Originally posted by Esquire1980 I have to admit. I take no enjoyment out of seeing Kauri on the closing list.
I agree in the closing of Kauri , in my case its like destroying the scene of crime, in my case the mishandling of my accounts and thus my business with SOE.
Now if I press SOE on what happened and the real reason why my accounts were Premabanned they can claim that the location of this alleged infraction took place no longer exists. How convenient!
All of SOE's games have had server merges at some point and all but one are stil running. Of course, I guess this translates to SOE is shutting down?
Matrix Online?
Looks like you missed the "all but one" part in the post you quoted
With the evercrack titles SOE doesnt have to split profits with an IP owner nor does it have to deal with an IP owner on content additions/changes.
I still cant believe people think SOE is shutting down. SWG is still making SOE and LA millions in subs and card sales. EQ2 isnt doing good like SWG but it still has players, EQ1 is the money maker for SOE. The way it works is Station Pass. SOE doesnt count on one game to make, they have multiple titles to attract players. Im sure they are working on a new set of games. I agree that most of what they have is looking dated and dead, its time for a new batch.
The way I think they are opperating at SOE today is keep a skeleton crew on the games, put most resources into development and hope the new games bring in people. Didnt you see the new announcement , they are hireing developers for a new flaggship project. My guess is its the next EQ, but Ive read it wont be called EQ, more than likely a fantasy game to compete with WOW.
I submit that SOE makes more from EQ2 than from SWG for the simple reason they do not have to share any of the profits. They have been workng on new MMOs concurrently with their current lineup for some time. Hell...look at all of the former SWG devs who are now working on some of those new projects...not to mention the ones who have flown the coop out of SOE so to speak after moving to said projects. Revolving door.
All of SOE's games have had server merges at some point and all but one are stil running. Of course, I guess this translates to SOE is shutting down?
I think the impact of what you just posted went right over your head.
Think about it this way: Which soe games are growing?
SOE 2004: over a million subscribers
SOE 2009: 2-300,000 tops.
Still running, yes.
Closing down, no, but heading in that direction for sure.
Yes, let's ignore the majority of other MMO companies that have merged servers. Shall we take a look at...NCsoft?
I did not bring up other companies who closed servers, because it does not change the position that soe is in. Just like I didn't bring up other companies that are adding servers/subscribers for years on end, because that doesn't change the position that soe is in.
Trying to deflect attention away from soe to another company has no bearing on the state of affairs at soe. If another company is going bankrupt, that doesn't make soe more successful does it?
Soe may not be closing down, but it is undenyable that they are heading in that direction far more than they are heading in the direction of success.
SOE was once the undisputed leader in the industry. Now the only thing they really have a lead in is most mmos with closed servers. No one comes close to the number of declining games they do. Looking at several of the games and it is pretty obvious that they will take the title for most closed games within the near future.
I am going to name the biggest success stories for soe this decade:
1) the purchase of the everquest franchise. It has been their best producer over the years, but it is long past its prime.
2) SWG: fastest selling mmo ever [during that time period]. Second biggest mmo in north america. Also the single biggest example of what not to do in an mmo which chased away the overwhelming majority of players.
3) everquest 2: closed half of its servers within a year
4) free realms: 5 million accounts signed up. 1 medium population server and the rest so empty it makes a SWG server look like grand cenrtal station.
So far I see nothing from soe this decade that shows long term sustainability. I see a company with a flock of dieing products in a larger company that is looking to cut costs. That is just what I see though. Maybe you see something that makes their future look brighter?
Originally posted by BullseyeArc1 I still cant believe people think SOE is shutting down. SWG is still making SOE and LA millions in subs and card sales. EQ2 isnt doing good like SWG but it still has players, EQ1 is the money maker for SOE. The way it works is Station Pass. SOE doesnt count on one game to make, they have multiple titles to attract players. Im sure they are working on a new set of games. I agree that most of what they have is looking dated and dead, its time for a new batch.
I don't think soe is shutting down, but I think unless they have some success in the mmo field soon, sony corp might end their further investment into mmos. Maybe let them suck their current games dry until they finally close, but their mmo days may just be numbered.
If SWG made more money than EQ2, then SWG would have developers making paid expansions for the game.
If Everquest were the real money maker, then John Smedley would be able to pronounce the name of the lead developer of the game.
Station pass hurts soe just as much as it might help. Each station pass subscriber can be counted as a subscriber to multiple games. Each station pass subscriber that quits costs soe as much as multiple subscribers.
I really think you over value SWG in terms of its revenue value for soe/lucas arts. I doubt very much either company is making millionS from the game.
All of SOE's games have had server merges at some point and all but one are stil running. Of course, I guess this translates to SOE is shutting down?
Matrix Online?
Looks like you missed the "all but one" part in the post you quoted
With the evercrack titles SOE doesnt have to split profits with an IP owner nor does it have to deal with an IP owner on content additions/changes.
I still cant believe people think SOE is shutting down. SWG is still making SOE and LA millions in subs and card sales. EQ2 isnt doing good like SWG but it still has players, EQ1 is the money maker for SOE. The way it works is Station Pass. SOE doesnt count on one game to make, they have multiple titles to attract players. Im sure they are working on a new set of games. I agree that most of what they have is looking dated and dead, its time for a new batch.
The way I think they are opperating at SOE today is keep a skeleton crew on the games, put most resources into development and hope the new games bring in people. Didnt you see the new announcement , they are hireing developers for a new flaggship project. My guess is its the next EQ, but Ive read it wont be called EQ, more than likely a fantasy game to compete with WOW.
swg is full of new and returning players. the servers are always at medium to heavy during peak times thanks to SOE's card game and badgerbanger's grouping tools. of course they are all spies and cloaked so you cant see them....and they put themselves on anonymous too...yeah....thats it.
All of SOE's games have had server merges at some point and all but one are stil running. Of course, I guess this translates to SOE is shutting down?
I think the impact of what you just posted went right over your head.
Think about it this way: Which soe games are growing?
SOE 2004: over a million subscribers
SOE 2009: 2-300,000 tops.
Still running, yes.
Closing down, no, but heading in that direction for sure.
Yes, let's ignore the majority of other MMO companies that have merged servers. Shall we take a look at...NCsoft?
I did not bring up other companies who closed servers, because it does not change the position that soe is in. Just like I didn't bring up other companies that are adding servers/subscribers for years on end, because that doesn't change the position that soe is in.
Trying to deflect attention away from soe to another company has no bearing on the state of affairs at soe. If another company is going bankrupt, that doesn't make soe more successful does it?
Soe may not be closing down, but it is undenyable that they are heading in that direction far more than they are heading in the direction of success.
SOE was once the undisputed leader in the industry. Now the only thing they really have a lead in is most mmos with closed servers. No one comes close to the number of declining games they do. Looking at several of the games and it is pretty obvious that they will take the title for most closed games within the near future.
I am going to name the biggest success stories for soe this decade:
1) the purchase of the everquest franchise. It has been their best producer over the years, but it is long past its prime.
2) SWG: fastest selling mmo ever [during that time period]. Second biggest mmo in north america. Also the single biggest example of what not to do in an mmo which chased away the overwhelming majority of players.
3) everquest 2: closed half of its servers within a year
4) free realms: 5 million accounts signed up. 1 medium population server and the rest so empty it makes a SWG server look like grand cenrtal station.
So far I see nothing from soe this decade that shows long term sustainability. I see a company with a flock of dieing products in a larger company that is looking to cut costs. That is just what I see though. Maybe you see something that makes their future look brighter?
