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Eve has some of the crappiest PvP in a game.

HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,578Member Uncommon

10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

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Comments

  • qazymanqazyman round rock, TXPosts: 1,785Member

    Well EVE is an empire building game that has allot of open PVP areas. The PVP that evolves from people building their empires is any thing but lame. If you’re just flying around looking for PVP with no other interest you first have to find the right environment. It's certainly possible but it's not the way the game is designed.

    Also if your trying to say people aren’t willing to fight when out gunned or risk losing a ship for a little PVP, I would say your just plain wrong. People do it all the time, especially after they have accumulated a little wealth and don’t mind losing a ship or two.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,978Member Uncommon

    EVE isn't about fair fights, its about winning and losing.

    edited: I was tired when I first replied and was being snarky for no good reason.  Removed the uncalled for dig at the OP.

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • dhayes68dhayes68 New York, NYPosts: 1,393Member
    Originally posted by Horusra


    10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

     

    If fair is what you're looking for, then EvE is not for you. EvE is for those who understand whats going on in the game, and take the steps to insure its not fair in their favor. More to the point, EvE is not about pointless pvp. There are stakes, consequences and several storylines possibly at play when pvp takes place.

    What you're looking for is actually a lot shallower than the pvp EvE offers.

  • tboxtbox Old Town, MEPosts: 372Member
    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Horusra


    10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

     

    If fair is what you're looking for, then EvE is not for you. EvE is for those who understand whats going on in the game, and take the steps to insure its not fair in their favor. More to the point, EvE is not about pointless pvp. There are stakes, consequences and several storylines possibly at play when pvp takes place.

    What you're looking for is actually a lot shallower than the pvp EvE offers.

     

       

    Hold on a sec about "Eve is not about pointless pvp". "Pointless" is very subjective.  For example simply ganking or killing enemies only when there is a 95% chance of victory is "pointless" form my stand point.  You most likely  feel that there is no point of killing anyone if you can't gain from their death or ship destruction. I say that it is pointless killing when there is no challenge to the battle regardless of the material gains.   

    In my view Eve has pointless pvp because there is hardly a pvp fight in which neither side have a chance of winning under 85-95%.

     

    I used to think pvp like Eve would be cool. The problem is that the gains from realistic and gankesq pvp is that you trade any satisfactory in the competition between you and the opponent and just live for what they will have on them.   Personally nothing another player drops is worth not being challenged by competition gives once successful.  Challenge through competition be it group play or solo is what I find to be the point in MMO pvp.   To some degree I like looting and objective taking but when it becomes too much a focus like in Eve and Darkfall I feel like the only reason I pvp is just to get some shitty digital object that means nothing. 

     

     

     

  • dhayes68dhayes68 New York, NYPosts: 1,393Member
    Originally posted by tbox

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Horusra


    10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

     

    If fair is what you're looking for, then EvE is not for you. EvE is for those who understand whats going on in the game, and take the steps to insure its not fair in their favor. More to the point, EvE is not about pointless pvp. There are stakes, consequences and several storylines possibly at play when pvp takes place.

    What you're looking for is actually a lot shallower than the pvp EvE offers.

     

       

    Hold on a sec about "Eve is not about pointless pvp". "Pointless" is very subjective.  For example simply ganking or killing enemies only when there is a 95% chance of victory is "pointless" form my stand point.  You most likely  feel that there is no point of killing anyone if you can't gain from their death or ship destruction. I say that it is pointless killing when there is no challenge to the battle regardless of the material gains.   

    In my view Eve has pointless pvp because there is hardly a pvp fight in which neither side have a chance of winning under 85-95%.

     

    I used to think pvp like Eve would be cool. The problem is that the gains from realistic and gankesq pvp is that you trade any satisfactory in the competition between you and the opponent and just live for what they will have on them.   Personally nothing another player drops is worth not being challenged by competition gives once successful.  Challenge through competition be it group play or solo is what I find to be the point in MMO pvp.   To some degree I like looting and objective taking but when it becomes too much a focus like in Eve and Darkfall I feel like the only reason I pvp is just to get some shitty digital object that means nothing.  

