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Quit the BS devs and gives us a real MMORPG for once!

aranhaaranha StockholmPosts: 170Member

Im done searching for mmo's since the games just arent fun anymore. I play EvE from time to time and its great but wth happend in this genre?

 

If we look back to the oldies of UO, EQ, AO, RO and the rest of the oldies there was passion and fun ideas for the games. There was something to do everyday and it was FUN!

 

Ive allways been against WoW not becose it sucks or that smelly 11 yearolds call them self mmo vets for playing it for 8 months but becose of the negative impact it had on the mmogames. Arent we freaking tired of doing 213 quests everyday to gain a level and get a few more crappy skills that barely do any diffrence at all since you have to kill higher lvl mobs anyway becose some bum in a camp would give you a cheeseburger and XP if you did?

 

What ever happend to stat and skills that affect eachother and making characters with real builds that stood out from eachother and especially how those builds had an effect in PVP making the class you played diverse and something YOU layed thought into and created. The char becomes more than just one of "that" class that just differ in levels.

 

What ever happend to free choices like entering a game and just walking a path and see where it leads instead of some hobo telling you to go kill 10 hogs or whatever. Theres so much old good stuff like the sandboxing ideas and real character customization that just got lost when all the new features got implented. Features that some of us mmorpg vets still see and the best things in mmorpgs and that kept us playing those old games for months and years with nothing more than a smile on our faces.

 

For me WoW isnt something i like to call an mmorpg as it showed the gamedevelopers that simplicity is a winning concept. That any player can jump in and enjoy it no matter how young or stupid. Doing quests for exp, Grinding for crap, Raiding for gear, PvPing for gear or faction status. What ever happend to PvPing for your clan or territory or fun

?

Personally id love to just have a dungeon without any quests or stupid choirs to be done within. Just me and my friends venturing down to explore and hopefully gain something from it.

 

I think we lost RPG and FUN somewhere along the years. This is not a post against WoW players i took it as an example since it had a great deal in changing the mmorpg scene into something diffrent.

 

Thanks for reading.

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Comments

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    The answer to the what ever happened to questions is.... nothing. Nothing happened to it.

     

    UO, AC, EQ they're all still running, so go play them and have fun.

  • aranhaaranha StockholmPosts: 170Member
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf


    The answer to the what ever happened to questions is.... nothing. Nothing happened to it.
     
    UO, AC, EQ they're all still running, so go play them and have fun.

     

    Yeah well sadly they arent fun forever...

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon

    they were not fun to begin with...

  • SignusMSignusM Checkmanistan, MAPosts: 2,225Member
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf


    The answer to the what ever happened to questions is.... nothing. Nothing happened to it.
     
    UO, AC, EQ they're all still running, so go play them and have fun.

    All of them have either been broken by expansions and patches that change the face of the game into something nothing like its former self, or are dead with no population and no dev support. Try again.

     

     

    As for what happened to good MMOs? WoW happened.

     

    MMOs are not made for people wanting to live in social virtual worlds anymore. Innovation doesn't happen anymore. MMOs are not made for us real MMO players, they are made for the super casual people who want to play pseudo single player games.

  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member

    OP - Try Darkfall.

    It is the closest thing I have experienced to an old school MMO in a long long time...

     

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SignusM


     are dead with no population 

     
     



     

    There you answered the question.  Not enough people wanted to play non-casual games  enough to make it cost effective to make a modern game in your hardcore style.

  • SignusMSignusM Checkmanistan, MAPosts: 2,225Member
    Originally posted by Horusra

    Originally posted by SignusM


     are dead with no population 

     
     



     

    There you answered the question.  Not enough people wanted to play non-casual games  enough to make it cost effective to make a modern game in your hardcore style.

    You have no clue how the industry works, do you? The reason most old MMOs are dead (DAoC for instance) is because they changed the game to try to be more like WoW, and then got abandoned as the company worked on new products to make WoW clones (WAR) 

     

    EverQuest was a HUGE success, it had almost 500 thousand subscribers at its peak. There's more than enough market for real MMOs. Here's the problem though, they take actual effort to create, whereas making a simple mini game instanced MMO like WoW, does not take much effort at all. Just big marketing. 

    The initial box sales for Vanguard proved the market for old style MMOs is still out there, the original MMO players didn't go away, they're just waiting for a game that isn't marketed at 2 year olds and kids with ADD. 

     

  • altairzqaltairzq barcelonaPosts: 3,811Member
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf


    The answer to the what ever happened to questions is.... nothing. Nothing happened to it.
     
    UO, AC, EQ they're all still running, so go play them and have fun.