That's some nice spin
Going back to NCsoft, they've had two recent release games fail and close (Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa) and I believe there was another game that got cancelled before it was even released. In my view, that makes them less sucessful. They've also merged servers on some of their active games. I think you'll find ALL MMO companies except Blizzard (although a quick search shows even people playing WoW are calling for merges on some of their servers) have merged servers in their games at some point.
Rather then being a sign of failure, it's more part of the general activities carried out by an MMO developer.
Going back to NCsoft, they've had two recent release games fail and close (Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa) and I believe there was another game that got cancelled before it was even released. In my view, that makes them less sucessful. They've also merged servers on some of their active games. I think you'll find ALL MMO companies except Blizzard (although a quick search shows even people playing WoW are calling for merges on some of their servers) have merged servers in their games at some point. Rather then being a sign of failure, it's more part of the general activities carried out by an MMO developer.
I am talking about the situation directly relating to soe, not pointing at the failures of another company in an attempt to boost the image of soe. Look who is trying to spin the discussion.
Really, the failures of NCSoft do not make SOE a success. Just like your complete disregard for the success rate of NCSoft in comparison to SOE doesn't change the performance of soe one bit.. Stop deflecting. Judge soe by its own performance.
Seriously stop trying to make this a discussion about NCSoft.
Can you name 1 game from soe that is growing? Please show me a game that is going to replace the declining revenue that soe have undergone the last several years. If another NCSoft game fails that will not somehow make soe more money will it? Show where this success is coming from.
When the entire product line of a company is trending downward, especially at the rate that soe is, then yes it is heading towards failure unless something changes. All of the mmo products that soe has right now are long long past their prime and most would have been shut down long ago by any other company. I am more than certain soe has a timeline based on their numbers to roughly predict where each of their mmos becomes unprofitable.
That is why you are seeing layoffs, game closures, server closures, lead developers departing, release delays, hyper inflation of micro transaction money grabs through out all of their games and things of that nature. These are direct actions to cut costs and lengthen the timelime to failure.
A company that has their entire product line in decline is not a sustainable company. Something has to change or the innevitable will happen.
I will say it again, soe is not a success, just because some other company failed. That does not change the current state of the company. Soe has been unsuccessfully trying to repeat the success of the first game they purchased, but has not even come close for ten years. How much longer can things go the way they are currently going without some major changes?
One thing I would like to point out to you. Your definition of a successful company is one that loses 70% or more of its customers in a few short years. I really really want you to think about that for a moment if you want to continue this discussion.
Name one corporation that could tell its shareholders they have lost over 2/3 of their marketshare the last several years and have those shareholders call it a success. Knock yourself out.
Funny, I seem to remember one of our resident SOE supporters posting this: "For those that play SWG regularly, we're all seeing more players than ever taking part in SWG with new, returning and active players enjoying the game immensely. Even the "Transfer from" servers are starting to rebuild their communities, it may take the best part of this year but if the last month is anything to go by, these passionate communites on servers like Infinity and Scylla will continue to grow over the coming year and once again be attractive to players looking for large populations." Thanks for setting the record straight Inat. Any accurate information about the game is helpful in my view.
The sad part is...he wasn't alone in his thinking. He was taking the MESS that SoE had created with FCTS and making it better for the few players/people left on the servers - including any new players that made the mistake of starting on one of the dead servers.
SoE botched this from the start...they didn't pick enough servers and they lied about their intentions (server closings). They should have immediately ceased new toon creation on the "dead" servers if closing them was their ultimate goal. Instead, they mislead the entire playerbase and allowed players, like Badger, to believe the servers would be there indefinitely...which lead to months of recreating what had been destroyed...the community.
IMO, HE took a shot to the nuts yesterday as this announcement affects him far more than most players.
I know Inat is correct in what he said too, that the zombie update WILL happen...but that just further exhibits SoE's stubborn nature. They truly do not give a flying **edit** what the players want...it's all about what THEY have decided. I'm very disappointed in Teesquared (the new Producer) for not having the balls to stop development of something this tremendously foolish. If he were half the leader he should be, he would have scrapped Dotanuki's plans for it and focused on something that would make SWG BETTER! Keeping his job, retaining customers, attracting players should be his focus...not following Dotanuki's foolish lead.
"Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him"
Funny, I seem to remember one of our resident SOE supporters posting this: "For those that play SWG regularly, we're all seeing more players than ever taking part in SWG with new, returning and active players enjoying the game immensely. Even the "Transfer from" servers are starting to rebuild their communities, it may take the best part of this year but if the last month is anything to go by, these passionate communites on servers like Infinity and Scylla will continue to grow over the coming year and once again be attractive to players looking for large populations." Thanks for setting the record straight Inat. Any accurate information about the game is helpful in my view.
The sad part is...he wasn't alone in his thinking. He was taking the MESS that SoE had created with FCTS and making it better for the few players/people left on the servers - including any new players that made the mistake of starting on one of the dead servers.
SoE botched this from the start...they didn't pick enough servers and they lied about their intentions (server closings). They should have immediately ceased new toon creation on the "dead" servers if closing them was their ultimate goal. Instead, they mislead the entire playerbase and allowed players, like Badger, to believe the servers would be there indefinitely...which lead to months of recreating what had been destroyed...the community.
IMO, HE took a shot to the nuts yesterday as this announcement affects him far more than most players.
I know Inat is correct in what he said too, that the zombie update WILL happen...but that just further exhibits SoE's stubborn nature. They truly do not give a flying **edit** what the players want...it's all about what THEY have decided. I'm very disappointed in Teesquared (the new Producer) for not having the balls to stop development of something this tremendously foolish. If he were half the leader he should be, he would have scrapped Dotanuki's plans for it and focused on something that would make SWG BETTER! Keeping his job, retaining customers, attracting players should be his focus...not following Dotanuki's foolish lead.
"Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him"
I believe what some here are forgeting that even after FCTS there are many servers whos players are on the GP boards asking for further FCTS from the transfer to servers. In the past year I've seen Bria, which at the time I transfered was the largest server, take a large fall in population, then others who took the paid transfer system to Starsider. The same way it all happened with Kauri in 2007.
As with the Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade, if they start development on something, what you see is what you get. They are not going to stop development of anything, once it's in the works if the playerbase likes it or not. C6CD had thousands of posts, many threads of discontent, and it still came, just as they said it would. Zombies, be your own developer, and GCW (what? we still don't know) will be exactly the same. I doubt Teesquared had the power to discontinue Dot's ideas and even further, I doubt he would of CHANGED anything even if he could, just because it was started and no sence waisting dev time.
Badger lives in SOE world. "We can CHANGE the game enough to save it". C6CD - GU- Whatever was "get back the vets at the cost of the NGE players". It really doesn't matter what the existing playerbase thinks, we will get more people than we had before after we make all these CHANGES. Even after CU, NGE, and C6CD, SOE Austin, and Badger, still believe that. Everytime this has been tried, it remains the same outcome. Less subs than there were before. Maybe they both have good intentions, but failure to learn from history dooms one to repeat it. Server shut-downs are only the fruit of their toils.
All of SOE's games have had server merges at some point and all but one are stil running. Of course, I guess this translates to SOE is shutting down?
I think the impact of what you just posted went right over your head.
Think about it this way: Which soe games are growing?
SOE 2004: over a million subscribers
SOE 2009: 2-300,000 tops.
Still running, yes.
Closing down, no, but heading in that direction for sure.
Yes, let's ignore the majority of other MMO companies that have merged servers. Shall we take a look at...NCsoft?
I did not bring up other companies who closed servers, because it does not change the position that soe is in. Just like I didn't bring up other companies that are adding servers/subscribers for years on end, because that doesn't change the position that soe is in.
Trying to deflect attention away from soe to another company has no bearing on the state of affairs at soe. If another company is going bankrupt, that doesn't make soe more successful does it?