     

    Granted, pointless ganking does take place, as in any mmo with open world pvp, but what I was referring to is that EvE doesn't provide for pvp just for the sake of pvp to see who is better at pvp. (unless players agree to that before they fight.) Generally speaking at least one of the combatants has some stake in the outcome of pvp, which is why I don't refer to it as pointless. PvP takes place in the context of the world in which the game is played in. That is satisfying for some, not for others, but I wouldn't label it as a flaw of the game.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    The fights in EvE are often one-sided because they're not pointless. People who care about winning will do everything they are able to maximise their chances. The chances of two sides in a fight having equal capabilities are low. This is so obvious as to be pretty much a tautology. You only get "fair fights" when at least one side doesn't really care about winning. In essence, what you're asking for is Arena combat.

     Luckily, EvE provides even this facility:

    Log in to SiSi.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • qazymanqazyman round rock, TXPosts: 1,785Member
    Originally posted by tbox

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Horusra


    10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

     

    If fair is what you're looking for, then EvE is not for you. EvE is for those who understand whats going on in the game, and take the steps to insure its not fair in their favor. More to the point, EvE is not about pointless pvp. There are stakes, consequences and several storylines possibly at play when pvp takes place.

    What you're looking for is actually a lot shallower than the pvp EvE offers.

     

      Challenge through competition be it group play or solo is what I find to be the point in MMO pvp.    

     

     



     

    This is exactly what EVE does. Is it the games fault if players don't figure it out and play the game the way it's designed?

  • NicoliNicoli Harrisburg, PAPosts: 1,312Member
    Originally posted by tbox 
       

    Hold on a sec about "Eve is not about pointless pvp". "Pointless" is very subjective.  For example simply ganking or killing enemies only when there is a 95% chance of victory is "pointless" form my stand point.  You most likely  feel that there is no point of killing anyone if you can't gain from their death or ship destruction. I say that it is pointless killing when there is no challenge to the battle regardless of the material gains.   

    In my view Eve has pointless pvp because there is hardly a pvp fight in which neither side have a chance of winning under 85-95%.

     

     

    Those Fights happen a lot more often then you give credit for. Problem is those fight recieve very little attention because of the participants involved. I don't go running to the forums every time I have a fair fight or close fight to start a rant because I maybe lost a ship in the mess. Those that do lose thier ship to a gank have a much higher chance to talk or complaign about it on a public forum. To top it off it is usually the newer players that are the ones getting ganked the most which acentuates the crys of EVE being a newbie gankfest.

    And any 0.0 kill in hostile territory whether its 15 v 1 or 2 v 2 is not pointless, its is the nessicary part of war. Wars where most of the ships are lost are not some Honor duel where your trying to puff out your chest and show off your pvp rating. Your there to inflict damage on your enemy be it the be it the desire to cause the destruction of an entity or to fend off someone trying to take your assets.

    Of course to use a line from "The Dark Knight," Some people just want to watch the world burn. And with those people in eve you have 2 choices: burn to death, or Get your crew together and fight back, either way your pick.

  • MokweeMokwee holly hill, FLPosts: 286Member
    Originally posted by Horusra


    10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

     

    Can i haz yer stuffs?

  • kattehuskattehus Posts: 375Member
    Originally posted by tbox

       

    Hold on a sec about "Eve is not about pointless pvp". "Pointless" is very subjective.  For example simply ganking or killing enemies only when there is a 95% chance of victory is "pointless" form my stand point.  You most likely  feel that there is no point of killing anyone if you can't gain from their death or ship destruction. I say that it is pointless killing when there is no challenge to the battle regardless of the material gains.   

    In my view Eve has pointless pvp because there is hardly a pvp fight in which neither side have a chance of winning under 85-95%.

     

    As said before, a lot of these fights happen. I regularily hear about 10 to 20 fights, where the 10 guys win. Not because their ships were bigger or their gear were better, but because they, themselves, were better.

    In 0.0 this happens more than you'd think, even though you usually hear 0.0 being a blobfest.

    Also, pirating is all about finding the right opponent. And, again, I often hear about people who win against BCs and below, while they're flying frigates.


