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"Instanced" gamplay is really "offline" gameplay

pencilrickpencilrick The Alamo, TXPosts: 1,550Member

If your gameplay is "instanced" or separated from the community by "phasing", you might as well be playing offline.  And if you are with a group, then okay, the group might as well be playing offline, maybe at a LAN party at someone's house.

MMO's are about many players sharing a world, and not meant to be about isolated segregated experiences.  The player who brags about having spent 10,000 gold on his instanced housing makes no more sense than someone bragging that they have an offline castle.  If you cannot see it, it does not exist (in the gameworld).  The player who goes into and comes out from an instanced dungeon, might as well have been logged off the whole time, as far as the community knows or cares.  The player who "phases" into some solo quest against an 80 Elite mob and uses some gimme item that is part of the quest chain and which zaps the creature into a non-elite mob that is easily defeated, has no more bragging rights than if he had been offline.

If it didn't happen in the greater shared gameworld, it didn't happen. 

"Instancing", "phasing", "linear story quests" and such all serve to isolate the player from the community and reduce the call load of customer service, since minimized player contact equates with minimized number of player complaints.  And I really think these "instancing" game design methods are more about the latter.  The whole "instancing" movement is really equivalent to sedating an entire psychiatric ward so the patients will all shut up and go to sleep.

"Instancing" and its forms have no place in great MMO's.  PERIOD.

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Comments

  • tro44_1tro44_1 washington, DCPosts: 1,819Member

    ok are you trying to inform us that something is bad?

    if so, please try again

  • scruffoscruffo northamptonshirePosts: 38Member

    I disagree whats wrong with having a little bit of offline gaming in an mmo? Instancing is needed in some cases to make quests a lot more fun they provide more varity than killing X quests this is best shown in Lord of the rings where some of the instances are unbelivly fun and could not be done on a live scale (mind the spelling typed this quick XD)

    i thought age of conan was ment to be new and exciting...

  • MaligarMaligar Charleston, SC, SCPosts: 81Member

    Yes, because we all know how realistic and cool it is it is to plow through a non-instanced dungeon for 2+ hours to finally reach the end boss, only to have some other party come in, kill you and you entire team, kill the boss, get the loot and then walk away laughing.  Thus forcing you and your team to respawn, start the whole dungeon over again, just to have the same thing occur right at the end.  Yes, this sounds like an AWESOME time.  Not.

    Maligar Kelison
    Threat Removal

  • PocahinhaPocahinha cidadePosts: 550Member

    Agree 10000% with the i hate instanced gameplay...instanced mmorpgs are not real mmorpgs

  • InvaderGUIInvaderGUI Aurora, COPosts: 62Member

      agree wth the OP. I personally think that instances are the biggest carebear creater n all MMOs. Instances take away  what an MMO is all about. Massave amounts of people. I really missed the old days of EQ when you had to compete for mobs. That was real fun. Then instances came along and now the games seem really empty. I dont see why anyone but carebears would enjoy an instance zone. Instance zones are the worst thing to happen to MMOs.

  • scruffoscruffo northamptonshirePosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Maligar


    Yes, because we all know how realistic and cool it is it is to plow through a non-instanced dungeon for 2+ hours to finally reach the end boss, only to have some other party come in, kill you and you entire team, kill the boss, get the loot and then walk away laughing.  Thus forcing you and your team to respawn, start the whole dungeon over again, just to have the same thing occur right at the end.  Yes, this sounds like an AWESOME time.  Not.

     

    So youd prefer to kill 100 orks for an epic quest rather than defend a castle for an hour fighting small bosses building up to a bigger boss? a lot of instances dont allow other teams in

    i thought age of conan was ment to be new and exciting...

  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr MiddlesbroughPosts: 2,142Member

    "MMO's are about many players sharing a world, and not meant to be about isolated segregated experiences."

    There are no lockable doors in a "shared world"?

    Your logic is completely without merit.

    This thread (and your recent posts in others on the same topic) is nothing more than you attempting to aggrandize your preferred playstyle by using flawed logic to "prove" that all other playstyles are invalid.

    You have not succeeded.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • HarabeckHarabeck Here, MEPosts: 616Member

    Absolutely ridiculous. Instanced gameplay has its place in the MMO genre. I hate instances personally. But that's because I like a certain kind of gameplay, it's just my preference. There are plenty of people who appreciate instanced content and that in no way makes them any less of an MMO player. An MMO isn't about putting up with a server's worth of retards. Most of the time, you just want to play with your friends.

    ""Players don't want to 'play' with thousands of people, they want to play with a small group in the presence of thousands. It's like an old-school arcade. You don't want to play pinball with 10 people, but playing by yourself in a crowded room is a lot more fun. Players have more varied play-sessions. Some still play for hours on end, some want to come in for some quick fun. "

    Jeffrey Steefel, The Lord of the Rings Online Executive Producer, Turbine via Massively.

  • axhedaxhed charlotte, NCPosts: 44Member


    "Instanced" gamplay is really "offline" gameplay

    spoken by someone who has never dc'd during a raid and relogged to find a 300+ queue.

    have a blessed thread.

