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"The ultimate player driven economy"...yes!...but how does it work?

patshirpatshir PortoviejoPosts: 114Member

Well here I am enjoying my first couple weeks of Darkfall, and after passing harvesting and gathering resources to take the way of the crafter however after I could at last craft something at low level of course, I went to two of the NPCs to sell my masterworks and they offered me zero coins for them. I went to players to trade with them but they just ignore me.

I dont want to go like a beggar asking to every player if they want to buy my wares, moreover, how do I know the reference price to sell them? Is there a trading house where I can offer them to other players? I have looked for information on the web but there is so little about Darkfall that for me the best option is to ask on these forums to other players.

If there is a trading house, where is it located? what is the procedure to sell there? I live on Beladin's Rest in the Mirdain realm on the NA1 server.

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Comments

  • gkb3469gkb3469 rincon, GAPosts: 146Member

    This is one of the areas among other things where the game needs help. I dont want a trade house where you just look anything up you need, that would be too easy. They added player vendors but those are extremely rare and expensive. the only thing you can do is advertise in trade chat or public chats of cities. joining a clan always adds a new market to your wares.

    What types of items are you making that the vendor wont give you gold for?

  • patshirpatshir PortoviejoPosts: 114Member
    Originally posted by gkb3469


    What types of items are you making that the vendor wont give you gold for?



     

    Cooked fish and planks

  • XianthosXianthos lolPosts: 723Member
    Originally posted by patshir


    Well here I am enjoying my first couple weeks of Darkfall, and after passing harvesting and gathering resources to take the way of the crafter however after I could at last craft something at low level of course, I went to two of the NPCs to sell my masterworks and they offered me zero coins for them. I went to players to trade with them but they just ignore me.
    I dont want to go like a beggar asking to every player if they want to buy my wares, moreover, how do I know the reference price to sell them? Is there a trading house where I can offer them to other players? I have looked for information on the web but there is so little about Darkfall that for me the best option is to ask on these forums to other players.
    If there is a trading house, where is it located? what is the procedure to sell there? I live on Beladin's Rest in the Mirdain realm on the NA1 server.

     

    The question is can you offer something that other player cant offer? Thats the greatest problem in DF economy. Every can craft everything.

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  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    EVE Online has the ultimate player driven economy. DF doesn't have an economy, if you compare it to EVE.

    BTW, Merry Christmas, PvP newbs!

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  • djnexusdjnexus Detroit, MIPosts: 677Member

    Actually I think the mat components are more sought after, just last night I made 2.7k from selling sulfer and resin in bulk to a guildie others buy it to. The economy isnt to bad I think. That helped me out greatly and I burned through it in 15 min :)

  • RuynRuyn Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 1,052Member
    Originally posted by Xianthos

    Originally posted by patshir


    Well here I am enjoying my first couple weeks of Darkfall, and after passing harvesting and gathering resources to take the way of the crafter however after I could at last craft something at low level of course, I went to two of the NPCs to sell my masterworks and they offered me zero coins for them. I went to players to trade with them but they just ignore me.
    I dont want to go like a beggar asking to every player if they want to buy my wares, moreover, how do I know the reference price to sell them? Is there a trading house where I can offer them to other players? I have looked for information on the web but there is so little about Darkfall that for me the best option is to ask on these forums to other players.
    If there is a trading house, where is it located? what is the procedure to sell there? I live on Beladin's Rest in the Mirdain realm on the NA1 server.

     

    The question is can you offer something that other player cant offer? Thats the greatest problem in DF economy. Every can craft everything.

    Which creates a HUGE demand for the materials.

  • M1sf1tM1sf1t San Francisco, CAPosts: 1,583Member Uncommon

    Right now prices have hit the roof. Apparently the major alliances and people who bugged out and killed ub3r mobs like devils and where sitting on large reserves of gold are now spending their gold and acquiring materials. Don't waste your time with anything other then gathering IMHO. For example stuff like steed grass is currently selling for about 500 gold in the trade channel per item and wood is incredibly 8 gold per log which is insane.

    OT - Someone mention player vendors but really in a game like DFO where travel is dangerous and a pain in the arse this item is pretty much pointless for the world economy. It my prove useful if you are in a rather large clan alliance but not much else. You'd be better off dealing and working within the constraints of trade chat in game IMHO.

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  • LynxJSALynxJSA Sarasota, FLPosts: 2,601Member
    Originally posted by Xianthos


     
    The question is can you offer something that other player cant offer? Thats the greatest problem in DF economy. Every can craft everything.