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  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    But the OP is right. Eve is about Gank and zerg. For this, I have little respect for Eve's PvP. I wouldn't even call it PvP - It's a jungle. Only improvement in sight is the alliance tournament thingy. Which seems nice, i think. Atleast they try. To say that Eve would beat "shallower" (haha) games like Guild Wars or WAR in regards of exciting PvP is clear fanboi-talk and should be dismissed as such -> utter nonsense.

    Fact is, no matter what you have at stake, PvP is at its best when the opposing sides are equal or nearly equal and they both stay and fight.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • PatchDayPatchDay nonya, CAPosts: 1,641Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid


    But the OP is right. Eve is about Gank and zerg. For this, I have little respect for Eve's PvP. I wouldn't even call it PvP - It's a jungle. Only improvement in sight is the alliance tournament thingy. Which seems nice, i think. Atleast they try. To say that Eve would beat "shallower" (haha) games like Guild Wars or WAR in regards of exciting PvP is clear fanboi-talk and should be dismissed as such -> utter nonsense.
    Fact is, no matter what you have at stake, PvP is at its best when the opposing sides are equal or nearly equal and they both stay and fight.

     

    You have no idea how wars are fought then. What you refer to is a 'sports' game where both sides have equal numbers. Or something like Boxing, Basketball, UFC, blah blah. All 'fair'

    WAR--- there is no 'fair'. You bring superior force. If you bring less numbers then you hit-and-run. Kill what u can and blaze

     

  • PatchDayPatchDay nonya, CAPosts: 1,641Member
    Originally posted by tbox

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Horusra


    10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

     

    If fair is what you're looking for, then EvE is not for you. EvE is for those who understand whats going on in the game, and take the steps to insure its not fair in their favor. More to the point, EvE is not about pointless pvp. There are stakes, consequences and several storylines possibly at play when pvp takes place.

    What you're looking for is actually a lot shallower than the pvp EvE offers.

     

       

    Hold on a sec about "Eve is not about pointless pvp". "Pointless" is very subjective.  For example simply ganking or killing enemies only when there is a 95% chance of victory is "pointless" form my stand point.  You most likely  feel that there is no point of killing anyone if you can't gain from their death or ship destruction. I say that it is pointless killing when there is no challenge to the battle regardless of the material gains.   

    In my view Eve has pointless pvp because there is hardly a pvp fight in which neither side have a chance of winning under 85-95%.

     

    I used to think pvp like Eve would be cool. The problem is that the gains from realistic and gankesq pvp is that you trade any satisfactory in the competition between you and the opponent and just live for what they will have on them.   Personally nothing another player drops is worth not being challenged by competition gives once successful.  Challenge through competition be it group play or solo is what I find to be the point in MMO pvp.   To some degree I like looting and objective taking but when it becomes too much a focus like in Eve and Darkfall I feel like the only reason I pvp is just to get some shitty digital object that means nothing. 

     

     

     

     

    ugh what are you talking bout? When I go into enemy terriority with my comrades and we killa  helpless Orca I take pleasure in knowing I've helped deal my enemy a terrible blow. So what if the Orca pilot cant defend himself? Perhaps in his holds he has precious rocks in which his friends can build ships and such for our enemies.

    So hulks, orca, and haulers I special pleasure in killing. Because they can do more potential harm to me than any Vagabond can. A vaga I can handle. But minerals going towards the construction of capital ships that just cannot be allowed to get to enemy hands free of risk

  • EnkinduEnkindu Vaurent, VAPosts: 1,098Member

    The pvp in eve is great because it matters.

    Things like "arena combat" are nothing more than sparring matches for bragging rights.  In "play fights" like that people strive for evenly matched opponents to test their skill.

     

    In eve you are fighting for your very LIFE in the game.  As in real life, if you find yourself in a "fair fight" then someone really screwed up when they were planning the battle.  I don't recall the exact numbers, but I know military commanders prefer to enter battle with something like 10:1 advantage.  The point is to win with as few losses as possible.  To utterly destroy your foe.

    Eve is about long term goals... a big loss might represent months or even years worth of work and planning.  So you better believe intelligence gathering and tactics matter a hell of a lot.