  • RuynRuyn Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 1,052Member

    I absolutely agree with OP.  An MMO ceases to become an MMO if it's under a heavy influence of instancing.  You might as well play a 64 player map of BF2 or counterstike because you play with more people at a time and you don't pay a monthly fee.

  • JosherJosher Deerfield beach, FLPosts: 2,818Member

     Just so I get this right?  You think a dungeon with every spawn camped and a waiting line queue of 6+ hrs or worse to kill the boss is a good time?  You sir have no life=)

  • heremypetheremypet Tulsa, OKPosts: 528Member
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    "MMO's are about many players sharing a world, and not meant to be about isolated segregated experiences."
    There are no lockable doors in a "shared world"?
    Your logic is completely without merit.
    This thread (and your recent posts in others on the same topic) is nothing more than you attempting to aggrandize your preferred playstyle by using flawed logic to "prove" that all other playstyles are invalid.
    You have not succeeded.
     

    Comparing locked doors to instances is illogical, Mr. Spock.

    "Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."

  • HarabeckHarabeck Here, MEPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by Ruyn


    I absolutely agree with OP.  An MMO ceases to become an MMO if it's under a heavy influence of instancing.  You might as well play a 64 player map of BF2 or counterstike because you play with more people at a time and you don't pay a monthly fee.

    That's an absurd comparison. Do I really need to point out he differences between a counterstrike match and running instanced dungeons in an MMO?

  • Einstein-DFEinstein-DF New York, NYPosts: 752Member

     I agree 100%

     

    Everyone who disagrees are carebears, you know who you are.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by pencilrick


    If your gameplay is "instanced" or separated from the community by "phasing", you might as well be playing offline.  And if you are with a group, then okay, the group might as well be playing offline, maybe at a LAN party at someone's house.
    MMO's are about many players sharing a world, and not meant to be about isolated segregated experiences.  The player who brags about having spent 10,000 gold on his instanced housing makes no more sense than someone bragging that they have an offline castle.  If you cannot see it, it does not exist (in the gameworld).  The player who goes into and comes out from an instanced dungeon, might as well have been logged off the whole time, as far as the community knows or cares.  The player who "phases" into some solo quest against an 80 Elite mob and uses some gimme item that is part of the quest chain and which zaps the creature into a non-elite mob that is easily defeated, has no more bragging rights than if he had been offline.
    If it didn't happen in the greater shared gameworld, it didn't happen. 
    "Instancing", "phasing", "linear story quests" and such all serve to isolate the player from the community and reduce the call load of customer service, since minimized player contact equates with minimized number of player complaints.  And I really think these "instancing" game design methods are more about the latter.  The whole "instancing" movement is really equivalent to sedating an entire psychiatric ward so the patients will all shut up and go to sleep.
    "Instancing" and its forms have no place in great MMO's.  PERIOD.

     

    Stupid rant that no developer is listening to.

    If you don't like instancing, you don't have to play MMORPGs.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Einstein-DF


     I agree 100%
     
    Everyone who disagrees are carebears, you know who you are.

     

    I disagree 100%.

    Everyone agrees are no-lifers that like to stand in line for 10 hours to spend 1 min to kill the boss, you know who you are.

  • jackeccsjackeccs Kaukauna, WIPosts: 392Member Uncommon

    Ok, so anyone saying anything about waiting hours for people to complete a dungeon is dumb. True, 90% of MMO's are that shallow to only have a single dungeon for a certain level range. But, a smart MMO would have a lot of dungeons for all level ranges. Not just a single one where everyone has to wait and get camped.

    Instances are noob. A real MMO has a large world and is seamless. Before anyone starts to say anything about ohh dur what about a small world with lots of detail. Well, this is where it comes down to having a company with enough money to make something unique that works, than a lot of companies making the same damn thing that fails every time.

     

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  • Einstein-DFEinstein-DF New York, NYPosts: 752Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Einstein-DF


     I agree 100%
     
    Everyone who disagrees are carebears, you know who you are.

     

    I disagree 100%.

    Everyone agrees are no-lifers that like to stand in line for 10 hours to spend 1 min to kill the boss, you know who you are.

     

     

    I dont stand in any line for any hours. Get a group together, go in kill everyone (FFA pvp obviously) get out. If we loose its our own fault for sucking/not bringing enough manpower. 

     

    No excuses 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by jackeccs


    Ok, so anyone saying anything about waiting hours for people to complete a dungeon is dumb. True, 90% of MMO's are that shallow to only have a single dungeon for a certain level range. But, a smart MMO would have a lot of dungeons for all level ranges. Not just a single one where everyone has to wait and get camped.
    Instances are noob. A real MMO has a large world and is seamless. Before anyone starts to say anything about ohh dur what about a small world with lots of detail. Well, this is where it comes down to having a company with enough money to make something unique that works, than a lot of companies making the same damn thing that fails every time.
     

     

    Stupid rant with no idea of how expensive content is. Even the richest company would not afford to build so many dungeons. There are a few THOUSAND people on each shard of a standard MMO at any time. Do you think they can build HUNDREDS of dungeons? You are dreaming. Not even blizzard can afford that.

