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Death Penilty In COS
sharif
Member UncommonPosts: 28
So what happens when you die? Do you lose anything? Do you start a new character? Better yet if your arch nemeses kills you. Will all the hate between you two end as though you are a new person? I didn't find these answers on the web site. Any insight would be nice.
Oh one more thing This game just sounds too good to be true. Here is to wishful thinking!! I just hope they don't change anything from what they said they would do.
Comments
I couldn't find a lot of information on death either. There is a post from 8/10/08 on here called, "Some topics, thoughts etc. about the game". Jatar answers some questions about it in there, but it seems that they haven't released all the information yet. He does say that death is not permanent, which isn't surprising in an MMO.
Maybe he will respond to this. I don't think i have seen many devs from other games that come on here and Communicate with there fans. Its very refreshing to see that from the devs at SOC. All I can keeps saying in my head is that this game is just too good to be true lol.
Isn't that the question everyone wants answered in life? What happens when you die? Hmm, I could wax philosophical... but I won't. Instead, about death in Citadel of Sorcery: we want death to matter, but we don't want to kill players who have put in months (years?) of time on their character. So, death is not permanent... well, for some.
Fallen Heroes are 'of the blood' in the world of CoS, and people playing our game are Fallen Heroes. Those of the blood are special in this world, for they are descendants of the first sorcerer who was not present when the world was 'reflected'. So their souls do not easily cross the veil, and they can be resurrected, but normal folk of the world cannot. Thus, when you kill your arch nemesis, he's probably dead forever (unless he is also of the blood, but that's unlikely).
So now you know you can be resurrected as a player, but at what cost? Well, that was the crux of the matter, for we need it to matter. Any game where death is not punished has no tension, no excitement. You need something to protect in order for battles and other dangers to matter. So we have decided on a system that both rewards the player for staying alive and punishes them for dying. The longer you stay alive the greater the reward (to a point) and the more you die the worse it is for you (again, to a point). But, more than that I'm not allowed to release. The actual punishment for dying and reward for staying alive will have to wait for later when we get to Beta (or somewhere thereabout). No, we're still not close to that, and don't ask, we won't tell.
As to your last point, we're still right on track to deliver exactly what we promised. We refuse to deliver anything less. Just be patient, Rome wasn't built in a day.
Isn't that the question everyone wants answered in life? What happens when you die? Hmm, I could wax philosophical... but I won't. Instead, about death in Citadel of Sorcery: we want death to matter, but we don't want to kill players who have put in months (years?) of time on their character. So, death is not permanent... well, for some.
Fallen Heroes are 'of the blood' in the world of CoS, and people playing our game are Fallen Heroes. Those of the blood are special in this world, for they are descendants of the first sorcerer who was not present when the world was 'reflected'. So their souls do not easily cross the veil, and they can be resurrected, but normal folk of the world cannot. Thus, when you kill your arch nemesis, he's probably dead forever (unless he is also of the blood, but that's unlikely).
So now you know you can be resurrected as a player, but at what cost? Well, that was the crux of the matter, for we need it to matter. Any game where death is not punished has no tension, no excitement. You need something to protect in order for battles and other dangers to matter. So we have decided on a system that both rewards the player for staying alive and punishes them for dying. The longer you stay alive the greater the reward (to a point) and the more you die the worse it is for you (again, to a point). But, more than that I'm not allowed to release. The actual punishment for dying and reward for staying alive will have to wait for later when we get to Beta (or somewhere thereabout). No, we're still not close to that, and don't ask, we won't tell.
As to your last point, we're still right on track to deliver exactly what we promised. We refuse to deliver anything less. Just be patient, Rome wasn't built in a day.
Thanks for all the answers Jatar. I have to say this again. Its really great you guys come on here and respond to your fans...from what I read on other posts and what I'm seeing .. I don't think there is a single mmo that responds this honestly and quickly to there fans, and i have plaid many mmo. My favorite was SWG before the Nerf. but that was a long time ago.. I think SOC will be the best mmo i have ever played. Just reading about it makes me want to speed up time so you guys can finish!!!. lol I wish you all the best of luck as do many others on here i'm sure.
I too, can't wait to start dying in CoS... er... that didn't sound right. Ah, I too can't wait to start cheating death so that I can be rewarded for staying alive (and avoid whatever that penalty might be). I really like the idea that it just isn't a penalty system, but a reward or penalty. So I guess when I've stayed alive for a length of time I'm getting some kind of bonus? That would be neat, it would make me want to be more and more careful not to die. And the more I don't want to die, the more exciting things would become in a battle.
