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Anyone love to see this? (LONG)
Goatgod76
Member Posts: 1,214
* The following LONG-winded post (As many will put it) is simply my "vision", or idea of an MMO I would LOVE to play/see personally. Something I would love to see some company have the marbles to produce someday. I'm writing this out of the curiousity of how many others may (Or may not) be dreaming of such an MMO and to hear your thoughts/opinions and ideas to to add or take away* I realize that the following will not appeal to the masses more than likely. I also realize that I may have overlooked some things in the negative sense of some ideas, so please, instead of trolling of simply flaming these negative aspects, point it out by all means, but tell WHY you think so, and provide a possible idea/solution of your own. I'd like to keep this a civil thread. Would you be interested? Not so much? Why? What would you do different in a particular area? Why?
Again, these are just my ideas and opinions, not my thoughts of what NEEDS to be, just what I'd like to see personally. *
Meat of the MMO dream:
- HUGE open world. I'm talking (if possible) twice the size of game worlds like WoW's etc. Unfortunately having a world of such size would more than likely have to have zones, but maybe they could be divided up in bigger chunks so their isn't overloads of..er, loading times between areas. There would be a map everyone would have...standard in most MMO's, HOWEVER, it would only be the main continents that the different races start on. The rest of the map can be filled in as discovered by the player. Allows for player's to be Cartographer's as a profession.
- (Along with the first one) Better interactive AI. More along the lines of the wildlife interacting with one another. Wolves chasing down rabbits, deer running together and sparing or rubbing their antlers on nearby trees, bears catching fish in rivers, etc. Not simply standing around waiting to be killed or wandering the same 10 foot area aimlessly. More time to do such things, but could be done IMO. Make it more alive.
- No levels. Simply skill based as where player's explore and fight mobs, their selected skills raise in experience through use letting the skills become more powerful as you go. Was thinking of a system where maybe casters can combine spells to make new magic effects (I.E. Scorch spell & AOE Meteor spell to make Wrath of Heaven Massive dmg AoE spell(Made up names for sake of explanation). Just makes for longer cooldown or spell, or more mana use as drawback. Maybe even a backfire for HP loss. Would have to be played with to get a good system.
- No NPC's standing around with question marks of exclamation points over their heads for quests. There would be very few quests in the game at all. But occasionally you could come across some NPC's in your adventures that you can talk to that may give you a special quest adventure, or tell you of places of mystery and myth that you can decipher and possibly discover through his/her words. Example: Maybe you are exploring and find a strange cave. Deep inside you find what appears to be the tattered remains of a party of adventurer's of some kind that appeared to have been attacked by something. You hear moans coming from somewhere in the cave and cautiously follow the sounds. You discover an adventurer, obviously from the attacked party that is still alive, but dying. He tells you that the cave is actually is a passageway to (Insert area name) through the other side, a shortcut to this place that would otherwise only be reached by boat, and they were headed there when attacked by (insert mob name). He tells you they were caught off guard and outnumbered. He tells you he had escaped the slaughter, but not unscathed, and how important it was to get some documents found on him to (insert town name) to stave certain disaster. He asks you if you will take it there. He says he will tell you the directions to the town if you agree, at which point if you do agree they will appear on your map.
You can be given choices at this point to: A) Agree to take them there, where a timer starts. 
Refuse and leave him to die. C) Take the map from him by force and whatever else he carries and let him die anyway.
You can take the map to get the added info to your map, but you can decide to NOT take the documents to the town if you want. Here's the kicker...what you decide effects other player's. If you take the documents to the town (within the time limit of course), all is well and the leader's of the town will sound the warning horns and NPC guards will spawn and march a short ways out of the town to attack a raiding party camp of (Insert mob type used here) that had planned to attack the town before they get a chance (What the documents revealed). Players can assist the guards if desired.
If you DON'T decide to do it, or don't make the time limit, the documents never make it to the town, and the town is surprised with the raiding party attack, effecting the patrons of the town at the time, but still possibly making it a fun surprise for them to be part of. Yes, it's a "take this and deliver it" type, but at least it isn't ONLY that. It can still provide a twist.
Every quest (those that ARE included) should be just that, quests. Advanced story arcs that you can decide to take part of, or not to. NOT required tasks for advancement. No kill/collect X amount of X" quests. Everyone of them SHOULD be story driven, even possibly chain quests that lead you to new and mysterious places.
- Find treasure boxes throughout the world. Some could hold treasures, others maybe old maps that you can decipher, or have a cartographer decipher and add to your current map for you to explore, some boxes may hold clues for possible quests or mystery places, etc.
- Crafting that is interactive. More than just put these items together and hit "combined" Sort of like Vanguard's crafting system. Actually use the equipment. Crafter items (Since their are no levels) can be constantly upgraded as desired. So you can have dozens of the same item, but at different quality levels that can be used dependent on the player's skill levels or affordability. Blacksmithing, Weapon Smithing, Fletching, Cartographer (Make maps), Carpentry (Build ships), Alchemy, Cooking, Jewler, etc.