  • jackeccsjackeccs Kaukauna, WIPosts: 392Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by jackeccs


    Ok, so anyone saying anything about waiting hours for people to complete a dungeon is dumb. True, 90% of MMO's are that shallow to only have a single dungeon for a certain level range. But, a smart MMO would have a lot of dungeons for all level ranges. Not just a single one where everyone has to wait and get camped.
    Instances are noob. A real MMO has a large world and is seamless. Before anyone starts to say anything about ohh dur what about a small world with lots of detail. Well, this is where it comes down to having a company with enough money to make something unique that works, than a lot of companies making the same damn thing that fails every time.
     

     

    Stupid rant with no idea of how expensive content is. Even the richest company would not afford to build so many dungeons. There are a few THOUSAND people on each shard of a standard MMO at any time. Do you think they can build HUNDREDS of dungeons? You are dreaming. Not even blizzard can afford that.

     

    Then don't go into the market. How many game companies wished they wouldn't have? Blizzard could easily do that, if there's any stupid rant it's what you just said there. Look how many games their working on, and how many people they have on their teams. They could easily make a game with hundreds of dungeons. So tell me, aside from the salary every employee gets anyway, how much extra does content cost? It's whether the content is junk or not.

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  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    Reply to the topic: Don't really care as long as its good.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • HarabeckHarabeck Here, MEPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by jackeccs

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by jackeccs


    Ok, so anyone saying anything about waiting hours for people to complete a dungeon is dumb. True, 90% of MMO's are that shallow to only have a single dungeon for a certain level range. But, a smart MMO would have a lot of dungeons for all level ranges. Not just a single one where everyone has to wait and get camped.
    Instances are noob. A real MMO has a large world and is seamless. Before anyone starts to say anything about ohh dur what about a small world with lots of detail. Well, this is where it comes down to having a company with enough money to make something unique that works, than a lot of companies making the same damn thing that fails every time.
     

     

    Stupid rant with no idea of how expensive content is. Even the richest company would not afford to build so many dungeons. There are a few THOUSAND people on each shard of a standard MMO at any time. Do you think they can build HUNDREDS of dungeons? You are dreaming. Not even blizzard can afford that.

     

    Then don't go into the market. How many game companies wished they wouldn't have? Blizzard could easily do that, if there's any stupid rant it's what you just said there. Look how many games their working on, and how many people they have on their teams. They could easily make a game with hundreds of dungeons. So tell me, aside from the salary every employee gets anyway, how much extra does content cost? It's whether the content is junk or not.

    Your ignorance is astounding. You obviously have no idea what kind of effort goes into designing something like a dungeon. Further, if they made enough dungeons to accommodate everyone on the server without instancing, do you think they would all be unique? They would all be based on a few basic designs then be copy pasted. You can't design hundreds of unique dungeons in any kind of timely manner.

    Also, what good would that do? Instead of instances, you have more open, copied spaces between the various dungeon copies. How the hell is that better?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by jackeccs

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by jackeccs


    Ok, so anyone saying anything about waiting hours for people to complete a dungeon is dumb. True, 90% of MMO's are that shallow to only have a single dungeon for a certain level range. But, a smart MMO would have a lot of dungeons for all level ranges. Not just a single one where everyone has to wait and get camped.
    Instances are noob. A real MMO has a large world and is seamless. Before anyone starts to say anything about ohh dur what about a small world with lots of detail. Well, this is where it comes down to having a company with enough money to make something unique that works, than a lot of companies making the same damn thing that fails every time.
     

     

    Stupid rant with no idea of how expensive content is. Even the richest company would not afford to build so many dungeons. There are a few THOUSAND people on each shard of a standard MMO at any time. Do you think they can build HUNDREDS of dungeons? You are dreaming. Not even blizzard can afford that.

     

    Then don't go into the market. How many game companies wished they wouldn't have? Blizzard could easily do that, if there's any stupid rant it's what you just said there. Look how many games their working on, and how many people they have on their teams. They could easily make a game with hundreds of dungeons. So tell me, aside from the salary every employee gets anyway, how much extra does content cost? It's whether the content is junk or not.

     

    LOL .. you have no common sense at all. Blizzard spent MONTHs to get a content patch with ONE dungeon and ONE raid dungeon. DO you know how much art, design, testing go into each encounter?

     

    Sure, you can have random dungeon with generic encounters in the hundreds. Those are NO FUN. I want scripted, highly polished, and GOOD boss fight that have different level of difficulties.

    In fact, it is NOT possible to do boss fight that well without instancing.

     

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,753Member Uncommon

    The sad part is the more baseless and devoid of logic a thread is, the more posts and discussion it typically gets (when the reverse should be true.)

    WTB forums with a "Post but don't bump the thread" feature.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt


    The sad part is the more baseless and devoid of logic a thread is, the more posts and discussion it typically gets (when the inverse should be true.)
    WTB forums with a "Post but don't bump the thread" feature.

     

    Bump. This is the Internet. Logic is not required.

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