Soe may not be closing down, but it is undenyable that they are heading in that direction far more than they are heading in the direction of success.
SOE was once the undisputed leader in the industry. Now the only thing they really have a lead in is most mmos with closed servers. No one comes close to the number of declining games they do. Looking at several of the games and it is pretty obvious that they will take the title for most closed games within the near future.
I am going to name the biggest success stories for soe this decade:
1) the purchase of the everquest franchise. It has been their best producer over the years, but it is long past its prime.
2) SWG: fastest selling mmo ever [during that time period]. Second biggest mmo in north america. Also the single biggest example of what not to do in an mmo which chased away the overwhelming majority of players.
3) everquest 2: closed half of its servers within a year
4) free realms: 5 million accounts signed up. 1 medium population server and the rest so empty it makes a SWG server look like grand cenrtal station.
So far I see nothing from soe this decade that shows long term sustainability. I see a company with a flock of dieing products in a larger company that is looking to cut costs. That is just what I see though. Maybe you see something that makes their future look brighter?
That's some nice spin
Going back to NCsoft, they've had two recent release games fail and close (Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa) and I believe there was another game that got cancelled before it was even released. In my view, that makes them less sucessful. They've also merged servers on some of their active games. I think you'll find ALL MMO companies except Blizzard (although a quick search shows even people playing WoW are calling for merges on some of their servers) have merged servers in their games at some point.
Rather then being a sign of failure, it's more part of the general activities carried out by an MMO developer.
MY GOD THE SPIN i knew when i heard about the closing of half of the swg servers you soe supporters would go into uberspin mode but saying NCsoft is less successful than soe...
even with the closing of auto assault and tabula rasa you conveniently left out that lineage 1 and 2 are both million dollar games in asia. lineage 2 still is. and aion beats WOW in asia. NCsoft obviously knows what the market wants and provides that. NCsoft makes millions every year and soe? loosing subs and claiming success with a FREE GAME (free realms). and as far as blizzard merging servers that is acceptable considering the BILLIONS wow has made.
All of SOE's games have had server merges at some point and all but one are stil running. Of course, I guess this translates to SOE is shutting down?
I think the impact of what you just posted went right over your head.
Think about it this way: Which soe games are growing?
SOE 2004: over a million subscribers
SOE 2009: 2-300,000 tops.
Still running, yes.
Closing down, no, but heading in that direction for sure.
Yes, let's ignore the majority of other MMO companies that have merged servers. Shall we take a look at...NCsoft?
I did not bring up other companies who closed servers, because it does not change the position that soe is in. Just like I didn't bring up other companies that are adding servers/subscribers for years on end, because that doesn't change the position that soe is in.
Trying to deflect attention away from soe to another company has no bearing on the state of affairs at soe. If another company is going bankrupt, that doesn't make soe more successful does it?
Soe may not be closing down, but it is undenyable that they are heading in that direction far more than they are heading in the direction of success.
SOE was once the undisputed leader in the industry. Now the only thing they really have a lead in is most mmos with closed servers. No one comes close to the number of declining games they do. Looking at several of the games and it is pretty obvious that they will take the title for most closed games within the near future.
I am going to name the biggest success stories for soe this decade:
1) the purchase of the everquest franchise. It has been their best producer over the years, but it is long past its prime.
2) SWG: fastest selling mmo ever [during that time period]. Second biggest mmo in north america. Also the single biggest example of what not to do in an mmo which chased away the overwhelming majority of players.
3) everquest 2: closed half of its servers within a year
4) free realms: 5 million accounts signed up. 1 medium population server and the rest so empty it makes a SWG server look like grand cenrtal station.
So far I see nothing from soe this decade that shows long term sustainability. I see a company with a flock of dieing products in a larger company that is looking to cut costs. That is just what I see though. Maybe you see something that makes their future look brighter?
That's some nice spin
Going back to NCsoft, they've had two recent release games fail and close (Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa) and I believe there was another game that got cancelled before it was even released. In my view, that makes them less sucessful. They've also merged servers on some of their active games. I think you'll find ALL MMO companies except Blizzard (although a quick search shows even people playing WoW are calling for merges on some of their servers) have merged servers in their games at some point.
Rather then being a sign of failure, it's more part of the general activities carried out by an MMO developer.
MY GOD THE SPIN i knew when i heard about the closing of half of the swg servers you soe supporters would go into uberspin mode but saying NCsoft is less successful than soe...
even with the closing of auto assault and tabula rasa you conveniently left out that lineage 1 and 2 are both million dollar games in asia. lineage 2 still is. and aion beats WOW in asia. NCsoft obviously knows what the market wants and provides that. NCsoft makes millions every year and soe? loosing subs and claiming success with a FREE GAME (free realms). and as far as blizzard merging servers that is acceptable considering the BILLIONS wow has made.
The spin is enough to make one dizzy...
That having been said, at some point Sony Corp is going to take a long HARD look at SOE. At that point, I suspect things will be dealt with in a most unpleasant fashion. But the idea that NCsoft has a clue about what the market *outside of Asia* wants flies in the face of years of evidence to the contrary. The jury is still out in regards to Aion in the west, but from early reports, they are making some of the same classic mistakes in that regard. It will be interesting to see what their subs are two months after launch. Given the cultural differences between Korea and the west, its no real surprise that they continue to have a difficult time making the transition. As for Smed, imagine him as Mr Morden in that conversation with Vir Cotto in B5 when he asked what Vir wanted...<Waves....Very evil grin>
Don't forget NCSoft is also represented very well by Guild Wars and City of Heroes. Both doing very well in the western market.
SOE failed every attempt they made to venture into the eastern market and are collapsing in the western market as well.
However, this is exactly what Obriak wants. People talking about SOE vs NCSoft as if that will somehow improve the situation that soe is in right now. A company with nearly 10 mmos that have all been on the decline for years. Most of which should have been sunset a long time ago.
I really can't think of a single success soe has had in the last 5 years.
Going back to NCsoft, they've had two recent release games fail and close (Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa) and I believe there was another game that got cancelled before it was even released. In my view, that makes them less sucessful. They've also merged servers on some of their active games. I think you'll find ALL MMO companies except Blizzard (although a quick search shows even people playing WoW are calling for merges on some of their servers) have merged servers in their games at some point. Rather then being a sign of failure, it's more part of the general activities carried out by an MMO developer.
I am talking about the situation directly relating to soe, not pointing at the failures of another company in an attempt to boost the image of soe. Look who is trying to spin the discussion.
Really, the failures of NCSoft do not make SOE a success. Just like your complete disregard for the success rate of NCSoft in comparison to SOE doesn't change the performance of soe one bit.. Stop deflecting. Judge soe by its own performance.
Seriously stop trying to make this a discussion about NCSoft.
Can you name 1 game from soe that is growing? Please show me a game that is going to replace the declining revenue that soe have undergone the last several years. If another NCSoft game fails that will not somehow make soe more money will it? Show where this success is coming from.
When the entire product line of a company is trending downward, especially at the rate that soe is, then yes it is heading towards failure unless something changes. All of the mmo products that soe has right now are long long past their prime and most would have been shut down long ago by any other company. I am more than certain soe has a timeline based on their numbers to roughly predict where each of their mmos becomes unprofitable.
That is why you are seeing layoffs, game closures, server closures, lead developers departing, release delays, hyper inflation of micro transaction money grabs through out all of their games and things of that nature. These are direct actions to cut costs and lengthen the timelime to failure.
A company that has their entire product line in decline is not a sustainable company. Something has to change or the innevitable will happen.