     

    You sir are an ignorant of MMO history.

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Sarasota, FLPosts: 2,601Member
    Originally posted by aranha


    Im done searching for mmo's since the games just arent fun anymore. I play EvE from time to time and its great but wth happend in this genre?
     
    If we look back to the oldies of UO, EQ, AO, RO and the rest of the oldies there was passion and fun ideas for the games. There was something to do everyday and it was FUN!

     

    If it's events, specials, festivals and such that you are looking for then turn towards F2P.

    EVE Online: 'Dominion' Trailer Now on YouTube
    "...if there is a fair fight happening in new eden, both fcs did something wrong." - batolemaeus

  • LimitationsLimitations Painesville, OHPosts: 71Member Uncommon

    You know, i love the term old school. It's a realistic term, when it comes too gaming. I don't think we could ever fully return to old school games. Everything is now... "Flashy" don't flame for that term. I do love old school games. The new era is sort of taken over me. I hope it lasts though. We shall see. I hope developers learn from mistakes, and break new barriers.

    Who said this won't be perfect after all we know what is right
    And the sounds of bodies clashing is enough to make them cry.
    You know this cannot be perfect even when it is feeling right.
    And the sound of bodies crashing echo through the night.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SignusM

    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf


    The answer to the what ever happened to questions is.... nothing. Nothing happened to it.
     
    UO, AC, EQ they're all still running, so go play them and have fun.

    All of them have either been broken by expansions and patches that change the face of the game into something nothing like its former self, or are dead with no population and no dev support. Try again.

     

     

    As for what happened to good MMOs? WoW happened.

     

    MMOs are not made for people wanting to live in social virtual worlds anymore. Innovation doesn't happen anymore. MMOs are not made for us real MMO players, they are made for the super casual people who want to play pseudo single player games.



     

    I have a clue that games that are "hardcore" have a mediocre following close to what old day EQ1 had generating enough money to keep them alfoat but not for any spectacular hardware, coding, programmers, project leads, designers.  Instead you get an average graphics, average gameplay, average programers running it.  Bugs that last for months before fixes, content that is released in small pieces to an otherwise empty world, a lack luster support from the general public, and generally a 1-2 year run before they go free to play.....that is what "hardcore" gaming means now.  Time has proven.  If you want the flashy graphics, the best programmers, big budgets, commercials, people to whip up public support you need the casuals.  The ones with jobs and spendable cash for things that investors like to see....profits.  Why would I invest 2 million and get maybe if lucky a 10% return when I could get 200%+ if I invested in a WoW?  I fail to see how you think the market works.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by altairzq

    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf


    The answer to the what ever happened to questions is.... nothing. Nothing happened to it.
     
    UO, AC, EQ they're all still running, so go play them and have fun.

     

    You sir are an ignorant of MMO history.



     

    Please enlighten me, I can't wait.

  • ozy1ozy1 edinburghPosts: 309Member
    Originally posted by Anubisan


    OP - Try Darkfall.
    It is the closest thing I have experienced to an old school MMO in a long long time...
     

     

    Same

    Playing Darkfall EU1 Server

  • ScottcScottc Fort Walton Beach, FLPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by Horusra

    Originally posted by SignusM

    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf


    The answer to the what ever happened to questions is.... nothing. Nothing happened to it.
     
    UO, AC, EQ they're all still running, so go play them and have fun.

    All of them have either been broken by expansions and patches that change the face of the game into something nothing like its former self, or are dead with no population and no dev support. Try again.

     

     

    As for what happened to good MMOs? WoW happened.

     

    MMOs are not made for people wanting to live in social virtual worlds anymore. Innovation doesn't happen anymore. MMOs are not made for us real MMO players, they are made for the super casual people who want to play pseudo single player games.



     

    I have a clue that games that are "hardcore" have a mediocre following close to what old day EQ1 had generating enough money to keep them alfoat but not for any spectacular hardware, coding, programmers, project leads, designers.  Instead you get an average graphics, average gameplay, average programers running it.  Bugs that last for months before fixes, content that is released in small pieces to an otherwise empty world, a lack luster support from the general public, and generally a 1-2 year run before they go free to play.....that is what "hardcore" gaming means now.  Time has proven.  If you want the flashy graphics, the best programmers, big budgets, commercials, people to whip up public support you need the casuals.  The ones with jobs and spendable cash for things that investors like to see....profits.  Why would I invest 2 million and get maybe if lucky a 10% return when I could get 200%+ if I invested in a WoW?  I fail to see how you think the market works.

