developers. That is the problem.
They destroyed the game with the NGE, yes. But then the plug was mostly pulled on the project and its floundered ever since. SOE did not invest the MONEY into SWG to ever let it return to what it once was. They did not BACK THEIR OWN NGE UPDATE and because of that, it was never an accepted change.
They ripped the spine out of the product, and then left it to die.
Thats why it failed. Its not the smeer campaign, though that hasn't helped either by any means.
SOE gave up on it the moment the NGE hit.
SOE didnt back up the NGE after realising how much subs they lost. You write as if they destroyed their MMO on purpose.
The devs have to work within the limits that are set by the suits. Even their communication with the players is determined by that. I actually find it impressive sometimes that devs can keep acting civilized on forums. I wouldnt have the patience for that and after reading your post, Im positive that you wouldnt have either. And about 99% of the playerbase for any MMO
I'd say this short list about covers it.
1. The game feels as though it was strung together with chicken wire.
2. There's a stigma that follows this game, that will never be lifted. The player view of the game has been tarnished.
3. The class systems went from the most complex around to the most mediocre.
4. SOE
I'd explain each opinion deeper, but do I really need to?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
its not fun
what little population is has is top heavy and too spread out
it looks bad
Nope, nuff' said Mal.
You are asking for removing loads of content...
Someforumguy, what is your opinion of why SWG has not bounced back?
Too late for that....
That's not what I asked. I'm not asking for your opinion of what would save SWG. Why in your opinion, did SWG not recover from the NGE?
A company's doing with the way the game is made/developed has a huge part on how well it does, look at Modern Warfare 2, supposedly the biggest anticipated game in years and received tons and tons of hate feedback shortly after release- the hate wouldn't be as large if they hadn't gone with P2P hosting and lack of community modding, all Infinity Ward did with Modern Warfare 2 was just make a port of the XBox version for the PC and left it alone after that, they even ignore feedback on the PC platform. And worst case scenario, there's absolutely nothing you can do about hackers (aimbot/wallhack) on games you join and it runs off alot of legit players, I highly doubt IW will be addressing this anytime soon because they care more about consoles now.
Just don't blame the players and complainers, blame the company for the way the game was done.
When you make comments to the tune of 'there is no reason to talk sense in this forum' you are generalizing everyone, so even though you didn't quote me you are lumping everyone together.
That being said, lack of devs isn't the cause of the problems. It is the result. There was a time where there were more devs and still that didn't stop swg from getting into the position it was in. When you get lost while driving, do you pull over and ask for direction or do you keep driving, because you don't want all your time driving to have been wasted?
Really all the "content" of the last four years has not done the game much good as it continues to die. Much of it doesn't even work, so don't see that as much of a reason for protection. As it stands right now, continued development of the current game isn't going to turn the failboat around if it hasn't done so with 4 years of work put into it. People complain for new content, because content has been drag ass slow in being released and even when it does it is in a horrible state, nerfed to oblivion soon after or some other form of mismanagement.
Lets assume for a moment, that the current game isn't removed or rolled back. Instead soe takes some of the empty servers that were closed and restores a previous version of swg on a few. Move the dev team over there for a few months to see what happens. Something tells me that much of the current players would not mind losing some broken battlegrounds and a other content.
Truthfully I think the original game could turn into something more gamers would want to play with far less effort than the current game offers or will offer.
Honestly what is the worse that could happen?
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!! EPIC post Daffid011!
It's almost sad to me that so many of you see WHY the game has failed too, yet SoE ignores it - SWG is NOT the problem...SoE is.Whoever their market research people are (I believe it's Rich and Linda) they need to go.
It's all these reasons but prime amongst them is that Smedley doesn't realise that running games is about growing subscriber numbers and not creating revenue streams.
I think it is more basic. Try to think of any game on the market that has a fairly solid base and has been on the market for a few years and imagine how it would do if it were totally revamped into a completely different style game.
For example, if WoW were completely revamped into a skill based, PvP centric game, would it be likely to pick up more players than it lost?
Or take Darkfall, would it do better if it were changed into a PvE centric class based game?
Take any game and try to make those kind of changes and see how it would do. I doubt many would do better unless they were in miserable shape already. It's just too hard to make a first impression a second time. Most of the players playing a game already mostly like it how it is, and most of those who didn't like it are unlikely to give it a second chance.
I started playing SWG in 2003 (it was my 2nd MMO). I really liked and Got my wife and three kids to play. Yes there were bugs/problems/borken things. But it was a game that had feel that you could make your toon they way they want (i.e. if you wanted a CH/Rifleman or a Tailor/Pikeman) no levels. The Class forums were great even if you Hybrid or Main Class was borked. The Community was great, even the event in SoCal SOE put on. The CU was a pain, but the NGE taking a Game that you had to think alittle, taking the wide flavor and making certain clases that alienated alot of folks. I left along with my family and alot of my guild friends. Because the game that it became was not the game that was.
after the first 10-12 chapters NGE was starting to show promise but last few chapters have crushed any hope. one the latest changes as bothered me to the point where my 5 years in this game is going to be thrown away and canceled for good and hope star wars :TOR is the shining knight of star wars mmo's. what change you ask. well the economy has been messed up for long time due to insane vendor prices and the last decent place the bazaar has been butchered by removing the 20k price limit. no more getting house or swoop or alot of things at fair value thanks SOE looks like you found a way to tick off one your few most loyal customer. looks like it's time to put my $15 to good use buying good pc games.