I have a great hope that death will involve an underworld of some type or some quest type that means time and effort to return to "The real world".
The fact that this game plays as a story and involves reasonably sized groups means I hope that there is a clever way of supporting this. Recalling a party member straight back to a party should be a no no. But players with ressurection and healing abilities could maybe cover a faster return.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I understand the lure of your idea, but in the end I think this would be too annoying. The first time it might be cool, even the second or third, but after you keep dying (over time, I'm not into zerg rushes) and having to work your way out of 'underworld' it would get bothersome. I don't like to die a lot in a game, I take pride in staying alive, yet... it's ineviatable that you're going to die occasionally or you have to be too careful.
I like a punishment for dying, but not one that takes too long. It should be something I fear, but not something that keeps me from continuing my game. I also like the idea of this reward for staying alive that they mentioned. Sort of the reverse of a punishment (though they said they have that too). Now I have a reason to stay alive, and a punishment if I keep dying (like a zerg rush player).
But I wonder what the punishment is in this game? Money, EXP, equipment wear, resurrection sickness? Just curious.
I understand the lure of your idea, but in the end I think this would be too annoying. The first time it might be cool, even the second or third, but after you keep dying (over time, I'm not into zerg rushes) and having to work your way out of 'underworld' it would get bothersome. I don't like to die a lot in a game, I take pride in staying alive, yet... it's ineviatable that you're going to die occasionally or you have to be too careful.
I like a punishment for dying, but not one that takes too long. It should be something I fear, but not something that keeps me from continuing my game. I also like the idea of this reward for staying alive that they mentioned. Sort of the reverse of a punishment (though they said they have that too). Now I have a reason to stay alive, and a punishment if I keep dying (like a zerg rush player).
But I wonder what the punishment is in this game? Money, EXP, equipment wear, resurrection sickness? Just curious.
Well faction hits penalties for failure ... mayhap people will not talk to you anymore. maybe with every death your soul weakens...
I am sure we will see at some point, one thing for sure is the death will potentially be part of your story this is what I hope.
One thing is for sure theres not saved games so they have great potential to make it mean something in this game especially when it is so storyline orientated.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Oh so a penalty and a reward?That seems quite good,just make sure the penalty is realy a penalty and not like in newer games where they just give you a boost in your character strength if you stay alive and if you die you lose it,it realy doesn't make much of a difference.
Also I don't think anyone would want to resurect your arch nemesis if he was attacking another Fallen Hero(this is if he truly is a another fallen hero which by the lore does seem unlikely),why would he be attacking you anyway?Stop being bad to people before deciding to go with the Enchantress to the DarkHalls,you migth both go back to life you know?!
Believe me when I tell you that you won't want to die in Citadel of Sorcery. We believe that a game has no real tension and players have no pride if they feel that dying doesn't matter. To put it simply, it's boring. Players need to take pride in staying alive and have a little fear of death, that will put the spice into living. The trick was we needed to make it so that you REALLY didn't want to die, and yet not debilitate your character so much when you do die that you cannot function and have fun while you recover. We believe we have the right mix now, and the penalty is pretty sever, again, without making it so that you cannot continue to play and enjoy the game. But further details will have to wait (we can't give everything away!)
As to your second point, if someone is 'Of the Blood' that does not make them a Fallen Hero, but all Fallen Heroes are of the Blood. 'Of the Blood' means that the person can trace their blood line back to the first sorcerer. Fallen Heroes were people of the Blood who joined the Enchantress, and fell when they went into the Darkhalls to rescue her from the demons. So, your nemesis might be of the Blood and could get resurrected. However, it is unlikely in most cases and he would never be one of the Fallen Heroes. Hope that clears that up somewhat, Tanque.
Oh yes completly forgot it's those Of Blood that can be resurected and not only Fallen Heroes,I realy like the lore,in the demon's part I was wondering that if you would corrupt yourself to enough grim they would have no reason to feed on you but there was the part where they feed on death to,well played,this and their hatred since their defeat against the sorcerors would problably make them kill at least both humans and verduren on sight,well truth be told they problably don't hold a grudge against Tyven and Jenemos as much as other races since they were "made" after the Second Age of Darkness.(they would still kill them for feeding of course,after the Second Age of Darkness ends it's prety much all about Morphael and the Eyes of Darkness)
Well, certainly if you corrupted yourself with grim then demons would have no reason to feed on you... but... that's like saying, 'if I take deadly poison there is no reason for that guy to kill me". In other words, the cure you propose is as bad as the sickness. Becoming extremely grim is detrimental to your health in many ways. For one it can damage your soul and that has dire consequences to your character's health since it lowers the total hit points you have available to be damaged.
