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It's time for me to complain some more.

NeanderthalNeanderthal Member RarePosts: 1,861

That's right, you heard me, I logged in for no other reason than to bitch and moan. So what's my gripe today? Hang on, I'll get to it.

But first let me ask you guys something. Have you ever eagerly awaited a sci/fi or fantasy movie or TV series and then when you finally see it you discover that it was cutsyfied to appeal to little kids and it ruined it for you? Ok, hold that feeling in your mind because it pertains to my gripe on this fine day.

Today I'm going to be picking on D&D online although this could surely apply to a large number of games.

So D&D went free to play and I thought to myself, "Might as well give it a try." So I did that yesterday. I didn't really expect much to be honest but there's always that little part of my mind that hopes for something good when I try a new game. That little part of my mind conjures up vague images of pulse-pounding adventures, desperate touch and go fights, exploring an unknown world, and other good stuff.

Alright, let me get to the main part of the post. I made a barbarian and loaded into the game. Some guy (npc) gave me a rusty ax and told me where to go. I had no real choice because there was only one place I could go. I suppose this conveniently eliminates any chance that I might be too stupid to find my way. So off I go, following the yellow brick road...er...whatever.

Oh, look, barrels and boxes along the side of the road. Whack 'em and money falls out. Um...what? Who the f--k would leave money lying around in a barrel on the side of a road? And why didn't those NPCs get pissed off at me when I whacked the barrel right in front of them and took the money which was presumably theirs?

Oh, crap, old roleplaying instincts and common sense are messing me up again. Sometimes I forget that I'm in candyland. Ok, I told myself, just whack the pinatas and take the candy...er...money..and shut up. So I did and continued on my way to see this npc I was told to find.

"I'm off to see the wizard, the wonderfull wizard of Oz", I sang to myself as I followed the road collecting candy...er..money.

Very quickly I found the wiz...er...the npc. "Blah, blah, blah follow me", she said. Okie dokey.

Now at this point I'm in a dungeon, right? Dungeons are supposed to be scary places filled with dangerous creatures, right? Hey, the npc said so and she wouldn't lie, right? But you know what? It wasn't scary and the creatures weren't dangerous. It was just whackity whackity whack and they all fall down.

A new song came to mind and I hummed it as I slaughtered the hapless, helpless creatures. "Ring around the rosie, pockets full of posies, ashes, ashes, you all fall down." I felt kind of sorry for the poor things but I guess I was expected to kill them so I did.

When we got done with this dungeon the gal (npc) who led me through it had a reward for me. Oh look, it's a firey ax!

Oooooo, shiney! It's all firey and stuff!

Really? A flaming ax? Right out of the gate? Oh, wait...I'm in candyland, sometimes I forget.

Ok, so then I was in a village. It was the typical sort of thing where quest giving npc's stand around with neon signs over their heads. They all wanted to tell me where to go for some reason. I guess I must look stupid. So they gently told me where to go and sent me off with a pat on the head.

Yay! Adventure!

So I did some more dungeons....whackity whackity whack...."Ashes, ashes, you all fall down."

Going through those dungeons there was never a moment of trepidation on my part. Never for one second did I think to myself, "Hmm, this could be dangerous." And even if I had died I'm pretty sure I wouldn't lose anything so what is there to be afraid of even if the creatures could hurt me. I suppose they make games that way so as not to hurt anyones' feelings. I mean, you wouldn't want some little kid to get his ass handed to him and NOT feel like the worlds greatest hero, right?

/sigh...oh, sorry...I mean, um...WEEE FUN! I'M A HERO, I'M A HERO! LOOK AT ME MOMMY, I'M A HERO!

And each time I finished a dungeon/quest a nice npc gave me some more candy. Oooooo, shiney!

Well, I could go on with this but I'm sure you all get the picture. This is just another example of where we are with mmorpgs today. We're not in dark, dangerous worlds full of real adventure. No, we're in Candyland.

 

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Comments

  • SecurionSecurion Member Posts: 206

    I say we take off and nuke Candyland from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

     Edit; Btw, nicely written and your not alone.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824

    That sounds bad, but I have heard D&D has some very well thought out dungeons at higher levels. Also the idea of limiting magic points makes casters think before blasting. But that introduction hardly makes you want to jump in. :)

  • DawnsingerDawnsinger Member Posts: 212

    The thing you have to understand in DDO is that Eberron is a high fantasy ( and EXTREMELY high magic ) setting, so you can expect 90% of the people to have uber magic weapons for no reason other than that.