- Open world PvP. Because of what I have included (No levels, skill system, etc.), PvP can be meaningful all around ( dependent on what reward system is included. I haven't thought that out yet. Anyone else want to add?)and can't be blamed on a difference in levels. The difference would be in WHAT skills you select to use and how you use them being the deciding factor between victory and defeat. I'd like to see it set up in sort of a Final Fantasy setup using a tree branching skill system. It would branch off in different areas (Melee skills, ranged skills, survival skills (Defensive/Regeneration), etc, but if you committed to one branch or another, you wouldn't be FORCED to continue down that branch if you didn't wish to. How far you wish to advance down that skill tree is up to you, but you can branch off different directions as you desire. Build it to your play style strengths. No safezones except Guild quarters. Even vulnerability in cities...just have to watch for guards because they WILL attack.
It's long enough already lol. I know their is probably tons more that could be added so please, add your opinions or thoughts or ideas. It's just interesting to see what others can add or come up with when we spend more time working together instead of sitting here at each others throats 24/7 over post composition, etc. Thanks...and I apologize if you have a headache and your eyes are bleeding. =P
Comments
Don't include Open world PVP without some reason for really needing it. Also, you will need some sort of notoriety, law/outlaw, red/blue system in place, and an effective means of players policing themselves. If you do not give players a way to effectively police themselves, your game will end up as a gankfest, endless PVP game which will lose all other aspects of the sandbox.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Don't include Open world PVP without some reason for really needing it. Also, you will need some sort of notoriety, law/outlaw, red/blue system in place, and an effective means of players policing themselves. If you do not give players a way to effectively police themselves, your game will end up as a gankfest, endless PVP game which will lose all other aspects of the sandbox.
I agree. I added that I didn't think of that yet. Got some ideas yourself to add? Personally and honestly, I was never real big into PvP...but I'd LIKE to be. I did it for 2 years in EVE and loved it. But it's different in your general PvP fantasy games (WoW, etc). It's as you said and not really fun.
As I said, I'd like for others to participate in the thread with their own ideas so we can build on this for shits n' giggles. When I have more time I'll think of some possible ideas myself as well.
This is where you've described my ideal MMO. I can tolerate a lot of things, but the only thing I really can't handle anymore is the quest-driven leveling system with thousands of completely meaningless tasks to complete. They only exist to disguise the grind, but if you put on your "grind-spotting glasses" (I just made that up!
), you can see it in all its glory. The only real difference is you have to run around more.
I would LOVE to see a few meaningful quests (without a mini-map icon showing you where to go for the love of all that is holy!!) that take a while to complete, are interesting, and have some sort of effect on the game world. They shouldn't be required to advance, but should be worthwhile. Of course, with any system like this eventually all the quest locations and their requisite steps will be posted online, ruining them to some extent. But before that happens, they could be really cool.
The rest of things you brought up sound great, but honestly are just icing on the cake to a less inane quest system than we see these days.
So...
Basically a single-player rpg (like oblivion/gothic) mixed with mmo elements...
Great idea
only...
the amount of people + world affecting quests can be a tricky thing to execute.
Its possible, only itd take teeth-aching amount of work into developing world such as this.
Except for the pvp elements, you are describing Morrowind/Oblivion.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
The wolves chasing rabbits thing doesn't enhance my gaming experience in any way. Seems to just eat up computer resources for no real reason.
the biggest thing I dislike in your description is use it to increase it skills.
This is the worst system of character advancement in my opinion.
When DF was getting ready to release, I predicted scripts to raise your skills while you slept, and sure enough that is exactly what happened because DF has a use it to increase it skill system.
Basically, if you shoot a magic missile, whatever it's called in DF, your skill goes up. So people would run a script, have their character face a tree and shoot magic missiles all night long to raise the skill. I think that's not a fun way to play a game. Then if you did not have your character do this, you'd have skill level 5, and the other guy would have skill level 100.
It also encourages players to use skills that need raising, not use skills that make sense.
I COULD kill that orc with one sword swing. OR I could shoot him with 10 arrows and kill him. Which will I do? One sword swing makes sense right? Nope, I need to raise my bow skill, so I'm going to shoot him ten times, which seems goofy to me, but if that's how you raise your skill, that's what you gotta do.
I see your points.
As far as the environmental effects..I suppose it wouldn't have to be all the time. But it would be nice to see SOME form of environmental interaction. I don't believe it would eat up anymore resources than weather effects do that other games have. Which...would be another thing I'd like and have to look at
.
For the skills idea, I see the possibility of exploit now that you mention it. This is why I asked for those that came here to also maybe give ideas for how to get around (stop actually) such things. Possibly make the skill balancing of mobs increase with the further distancing from cities? Although someone could do that, if the mobs in the area are also scaled in skill (Giving it's an area further from civilization), the orc (If not an archer) could do the same, which would then make it better to kill him from distance with the bow. I know your example was just to illustrate a point BTW
. What you say can be true for the PvE portion, and I'll have to look into it more. But for PvP that gimps the player IMO because it makes them 1 dimensional and another players can have a possible plethora of variations in their selected skill set to counter it.