You'll want to keep your character in balance, that's the goal in this world. If you get out of balance toward Radiance you won't do much damage to opponents, too much to the Grim side and your soul may take damage (and then death and insanity aren't far behind). Radiant and and Grim are not 'good' and 'evil', but something much different. By staying in balance you can do lots of damage to your opponents and stay in good health yourself (as a simple example).
As to the current age, and it all being about Morphael and the Eyes of Darkness, ask yourself this... do you think the demons will be content to sit this war out... or are they hatching some new plot? I'll never tell, but there is a lot of story to come. This is part of the fun of Citadel of Sorcery. We don't have a back story that you read and then forget because it doesn't matter. The story of this world moves forward each day and the history (lore) you read continues to evolve as you play the game. You will be personally involved in that story and those epic events still to unfold.
You seem to have really looked at the Lore... that's a good idea. All players will become interested in that Lore eventually because it will impact their character's personal adventures and story. You will be part of a living evolving world and story, and what you do can affect elements of the world.
It's funny, we constantly get emails (and posts) from players comparing Citadel of Sorcery to this and that other MMO, when in fact there is no other MMO like this game. We designed it to be a new style of MMO game play from the ground up. It sounds simple to say that time moves on and each day is new, but you really have to understand the massive difference this makes compared to an MMO that has the same day repeated over and over (like pretty much any of the WoW style MMO games). This one difference (and there are many more) sets Citadel of Sorcery into a new area of game play. Simply put, you can never expect the same thing to be happening today as yesterday. Trust no one, trust no place always be on your guard. You are in a world where life is moving on, plots are developing, wars are progressing, your enemies are plotting against you and evil is afoot from three sides (the dark sorcerers of the Citadel, Morphael and the demons). And those are just the factions you know about.
All right, I'll quit waxing on today, besides I'll probably start giving away things that are not meant to be given away
And its' Christmas so chill out and have a few Beers and then !!!! Continue this post....
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
And its' Christmas so chill out and have a few Beers and then !!!! Continue this post....
Just wait for christmas,last year they released some screenshots if I remember correctly, but I think I saw Jatar saying they wouldn't release screenshots for a while but they are giving us a christmas present according to the November update,maybe a new race page or two hopefully.
This all sounds very exciting and, yes, very different. I hope you guys can actually pull it off.
I hope they can pull it off too. I mean, you shouldn't get your hopes up in life, especially about games. Too often I get excited about a game coming only to be disappointed later. But... I'm an optimist, therefore I will go once again into the foray and hope that CoS CAN deliver what they say.
Look at the bright side, they are talking about so many improvements to the game play side that if even half of them are achieved this will be a game I want to play. But, could I hope for ALL of the promises? Sure, why not? It's like picking up a toothpick as weapon and heading for the dragon's cave... the same dragon that has killed me twelve times. But what the hell? I believe I can take him, and I believe that the CoS team is at least trying to deliver new and better game play.
I really like the idea of a heavy death penalty, but not one that cripples the player. I just hate having to wait while I recover before I can get back to the fun, and yet I want to have death matter so that players don't just zerg rush everything. Seems like this system might be what I'm looking for, but I'll have to hear more details before I'm sure
Still, sounds promising.
Since the devs say they aren't ready to go into too much detail about the CoS death system, what do you guys prefer? Do you like losing EXP? Or having to collect a grave stone / soul shart? Or what about having to get your corpse back? What other ideas?
Any type of death penalty I'm okay with, as long as I don't lose my equipments in the process.. Imagine questing for a month trying to make the sword of your dreams then .. you make a mistake, lag, or get distracted and BAM! a month's work down the sink... Not a pretty experience. Now if that happened as a roleplay aspect, I can live with that, but I'm not up to recreating all my gear every time I die..
Loss of XP has to be one of the worst death penalties there could be.
Loss of items is something I could deal with, but it would depend on how replaceable most of the items I would be using are.
In a nutshell, if death sets my progress back TOO dramatically, and if death is fairly unavoidable/frequent, I'll be a lot less likely to play.
Runescape has item loss on death, and I've been playing for years. It makes unknown situations exciting, but if I'm going someplace I'm unsure of, I don't take my best gear. But that model lends itself to Runescape because all the areas are known and you can avoid danger easily.
In a dynamic world like CoS is supposed to be, death is going to be lurking around every corner. So having a severe death penalty is really going to slow down the flow of the game, either by making players overly cautious, or they'll die a lot.
Death penalties should be an inconvenience. The more inconvenient you make it, the fewer players the game will appeal to.