Simple, it hasn't bounced back because where is its market?
Porn is a wonderful industry, you can do EXACTLY the same thing as your competitor, just put a different girl in exactly the same situation and the customers will scream for more.
In gaming, this is not the case. If I want to play Quake I don't need your carbon copy, I will play the original. People only play clones for price reasons.
SWG tried to clone the success of WoW. But if people want to play a WoW clone, they can play WoW. There is absolutely no reason for any fan of the play style that was attempted with the NGE to play SWG. There are FAR better games out there.
The old fans of the original SWG put up with its many many flaws, because it was the only game to offer them what they desired.
Smedley has chosen to turn the game from a flawed but unique game into a flawed copy of a game.
Just examine what the NGE tried to add, and then ask yourself, why you shouldn't instead get that from WoW or Lotro or EQ2? Games that have been built from the ground to be as they are, and that work far better.
Smedley baked a lousy cake with SWG, but it was the only cake in town. Then he learned that lots of people like steak, so he poored some blood over the cake, baked it and served and is now wondering why everyone is turning away in disgust.
once they tore the guts out of SWG, they stuffed it with the crap of everything thats apart of today. Therefor no one likes it.
Holy crap I think this about says it all the best (IMO)!
Great post.
Holy crap I think this about says it all the best (IMO)!
Great post.
inorite?! Tell me I'm not the only one who's gonna race out and test this theory?!
In the honest opinion of a person who used to write for a press site for SWG, it is not the game or the angry vets that stops this game from bouncing back, it is the sheer disgust people have for SOE. SOE have a long history with millions of people of having bad customer service, ignorant employees, never fixing vital core elements of their games and the most complaints I ever heard was how they take over games that could or were awesome and shut them down. Case in point The Matrix Online, this was a very popular game and had it's fair share of players, SOE took it over from Warner Brothers and decided they wold alter the server software causing massive amounts of game lag and increasing what it took to run the game and players who were not happy stopped playing. Another point is when they had the pre-launch of the NGE for SWG and were told by many and I was one of the press that told them this is going to be your worst mistake, but alas, they had to be the big boys and "would not be moved by threats of account closure by players", let the NGE run and with in 2 months lost approx 50% of their subscriptions with their one time #1 game. Did they admit they were wrong or at least make some changes to move to the way it was to keep players happy? The answer simply is no.
SWG is not bouncing back like other SOE games are not bouncing back due to the one common denominator, Sony Online Entertainment. People are tired of paying a company money that cares less about how their customers feel about what, how or why they do things because SOE just does it anyway. Let's all face it when you see SONY attached to anything it is usually a really good product but when it comes to Sony Online Entertainment we just wait for it to touch something and destroy it.
Funny how President John Smedley claimed if anyone could actually create anything close to a working black market type of SWG Server they would get a job with SOE, I have seen a few that are a job well done and are pre-NGE style and to this day I have yet to see mention of anyone who was in on these "Close" projects get a job with SOE, just again showing how pig headed, egotistical and full of crap SOE are.
I know this is in the SWG section but my next guess to fall on it;s face will be Blizzard and World of Warcraft with their recent outbreak of backdoor patching and game mechanic changes without letting the players know and filling the GM ticket times up with people who are royally ticked off.
Well, the SWG-NGE is simply just a horrible excuse of a game. If SOE/LucasArts would have been a choice then I would have voted for "all of the above"!
However the actual reason(s) for the down fall of SWG is more complex than just being a horrible game. The thing is that it wasn't just one or a few bad decisions, it was a complete failure on all fronts that lead to the CU/NGE! All of this probably goes all the way back to when Koster was removed from the decision process for SWG, it was down hill from there on!
Up to today the responsibility for SWG's status to remain a complete failure is still with SOE and LucasArts management!
Not disagreeing with anyone who says SOE's reputation is a deciding factor in SWG's doom.
Just want to reiterate why I left that option out of the pole. I left the option out because according to SOE's own admission, they were trading one player base for a mythical greater player base (which never materialized for SOE, but IS there... albeit, playing WoW). As I stated in another post, there theoretically should be many MANY new players in the MMO market who have not had any dealings with SOE, and thus have no qualms subscribing to a SOE game.
So as I said before, not at all disagreeing with anyone who says SOE's rep is the reason for SWG's downfall, but clearly, the reason they can't live down their bad rep is largely due to the word of mouth put out there by the disgruntled vets (which is an option in the pole). If SOE's bad management is what caused people to stay away from SWG-NGE, it's the disgruntled vets (ie: people who've had bad experiences with SOE and have spoken up about it) who are the ones to thank for letting the masses know about it.
Just trying to clear up any confusion about the pole.