    Asheron's Call was an older MMORPG which could be considered oldschool.  I wouldn't really call it hardcore, and it's a surprise that it never gained mass appeal.  The game was designed in such a way where a newer player could get involved in the same activities with higher level players, and so a large time investment wasn't required.  A "casual" could've easily had fun in that game.

    Also I think you're wrong about the 200% return on investing in a WoW clone.  I mean really, consider that most of the old MMORPGs that people reminisce about came out long before PC gaming and the internet were popular socially acceptable things.  For some reason the next MMORPGs that came out were a completely different style that were more structured and easier for people who were mentally retarded to play, but lacked the substance of the old ones.  For you to say the tried and true MMORPGs are the only ones that will be wildly successful is just silly, because a game like Asheron's Call or Ultima Online hasn't even been attempted with the current market.

  • Originally posted by Horusra

    Originally posted by SignusM


     are dead with no population 

     
     



     

    There you answered the question.  Not enough people wanted to play non-casual games  enough to make it cost effective to make a modern game in your hardcore style.

     

    That's the silliest correlation I've ever seen.  They're 10+ years old with dated graphics.  Of course they're going to have much smaller populations than newer games.  

  • SenorHappySenorHappy Chicago, ILPosts: 28Member

    I'm not sure if you're simply looking to vent or if you're reaching out to other players, but there are still at least some games developed for an audience with a more old-school mindset like yours.

     

    Vanguard aims more directly to the first Everquest mindset, Darkfall more to the Ultima Online.  Mortal Online, still in development, is in many ways similar to Darkfall.  You might also consider Ryzom for the sandbox appeal.  Or if you are looking further to the realm of "virtual world", consider Wurm Online or even Second Life.

  • aranhaaranha StockholmPosts: 170Member
    Originally posted by Horusra

    Originally posted by SignusM


     are dead with no population 

     
     



     

    There you answered the question.  Not enough people wanted to play non-casual games  enough to make it cost effective to make a modern game in your hardcore style.

     

    Yeah becose EvE Online sure doesnt have a loyal or big player base right? And they arent successfull right?

     

    And wth is up with your hardcore style thing? Its has nothing to do with hardcore it has to do with freedom and the fun of advancing.

  • MMOmakerMMOmaker Ocala, FLPosts: 77Member

    Keep asking. The sort of games you want will come. Game developers are starting to listen. Game engines and development tools are getting cheaper and easier to use all the time. Massive numbers of indie game development teams are trying to build games that recapture what was good about UO and EQ. Most of them don't have the money or the expertise or the commitment to succeed, but some of them do.

    I am a game developer. I was lead developer for the Magic of the Gods MMORPG. Unfortunately it's offline now, but I'm working on bringing it back or doing a new one.

    You and countless others are asking for the same thing.  You are not alone. Old school gamers are not too small a market to matter. Game developers are not ignoring you.  We hear you. We're working on it.

     

     

     

     

     

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zaxxon23

    Originally posted by Horusra

    Originally posted by SignusM


     are dead with no population 

     
     



     

    There you answered the question.  Not enough people wanted to play non-casual games  enough to make it cost effective to make a modern game in your hardcore style.

     

    That's the silliest correlation I've ever seen.  They're 10+ years old with dated graphics.  Of course they're going to have much smaller populations than newer games.  



     

    the question is why will Devs not give "real MMORPG's"...not why do people not play older games.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scottc


    Asheron's Call was an older MMORPG which could be considered oldschool.  I wouldn't really call it hardcore, and it's a surprise that it never gained mass appeal.  The game was designed in such a way where a newer player could get involved in the same activities with higher level players, and so a large time investment wasn't required.  A "casual" could've easily had fun in that game.
    Also I think you're wrong about the 200% return on investing in a WoW clone.  I mean really, consider that most of the old MMORPGs that people reminisce about came out long before PC gaming and the internet were popular socially acceptable things.  For some reason the next MMORPGs that came out were a completely different style that were more structured and easier for people who were mentally retarded to play, but lacked the substance of the old ones.  For you to say the tried and true MMORPGs are the only ones that will be wildly successful is just silly, because a game like Asheron's Call or Ultima Online hasn't even been attempted with the current market.



     

    I did not say investing in a WoW clone...I said investing in the next WoW as in the next smash hit based off principals that are inclusive not exclusive, as most hardcore games are.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aranha

    Originally posted by Horusra

    Originally posted by SignusM


     are dead with no population 

     
     



     

    There you answered the question.  Not enough people wanted to play non-casual games  enough to make it cost effective to make a modern game in your hardcore style.

     

    Yeah becose EvE Online sure doesnt have a loyal or big player base right? And they arent successfull right?