I would be wise, though, to err on the side of less inconvenience. No one's going to play or recommend a game because of how "awesomely punitive the death penalty is!" If you can't find the perfect balance, make it less punitive.
We who play EVE (or Darkfall) would strongly disagree with you.
But I think for this game that wouldn't work out so well so CoS should probably have something less punitive since its more about the journey, and less about building empires and controlling others.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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We who play EVE (or Darkfall) would strongly disagree with you.
But I think for this game that wouldn't work out so well so CoS should probably have something less punitive since its more about the journey, and less about building empires and controlling others.
I Don't like the idea of this game appealing to EVE, and Darkfall players They are the minority.
I believe this game should stick to its original goal of being a totally different type of MMO where they should not feel like they have to please ever type of player, because in doing that we will get a watered down version of COS. If The Devs At COS start trying to please everyone then in the proses they will have them self a crappy game that looks like every other mmo out there.
Lets just put it this way. WOW has its type of players, EVE, Darkfall has its type of players and COS will have its type of players. I am really asking the devs to not steer past there original vision just to please the endless types of players. The only reason wow, EVE, and darkfall are downing well is because they don't try and change the main idea of the game they had invisoned like for example SWG that did and suffered for it. So again please don't try and please everyone if they don't like it they can find themselves a different game. This also goes for the people who think COS is anti social and not very group friendly. There are games for people who like raids that take 6-8 hrs of your time. there are people who like PVP that totally destroys everything you worked for and then there are games that are in between. However this is COS and its way to early to tell what kind of game it will be, but from what i read its totally different then any other game, and we should not try and make it like other games let COS be the truly different type of game we been waiting for and stop trying to force it into this type of game or that.
Have no fear, Citadel of Sorcery and the MMO Magic team will not compromise on our goals for this game. We know we can't please everyone, but we believe that a new and fun kind of MMO game will attract a good portion of players, and that's all we want. Well, that and to make a game WE all want to play
. After all, besides being developers we enjoy playing games as well and would not have gone into this industry had we not.
We're often interested in what people like in a game to get an idea if there are people who will enjoy the way we are doing something, more than about changing it because one or two people complain or have another idea. Our system for 'death' in the game is unique. Not earth shaking perhaps, but different. We believe it is a good system that fits the game play of our world. In the most general of terms it has a pretty sever penalty for dying. But that penalty does not cripple your character so you can get right back into the adventure without having to wait for some punishment to wear off. On the other hand, you do lose something and the punishment lasts for some time. Also, dying over and over increases the punishment. This sounds harsh, but remember, no matter how many times you die your character isn't crippled.
On top of that there is a reward system in place to reward players for staying alive. This is the carrot to death's axe. We believe that the system will give players a sense of pride (and reward) for avoiding death, and give them something to protect. When death happens they will stop gaining those rewards for a time, and take a loss. Dying more will further delay those rewards.
Anyway, I'm dancing around giving you the details so I'm going to stop how. But, when you play it we think a lot of people will like it, but being a very touchy and much argued area of game design (just look at that thread called DEATH! blah blah in the Pub) there is no way we're going to please everyone. But... that was inevitable. We'll settle for pleasing a lot of people (hopefully).
Well this is a perfect game for me and I still have a live EvE account and played DFO strange. The pure nature of this game sets it out from the rest as it is purely storyline driven, with all the niceties sat around your personal storyline.. You can complete what will be released as an initial chapter and then I understand you have completed the so called main storyline until another chapter is releasd.
I for one will love a community based game full of people who like toplay games and smaller group opportunities appeal to me as well as having solo and raid content that can be done (if you wish but not forced).
I think most of us want to try to play the COS in the developers vision. Some of us remember great games and communities in the good old days, I think COS has a good chance of emulating this.
But please don't crucify people for playing other MMOs it is a little selfish.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Well this is a perfect game for me and I still have a live EvE account and played DFO strange. The pure nature of this game sets it out from the rest as it is purely storyline driven, with all the niceties sat around your personal storyline.. You can complete what will be released as an initial chapter and then I understand you have completed the so called main storyline until another chapter is releasd.
I for one will love a community based game full of people who like toplay games and smaller group opportunities appeal to me as well as having solo and raid content that can be done (if you wish but not forced).
I think most of us want to try to play the COS in the developers vision. Some of us remember great games and communities in the good old days, I think COS has a good chance of emulating this.
But please don't crucify people for playing other MMOs it is a little selfish.
Sorry if i sounded selfish. What i meant by all that was lets not try and change COS, and that if you like raids and heart pounding PVP where you can loose everything you worked for then there are games for that also.