    To be quite honest, since I've played eve I've never been able to see the point in PvP that doesn't have consequences or require the same level of situational awareness.  From my point of view eve doesn't just have the BEST PvP in any game.. it has the ONLY PvP in any game. 

    We are all entitled to our opinions, and it is probably a good thing that we don't all enjoy the same things.

     

    deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)

  • comerbcomerb Seattle, WAPosts: 941Member
    Originally posted by Horusra


    10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

     

    I don't think you quite understand what EVE is about.

  • PatchDayPatchDay nonya, CAPosts: 1,641Member
    Originally posted by comerb

    Originally posted by Horusra


    10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

     

    I think think you quite understand what EVE is about.

     

    Nice troll, I see what you did there

    Short and brief post that lacked content so you can mask how little you know about EVE in general.

     

  • sdeleon515sdeleon515 Chicago, ILPosts: 125Member
    Originally posted by Horusra


    10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

     

    To OP:

    Are you seriously that mentally retarded or simply bitter being on the losing side far too often. The basic principle of ALL PvP system when it comes to winning is emphasizing your advantages over you opponents disadvantages your moron! PvP is inherently unfair in nature and even if you want to be so stupidly idealistic and say "PvP is supposed to be fair and equal" then that would also require that individuals would be judged beyond game dynamics in areas such as reaction time, judgement, overall game experience and familiarity and we can even throw in game equipment because if you ever played any mmorpg with a crappy PC and connection, expect lag to be your biggest foe.

    There is simply no fairness in PvP and for anyone who claims there should be try a FPS like Halo or Resistance 2 for a more realistic example. Both sides can have equal numbers and sizes and nearly identical weapons but that doesn't always result in nearly identical match results; in fact identical results are rarer than one side simply wreaking carnage on the other.

    So if you want to spew out the "pvp needs to be fair" then its not really PvP is it and any attempt to really make it fair even in game context can't account for the dynamics beyond the game that involve the player and their tools and no game or developer can really address that now can they.

  • Death1942Death1942 CanberraPosts: 2,587Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran


    EVE isn't about fair fights, its about winning and losing.
    We can see what side you were on.
     
     

    doing your avatar justice

     

    CATFIGHT IS ON!!!!

     

     

    on a serious note even when i was getting ganked the fights were still interesting and fun.

    MMO wish list:

    -Changeable worlds
    -Solid non level based game
    -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads

  • PatchDayPatchDay nonya, CAPosts: 1,641Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid


     
    Playing: EvE

    Played: GW, Vanguard, WAR, PotBS, AoC, Atlantica Online

    Tried: Auto Assault, CoV, FoM, Planetside, DDO, Lineage 2, Anarchy Online, Tabula Rasa

    Liked: GW, DDO, AoC
     

     

    Hm, dont you think this is a little ironic? You proclaim that WAR and GW are so awesome yet you left them behind to play EVE? Don't worry I'm pretty sure EVE Online outgrosses both of those anyway. I'm sure some hater will go dig up some charts or something so gonna go pop some popcorn and check thread tomorrows

  • comerbcomerb Seattle, WAPosts: 941Member
     

    Nice troll, I see what you did there
    Short and brief post that lacked content so you can mask how little you know about EVE in general.
     

     

    It means everything about Eve is about getting that competitive edge.  

    It's the reason people undercut prices.

    Its the reason people use tech 2/3 ships against an enemy thats using tech 1.

    Its the reason corporations plant spys in other corporations.

    It's the reason you bring 10 friends to a fight when there are only 5 enemies.

    Eve is all about bringing a gun to a knife fight. 

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 839Member Uncommon

    Case is that you can easily get a fair fight in eve. Most PvP people will happily stay for a fair fight. The OP either is solo hunting or hunting in large roams. Non of those will get you a fair fight. 10-30 people roams will most days give you at least one semi equal fight per trip. Just choose your hunting grounds with care and avoid the blobs.

  • singsofdeathsingsofdeath BruehlPosts: 1,812Member

     All is fair in love, war and EVE. 

     

    Nuff said.

  • Yoottos'HorgYoottos'Horg Colorado Springs, VAPosts: 287Member
    Originally posted by comerb

     

    Nice troll, I see what you did there
    Short and brief post that lacked content so you can mask how little you know about EVE in general.
     