    Now, make a Dark Sun setting, and see the glory shine down.

    http://www.havenandhearth.com
    The Best New Sandbox Game Out There.

  • beladanbeladan Member Posts: 15

    Ah, Dark Sun. Now, that WOULD be fun!

  • Plasuma!!!Plasuma!!! Member Posts: 1,872

    Surprise, surprise.

    Grinding with a side of grind. No risk in your grind, you say? That's normal. It's fast food.



    You shouldn't expect much from these games anymore, I guess.

  • neoterrarneoterrar Member Posts: 512

    A. Shouldn't this be in the DDO forums.

    B. You were playing the bloody tutorial island.

    Yeah, go figure, they make the tutorial easy so you can learn how to play the game. Go figure...

  • jmccarthy14jmccarthy14 Member Posts: 42

     Liked this.  Didn't mind DDO that much, but didn't like enough to play more than twice.  Even with relatively positive opinion of the game this a good story about quest games.

    Playing: DO Trial, EVE 1 Day Buy a PLEX promo.
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  • VallanorVallanor Member Posts: 103

    Neanderthal, you are officially my hero. 

    Mmorpgs these days think they've got to tell you exactly where to go at any given point in time.  There are "x marks the spot" style mini-maps, and npcs with flashing arrows doing the "I have a quest for thee!" dance.  Back in the old days when men were men and women were also, we didn't have this nonsense.  I remember actually reading quests when they were given so I could understand what was needed of me.  Not only that, I had to ask around to find tasks.  The magical floating exclamation mark hadn't been invented yet, I guess. 

    Of course, back in those days you didn't have fifteen thousand quests to do at any given level.  We didn't need our grind disguised.  Somewhere along the way, running back and forth killing 10 of this and 8 of that and returning 5 scalps and 3 sewing elvish sewing needles was determined to be less of a grind.  Of course, the inanity of the new mindless repetitive quests is far more grind-y to me, but what do I know.  Maybe I'm just too old for today's games.  Anyway, thanks for the heads-up about DDO.  I probably wouldn't have played but will absolutely avoid it now.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    LOL .. you want to die many times with nothing to show? 

     

     

  • decoy26517decoy26517 Member Posts: 313

    someone is taking video games a bit to seriously...

    "World of Warcraft is the perfect implementation of this genre." - Hilmar Petursson. CEO of CCP.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    There are like two MMORPGs ever that let you adjust the difficulty of the game for yourself.

    Guess which MMORPG lets you adjust the difficulty 6 minutes after starting the game?  That's right: D&D Online.  Way to be a noob, OP!

    Complaining about smashable barrels?  Totally valid.

    Complaining about the difficulty of the 6-minute starting area in one of the two MMORPGs that actually lets you have challenge very early in the game?  Pretty dumb.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • NeanderthalNeanderthal Member RarePosts: 1,861

    Gah...I typed out a long response to you guys and then some glitch caused me to lose it all.

    So here's the short version.

    I did more than just the intro.  I ran a number of dungeons after the intro part.  I ran them on normal, hard, and elite.  I couldn't tell much difference between normal and elite.

    I grouped with other people and was suprised to find that people were actually willing to group so that's a positive note.  However, nobody talked in the groups and there was very little cooperative effort.  Grouping in a dungeon was more like a contest to see who could run ahead and kill everything solo before the rest of the group caught up.  Or, everyone would run off in different directions slaughtering stuff.

    The dungeon crawls definately fell into the "mad dash" category.  You know what I mean.  Where everyone frantically charges through the dungeon as fast as possible and if you try to take a little time to look around you'll miss all the action.  This is directly attributable to the fact that it's all so easy and there is no real danger to the players.  In this type of game design the reward for completion is all that matters and the gameplay itself is distinctly lackluster.

    Now admittedly I've only played that one afternoon so I suppose it's possible that it improves later on but I hope you can understand if I am more than a little skeptical.  I may give it another go this weekend just for lack of anything else to play but I certainly don't expect it to get any better.

  • OzigoulOzigoul Member Posts: 50

    I share the exact same feeling as the orginal poster...

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292

    The OP is funny....