I will say it again, soe is not a success, just because some other company failed. That does not change the current state of the company. Soe has been unsuccessfully trying to repeat the success of the first game they purchased, but has not even come close for ten years. How much longer can things go the way they are currently going without some major changes?
One thing I would like to point out to you. Your definition of a successful company is one that loses 70% or more of its customers in a few short years. I really really want you to think about that for a moment if you want to continue this discussion.
Name one corporation that could tell its shareholders they have lost over 2/3 of their marketshare the last several years and have those shareholders call it a success. Knock yourself out.
No one here is qualified to say which of SOE's games are growing or shrinking. It's quite easy for you to quote all these numbers, but where exactly are you getting them from? SOE certainly isn't releasing them so it can't be from them, which leads me to believe you're simply guessing. To be quite honest, you're really in no position to provide any kind of accurate guess as to what the state of SOE or its games are given your heavy bias towards them.
Shrug it off as much you wish but my point still stands. Closing down and merging servers in the MMO industry is not abnormal, infact it's pretty common across all MMO companies. If this is what you're using to judge whether an MMO company is successful or not then I suggest you find a better measuring device.
Going back to NCsoft, they've had two recent release games fail and close (Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa) and I believe there was another game that got cancelled before it was even released. In my view, that makes them less sucessful. They've also merged servers on some of their active games. I think you'll find ALL MMO companies except Blizzard (although a quick search shows even people playing WoW are calling for merges on some of their servers) have merged servers in their games at some point. Rather then being a sign of failure, it's more part of the general activities carried out by an MMO developer.
I am talking about the situation directly relating to soe, not pointing at the failures of another company in an attempt to boost the image of soe. Look who is trying to spin the discussion.
Really, the failures of NCSoft do not make SOE a success. Just like your complete disregard for the success rate of NCSoft in comparison to SOE doesn't change the performance of soe one bit.. Stop deflecting. Judge soe by its own performance.
Seriously stop trying to make this a discussion about NCSoft.
Can you name 1 game from soe that is growing? Please show me a game that is going to replace the declining revenue that soe have undergone the last several years. If another NCSoft game fails that will not somehow make soe more money will it? Show where this success is coming from.
When the entire product line of a company is trending downward, especially at the rate that soe is, then yes it is heading towards failure unless something changes. All of the mmo products that soe has right now are long long past their prime and most would have been shut down long ago by any other company. I am more than certain soe has a timeline based on their numbers to roughly predict where each of their mmos becomes unprofitable.
That is why you are seeing layoffs, game closures, server closures, lead developers departing, release delays, hyper inflation of micro transaction money grabs through out all of their games and things of that nature. These are direct actions to cut costs and lengthen the timelime to failure.
A company that has their entire product line in decline is not a sustainable company. Something has to change or the innevitable will happen.
I will say it again, soe is not a success, just because some other company failed. That does not change the current state of the company. Soe has been unsuccessfully trying to repeat the success of the first game they purchased, but has not even come close for ten years. How much longer can things go the way they are currently going without some major changes?
One thing I would like to point out to you. Your definition of a successful company is one that loses 70% or more of its customers in a few short years. I really really want you to think about that for a moment if you want to continue this discussion.
Name one corporation that could tell its shareholders they have lost over 2/3 of their marketshare the last several years and have those shareholders call it a success. Knock yourself out.
No one here is qualified to say which of SOE's games are growing or shrinking. It's quite easy for you to quote all these numbers, but where exactly are you getting them from? SOE certainly isn't releasing them so it can't be from them, which leads me to believe you're simply guessing. To be quite honest, you're really in no position to provide any kind of accurate guess as to what the state of SOE or its games are given your heavy bias towards them.
Shrug it off as much you wish but my point still stands. Closing down and merging servers in the MMO industry is not abnormal, infact it's pretty common across all MMO companies. If this is what you're using to judge whether an MMO company is successful or not then I suggest you find a better measuring device.
i think all of us here are qualified to say how $OE is doing we all know that the nge has failed and now it has less players then ever eq 1 and 2 are dying off and no one wants to play those free realms is bombing plantside is going bye bye really by this time next year all $OE will have are card games that no one likes.
shutting down servers shows that the game is dying let me ask you something do you see eve shutting down servers? do you see wow shutting down servers? i don't.
i see $OE shutting down nge servers and by the end of the year shutting the nge down for good.
1) They did not originally plan for the amount of people they now had and upgraded their systems only after they found it was more popular than they thought.
2) Eve operates one open world, not numerous. Closing down one means they close it all down.
WoW has introduced new servers to cope with rising demand... similar to EvE but in a different way.
The proplem is not that the game is failing, it is that SOE projected a larger population than they got, this is a lesson many companies are now discovering (WAR, AoC, so forth) not because they have a bad game, but because they did not plan properly.
New games are now starting on smaller servers and less resources and then increasing their size after launch instead of before it... much safer and more economical. Both WoW and Eve expected less and as a result did not waste money at the start of their business... SOE should have done likewise.
Eve does not shut down servers for 2 reasons: 1) They did not originally plan for the amount of people they now had and upgraded their systems only after they found it was more popular than they thought. 2) Eve operates one open world, not numerous. Closing down one means they close it all down.
The proplem is not that the game is failing, it is that SOE projected a larger population than they got, this is a lesson many companies are now discovering (WAR, AoC, so forth) not because they have a bad game, but because they did not plan properly. New games are now starting on smaller servers and less resources and then increasing their size after launch instead of before it... much safer and more economical.
This I can agree with. While SOE didn't open some of the servers until after the launch, it was more a knee-jerk reaction to open them up (and possibly following a pre-determined plan). There wasn't a need for those extra servers back then (I never sat in queues wating to get into Chilastra) and there certainly isn't a need for them today.
i remember six months after swg came out i had nights where i would wait 40 minutes in a queue to get onto kauri with my friends.
i knew from the very start the first death blow to swg was putting jtls into the game lets face it jtls would bring in the action gaming whiners who couldn't hang in the ground game and supported the nge i knew the cu was a bad idea from the very start after all there was nothing wrong with swg. the game was fine outside a few bugs and it was getting more and more players.
now i just laugh seeing the fanbots and fanbois spam about how great the nge is
hey if it's so great then why are $OE shutting servers down?
if its so great why do I keep hearing "bring back pre-cu!" from the players?
if it's so great why is it in wow aoc or war when someone brings up swg everyone talks about how great pre-cu was?
fact is the nge is dead and its time to pull the plug on the rest of the servers or give us our game back
Originally posted by Iheamylap They better not even think of shutting the game down anytime in the near future...my Nuna still has yet to yield a good pile of poop
LMAO, I don't even know what the heck that means but that's pretty funny.
i remember six months after swg came out i had nights where i would wait 40 minutes in a queue to get onto kauri with my friends.
i knew from the very start the first death blow to swg was putting jtls into the game lets face it jtls would bring in the action gaming whiners who couldn't hang in the ground game and supported the nge i knew the cu was a bad idea from the very start after all there was nothing wrong with swg. the game was fine outside a few bugs and it was getting more and more players.
now i just laugh seeing the fanbots and fanbois spam about how great the nge is
hey if it's so great then why are $OE shutting servers down?
if its so great why do I keep hearing "bring back pre-cu!" from the players?
if it's so great why is it in wow aoc or war when someone brings up swg everyone talks about how great pre-cu was?
fact is the nge is dead and its time to pull the plug on the rest of the servers or give us our game back[/quote]
We will remember those days well , My fellow Kaurian. Since then the minds at SOE could not handle my cornering of the spice trade on that server ( Its why spices were dismissed as ....DRUGS!!!... by SOE and removed in the NGE). The Problem will arise again , spices are mention frequently in " The Clone wars" ( I watch it with my age appropriate 10 year old). Will SOE go Pussy again , or will they prevent the mechanics that allow me my claim to fame and due to SOE , My infamy. Time will tell!
