Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Major point solo advocates seem incapable of understanding in the Solo Vs Group debate

2456789

Comments

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

    Originally posted by Ihmotepp 
    No, you are misstating my position.
    My preference is NOT for grouping, which I stated in the Origijnal Post.
    Try again.
    How are you respecting my play style?
    Do you really not get that my preference is NOT for grouping, or are you purposefully trying to misrepresent my position to make your point?

    Erm:

    "I would like a game that has good group content"

    "My preference is NOT for grouping"

    If this is something to do with schizophrenia, could you please ask Ihmotepp to return to the frontal cortex?

     

     

     

    No, because you keep saying, look in this solo friendly game, you can group.

    there, that's good group content!

    Uh, no it isn't.

     

    image

  • ShanniaShannia Member Posts: 2,096
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

    Originally posted by Ihmotepp 
    No, you are misstating my position.
    My preference is NOT for grouping, which I stated in the Origijnal Post.
    Try again.
    How are you respecting my play style?
    Do you really not get that my preference is NOT for grouping, or are you purposefully trying to misrepresent my position to make your point?

    Erm:

    "I would like a game that has good group content"

    "My preference is NOT for grouping"

    If this is something to do with schizophrenia, could you please ask Ihmotepp to return to the frontal cortex?

     

     

     

    No, because you keep saying, look in this solo friendly game, you can group.

    there, that's good group content!

    Uh, no it isn't.

     



     

    You know what makes good group content?  Not the content at all, but YOUR GROUP!  If you are finding your group content lacking, find a new group or new guild.  I've spent more money on MMOGs the past 15 years that I'd ever admit and the one thing that I noticed, it isn't the content that makes for a great game, it's the game mechanics and the group itself.

     

    Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

    "Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

  • Toquio3Toquio3 Member Posts: 1,074

    DAoC and EQ are still around. Why dont you play those games you mentioned in the beginning as great group games and save yourself the bother of going through these threads? I honestly dont get it. If, on the other hand, there really arent games that are up to your really high standards, I think its time someone went to game design school and made their own mmo, in my opinion.

     

    It would beat looking down on people that like to solo and tell them they are not playing the game right.

    image
    If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.

  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr Member CommonPosts: 2,142
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp

    No, because you keep saying, look in this solo friendly game, you can group.
    there, that's good group content!
    Uh, no it isn't.

    No, I keep saying: "Look in this solo friendly game, there's good group content too!"

    And you keep saying "A game can't have solo-friendly content as well as good group content."

    And you're completely wrong.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • Toquio3Toquio3 Member Posts: 1,074
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

    Originally posted by Ihmotepp

    No, because you keep saying, look in this solo friendly game, you can group.
    there, that's good group content!
    Uh, no it isn't.

    No, I keep saying: "Look in this solo friendly game, there's good group content too!"

    And you keep saying "A game can't have solo-friendly content as well as good group content."

    And you're completely wrong.

     

    The problem I think, is that hes saying that good group content means better XP and more and better loot for groups then for solo players. If you're on about group this and group that, it seems kinda weird to be so focused on xp and loot. I mean, what is more important Ihmo, Phat loot or have fun with your friends?

    image
    If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Member Posts: 1,214
    Originally posted by Vyava

    Originally posted by Ihmotepp 
    If the vast majority of people are still soloing, I would say the compensation for grouping is not adequate in that game.
    In EQ and DAoC I would say the vast majority grouped, because the compensation was adequate in those designs.



     

    I think what happened since then was a fundamental change in the playerbase.

    During the UO, EQ and DAoC eras it was about playing the game. Now it is about winning the game.

    Not to say there wasn't those people in the older games, but that they were the minority and now they are the majority for many games. People who want to win do not want to be impeded by others and have no interest in grouping. Those who want to play the game do not want their game time ruined by others who just want to win ASAP (blow through content etc).

    MMOs have changed to follow the new playerbase. Heck, you can even see how WoW was changed to follow the new MMO playerbase more and more since release. I believe this is the fundamental reason most players from older games don't enjoy the newer releases nearly as much and just get burnt out.