     

    And wth is up with your hardcore style thing? Its has nothing to do with hardcore it has to do with freedom and the fun of advancing.



     

    you should go back and read the OP's statement before you post.  He lists older games that are generally concidered grinders and "hardcore" to modern games.  EQ1 was not about freedom.  As to the fun of advancing just about any game that has progression has the joy of advancing.  Even games I hate when I play them it is fun when you advance and get to try new stuff even in a few days later you realize you hate the gameplay.

    Eve Online really has nothing to do with this discussion.  if you want to defend Eve take it up with the OP that does not concider it a real MMORPG.

  • uquipuuquipu Roma, PAPosts: 1,516Member

     Nostalgia makes things seem better than they were.  Listen to old people talk about the old days.  They never seem to mention Jim Crow or polio.

     

    Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren

  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Winthrop Harbor, ILPosts: 732Member
    Originally posted by uquipu


     Nostalgia makes things seem better than they were.  Listen to old people talk about the old days.  They never seem to mention Jim Crow or polio.
     

     

    Yeah no kidding. It seems more and more people create these types of threads. Obviously things will never be like the way they were when the older games were around because the genre was completely new and unexplored territory. The MMO industry evolves and is continuing to evolve. Now that there is a bigger population, players' expectations are evolving and just because you (the OP and other complainers) think the MMORPG's being released now isn't fun for you, doesn't mean it isn't fun for most of the player population. Maybe its not the developing companies that are failing but maybe certain players' expectations that just aren't being satisfied to the level they expect it at. Sure, developing companies aren't the most perfect and they make their fair share of mistakes but I think some of you are getting a little too demanding in terms of what "should" be in an MMORPG. And just because you think certain features and traits would be perfect in an MMORPG, doesn't mean it'll be seen in the same light amongst most of the playing population within the genre. Games still evolve at a somewhat slower pace (actually MMO's have been evolving at a much faster pace to most other genres I would say, but massive changes aren't going to happen over night or even within a year). Patience, people, patience. 

  • aranhaaranha StockholmPosts: 170Member
    Originally posted by Horusra

    Originally posted by aranha

    Originally posted by Horusra

    Originally posted by SignusM


     are dead with no population 

     
     



     

    There you answered the question.  Not enough people wanted to play non-casual games  enough to make it cost effective to make a modern game in your hardcore style.

     

    Yeah becose EvE Online sure doesnt have a loyal or big player base right? And they arent successfull right?

     

    And wth is up with your hardcore style thing? Its has nothing to do with hardcore it has to do with freedom and the fun of advancing.



     

    you should go back and read the OP's statement before you post.  He lists older games that are generally concidered grinders and "hardcore" to modern games.  EQ1 was not about freedom.  As to the fun of advancing just about any game that has progression has the joy of advancing.  Even games I hate when I play them it is fun when you advance and get to try new stuff even in a few days later you realize you hate the gameplay.

    Eve Online really has nothing to do with this discussion.  if you want to defend Eve take it up with the OP that does not concider it a real MMORPG.

     

    No those are mmorpg made for mmorpg players. Not like WOW,WAR,LOTRO,AION that is aimed at the casual crowd. Theres a big diffrence between hardcore and old school. In most older games you didnt rush lvl to go do raids all day long.

    PS: I am the OP of this post.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon

    Eve Online is based totally on a different mechanics that would not work in games where you are a character instead of a ship.  If everyone had access to everything like AC1 you do not end up with unique characters...you end up with everyone working up the same 1-3 builds.  Eve is unique in that your ship controls what skills you can use at a certain time.  The only thing close to that leveling would be if you could only heal if you had a staff or something like that.

    I would say in old school games it was all about grinding...same that it is in Eve really.  To many people grinding is the devil.  Meantion it and a lot of people go nuts.  Look at Aion.  Trying to find a mass of people that agree that grinding is the future of MMORPGs is going to be impossible.  EQ1 did not need raids you just stood in 1 of 5 areas for your level and killed the mobs that spawned...same with AC1.  Wow I have the freedom to pick between those 5 areas till I out level the mobs.

    While Eve is successful there are level of success in the business world.  A hot dog stand that make a profit is successful but not as successful as an oil company.  Where would you invest your money if all you cared about was the most profit.  The masses have spoken and casual style play MMORPG's are the future. 

    I personally do not like raids.  I prefer small group activities that is why I like Eve at times because a small group can pretty much do everything.  I do not come to MMO's to test my massive group management skills to get 20+ people to do stop talking on the phone, watch how much time they have till their parents come and tell them to go to bed, deal with interpersonal relationships, lagging of atleast 5 people, power outage, sister need the computer, etc....

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