     

    Even in a game where everyone has relatively easy access to gathering or crafting everything, there are many ways to set yourself apart or to build a merchant empire for yourself.

     

    There are probably plenty of crafters that, given the option to just sell the materials to you instead of build stuff themselves, will take lower profit deals if it means a faster turn around on their investment (time/money/resources).

    If you are regularly stocked, you can usually garner a collection of loyal customers that won't mind paying a bit extra if they know you'll always have what they need.

    Get the other crafters to either work with you or for you. form an artisan's guild that the crafters from each clan can join. Regulate prices, fix prices, or even just centralize the crafting. Could even lead to some interesting scenarios once you get diplomacy or even some persuasive strongarming involved. ;) 

     

    Darkfall is one of those MMOs where there's a lot more to the business end of crafting/building than just buying low and selling high on an auction house. Get creative and get ballsy - you'll probably surprise yourself with what you come up with. :) 

     

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  • StrixMaximaStrixMaxima SPosts: 884Member

    So far, most of the commerce I've seen is:

    Bulk purchase of Spell Components such as Resin, Sulfur, Nacre.

    Steedgrass

    Basic Harvestable resources, such as Iron, Stone, Logs

    Rare stuff, such as Astrolabes, Housing mods.

    Everything else won't sell. You'll have a very hard time trying to sell the byproduct of your Crafting efforts. The very act of trading is dangerous, in itself. The commerce then works by minimal trading, and most of it is encapsulated withing guilds/alliances. It's a difficult, artificially awkward situation that needs to be addressed by Aventurine, and fast.

  • CecropiaCecropia The Great White North, ONPosts: 3,471Member Uncommon

    The economy in Darkfall needs some serious attention. A game like this needs the kind of system that EVE uses.

    How this can be implemented into Darkfall is the question.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • AzdulAzdul GdanskPosts: 440Member
    Originally posted by patshir


    Well here I am enjoying my first couple weeks of Darkfall, and after passing harvesting and gathering resources to take the way of the crafter however after I could at last craft something at low level of course, I went to two of the NPCs to sell my masterworks and they offered me zero coins for them. I went to players to trade with them but they just ignore me.



     

    There is no skill cap, so crafting doesn't have inherent value. You can only sell resources or high level stuff, through trade channel or your player vendor. (player vendor costs about 200k - and you need house first). It's hard to sell low level stuff.

    About prices - www.darkfallprices.com has very outdated information, in most cases prices went up 2-3 times. The only reliable source of information is trade channel.

    All kinds of  resources can be sold on trade channel: iron ore, iron ingots, timber, wood, enchanting catalysts, all kinds of enchanting materials, reagents, and so on.

    If you want to sell crafted wares, you need either be very high level crafter, or find your niche. As new player you can try selling major healing potions, high level food (lobsters, shephard's pie) or arrows.

    The things that can be sold for high price, usually require a lot of work from crafter, or a lot of trading for materials. You could easily sell R50 greatsword with Q3 keen enchant and Q3 strength enchant. But to make such sword you need:

    1) Level up weaponsmithing to 100.

    2) Level up weaponsmithing mastery to 25.

    3) Level up enchanting to 50.

    4) Acquire veilron ingot, either by killing veilron golem, or ninja-mining clan mine.

    5) Get a lot of iron ingots.

    6) Acquire 2 kinds of catalysts and 6 x 5 different enchanting materials.

    Most of veteran players have both weaponsmithing and enchanting. But not everyone can make such sword, moreover not everyone has required materials - so there is demand for it, and there are players ready to pay good price.

  • seabeastseabeast Bellevue, NEPosts: 748Member

    Dont matter...the player with the most bots...WINS

  • AzdulAzdul GdanskPosts: 440Member
    Originally posted by seabeast


    Dont matter...the player with the most bots...WINS



     

    Actually it may work in any other MMORPG, but not in Darkfall.

    There is NO WAY to get rare ingot using bot.

    You can't use bots to gather even most basic resources. As soon as there are bots running somewhere in the world - the place will be visited often by PKs or GMs.

  • daarcodaarco GavlePosts: 4,497Member

    I think this is one of the major things AV is working on for DF. With the gameplay we have here, a good economy system is a must!

  • Ever-AngelEver-Angel Petrovaradin, AKPosts: 46Member

    eve online had a better economy then most real world stats and corporations :)

    and yea eve online > all other MMO's together in how good the economy is.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xianthos 
    The question is can you offer something that other player cant offer? Thats the greatest problem in DF economy. Every can craft everything.

    It is a general MMO problem, but DF have it even worse since you don't have to choose skills you craft (which of course is logical, I have a friend who actually lives by crafting swords and armors for re-enactors, IRL you don't have to chose one. He also works a bit in silver but isn't as good in it).