     

    Mainly WoW IS the reason for the change in playerbase. They brought in easy EASY gameplay and started erasing the meaning of a true MMORPG with their instanced, heavy ended single-player design. Now all of the new age players expect every game to be catered to just that design and pretend to think that their isn't an issue with their truly not being any good design to any group based content actually IN any of those games.

    I think what Immotepp is trying to say is that back in older games, post-WoW, the content of said games was much more challenging. The mobs were much tougher where fighting a yellow con mob was even risky doing it solo. Orange con mobs were a 40/60 of victory or death (IMO). Red cons were impossible to solo. Due to this, grouping in some areas was necessary to accomplish some quests, IF you decided to do it a few levels earlier than you should because the experience for doing so was slightly better and faster than soloing such mobs. Not to mention MUCH safer. It is OK to have solo play content, but make the group content meaningful and worth the effort to group to promote the possibility of grouping if desried.

    In games from WoW and beyond, this has nearly disappeared. Almost any MMO I have played since, and that is a lot of them, I can solo any color mob with little effort, sometimes even red con mobs. The only difficulty to them is mastering the mob spawning patterns...which still isn't very difficult after having come up with games like EQ/UO. This makes grouping in those games nearly pointless, especially since the rewards and XP don't scale anyways....hence, killing grouping.

    I'd like to add that grouping promotes friendships throughout your game time, alliances with people/guilds that you have found THROUGH grouping to be efficient and know their classes well, etc, it promotes community. Most games now, there is barely a community. Most games servers consist of 3 or 4 big guilds and a collection of "soon to topple" smaller guilds because that is all that survives. Players now don't take the time to get to know the people in their chosen guilds or even care to help make them better because they like the people that are in the guild...mainly because they are impatient and looking for a guild that can just get them through the content as fast as possible, even if it means being in a huge guild full of douchbags, most of which they will never get to know.

    I don't have an issue with there being solo content..I even like to be able to relax out in the game world adventuring and discovering stuff by myself sometimes....quite a bit actually lol, but there IS a need to make meaningful group content as well. Afterall, they aren't called Massive Multi-player games only because a lot of people play them. They are meant for people to interact. Again, grouping promotes a good community through interaction, not just temporary friendships/alliances out of convenience of the moment to only suit YOUR needs.

  • Toquio3Toquio3 Member Posts: 1,074
    Originally posted by Goatgod76



    I don't have an issue with there being solo content..I even like to be able to relax out in the game world adventuring and discovering stuff by myself sometimes....quite a bit actually lol, but there IS a need to make meaningful group content as well. Afterall, they aren't called Massive Multi-player games only because a lot of people play them. They are meant for people to interact. Again, grouping promotes a good community through interaction, not just temporary friendships/alliances out of convenience of the moment to only suit YOUR needs.

     

    Grouping and interaction arent concepts that are exclusive to each other. Some people will never understand this. And MMOs are infact called MMOs because alot of people play them, not because you can team up with strangers. You can do that in Diablo and that is not a MMO. MMOs are called what they are because there are always tons of people online in the same, persistent world. That is what every MMO has that other games dont, and that is their defining feature.

    image
    If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495
    Originally posted by Toquio3


    DAoC and EQ are still around. Why dont you play those games you mentioned in the beginning as great group games and save yourself the bother of going through these threads? I honestly dont get it. If, on the other hand, there really arent games that are up to your really high standards, I think its time someone went to game design school and made their own mmo, in my opinion.
     
    It would beat looking down on people that like to solo and tell them they are not playing the game right.

     

    I don't think it's a legitimate request to ask anyone ot play the same MMORPG forever, and never have a new one to play.

    I also am not beating anyone down.

    I'm simply advocating for a game I would like to play, one with grouping dynamics similar two very popular games, EQ nad DAoC.

    I don't see how that's beating down solo players. If solo players wanted to play this game nad solo all the way to the level cap, that would not bother me in the least. Why would it?'

    It's only when the solo advocates say, you can't play that kind of game! You only want it becuase you are trying to exclude me!