     

    It means everything about Eve is about getting that competitive edge.  

    It's the reason people undercut prices.

    Its the reason people use tech 2/3 ships against an enemy thats using tech 1.

    Its the reason corporations plant spys in other corporations.

    It's the reason you bring 10 friends to a fight when there are only 5 enemies.

    Eve is all about bringing a gun to a knife fight. 



     

    I think the highlighted text pretty much sums up the entire thread.

     Personally I didn't like EvE very much. I did the trial and managed to get my Minmatar Frigate in a day, ran some NPC missions and got bored. I uninstalled the client on the fourth day and didn't give it a second thought...until recently. I keep finding myself coming back to these boards, to the official web-site and to the EvE Wiki again and again. Why? Because of that red highlighted sentence above. Before I played the game like I had every other MMO. Run a quest, turn in quest, get reward, repeat 30 more times, buy some upgrades, repeat some more.

    I have a very baseline knowledge of the game right now and I think I'm going to keep it that way. Why? Well when I exit a gate with guns ablazing, after I re-sub of course, I don't want to truly know what I lose when I get ganked by 10 people. I just want to learn from the experience, buy another Frig, some ammo and a few guns and repeat the process. Eventually I'll learn what does and doesn't work and when I finally have a working knowledge of the game, I'll worry about the value of my items because then I'll better know how to protect it. I'll be the guy with the gun and someone else will have the knife.

    Sort of off topic but...meh.

    image

    If you got nothing else out of this thread at least you got to see attractive women in bikinis.

  • EanokEanok WassenaarPosts: 134Member

     







    Originally posted by Horusra

    EvE has some of the crappiest PvP in a game. ... Eve is a game of whimps. ...  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  ... Kind of lame.

      



     

    I don't think I have been involved in many "fair" fights in EvE.

    As a noob I often got ganked by pirates with better ships and fighting in groups (I was alone). These "unfair" fights taught me that low security systems weren't secure, it also taught me to avoid flying AFK, and that when moving expensive cargo I should use scouts and/or a scort. So I learnt.

    Later I joined a corp. I learnt to fly in a group when venturing into low security space. Sometimes we fell into traps and were annihilated, sometimes we were the ones blowing up other ships. So we learnt to fly and fight as a coordinated group. We still lost most than we won, but it was so rewarding when we did manage to score a kill.

    Then I moved to no security space. We ventured into enemy space, using cloacked ships and scouts, looking for targets of opportunity, using suicide ships to prevent our victims from flying away while the rest of the squad came to finish off our victim. Sometimes our victim destroyed the ship holding it and escaped, sometimes the victim's friends came to his aid and our squad was decimated, sometimes we won. But whatever the results we became better at fighting, and we enjoyed it.

    This is EvE. Most of the battles are unfair, so what.

    We win some, we lose some. No-one cares for a fair fight, in fact we all try to fight "unfair" fights, with us being the ones having the best chances to win. The main purpose of a commander, be it in EvE or in RL, is to maneuver to get as big an advantage over your enemy as possible before striking, and if overpowered by a superior enemy, to minimize loses to fight another day.

    EvE is not designed to promote "fair" fights. There is no arena or circus to set battles between even-handed forces (ok, there is the annual Alliance Tournament but that's it). There is no point in whining. If you don't like this type of PvP look for a different game, but don't blame the game mechanics because it is not what you wish it were. Many like it the way it is. What you call "crappy" is what many look for in a PvP game.

    So stop ranting like a disappointed teenager and instead stick to a game more to your liking.

    EvE, as many have said before, is not for everyone.

    Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
    Playing: :(
    Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW

  • cosycosy ColentinaPosts: 3,304Member
    Originally posted by Horusra


    10% stand up fights.....90% all gank.  Eve is a game of whimps.  Only time I ever get to "pvp" is when I am either out numbered or ganking someone else.  No one ever stays for a fight when the number are equal or fair.  Kind of lame.

     

    i heard u like boxing make a boxing game online for fair fights or some stuff like that you know

    eve is not made to be fair QQ more

    BestSigEver :P
    image

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