Theres a few differences between swg and EQ and EQ2.
1. The biggest difference being that soe owns the IP for the EQ series, while LA owns the Star Wars IP. In an odd coincidence, the only game soe has shut down, MxO, was also an IP they did not own.
2. SWG hasn't had an expansion since 2005. Thats 4 years. EQ2 (not sure about EQ) has had multiple expansions during that time. MxO...also has had no expansions.
3. Theres no competing EQ franchise mmo that will be launched by another company, which is the case with swg and Bioware's TOR. Anyone who thinks TOR won't take a significant number of whats left of swg's population is fooling themselves. If TOR is a decent game then the swg players will most likely stay. This isn't even taking into account the Free Realms like mmo that soe and LA are developing. Maybe this is the bone LA is throwing soe's way to compensate them TOR and the possible shut down of swg that will result? Very Possible.
Its really not a good idea to compare the soe owned IP of EQ and an IP they don't own or control.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I wish just for shits and giggles.. that SOE would load one server with Pre Cu data and watch the results over 2 months.
Theres no way they dont have copys or builds of Pre Cu. I understand that this request will never happen.. however I do think that it would be quite simple.
I think in the end and along the way, this has been a pride issue; they just wont accept that their ivy league time tested golden nuggets of an idea failed to satisfy their unapreciated audience.
A lot of you like to criticize SWG veterans; im convinced that those of you who do clearly never played the game. I dont know one person who wasnt hooked..
Years later we veterans still cant believe that they fixed something that wasnt broken. despite our protests.
Comments
I thought all the zombie comments were a joke! O_O
<sigh> SWG, what have they done to you?
I agree in the closing of Kauri , in my case its like destroying the scene of crime, in my case the mishandling of my accounts and thus my business with SOE.
Now if I press SOE on what happened and the real reason why my accounts were Premabanned they can claim that the location of this alleged infraction took place no longer exists. How convenient!
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hope dies last
guess now it's it about to happen.
ever since the NGE i hoped $OE would start a classic server to keep one of the most complex and dynamic mmos alive.
good-bye SWG
faster pussycat - kill kill kill
Matrix Online?
Looks like you missed the "all but one" part in the post you quoted
With the evercrack titles SOE doesnt have to split profits with an IP owner nor does it have to deal with an IP owner on content additions/changes.
I still cant believe people think SOE is shutting down. SWG is still making SOE and LA millions in subs and card sales. EQ2 isnt doing good like SWG but it still has players, EQ1 is the money maker for SOE. The way it works is Station Pass. SOE doesnt count on one game to make, they have multiple titles to attract players. Im sure they are working on a new set of games. I agree that most of what they have is looking dated and dead, its time for a new batch.
The way I think they are opperating at SOE today is keep a skeleton crew on the games, put most resources into development and hope the new games bring in people. Didnt you see the new announcement , they are hireing developers for a new flaggship project. My guess is its the next EQ, but Ive read it wont be called EQ, more than likely a fantasy game to compete with WOW.
I submit that SOE makes more from EQ2 than from SWG for the simple reason they do not have to share any of the profits. They have been workng on new MMOs concurrently with their current lineup for some time. Hell...look at all of the former SWG devs who are now working on some of those new projects...not to mention the ones who have flown the coop out of SOE so to speak after moving to said projects. Revolving door.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I think the impact of what you just posted went right over your head.
Think about it this way: Which soe games are growing?
SOE 2004: over a million subscribers
SOE 2009: 2-300,000 tops.
Still running, yes.
Closing down, no, but heading in that direction for sure.
Yes, let's ignore the majority of other MMO companies that have merged servers. Shall we take a look at...NCsoft?
I did not bring up other companies who closed servers, because it does not change the position that soe is in. Just like I didn't bring up other companies that are adding servers/subscribers for years on end, because that doesn't change the position that soe is in.
Trying to deflect attention away from soe to another company has no bearing on the state of affairs at soe. If another company is going bankrupt, that doesn't make soe more successful does it?
Soe may not be closing down, but it is undenyable that they are heading in that direction far more than they are heading in the direction of success.
SOE was once the undisputed leader in the industry. Now the only thing they really have a lead in is most mmos with closed servers. No one comes close to the number of declining games they do. Looking at several of the games and it is pretty obvious that they will take the title for most closed games within the near future.
I am going to name the biggest success stories for soe this decade:
1) the purchase of the everquest franchise. It has been their best producer over the years, but it is long past its prime.
2) SWG: fastest selling mmo ever [during that time period]. Second biggest mmo in north america. Also the single biggest example of what not to do in an mmo which chased away the overwhelming majority of players.
3) everquest 2: closed half of its servers within a year
4) free realms: 5 million accounts signed up. 1 medium population server and the rest so empty it makes a SWG server look like grand cenrtal station.
So far I see nothing from soe this decade that shows long term sustainability. I see a company with a flock of dieing products in a larger company that is looking to cut costs. That is just what I see though. Maybe you see something that makes their future look brighter?
I don't think soe is shutting down, but I think unless they have some success in the mmo field soon, sony corp might end their further investment into mmos. Maybe let them suck their current games dry until they finally close, but their mmo days may just be numbered.
If SWG made more money than EQ2, then SWG would have developers making paid expansions for the game.
If Everquest were the real money maker, then John Smedley would be able to pronounce the name of the lead developer of the game.
Station pass hurts soe just as much as it might help. Each station pass subscriber can be counted as a subscriber to multiple games. Each station pass subscriber that quits costs soe as much as multiple subscribers.
I really think you over value SWG in terms of its revenue value for soe/lucas arts. I doubt very much either company is making millionS from the game.
Matrix Online?
Looks like you missed the "all but one" part in the post you quoted
With the evercrack titles SOE doesnt have to split profits with an IP owner nor does it have to deal with an IP owner on content additions/changes.
I still cant believe people think SOE is shutting down. SWG is still making SOE and LA millions in subs and card sales. EQ2 isnt doing good like SWG but it still has players, EQ1 is the money maker for SOE. The way it works is Station Pass. SOE doesnt count on one game to make, they have multiple titles to attract players. Im sure they are working on a new set of games. I agree that most of what they have is looking dated and dead, its time for a new batch.
The way I think they are opperating at SOE today is keep a skeleton crew on the games, put most resources into development and hope the new games bring in people. Didnt you see the new announcement , they are hireing developers for a new flaggship project. My guess is its the next EQ, but Ive read it wont be called EQ, more than likely a fantasy game to compete with WOW.
swg is full of new and returning players. the servers are always at medium to heavy during peak times thanks to SOE's card game and badgerbanger's grouping tools. of course they are all spies and cloaked so you cant see them....and they put themselves on anonymous too...yeah....thats it.
I think the impact of what you just posted went right over your head.
Think about it this way: Which soe games are growing?
SOE 2004: over a million subscribers
SOE 2009: 2-300,000 tops.
Still running, yes.
Closing down, no, but heading in that direction for sure.
Yes, let's ignore the majority of other MMO companies that have merged servers. Shall we take a look at...NCsoft?
I did not bring up other companies who closed servers, because it does not change the position that soe is in. Just like I didn't bring up other companies that are adding servers/subscribers for years on end, because that doesn't change the position that soe is in.
Trying to deflect attention away from soe to another company has no bearing on the state of affairs at soe. If another company is going bankrupt, that doesn't make soe more successful does it?
Soe may not be closing down, but it is undenyable that they are heading in that direction far more than they are heading in the direction of success.