    No, sorry, I'm not trying to exclude you, but there's no way for me to have the game I like to play, a game similar to EQ and DaoC, and at the same time make the game just like WoW.

    I understand you like the WoW design, solo friendly to the level cap, better than the EQ nad DAoC design, more good group content.

    How do you expect me to get the EQ or DAoC style game I like, AND at the same time make it just like WoW for you? I can't do that.

    image

  • ShanniaShannia Member Posts: 2,096

    Im, have you played FFXI?  If not, I strongly suggest that you try it.  Sure, anyone can get to max level solo, but it rewards groups 10x over compared to solo players.  I believe that is the game you are looking for.  Mind you, you might want to wait until FFIV next year, because FFXI is getting dated now, but it still rewards the groupers far more than soloers with great group content.

     

    Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

    "Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495
    Originally posted by Toquio3

    Originally posted by Goatgod76



    I don't have an issue with there being solo content..I even like to be able to relax out in the game world adventuring and discovering stuff by myself sometimes....quite a bit actually lol, but there IS a need to make meaningful group content as well. Afterall, they aren't called Massive Multi-player games only because a lot of people play them. They are meant for people to interact. Again, grouping promotes a good community through interaction, not just temporary friendships/alliances out of convenience of the moment to only suit YOUR needs.

     

    Grouping and interaction arent concepts that are exclusive to each other. Some people will never understand this. And MMOs are infact called MMOs because alot of people play them, not because you can team up with strangers. You can do that in Diablo and that is not a MMO. MMOs are called what they are because there are always tons of people online in the same, persistent world. That is what every MMO has that other games dont, and that is their defining feature.

     

    I agree 100%.

    Good grouping content has nothing to do with the ability interact with other players.

    If I just wanted to interact with other players, I could chat with my guild or others, or trade with them, etc.

    But I'm not asking for interaction with other players just for the sake of interaction, I'm asking for good group content.

    Good group content doesn't even require the party members to necessarily talk with one another.

    In fact, I could be in a group that is practically silent, while chatting with guild members.

    The social interaction and the good group content can be totally separate, although one does usually lead to the other.

    image

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Member Posts: 1,214
    Originally posted by Toquio3

    Originally posted by Goatgod76



    I don't have an issue with there being solo content..I even like to be able to relax out in the game world adventuring and discovering stuff by myself sometimes....quite a bit actually lol, but there IS a need to make meaningful group content as well. Afterall, they aren't called Massive Multi-player games only because a lot of people play them. They are meant for people to interact. Again, grouping promotes a good community through interaction, not just temporary friendships/alliances out of convenience of the moment to only suit YOUR needs.

     

    Grouping and interaction arent concepts that are exclusive to each other. Some people will never understand this. And MMOs are infact called MMOs because alot of people play them, not because you can team up with strangers. You can do that in Diablo and that is not a MMO. MMOs are called what they are because there are always tons of people online in the same, persistent world. That is what every MMO has that other games dont, and that is their defining feature.

     

    Sigh...someone else who browsed through to find an area to attack without full comprehension. I said they weren't only called MMO's BECAUSE of the fact that lots of people play them. Yes, it is part of why they are, but not the only reason through the understanding that lots of people played them for the reason of interaction PRIOR to games like WoW coming along and walking all over the concept.

  • Toquio3Toquio3 Member Posts: 1,074
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp

    Originally posted by Toquio3


    DAoC and EQ are still around. Why dont you play those games you mentioned in the beginning as great group games and save yourself the bother of going through these threads? I honestly dont get it. If, on the other hand, there really arent games that are up to your really high standards, I think its time someone went to game design school and made their own mmo, in my opinion.
     
    It would beat looking down on people that like to solo and tell them they are not playing the game right.

     

    I'm simply advocating for a game I would like to play, one with grouping dynamics similar two very popular games, EQ nad DAoC.

    I don't see how that's beating down solo players. If solo players wanted to play this game nad solo all the way to the level cap, that would not bother me in the least. Why would it?'

    It's only when the solo advocates say, you can't play that kind of game! You only want it becuase you are trying to exclude me!