    They complain that they were treated like a kid.... when they chose the kiddy ride, rather than the adult ride.

    When you create your character, you have the option to bypass the tutorial. This also allows you to bypass the training area. This allows you to avoid the kiddy treatment.

    So, it looks like the OP got what they asked for.

  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102

    Well people who cant even post in the correct forum probably need a long noob tutorial when trying out a new MMO...

    There is a reason why DDO added the new tutorial island about 1 year ago.

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Member Posts: 556

    The problem you had was with the eagerly awaiting part... If youve played the pnp game you should stay away from all D&D translations to other media as they will always be nothing but disapointments (the old 80s cartoon might actually be the sole exception) im not in any way saying the game or its setting are bad (really, ive heard mostly good things anout this MMO) but it kind of is like that for most people who used to play the game. Im hoping this isnt true of all settings with a pnp version or a lot of ips will be ruined to me...

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • GoronianGoronian Member Posts: 724
    Originally posted by Caleveira


    The problem you had was with the eagerly awaiting part... If youve played the pnp game you should stay away from all D&D translations to other media as they will always be nothing but disapointments (the old 80s cartoon might actually be the sole exception) im not in any way saying the game or its setting are bad (really, ive heard mostly good things anout this MMO) but it kind of is like that for most people who used to play the game. Im hoping this isnt true of all settings with a pnp version or a lot of ips will be ruined to me...

    Baldur's Gate I-II, Icewind Dale I-II, NWN I (and II as well, kinda)... I don't see a lot of disappointments here.

    The game IS fantastic. Sadly, I don't really like F2P model, as I prefer to pay for access to the server, rather than for in-game privileges. 

    I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
    image

  • godzilr1godzilr1 Member UncommonPosts: 550

    to some extend it agree.  the intro is supposed to be fast to get you into the game.  the problem i have with D&D is the combat and spells.  I dont like how the mana pool does not regenerate, i understand it adds to the precious in your ability to think ahead of waht casts to you but a bow wielding wizard is lame.  As for the combat i just seemed uneven, what i mean is that one minute you could be jsut slaughtering mobs your level, then next your getting pounded into the group.  It wasn't a i get hit, he got hit situation...it was either I"M UNSTOPPABLE or rez,rez,rez,rez.

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Member Posts: 556
    Originally posted by Goronian

    Originally posted by Caleveira


    The problem you had was with the eagerly awaiting part... If youve played the pnp game you should stay away from all D&D translations to other media as they will always be nothing but disapointments (the old 80s cartoon might actually be the sole exception) im not in any way saying the game or its setting are bad (really, ive heard mostly good things anout this MMO) but it kind of is like that for most people who used to play the game. Im hoping this isnt true of all settings with a pnp version or a lot of ips will be ruined to me...

    Baldur's Gate I-II, Icewind Dale I-II, NWN I (and II as well, kinda)... I don't see a lot of disappointments here.

    The game IS fantastic. Sadly, I don't really like F2P model, as I prefer to pay for access to the server, rather than for in-game privileges. 



     

    Thats Forgotten Realms stuff (D&D guys did go overboard for a while with the idea of campaign settings) which while i did like better than kiddie material like Dragonlance, was still far from that much fun in the first place. My friends and i did play in that world for a while (i liked the detailed religions at first, so i actually tried priests) but the thing was ridiculous (as well as getting expensive). In the end we sorta became purists because of those products. We stuck to just the three core books and played in our own settings where wed got rid of magic everythings (Forgotten Realms got to be as camp as 60s Batman, with people ordering take out food via spells). If someone used the brand to spin a couple of video games (i remember some Dark Sun stuff too) good for them, they very likely had more depth than the pnp stuff or the novels.

    You cant really claim those as examples because the base material was never good in the first place. I think Forgotten Realms mustve been the last of those brands to die, i remember it being the biggest but it was far from the best.  White Wolfs game was out (we learned from D&D, only bought one set of corebooks and the clanbooks) so i never noticed when those books went out of print even tho they were sitting on the shelf right next to the one i was getting most of my stuff from. I remember years later i found some Forgotten Realms books at the 3 for $1 bin at the comic book store.