     

    IRL there are so many products that often are quite similar but not exactly. It is very hard to make a MMO with a crafting system like that. MO is trying, dunno if it will work or not, if it actually do it isn't impossible that other games like DF will patch in something similar later.

    There is also options IRL to get a custom made thing just for you. My buddy crafted a sword for me based on 2 swords from a museum (mine is sharp however, and the wood in the hilt is from the year 953 AD).

    I think crafting is the thing that all MMOs could do better, it is very popular with players but could be done a lot better. 

    Auction houses isn't really optimal in a game, something around the line that you either rent a npc to sell the stuff at a market place or that you are able to build a store yourself is a lot more fun and realistic. 

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon

    I dont know why, but for some reason MMO developers can't seem to get their heads around the fact that people, not everyone perhaps, but some people, enjoy crafting in games, some like trading and playing the markets etc. So any game that enables that imo, is off to a good start - my favourite game of all time was SWG, before the CU where they introduced levels etc, levels in a skill based system just dont work imo. Player driven economies along with player crafted only items in a game, do make for a more complex game, and can really bring the games community together, i made a lot of friends in swg because i was a weaponsmith, they werent the best weapons, but they were cheap enough that just about everyone could afford them, and would do until they could afford the weapons made by the 'best' weaponsmiths.. the more i read about DF the more im thinking i might give it a go

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry


    I dont know why, but for some reason MMO developers can't seem to get their heads around the fact that people, not everyone perhaps, but some people, enjoy crafting in games, some like trading and playing the markets etc. So any game that enables that imo, is off to a good start - my favourite game of all time was SWG, before the CU where they introduced levels etc, levels in a skill based system just dont work imo. Player driven economies along with player crafted only items in a game, do make for a more complex game, and can really bring the games community together, i made a lot of friends in swg because i was a weaponsmith, they werent the best weapons, but they were cheap enough that just about everyone could afford them, and would do until they could afford the weapons made by the 'best' weaponsmiths.. the more i read about DF the more im thinking i might give it a go

    Well, it is very complicated to make a perfect crafting and trading system. DF was made on a rather limited budget compared to games like Wow and WAR, focusing on making a working game from the start was probably the best decision here and add features later.

     

    As I said in top, they can always paste in better crafting later, other MMOs have done it before. And I hope they do.

  • RespitRespit DFW, TXPosts: 770Member
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Xianthos 
    The question is can you offer something that other player cant offer? Thats the greatest problem in DF economy. Every can craft everything.

    It is a general MMO problem, but DF have it even worse since you don't have to choose skills you craft (which of course is logical, I have a friend who actually lives by crafting swords and armors for re-enactors, IRL you don't have to chose one. He also works a bit in silver but isn't as good in it).

    Sure, you don't have to choose just one, but you cannot do everything there is, as it is now in Darkfall. In RL you will be limited at the very least by time, whereas in Darkfall it is just a matter of time.

     

    IRL there are so many products that often are quite similar but not exactly. It is very hard to make a MMO with a crafting system like that. MO is trying, dunno if it will work or not, if it actually do it isn't impossible that other games like DF will patch in something similar later.

    We  will have to wait and see, but I feel that Fallen Earth will have a crafting system that will be close.

     

    There is also options IRL to get a custom made thing just for you. My buddy crafted a sword for me based on 2 swords from a museum (mine is sharp however, and the wood in the hilt is from the year 953 AD).

    Good point, thing is you have to seek someone out to do those things IRL. In Darkfall, you don't have to, unless you choose to.

     

    I think crafting is the thing that all MMOs could do better, it is very popular with players but could be done a lot better.

    Agreed 100% here.  But in Darkfall? Hell NO!! That's care-bear and has no place in a Ultra Hardcore PeeVeePee game!!

     

    Auction houses isn't really optimal in a game, something around the line that you either rent a npc to sell the stuff at a market place or that you are able to build a store yourself is a lot more fun and realistic. 

    SWG had a very nice system in place, and could be easily implemented into any game.

     Anyway, as mentioned somewhere else, it is just a a matter of the developers actually  realizing that having a meaningful and inticate crafting system is wanted and needed in todays MMO's. People want to scream about the "cookie-cutter, copy/paste" of modern mmo's, but when it comes to crafting it just doesn't seem to apply.

     

    As I touched on above, I believe Earthrise will have the type of crafting that I will find both challenging and enjoyable. I can't really say that anything else since early SWG has even come close to doing that. But hey, there is a good reason as to why SWG's crafting was top notch.