    No, sorry, I'm not trying to exclude you, but there's no way for me to have the game I like to play, a game similar to EQ and DaoC, and at the same time make the game just like WoW.

    I understand you like the WoW design, solo friendly to the level cap, better than the EQ nad DAoC design, more good group content.

    How do you expect me to get the EQ or DAoC style game I like, AND at the same time make it just like WoW for you? I can't do that.

    But dont you see? Thats how you are being perceived, as a solo hater. I kinda understand what you're saying, but I just dont think you're saying it very well, and are being flamed for it.

    image
    If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495
    Originally posted by Shannia


    Im, have you played FFXI?  If not, I strongly suggest that you try it.  Sure, anyone can get to max level solo, but it rewards groups 10x over compared to solo players.  I believe that is the game you are looking for.  Mind you, you might want to wait until FFIV next year, because FFXI is getting dated now, but it still rewards the groupers far more than soloers with great group content.
     

     

    I believe FFXI is dated. I wonder what sort of design FFIV will have? My bet is they skew towards the WoW sort of dynamic.

    image

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Member Posts: 1,214
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp

    Originally posted by Toquio3

    Originally posted by Goatgod76



    I don't have an issue with there being solo content..I even like to be able to relax out in the game world adventuring and discovering stuff by myself sometimes....quite a bit actually lol, but there IS a need to make meaningful group content as well. Afterall, they aren't called Massive Multi-player games only because a lot of people play them. They are meant for people to interact. Again, grouping promotes a good community through interaction, not just temporary friendships/alliances out of convenience of the moment to only suit YOUR needs.

     

    Grouping and interaction arent concepts that are exclusive to each other. Some people will never understand this. And MMOs are infact called MMOs because alot of people play them, not because you can team up with strangers. You can do that in Diablo and that is not a MMO. MMOs are called what they are because there are always tons of people online in the same, persistent world. That is what every MMO has that other games dont, and that is their defining feature.

     

    I agree 100%.

    Good grouping content has nothing to do with the ability interact with other players.

    If I just wanted to interact with other players, I could chat with my guild or others, or trade with them, etc.

    But I'm not asking for interaction with other players just for the sake of interaction, I'm asking for good group content.

    Good group content doesn't even require the party members to necessarily talk with one another.

    In fact, I could be in a group that is practically silent, while chatting with guild members.

    The social interaction and the good group content can be totally separate, although one does usually lead to the other.

     

    Dude, read the full post. I said that making group content meaningful and xp and loot to scale when grouping is what is needed (basically). I was simply adding out of personal opinion about the other benefits of grouping a.k.a interaction, etc. Not advocating it's the only reason for grouping.

  • AcidonAcidon Member UncommonPosts: 796
    Originally posted by spades07


    what the solo advocates don't understand is that the original Dungeons N Dragons tabletop game wasn't played solo. That's not to say mmos should have no solo because that's bull, but I get annoyed when people seem to be cynical why people want emphasis on grouping in mmos. It is simply that same desire as playing DnD around a table with a group of friends.

     

    You're seriously going to compare modern day MMOs to table top games?  Okay, fine..

    I *did* in fact solo these games quite often.  Of course, soloing them requires a DM/GM (my friend).  He would spend a lot of time on scenarios for me and I would work through them.  We had a whole lot of fun... Sort of like the fun I have playing MMO games.  The game being the DM/GM of course.  Both are solo.

    I also enjoyed playing table top games with multiple people.  That was a lot of fun and a totally different experience.  But some of my best DnD memories when I was young involved just my friend and I while I effectively "soloed" the content. 

    I still think it's a bit ridiculous to compare the two, but since you brought it up...

     

    Acidon

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495
    Originally posted by Toquio3

    Originally posted by Ihmotepp

    Originally posted by Toquio3


    DAoC and EQ are still around. Why dont you play those games you mentioned in the beginning as great group games and save yourself the bother of going through these threads? I honestly dont get it. If, on the other hand, there really arent games that are up to your really high standards, I think its time someone went to game design school and made their own mmo, in my opinion.
     
    It would beat looking down on people that like to solo and tell them they are not playing the game right.