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • GoronianGoronian Member Posts: 724
    Originally posted by Caleveira

    Originally posted by Goronian

    Originally posted by Caleveira


    The problem you had was with the eagerly awaiting part... If youve played the pnp game you should stay away from all D&D translations to other media as they will always be nothing but disapointments (the old 80s cartoon might actually be the sole exception) im not in any way saying the game or its setting are bad (really, ive heard mostly good things anout this MMO) but it kind of is like that for most people who used to play the game. Im hoping this isnt true of all settings with a pnp version or a lot of ips will be ruined to me...

    Baldur's Gate I-II, Icewind Dale I-II, NWN I (and II as well, kinda)... I don't see a lot of disappointments here.

    The game IS fantastic. Sadly, I don't really like F2P model, as I prefer to pay for access to the server, rather than for in-game privileges. 



     

    Thats Forgotten Realms stuff (D&D guys did go overboard for a while with the idea of campaign settings) which while i did like better than kiddie material like Dragonlance, was still far from that much fun in the first place. My friends and i did play in that world for a while (i liked the detailed religions at first, so i actually tried priests) but the thing was ridiculous (as well as getting expensive). In the end we sorta became purists because of those products. We stuck to just the three core books and played in our own settings where wed got rid of magic everythings (Forgotten Realms got to be as camp as 60s Batman, with people ordering take out food via spells). If someone used the brand to spin a couple of video games (i remember some Dark Sun stuff too) good for them, they very likely had more depth than the pnp stuff or the novels.

    You cant really claim those as examples because the base material was never good in the first place. I think Forgotten Realms mustve been the last of those brands to die, i remember it being the biggest but it was far from the best.  White Wolfs game was out (we learned from D&D, only bought one set of corebooks and the clanbooks) so i never noticed when those books went out of print even tho they were sitting on the shelf right next to the one i was getting most of my stuff from. I remember years later i found some Forgotten Realms books at the 3 for $1 bin at the comic book store.

    It's not about your tastes. Complain all you like, but these games are considered CRPG classics. Some even say they are the best second-wave CRPGs (with the first being Wizardry, Ultima. Bard's Tale and Might and Magic) around. So yeah, sorry for being with the crowd for once and liking the single most popular DnD setting.

    P.S. What's campy about mundane utility of magic? 

    EDIT: Seriously, complain all you like about the setting, but remember NWN 1-2? Those gave you awesome level editors, and basically said "here, be your own bloody GM".

    I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
    image

  • DawnsingerDawnsinger Member Posts: 212
    Originally posted by Goronian


    P.S. What's campy about mundane utility of magic? 

    It ends up not being magical?

    http://www.havenandhearth.com
    The Best New Sandbox Game Out There.

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Member Posts: 556
    Originally posted by Goronian

    Originally posted by Caleveira

    Originally posted by Goronian

    Originally posted by Caleveira


    The problem you had was with the eagerly awaiting part... If youve played the pnp game you should stay away from all D&D translations to other media as they will always be nothing but disapointments (the old 80s cartoon might actually be the sole exception) im not in any way saying the game or its setting are bad (really, ive heard mostly good things anout this MMO) but it kind of is like that for most people who used to play the game. Im hoping this isnt true of all settings with a pnp version or a lot of ips will be ruined to me...

    Baldur's Gate I-II, Icewind Dale I-II, NWN I (and II as well, kinda)... I don't see a lot of disappointments here.

    The game IS fantastic. Sadly, I don't really like F2P model, as I prefer to pay for access to the server, rather than for in-game privileges. 



     

    Thats Forgotten Realms stuff (D&D guys did go overboard for a while with the idea of campaign settings) which while i did like better than kiddie material like Dragonlance, was still far from that much fun in the first place. My friends and i did play in that world for a while (i liked the detailed religions at first, so i actually tried priests) but the thing was ridiculous (as well as getting expensive). In the end we sorta became purists because of those products. We stuck to just the three core books and played in our own settings where wed got rid of magic everythings (Forgotten Realms got to be as camp as 60s Batman, with people ordering take out food via spells). If someone used the brand to spin a couple of video games (i remember some Dark Sun stuff too) good for them, they very likely had more depth than the pnp stuff or the novels.

    You cant really claim those as examples because the base material was never good in the first place. I think Forgotten Realms mustve been the last of those brands to die, i remember it being the biggest but it was far from the best.  White Wolfs game was out (we learned from D&D, only bought one set of corebooks and the clanbooks) so i never noticed when those books went out of print even tho they were sitting on the shelf right next to the one i was getting most of my stuff from. I remember years later i found some Forgotten Realms books at the 3 for $1 bin at the comic book store.