I'll keep toying with ways to do this...their is ALWAYS a way to do something to fix issues. You just have to think outside of the box. I just dislike levels/leveling because as another put it...it's just a way to mask "grind". I realize you can never really get rid of grind because it's always there in one form or another (Raising skills), but it can be masked better, or minimized and not made as obvious...which a lot of companies lately haven't grasped apparently lol.
To the others comments above...no, I'm not going for a single-player only feel. I intend for group content, I just haven't added that to this thread yet. The original post was long enough at the time and I DO work
. I just woke up from a nasty/weird dream so checking responses thus far. Back to bed. 
Will add group content thoughts tomorrow....er, later today I guess is what I wanted to say.
Again, something i overlooked considering the timer element. What if several people are trying to do the same quest at the same time? What then?....question NOW posed to myself begging solutions.
Maybe make the quest unavailable until the timer resets, make the NPC simply appear dead to the next adventurer that comes along while the quest is in use. Add more to these thoughts later.
Ok, work is done for the day, so allow me add about grouping.
I would most definitely want grouping to be within my game design. I would want the difficulty level to actually be a bit tougher than soloing. That doesn't mean soloing would be easy by any means. I want it to be challenging as well. But I want grouping to be a challenge for a group as well so they don't get bored with it and simply solo through the game because their are no benefits to grouping.
Also, I would want the rewards for grouping to be slightly better than soloing. Not by a ton, just slightly better. And everyone in the group would get a reward. It wouldn't be a case of drudging through a dungeon just to get to the end, kill a boss, and have to roll against the rest of the group for one item. Nothing has killed my drive to group and quest more (Other than FINDING and retaining a group in the first place) than having to do the same dungeon a thousand times just trying to get a drop.
I guess I never did mention in any of my posts yet about the differences between player made gear and world drop gear either. I was gunning for player made gear to be better than world drop gear. The reason being that player made gear would have skill attribute enhancements and requirements attached to them. I didn't plan on gear to have attached stats as far as world drops go, but to have better aesthetic looks to them. In other words, be cooler looking, which would be the slightly better part between player made and world drop gear. The proper profession equipped player can then attach attributes to these items for a price. Don't get me wrong...player made items would still be able to be neat in appearance, but the world drop gear will be better looking, or noticeably detectable as world drop gear compared to player made gear. For those that are vain =P.
I was even thinking of making it so Blacksmiths can craft aesthetic pieces to add to existing armor to upgrade appearance (only). This way their could be even more variation, as well as separation in appearance between players.
But back to grouping. I feel that with the skill system in place instead of a level/class system that it would be easier to get groups together. I could be wrong though...I suppose the only real way to know if it would work would be actual hands on experience. But in theory, at least to me, you don't have any particular classes you need to wait on. All healing would be through potions, making the alchemy profession profitable, amongst other potions, etc. I suppose though that you could still have delay because as players get to knowing what skills work for certain situations, they may delay groups looking for certain skill set players. But this is also why I'd want to add a wide variety of skills. so it's not too restrictive and you don't have a thousand of the same skill set equipped players.
Any further suggestions on this part? Opinions?
Sounds good to me, every part.
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
My opinions;
I agree on principle on a large open world, but have encountered games in which large expanses became monotonous because there was nothing to do in them except grinding/questing 3-4 types of mobs. As large a world as a developer can manage makes me happy as long as its content filled.
I agree with you on interactive AI, it makes for not only a better setting but learning interactions amongst mobs could also have benefits for questing, crafting, etc.
Ill have to take Ihmoteps side on the skill issue.
I dont agree with you on the npc thing because even if you go into some detail describing branching storylines and interesting quest methods, you dont provide for an alternative way to seek quests which to me may equal less content. Also the npc in a cave becomes something of a joke after everyone rescues him, and having to look for quests in the wilderness eventually becomes tiresome as your basically "questing" for quests. Also i like to advance my skills through quests.
Treasure chests are not a bad idea in principle, although again i wouldnt like them as a primary method to obtain quests. The problem is in the long run they either become exploitable or too random which benefit playing styles im not too fond of.
Your crafting system i would agree with as long as it didnt become a thing in which youd need to spend a lot of time/gold crafting somewhat useless stuff just to level it up. It does need some fleshing out.
Im always on board with open world PvP and agree choice of skills should be relevant to it. However im not for having progression out of the picture, if you can pvp just as well with a char youve had for a few days as you can with one youve invested months in there really is no point to advancement at all. Power level should be proportional to the efforts youve made in game regardless of the progression system.
As for grouping it is unfortunately an issue which isnt easy to discuss in general terms. Yes, i like games that promote it but dont want to feel forced into it.
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll look into this stuff closer.
I'm actually keeping notes on all of this for future reference. I'm going to school for game art & design. This is sort of a study class for me. The more opinions and other informative responses on negative and positive aspects of this info the better.