     

    I'm simply advocating for a game I would like to play, one with grouping dynamics similar two very popular games, EQ nad DAoC.

    I don't see how that's beating down solo players. If solo players wanted to play this game nad solo all the way to the level cap, that would not bother me in the least. Why would it?'

    It's only when the solo advocates say, you can't play that kind of game! You only want it becuase you are trying to exclude me!

    No, sorry, I'm not trying to exclude you, but there's no way for me to have the game I like to play, a game similar to EQ and DaoC, and at the same time make the game just like WoW.

    I understand you like the WoW design, solo friendly to the level cap, better than the EQ nad DAoC design, more good group content.

    How do you expect me to get the EQ or DAoC style game I like, AND at the same time make it just like WoW for you? I can't do that.

    But dont you see? Thats how you are coming being perceived, as a solo hater. I kinda understand what you're saying, but I just dont think you're saying it very well, and are being flamed for it.

     

    No I don't see.

    I've never said I hate solo players, don't want them in my game, or anything like that.

    They hate me because if the game isn't turned into a solo friendly game like they like, they feel excluded, and rejected.

    They can't understand that I can't make a EQ game that is also exactly like WOW.

    No way to do that, and make me happy and them happy at the same time.

    The solo argument is that if I CAN group in WoW pre-raid, that must be the SAME thing as grouping in EQ right?

    No, it's very, very, very, different, and not even close to the same thing.

    I think many that don't get this concept have never played EQ or DAoC for any significant amount of time.

    So they think well, I'm giving you the exact same thing in the WoW game as EQ and you're STILL not happy?

    They just don't get that they are not giving me anything close to the grouping content in EQ nad DAoC at all, and probably never will understand that.

    I was going to say the only way would be to go play those games, but even those games are not the same now because of all the expansions.

    image

  • Toquio3Toquio3 Member Posts: 1,074

    Ive been reading Ihmo's replies now, and I honestly cant say what it is he considers 'good group content'. At some point i thought it was just more loot and XP, not sure though. Is it game mechanics, if so, any sugestions? After all, you cant say you want something, but not know exactly what it is. Is it mobs impossible to solo like EQ? is it all of the above?

    And btw, if you dont even consider interacting or speaking to your group members while grouping, thats really baffling. So to you, they might as well be npcs that tag along with you so you can go through whatever content you want? If that is the case, you should try guild wars. they have a good npc henchman system.

    image
    If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.

  • ShanniaShannia Member Posts: 2,096
    Originally posted by Toquio3


    Ive been reading Ihmo's replies now, and I honestly cant say what it is he considers 'good group content'. At some point i thought it was just more loot and XP, not sure though. Is it game mechanics, if so, any sugestions? After all, you cant say you want something, but not know exactly what it is. Is it mobs impossible to solo like EQ? is it all of the above?
    And btw, if you dont even consider interacting or speaking to your group members while grouping, thats really baffling. So to you, they might as well be npcs that tag along with you so you can go through whatever content you want? If that is the case, you should try guild wars. they have a good npc henchman system.



     

    From what I believe the 1st rule of good group content for him is that group content has to be so much better than solo content that it puts the solo player at an extreme disadvantage.  As far as anything else, you are right, he has not identified anything else that makes "good group content."

     

    Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

    "Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

  • greed0104greed0104 Member Posts: 2,134
    Originally posted by Toquio3


    Ive been reading Ihmo's replies now, and I honestly cant say what it is he considers 'good group content'. At some point i thought it was just more loot and XP, not sure though. Is it game mechanics, if so, any sugestions? After all, you cant say you want something, but not know exactly what it is. Is it mobs impossible to solo like EQ? is it all of the above?
    And btw, if you dont even consider interacting or speaking to your group members while grouping, thats really baffling. So to you, they might as well be npcs that tag along with you so you can go through whatever content you want? If that is the case, you should try guild wars. they have a good npc henchman system.

     

    I have asked him several times in the past what he wants from a grouping game, no answer. Besides the usual "I just want good grouping".

    The non social part was rather confusing to, he has complained in the past that he wants cordinated group content, not really sure how you do that without being social.