    It's not about your tastes. Complain all you like, but these games are considered CRPG classics. Some even say they are the best second-wave CRPGs (with the first being Wizardry, Ultima. Bard's Tale and Might and Magic) around. So yeah, sorry for being with the crowd for once and liking the single most popular DnD setting.

    P.S. What's campy about mundane utility of magic? 

    EDIT: Seriously, complain all you like about the setting, but remember NWN 1-2? Those gave you awesome level editors, and basically said "here, be your own bloody GM".

    Forgotten Realms was the WOW of pnp games, bland and uninspired gameplay which apealed to childish sensitivities. What was camp about it? It was the freaking flintstones! I had to deal with lost baggage in an "airport" for dragons because the guest GM decided "airline" employees didnt care for my "attitude" regarding their service... We had peanuts and an inflight movie!

    Its funny at first but it gets old fast... Did you think i tried any computer games after having read most of the source material? Ofc not, they might have left the silly stuff out of those but it didnt make the setting any less lame. But on to what we were discussing do you think the movies were any good? Ever tried reading D&D comics? For people who cant tell the diference it might apear this is what the game was about, i was merely suggesting that the OP stayed away from D&D stuff if he had a pnp background which is the reason i havent tried DDO myself.

    Geez, RPG "classics" were mostly unplayable for old school pnp RPGers... If it wasnt for Nes FFIV i probably wouldve given up on the genre as well...

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Caleveira
    What was camp about it? It was the freaking flintstones! I had to deal with lost baggage in an "airport" for dragons because the guest GM decided "airline" employees didnt care for my "attitude" regarding their service... We had peanuts and an inflight movie!



     

    Er...wow.

    Are you really blaming the IP for your DM being bad?  Really?!

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Member Posts: 556
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by Caleveira
    What was camp about it? It was the freaking flintstones! I had to deal with lost baggage in an "airport" for dragons because the guest GM decided "airline" employees didnt care for my "attitude" regarding their service... We had peanuts and an inflight movie!



     

    Er...wow.

    Are you really blaming the IP for your DM being bad?  Really?!



     

    LOL, no, that was a guest GM and we never had him over again. But source material actually was full of dumb stuff like that; magical post services, magical factories with production lines, gryphons and pegassi actually being used for mundane tasks, a magic telecomunications sector... They actually had a mythic creature (cant remember the name, it was originally intended to lurk in dungeons underground of manned forts) that would eat sewage, so even modern utility services were posible through magic... And really you dont want to get into gnomish lore, lets just say it coulve been the work of Eric Cartman.

    Like i said, freaking flintstones...

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • GoronianGoronian Member Posts: 724
    Originally posted by Caleveira

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by Caleveira
    What was camp about it? It was the freaking flintstones! I had to deal with lost baggage in an "airport" for dragons because the guest GM decided "airline" employees didnt care for my "attitude" regarding their service... We had peanuts and an inflight movie!



     

    Er...wow.

    Are you really blaming the IP for your DM being bad?  Really?!



     

    LOL, no, that was a guest GM and we never had him over again. But source material actually was full of dumb stuff like that; magical post services, magical factories with production lines, gryphons and pegassi actually being used for mundane tasks, a magic telecomunications sector... They actually had a mythic creature (cant remember the name, it was originally intended to lurk in dungeons underground of manned forts) that would eat sewage, so even modern utility services were posible through magic... And really you dont want to get into gnomish lore, lets just say it coulve been the work of Eric Cartman.

    Like i said, freaking flintstones...

    So you didn't like the setting. Good for you, try not to impose it on anyone.

    And adding "lol" to your post really makes you mature, y'know.

    Just sayin', but the Mundane Utility is one of my favourite tropes. Why? Because it makes sense in a naturally evolving universe. Because it made sense in ours.

    "Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", after all.

     

    And on this "stops being magic" comment... You know, magic being forced into formulas and used for battles? That's not magic! Now "clap your hands, turn around and really-really believe", now that's what I call magic!

    Ahem. The games are still CRPG classics, with advanced rulesets, good storyline and deep immersive gameplay. Final Fantasy IS the WoW of Single-player RPGs.

    I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
    image

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