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  • cosycosy ColentinaPosts: 3,304Member
    Originally posted by M1sf1t


     wood is incredibly 8 gold per log which is insane.
     

     

    1 wood 8 gold where ? last time when i buy some was 20

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  • cosycosy ColentinaPosts: 3,304Member
    Originally posted by patshir


     
    I dont want to go like a beggar asking to every player if they want to buy my wares, moreover, how do I know the reference price to sell them? Is there a trading house where I can offer them to other players? I have looked for information on the web but there is so little about Darkfall that for me the best option is to ask on these forums to other players.
     

     

    players dont buy items from enemy's  and anyone outside clan/alliance is a enemy 

     

     

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  • BlindchanceBlindchance WhywouldyouliketoknowPosts: 1,081Member
    Originally posted by cosy

    Originally posted by patshir


     
    I dont want to go like a beggar asking to every player if they want to buy my wares, moreover, how do I know the reference price to sell them? Is there a trading house where I can offer them to other players? I have looked for information on the web but there is so little about Darkfall that for me the best option is to ask on these forums to other players.

    players dont buy items from enemy's  and anyone outside clan/alliance is a enemy 

    You would be surprised how often I have seen an announcement in alliance chat:

    "Don't kill X his is coming to city Y to trade"

    I agree that most of clans are self-efficient in the way as a big medieval community would be: own carpenter, blacksmith, farmers etc. I don't think AV can do anything about it, EXCEPT introducing various types of quality of resources and regional resources to boost  trade of those and put more reasons in conflict. 

     

  • Agricola1Agricola1 PortsmouthPosts: 4,984Member

    DFO economy is trading materials/rare items for gold/materials/rare items, but imagine you're doing it in Afghanistan or Burma with only warlords for "protection". In EVE you have safe space (empire) where you can trade/mine/craft all you want in peace, you can't be killed once docked or killed when purchasing gear. EVE uses large safe zones to allow commerce, without the safe zones and saftey in place it would be no different than DFO.

    DFO will never get close to EVE with commerce, even if you could purchase an item from a vendor and the gold is transfered from your bank to theirs automatically and the item is transfered to your bank the same way it wouldn't reach the heights of EVE as you'd still have to take risk traveling there.

    In DFO no one trusts eachother and travel is dangerous, in EVE it doesn't matter as you are almost garunteed saftey when it comes to buying and selling and can at worst get scammed (if you're stupid) or suicide ganked (extremely rare). The trade off is that DFO is more dangerous to the detriment of the economy, EVE has a better economy to the detriment of PvP.

    Although DFO is a great improvement on Shadowbane economicaly, SB really used to suck when some guy was lurking using /hide or whatever the invisibility skill was and killing people as they bought gear. It just ended up getting really old and player cities were completely dead as if you saw someone else buying gear you'd be forced to attack them before they attacked you. I think DFO is pretty good compared to SB and could be something like SWG was, but it's lack of safe zones to trade in that cause the poor economy the game like SB is just too cut throat, but that's the way I like it ;)

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  • patshirpatshir PortoviejoPosts: 114Member

    Agricola1 is that guy on the photo you? You look really baaad! No offense intended. = )

     

  • SeytanSeytan Tucson, AZPosts: 653Member
    Originally posted by Blindchance

    Originally posted by cosy

    Originally posted by patshir


     
    I dont want to go like a beggar asking to every player if they want to buy my wares, moreover, how do I know the reference price to sell them? Is there a trading house where I can offer them to other players? I have looked for information on the web but there is so little about Darkfall that for me the best option is to ask on these forums to other players.

    players dont buy items from enemy's  and anyone outside clan/alliance is a enemy 

    You would be surprised how often I have seen an announcement in alliance chat:

    "Don't kill X his is coming to city Y to trade"

    I agree that most of clans are self-efficient in the way as a big medieval community would be: own carpenter, blacksmith, farmers etc. I don't think AV can do anything about it, EXCEPT introducing various types of quality of resources and regional resources to boost  trade of those and put more reasons in conflict. 

     



     

    Thats not nessessarily true. Extraordinary craftsmen traveled all over the medieval world plying thier trade, or wares. The heavy guns employed at the siege of Constantaople in 1453 were forged, emplaced, and fired by a master cannoneer whom in fact was christian. Yet for the right price he was willing to help a muslim sultan take one of the most inportant citys in christendom.

    This was not a novel event. Edward I sought the services of a number of siegemasters to build siege engines for his campaigns, as did other european monarchs of the day, and in fact so precious were these engines, that they were givin names.

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