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,332

    Imhotepp, your "I'm not saying that!" posts always adamantly state that you are not saying that you want to force people to group with you, but each thread you start on the topic clearly reinforces that it is exactly what you are saying. You have even gone as far as to say that you need the forced grouping in a game otherwise you would solo because only an idiot would group then.

     

    I mean, here's some of your posts over just the past few months....

     



    "If you can solo the content or group and both are equally effective, then it's a solo game."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3159794#3159794

    "The "choice" destroys the challenge of the group game, for me, and therefore makes it no longer fun.

    Your solo play destroys my fun game, because it ruins the challenge of the game for me."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3158836#3158836

    "I'm ok with forcing something on everyone.

    I HAVE to solo, can't avoid it, you HAVE to group, can't avoid it.

    This means the group content is not destroyed, so I like it."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2959799

    "If I can solo for the same thing, then grouping is not a challenge, which makes it pointless and not very fun."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3157915#3157915

    "This suggestion is acceptable to me, adding content that can only be soloed, and content that can only be grouped, as long as doing both of those is required and cannot be avoided. .

    We make FORCED solo content, and FORCED group content.

    To make progress, you MUST solo dungeon A, and go through dungeon B with a group.

    I'm ok with that, because it does nto destroy the group content."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2959674



    "Sorry, but for me, solo play in an MMORPG is like god mode.

    The only reason I play MMORPGs is to group.

    If I'm not grouped, I find the game to be mind numbingly boring, and way, way, way, way, to easy.

    The hardest thing about playing an MMORPG solo, for me maybe not you, is putting up with the boredom.

    If I wanted to be forced to group (and I do) then I'd play games like....

    Well you can't name one released this year can you? You mean I have to play EQ forever? No thanks."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2959834

    Regarding 'Forced Grouping, XP grinding, downtime..':

    "These are the only elements that make an MMO fun and immersive, IMO.

    Most RPGs, especially MMORPGs, can be played by a monkey. Press button, level, or level skills, press button.

    Without the forced grouping, xp grinding, and downtime, you might as well play solitaire, both require just as much effort and attention."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2959277

    "If a single person can do it, who cares if a group makes it easier? That sounds like a game where it's pointless to group, IMO.

    I don't think grouping should be purely "social"."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2959255



    In reference to a statmeent that 'downtime is necessary for interaction' is a broken mechanic:

    "I have a different take on the situation than you do.

    I don't feel I"m being "FORCED" to interact, or that the game is broken.

    I feel I"m being given an opportunity to interact, withotu feeling pressured that Im' missing out on xp or loot.

    You MUST rest, so you CAN chat if you like, without feeling OMG I could be making XP or Lewtz!"

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2946958



    In repsonse to 'Oh so it's NOT about the social interaction and actually having fun playing with others,

    it's about efficiency and optimizing your play time?' :

    "Effieciently optimizing game play IS fun.

    That's when you get a great group that works well as a team. The Healer heals the tank when he's supposed to, the DPS doesn't pull, the Tank doesn't get an add, etc.

    Yes, that's very fun.

    If there's absolutley no reason to do that, then no, it's not fun. Whjy would it be?"

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2947018

     

    "Why would "team work and community" make some one want to group for something they can get solo?

    You can bend down and pick up a quarter.

    Or you can run around the block and stand on your head and jump up and down three times, and THEN pick up the quarter, and no one is stopping you if you want to do that because of team work and community!"

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2947710#2947710



    "Including solo friendly as part of the game, destroys the group game. You're saying devs should only make solo games and not make good group games.

    Why would you not want me to have a good group game ot play?"

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2946253#2946253

     



    Or anything from these threads you created:

    Question for solo advocates. Is this acceptable to you in an MMORPG?

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/253535/page/1

    Most flawed reasoning Solo advocates use to describe grouping.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/244224/page/1

    Would this be acceptable to the solo crowd?

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/244016/page/1



    Or anything in these threads:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/242439/page/1

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/243355/page/1



    That's just some of the stuff I found going through my own post history. I'm askeered of even peeking at yours. Your focus, repeatedly, is on forcing people to group with you, specifically to maximize your personal xp gain.We're not inferring that... you have consistently stated it.