SOE was once the undisputed leader in the industry. Now the only thing they really have a lead in is most mmos with closed servers. No one comes close to the number of declining games they do. Looking at several of the games and it is pretty obvious that they will take the title for most closed games within the near future.
I am going to name the biggest success stories for soe this decade:
1) the purchase of the everquest franchise. It has been their best producer over the years, but it is long past its prime.
2) SWG: fastest selling mmo ever [during that time period]. Second biggest mmo in north america. Also the single biggest example of what not to do in an mmo which chased away the overwhelming majority of players.
3) everquest 2: closed half of its servers within a year
4) free realms: 5 million accounts signed up. 1 medium population server and the rest so empty it makes a SWG server look like grand cenrtal station.
So far I see nothing from soe this decade that shows long term sustainability. I see a company with a flock of dieing products in a larger company that is looking to cut costs. That is just what I see though. Maybe you see something that makes their future look brighter?
That's some nice spin
Going back to NCsoft, they've had two recent release games fail and close (Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa) and I believe there was another game that got cancelled before it was even released. In my view, that makes them less sucessful. They've also merged servers on some of their active games. I think you'll find ALL MMO companies except Blizzard (although a quick search shows even people playing WoW are calling for merges on some of their servers) have merged servers in their games at some point.
Rather then being a sign of failure, it's more part of the general activities carried out by an MMO developer.
I am talking about the situation directly relating to soe, not pointing at the failures of another company in an attempt to boost the image of soe. Look who is trying to spin the discussion.
Really, the failures of NCSoft do not make SOE a success. Just like your complete disregard for the success rate of NCSoft in comparison to SOE doesn't change the performance of soe one bit.. Stop deflecting. Judge soe by its own performance.
Seriously stop trying to make this a discussion about NCSoft.
Can you name 1 game from soe that is growing? Please show me a game that is going to replace the declining revenue that soe have undergone the last several years. If another NCSoft game fails that will not somehow make soe more money will it? Show where this success is coming from.
When the entire product line of a company is trending downward, especially at the rate that soe is, then yes it is heading towards failure unless something changes. All of the mmo products that soe has right now are long long past their prime and most would have been shut down long ago by any other company. I am more than certain soe has a timeline based on their numbers to roughly predict where each of their mmos becomes unprofitable.
That is why you are seeing layoffs, game closures, server closures, lead developers departing, release delays, hyper inflation of micro transaction money grabs through out all of their games and things of that nature. These are direct actions to cut costs and lengthen the timelime to failure.
A company that has their entire product line in decline is not a sustainable company. Something has to change or the innevitable will happen.
I will say it again, soe is not a success, just because some other company failed. That does not change the current state of the company. Soe has been unsuccessfully trying to repeat the success of the first game they purchased, but has not even come close for ten years. How much longer can things go the way they are currently going without some major changes?
One thing I would like to point out to you. Your definition of a successful company is one that loses 70% or more of its customers in a few short years. I really really want you to think about that for a moment if you want to continue this discussion.
Name one corporation that could tell its shareholders they have lost over 2/3 of their marketshare the last several years and have those shareholders call it a success. Knock yourself out.
The sad part is...he wasn't alone in his thinking. He was taking the MESS that SoE had created with FCTS and making it better for the few players/people left on the servers - including any new players that made the mistake of starting on one of the dead servers.
SoE botched this from the start...they didn't pick enough servers and they lied about their intentions (server closings). They should have immediately ceased new toon creation on the "dead" servers if closing them was their ultimate goal. Instead, they mislead the entire playerbase and allowed players, like Badger, to believe the servers would be there indefinitely...which lead to months of recreating what had been destroyed...the community.
IMO, HE took a shot to the nuts yesterday as this announcement affects him far more than most players.
I know Inat is correct in what he said too, that the zombie update WILL happen...but that just further exhibits SoE's stubborn nature. They truly do not give a flying **edit** what the players want...it's all about what THEY have decided. I'm very disappointed in Teesquared (the new Producer) for not having the balls to stop development of something this tremendously foolish. If he were half the leader he should be, he would have scrapped Dotanuki's plans for it and focused on something that would make SWG BETTER! Keeping his job, retaining customers, attracting players should be his focus...not following Dotanuki's foolish lead.
"Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him"
The sad part is...he wasn't alone in his thinking. He was taking the MESS that SoE had created with FCTS and making it better for the few players/people left on the servers - including any new players that made the mistake of starting on one of the dead servers.
SoE botched this from the start...they didn't pick enough servers and they lied about their intentions (server closings). They should have immediately ceased new toon creation on the "dead" servers if closing them was their ultimate goal. Instead, they mislead the entire playerbase and allowed players, like Badger, to believe the servers would be there indefinitely...which lead to months of recreating what had been destroyed...the community.
IMO, HE took a shot to the nuts yesterday as this announcement affects him far more than most players.
I know Inat is correct in what he said too, that the zombie update WILL happen...but that just further exhibits SoE's stubborn nature. They truly do not give a flying **edit** what the players want...it's all about what THEY have decided. I'm very disappointed in Teesquared (the new Producer) for not having the balls to stop development of something this tremendously foolish. If he were half the leader he should be, he would have scrapped Dotanuki's plans for it and focused on something that would make SWG BETTER! Keeping his job, retaining customers, attracting players should be his focus...not following Dotanuki's foolish lead.
"Who's more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him"
I believe what some here are forgeting that even after FCTS there are many servers whos players are on the GP boards asking for further FCTS from the transfer to servers. In the past year I've seen Bria, which at the time I transfered was the largest server, take a large fall in population, then others who took the paid transfer system to Starsider. The same way it all happened with Kauri in 2007.
As with the Chapter 6 Combat Downgrade, if they start development on something, what you see is what you get. They are not going to stop development of anything, once it's in the works if the playerbase likes it or not. C6CD had thousands of posts, many threads of discontent, and it still came, just as they said it would. Zombies, be your own developer, and GCW (what? we still don't know) will be exactly the same. I doubt Teesquared had the power to discontinue Dot's ideas and even further, I doubt he would of CHANGED anything even if he could, just because it was started and no sence waisting dev time.
Badger lives in SOE world. "We can CHANGE the game enough to save it". C6CD - GU- Whatever was "get back the vets at the cost of the NGE players". It really doesn't matter what the existing playerbase thinks, we will get more people than we had before after we make all these CHANGES. Even after CU, NGE, and C6CD, SOE Austin, and Badger, still believe that. Everytime this has been tried, it remains the same outcome. Less subs than there were before. Maybe they both have good intentions, but failure to learn from history dooms one to repeat it. Server shut-downs are only the fruit of their toils.
I think the impact of what you just posted went right over your head.
Think about it this way: Which soe games are growing?
SOE 2004: over a million subscribers
SOE 2009: 2-300,000 tops.
Still running, yes.
Closing down, no, but heading in that direction for sure.
Yes, let's ignore the majority of other MMO companies that have merged servers. Shall we take a look at...NCsoft?
I did not bring up other companies who closed servers, because it does not change the position that soe is in. Just like I didn't bring up other companies that are adding servers/subscribers for years on end, because that doesn't change the position that soe is in.
Trying to deflect attention away from soe to another company has no bearing on the state of affairs at soe. If another company is going bankrupt, that doesn't make soe more successful does it?
Soe may not be closing down, but it is undenyable that they are heading in that direction far more than they are heading in the direction of success.
SOE was once the undisputed leader in the industry. Now the only thing they really have a lead in is most mmos with closed servers. No one comes close to the number of declining games they do. Looking at several of the games and it is pretty obvious that they will take the title for most closed games within the near future.
I am going to name the biggest success stories for soe this decade:
1) the purchase of the everquest franchise. It has been their best producer over the years, but it is long past its prime.