     

     



     

     

     

     

    -- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG 
    RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? 
    FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?  
  • ShanniaShannia Member Posts: 2,096
    Originally posted by greed0104

    Originally posted by Toquio3


    Ive been reading Ihmo's replies now, and I honestly cant say what it is he considers 'good group content'. At some point i thought it was just more loot and XP, not sure though. Is it game mechanics, if so, any sugestions? After all, you cant say you want something, but not know exactly what it is. Is it mobs impossible to solo like EQ? is it all of the above?
    And btw, if you dont even consider interacting or speaking to your group members while grouping, thats really baffling. So to you, they might as well be npcs that tag along with you so you can go through whatever content you want? If that is the case, you should try guild wars. they have a good npc henchman system.

     

    I have asked him several times in the past what he wants from a grouping game, no answer. Besides the usual "I just want good grouping".

    The non social part was rather confusing to, he has complained in the past that he wants cordinated group content, not really sure how you do that without being social.



     

    This gets back to mechanics and not good group content.  He has complained extensively about waiting for other to get to group quest point, restroom breaks, getting people on same stage of quests, etc.  So one thing I believe is a more refined LFG channels in games to narrow it down more specifially of what stage in quest lines people are on so a group can make an informed decision on who they add based on where the player is at on the quest chains, must less class of the player.  Again, mechanics, not content issue.

     

    Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

    "Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

  • protorocprotoroc Member Posts: 1,042

    Why even bother Imohotep? It's been well proven that around here the solo advocates are extremely rabid and hostile  to anything that might provide more then what solo offers. Groupers are not allowed to have their own fun in challenging group content without offering that exact same fun to soloers. They can't stand the fact that there might be some content that is inaccessible to them and might have to rely on other people to help them complete their goals.

    It's funny they call groupers elitist, yet soloers are the ones that are too "awesome" (Since every one of the most vocal advocates on this site always proclaim to be absolute gods at the games they play, more like scrubs to timid to be called out for bad play) to play with others...

  • madeuxmadeux Member Posts: 1,786
    Originally posted by LynxJSA


    Imhotepp, your "I'm not saying that!" posts always adamantly state that you are not saying that you want to force people to group with you, but each thread you start on the topic clearly reinforces that it is exactly what you are saying. You have even gone as far as to say that you need the forced grouping in a game otherwise you would solo because only an idiot would group then.
     
    I mean, here's some of your posts over just the past few months....
     


    "If you can solo the content or group and both are equally effective, then it's a solo game."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3159794#3159794
    "The "choice" destroys the challenge of the group game, for me, and therefore makes it no longer fun.

    Your solo play destroys my fun game, because it ruins the challenge of the game for me."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3158836#3158836
    "I'm ok with forcing something on everyone.

    I HAVE to solo, can't avoid it, you HAVE to group, can't avoid it.

    This means the group content is not destroyed, so I like it."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2959799
    "If I can solo for the same thing, then grouping is not a challenge, which makes it pointless and not very fun."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3157915#3157915
    "This suggestion is acceptable to me, adding content that can only be soloed, and content that can only be grouped, as long as doing both of those is required and cannot be avoided. .

    We make FORCED solo content, and FORCED group content.

    To make progress, you MUST solo dungeon A, and go through dungeon B with a group.

    I'm ok with that, because it does nto destroy the group content."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2959674


    "Sorry, but for me, solo play in an MMORPG is like god mode.
    The only reason I play MMORPGs is to group.
    If I'm not grouped, I find the game to be mind numbingly boring, and way, way, way, way, to easy.
    The hardest thing about playing an MMORPG solo, for me maybe not you, is putting up with the boredom.
    If I wanted to be forced to group (and I do) then I'd play games like....
    Well you can't name one released this year can you? You mean I have to play EQ forever? No thanks."
    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2959834
    Regarding 'Forced Grouping, XP grinding, downtime..':

    "These are the only elements that make an MMO fun and immersive, IMO.
    Most RPGs, especially MMORPGs, can be played by a monkey. Press button, level, or level skills, press button.
    Without the forced grouping, xp grinding, and downtime, you might as well play solitaire, both require just as much effort and attention."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2959277
    "If a single person can do it, who cares if a group makes it easier? That sounds like a game where it's pointless to group, IMO.
    I don't think grouping should be purely "social"."