2) SWG: fastest selling mmo ever [during that time period]. Second biggest mmo in north america. Also the single biggest example of what not to do in an mmo which chased away the overwhelming majority of players.
3) everquest 2: closed half of its servers within a year
4) free realms: 5 million accounts signed up. 1 medium population server and the rest so empty it makes a SWG server look like grand cenrtal station.
So far I see nothing from soe this decade that shows long term sustainability. I see a company with a flock of dieing products in a larger company that is looking to cut costs. That is just what I see though. Maybe you see something that makes their future look brighter?
That's some nice spin
Going back to NCsoft, they've had two recent release games fail and close (Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa) and I believe there was another game that got cancelled before it was even released. In my view, that makes them less sucessful. They've also merged servers on some of their active games. I think you'll find ALL MMO companies except Blizzard (although a quick search shows even people playing WoW are calling for merges on some of their servers) have merged servers in their games at some point.
Rather then being a sign of failure, it's more part of the general activities carried out by an MMO developer.
MY GOD THE SPIN i knew when i heard about the closing of half of the swg servers you soe supporters would go into uberspin mode but saying NCsoft is less successful than soe...
even with the closing of auto assault and tabula rasa you conveniently left out that lineage 1 and 2 are both million dollar games in asia. lineage 2 still is. and aion beats WOW in asia. NCsoft obviously knows what the market wants and provides that. NCsoft makes millions every year and soe? loosing subs and claiming success with a FREE GAME (free realms). and as far as blizzard merging servers that is acceptable considering the BILLIONS wow has made.
They better not even think of shutting the game down anytime in the near future...my Nuna still has yet to yield a good pile of poop
I think the impact of what you just posted went right over your head.
Think about it this way: Which soe games are growing?
SOE 2004: over a million subscribers
SOE 2009: 2-300,000 tops.
Still running, yes.
Closing down, no, but heading in that direction for sure.
Yes, let's ignore the majority of other MMO companies that have merged servers. Shall we take a look at...NCsoft?
I did not bring up other companies who closed servers, because it does not change the position that soe is in. Just like I didn't bring up other companies that are adding servers/subscribers for years on end, because that doesn't change the position that soe is in.
Trying to deflect attention away from soe to another company has no bearing on the state of affairs at soe. If another company is going bankrupt, that doesn't make soe more successful does it?
Soe may not be closing down, but it is undenyable that they are heading in that direction far more than they are heading in the direction of success.
SOE was once the undisputed leader in the industry. Now the only thing they really have a lead in is most mmos with closed servers. No one comes close to the number of declining games they do. Looking at several of the games and it is pretty obvious that they will take the title for most closed games within the near future.
I am going to name the biggest success stories for soe this decade:
1) the purchase of the everquest franchise. It has been their best producer over the years, but it is long past its prime.
2) SWG: fastest selling mmo ever [during that time period]. Second biggest mmo in north america. Also the single biggest example of what not to do in an mmo which chased away the overwhelming majority of players.
3) everquest 2: closed half of its servers within a year
4) free realms: 5 million accounts signed up. 1 medium population server and the rest so empty it makes a SWG server look like grand cenrtal station.
So far I see nothing from soe this decade that shows long term sustainability. I see a company with a flock of dieing products in a larger company that is looking to cut costs. That is just what I see though. Maybe you see something that makes their future look brighter?
That's some nice spin
Going back to NCsoft, they've had two recent release games fail and close (Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa) and I believe there was another game that got cancelled before it was even released. In my view, that makes them less sucessful. They've also merged servers on some of their active games. I think you'll find ALL MMO companies except Blizzard (although a quick search shows even people playing WoW are calling for merges on some of their servers) have merged servers in their games at some point.
Rather then being a sign of failure, it's more part of the general activities carried out by an MMO developer.
MY GOD THE SPIN i knew when i heard about the closing of half of the swg servers you soe supporters would go into uberspin mode but saying NCsoft is less successful than soe...
even with the closing of auto assault and tabula rasa you conveniently left out that lineage 1 and 2 are both million dollar games in asia. lineage 2 still is. and aion beats WOW in asia. NCsoft obviously knows what the market wants and provides that. NCsoft makes millions every year and soe? loosing subs and claiming success with a FREE GAME (free realms). and as far as blizzard merging servers that is acceptable considering the BILLIONS wow has made.
The spin is enough to make one dizzy...
That having been said, at some point Sony Corp is going to take a long HARD look at SOE. At that point, I suspect things will be dealt with in a most unpleasant fashion. But the idea that NCsoft has a clue about what the market *outside of Asia* wants flies in the face of years of evidence to the contrary. The jury is still out in regards to Aion in the west, but from early reports, they are making some of the same classic mistakes in that regard. It will be interesting to see what their subs are two months after launch. Given the cultural differences between Korea and the west, its no real surprise that they continue to have a difficult time making the transition. As for Smed, imagine him as Mr Morden in that conversation with Vir Cotto in B5 when he asked what Vir wanted...<Waves....Very evil grin>
Don't forget NCSoft is also represented very well by Guild Wars and City of Heroes. Both doing very well in the western market.
SOE failed every attempt they made to venture into the eastern market and are collapsing in the western market as well.
However, this is exactly what Obriak wants. People talking about SOE vs NCSoft as if that will somehow improve the situation that soe is in right now. A company with nearly 10 mmos that have all been on the decline for years. Most of which should have been sunset a long time ago.
I really can't think of a single success soe has had in the last 5 years.
Close them , Close them all down.
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I am talking about the situation directly relating to soe, not pointing at the failures of another company in an attempt to boost the image of soe. Look who is trying to spin the discussion.
Really, the failures of NCSoft do not make SOE a success. Just like your complete disregard for the success rate of NCSoft in comparison to SOE doesn't change the performance of soe one bit.. Stop deflecting. Judge soe by its own performance.
Seriously stop trying to make this a discussion about NCSoft.
Can you name 1 game from soe that is growing? Please show me a game that is going to replace the declining revenue that soe have undergone the last several years. If another NCSoft game fails that will not somehow make soe more money will it? Show where this success is coming from.
When the entire product line of a company is trending downward, especially at the rate that soe is, then yes it is heading towards failure unless something changes. All of the mmo products that soe has right now are long long past their prime and most would have been shut down long ago by any other company. I am more than certain soe has a timeline based on their numbers to roughly predict where each of their mmos becomes unprofitable.
That is why you are seeing layoffs, game closures, server closures, lead developers departing, release delays, hyper inflation of micro transaction money grabs through out all of their games and things of that nature. These are direct actions to cut costs and lengthen the timelime to failure.
A company that has their entire product line in decline is not a sustainable company. Something has to change or the innevitable will happen.
I will say it again, soe is not a success, just because some other company failed. That does not change the current state of the company. Soe has been unsuccessfully trying to repeat the success of the first game they purchased, but has not even come close for ten years. How much longer can things go the way they are currently going without some major changes?
One thing I would like to point out to you. Your definition of a successful company is one that loses 70% or more of its customers in a few short years. I really really want you to think about that for a moment if you want to continue this discussion.
Name one corporation that could tell its shareholders they have lost over 2/3 of their marketshare the last several years and have those shareholders call it a success. Knock yourself out.
No one here is qualified to say which of SOE's games are growing or shrinking. It's quite easy for you to quote all these numbers, but where exactly are you getting them from? SOE certainly isn't releasing them so it can't be from them, which leads me to believe you're simply guessing. To be quite honest, you're really in no position to provide any kind of accurate guess as to what the state of SOE or its games are given your heavy bias towards them.
Shrug it off as much you wish but my point still stands. Closing down and merging servers in the MMO industry is not abnormal, infact it's pretty common across all MMO companies. If this is what you're using to judge whether an MMO company is successful or not then I suggest you find a better measuring device.