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2959255


    In reference to a statmeent that 'downtime is necessary for interaction' is a broken mechanic:

    "I have a different take on the situation than you do.
    I don't feel I"m being "FORCED" to interact, or that the game is broken.
    I feel I"m being given an opportunity to interact, withotu feeling pressured that Im' missing out on xp or loot.
    You MUST rest, so you CAN chat if you like, without feeling OMG I could be making XP or Lewtz!"

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2946958


    In repsonse to 'Oh so it's NOT about the social interaction and actually having fun playing with others,

    it's about efficiency and optimizing your play time?' :
    "Effieciently optimizing game play IS fun.
    That's when you get a great group that works well as a team. The Healer heals the tank when he's supposed to, the DPS doesn't pull, the Tank doesn't get an add, etc.
    Yes, that's very fun.
    If there's absolutley no reason to do that, then no, it's not fun. Whjy would it be?"

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2947018
     
    "Why would "team work and community" make some one want to group for something they can get solo?
    You can bend down and pick up a quarter.
    Or you can run around the block and stand on your head and jump up and down three times, and THEN pick up the quarter, and no one is stopping you if you want to do that because of team work and community!"

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2947710#2947710


    "Including solo friendly as part of the game, destroys the group game. You're saying devs should only make solo games and not make good group games.
    Why would you not want me to have a good group game ot play?"

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2946253#2946253
     


    Or anything from these threads you created:
    Question for solo advocates. Is this acceptable to you in an MMORPG?

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/253535/page/1
    Most flawed reasoning Solo advocates use to describe grouping.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/244224/page/1
    Would this be acceptable to the solo crowd?

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/244016/page/1


    Or anything in these threads:
    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/242439/page/1

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/243355/page/1


    That's just some of the stuff I found going through my own post history. I'm askeered of even peeking at yours. Your focus, repeatedly, is on forcing people to group with you, specifically to maximize your personal xp gain.We're not inferring that... you have consistently stated it.
     
     


     
     
     
     

     

    Would it be wrong for me to profess my love for you? lol  I was soooooo tempted to do this exact thing, but it's early and I'm lazy.

    Thank you!

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,332
    Originally posted by Shannia
    This gets back to mechanics and not good group content.  He has complained extensively about waiting for other to get to group quest point, restroom breaks, getting people on same stage of quests, etc.  So one thing I believe is a more refined LFG channels in games to narrow it down more specifially of what stage in quest lines people are on so a group can make an informed decision on who they add based on where the player is at on the quest chains, must less class of the player.  Again, mechanics, not content issue.

     

    He hasn't complained about those things. He uses them as the supporting argument for why groups should get more XP and higher rewards.

    -- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG 
    RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? 
    FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?  
  • Toquio3Toquio3 Member Posts: 1,074
    Originally posted by protoroc


    Why even bother Imohotep? It's been well proven that around here the solo adovocates are extremely rabid and hostile  to anything that might provide more then what solo offers. Groupers are not allowed to have their own fun in challenging group content without offering that exact same fun to soloers. They can't stand the fact that there might be some content that is inaccessible to them and might have to rely on other people to help them complete their goals.
    It's funny they call groupers elitist, yet they are the ones that are too awesome to play with others...

     

    You assume people who like to solo never group. Lets assume other stupid stuff. Lets assume that people who like to spend more time awake then asleep never sleep. Not the same thing of course, I just pulled that out of my ass. Just like you did.

    Never have "soloers" said that thay dont want challenging group content, I have seen however many "groupers" say that they want to force grouping on EVERYONE! and make soloers group or gtfo of their game.

    I just dont think there is a need to segregate soloers into this game and groupers into that game. But thats apparently what Ihmotep wants.

    image
    If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.

Sign In or Register to comment.