I am talking about the situation directly relating to soe, not pointing at the failures of another company in an attempt to boost the image of soe. Look who is trying to spin the discussion.
Really, the failures of NCSoft do not make SOE a success. Just like your complete disregard for the success rate of NCSoft in comparison to SOE doesn't change the performance of soe one bit.. Stop deflecting. Judge soe by its own performance.
Seriously stop trying to make this a discussion about NCSoft.
Can you name 1 game from soe that is growing? Please show me a game that is going to replace the declining revenue that soe have undergone the last several years. If another NCSoft game fails that will not somehow make soe more money will it? Show where this success is coming from.
When the entire product line of a company is trending downward, especially at the rate that soe is, then yes it is heading towards failure unless something changes. All of the mmo products that soe has right now are long long past their prime and most would have been shut down long ago by any other company. I am more than certain soe has a timeline based on their numbers to roughly predict where each of their mmos becomes unprofitable.
That is why you are seeing layoffs, game closures, server closures, lead developers departing, release delays, hyper inflation of micro transaction money grabs through out all of their games and things of that nature. These are direct actions to cut costs and lengthen the timelime to failure.
A company that has their entire product line in decline is not a sustainable company. Something has to change or the innevitable will happen.
I will say it again, soe is not a success, just because some other company failed. That does not change the current state of the company. Soe has been unsuccessfully trying to repeat the success of the first game they purchased, but has not even come close for ten years. How much longer can things go the way they are currently going without some major changes?
One thing I would like to point out to you. Your definition of a successful company is one that loses 70% or more of its customers in a few short years. I really really want you to think about that for a moment if you want to continue this discussion.
Name one corporation that could tell its shareholders they have lost over 2/3 of their marketshare the last several years and have those shareholders call it a success. Knock yourself out.
No one here is qualified to say which of SOE's games are growing or shrinking. It's quite easy for you to quote all these numbers, but where exactly are you getting them from? SOE certainly isn't releasing them so it can't be from them, which leads me to believe you're simply guessing. To be quite honest, you're really in no position to provide any kind of accurate guess as to what the state of SOE or its games are given your heavy bias towards them.
Shrug it off as much you wish but my point still stands. Closing down and merging servers in the MMO industry is not abnormal, infact it's pretty common across all MMO companies. If this is what you're using to judge whether an MMO company is successful or not then I suggest you find a better measuring device.
i think all of us here are qualified to say how $OE is doing we all know that the nge has failed and now it has less players then ever eq 1 and 2 are dying off and no one wants to play those free realms is bombing plantside is going bye bye really by this time next year all $OE will have are card games that no one likes.
shutting down servers shows that the game is dying let me ask you something do you see eve shutting down servers? do you see wow shutting down servers? i don't.
i see $OE shutting down nge servers and by the end of the year shutting the nge down for good.
ve does not shut down servers for 2 reasons:
1) They did not originally plan for the amount of people they now had and upgraded their systems only after they found it was more popular than they thought.
2) Eve operates one open world, not numerous. Closing down one means they close it all down.
WoW has introduced new servers to cope with rising demand... similar to EvE but in a different way.
The proplem is not that the game is failing, it is that SOE projected a larger population than they got, this is a lesson many companies are now discovering (WAR, AoC, so forth) not because they have a bad game, but because they did not plan properly.
New games are now starting on smaller servers and less resources and then increasing their size after launch instead of before it... much safer and more economical. Both WoW and Eve expected less and as a result did not waste money at the start of their business... SOE should have done likewise.
This I can agree with. While SOE didn't open some of the servers until after the launch, it was more a knee-jerk reaction to open them up (and possibly following a pre-determined plan). There wasn't a need for those extra servers back then (I never sat in queues wating to get into Chilastra) and there certainly isn't a need for them today.
i remember six months after swg came out i had nights where i would wait 40 minutes in a queue to get onto kauri with my friends.
i knew from the very start the first death blow to swg was putting jtls into the game lets face it jtls would bring in the action gaming whiners who couldn't hang in the ground game and supported the nge i knew the cu was a bad idea from the very start after all there was nothing wrong with swg. the game was fine outside a few bugs and it was getting more and more players.
now i just laugh seeing the fanbots and fanbois spam about how great the nge is
hey if it's so great then why are $OE shutting servers down?
if its so great why do I keep hearing "bring back pre-cu!" from the players?
if it's so great why is it in wow aoc or war when someone brings up swg everyone talks about how great pre-cu was?
fact is the nge is dead and its time to pull the plug on the rest of the servers or give us our game back
[quote]Originally posted by stillkillin
i remember six months after swg came out i had nights where i would wait 40 minutes in a queue to get onto kauri with my friends.
i knew from the very start the first death blow to swg was putting jtls into the game lets face it jtls would bring in the action gaming whiners who couldn't hang in the ground game and supported the nge i knew the cu was a bad idea from the very start after all there was nothing wrong with swg. the game was fine outside a few bugs and it was getting more and more players.
now i just laugh seeing the fanbots and fanbois spam about how great the nge is
hey if it's so great then why are $OE shutting servers down?
if its so great why do I keep hearing "bring back pre-cu!" from the players?
if it's so great why is it in wow aoc or war when someone brings up swg everyone talks about how great pre-cu was?
fact is the nge is dead and its time to pull the plug on the rest of the servers or give us our game back[/quote]
We will remember those days well , My fellow Kaurian. Since then the minds at SOE could not handle my cornering of the spice trade on that server ( Its why spices were dismissed as ....DRUGS!!!... by SOE and removed in the NGE). The Problem will arise again , spices are mention frequently in " The Clone wars" ( I watch it with my age appropriate 10 year old). Will SOE go Pussy again , or will they prevent the mechanics that allow me my claim to fame and due to SOE , My infamy. Time will tell!
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Theres a few differences between swg and EQ and EQ2.
1. The biggest difference being that soe owns the IP for the EQ series, while LA owns the Star Wars IP. In an odd coincidence, the only game soe has shut down, MxO, was also an IP they did not own.
2. SWG hasn't had an expansion since 2005. Thats 4 years. EQ2 (not sure about EQ) has had multiple expansions during that time. MxO...also has had no expansions.
3. Theres no competing EQ franchise mmo that will be launched by another company, which is the case with swg and Bioware's TOR. Anyone who thinks TOR won't take a significant number of whats left of swg's population is fooling themselves. If TOR is a decent game then the swg players will most likely stay. This isn't even taking into account the Free Realms like mmo that soe and LA are developing. Maybe this is the bone LA is throwing soe's way to compensate them TOR and the possible shut down of swg that will result? Very Possible.
Its really not a good idea to compare the soe owned IP of EQ and an IP they don't own or control.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I wish just for shits and giggles.. that SOE would load one server with Pre Cu data and watch the results over 2 months.
Theres no way they dont have copys or builds of Pre Cu. I understand that this request will never happen.. however I do think that it would be quite simple.
I think in the end and along the way, this has been a pride issue; they just wont accept that their ivy league time tested golden nuggets of an idea failed to satisfy their unapreciated audience.
A lot of you like to criticize SWG veterans; im convinced that those of you who do clearly never played the game. I dont know one person who wasnt hooked..
Years later we veterans still cant believe that they fixed something that wasnt broken. despite our protests.
G.E.Schaefer
Played: EQ1. EQ2. FFXI. SWG. Aion. WAR. LOTRO. TabulaRasa. Hellgate London. Diablo 1. Diablo II. Diablo 3. STO. WOW. Vanguard. Guild Wars. Rift. Terra. The Secret World. EVE. Guild Wars 2. Firefall. Neverwinter.