So I've been playing the EvE trial testing it out, so far I liked it, but I have not gotten the chance to pvp yet.
One thing that worries me is PvP doesnt seem very skill based.
I mean, you basically fly around and hope your guns hit for max damage and don't miss while you hope your opponent misses, at least that's how PvE feels.
So basically if you have a better ship or better weapons, you = winner.
Not that this is necessarily a game ruining thing, I'm just curious of this is the way pvp works.
So basically if you have a better ship or better weapons, you = winner.
Short answer: No.
Long answer: NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
EVE has a heavy rock/paper/scissors setup, each ship can be fit to be any of the three or a combination of them. PvP starts before you undock and doesnt end when you kill something. EVE is PvP. The trick to winning a fight is not fitting the biggest ship you have with the biggest guns you can, it is knowing your ship and what it can do and then flying to your strengths and exploiting the weakness of your enemy.
For example, an arbitrator has bonuses to tracking disruptors, an ewar module that debuffs an enemies gun range or tracking speed, making them far less likely to hit you.
A megathron on the other hand is 10 times more expensive, 2 shipclasses bigger and has a monsterous tank and damage output. The arbitrator should win this fight if it can get "under the guns" of the megathron. The megathron might be able to hit the arbitrator if it has a web, or if it can bounce the arbitrator off a gate, or pull an orbit break manouver. It all depends on the players and their tactical awareness, or if theres backup waiting.
So I've been playing the EvE trial testing it out, so far I liked it, but I have not gotten the chance to pvp yet.
One thing that worries me is PvP doesnt seem very skill based.
I mean, you basically fly around and hope your guns hit for max damage and don't miss while you hope your opponent misses, at least that's how PvE feels.
So basically if you have a better ship or better weapons, you = winner.
Not that this is necessarily a game ruining thing, I'm just curious of this is the way pvp works.
Not at all. Read about gun tracking, missile damage formulas, optimal ranges, speed tanking, electronic warfare, logistics, overheating, warp scrambling, propulsion webs, etc etc...
Eve is as skill based as any game out there; not in the twitch sense, but in the game knowledge and quick thinking sense.
I'm living in a wormhole atm with my corp and we've had some intense pvp matches in the last couple days. It's the only place were I've experience non blob fleets b/c of the limitations of the wormhole. Probably a lot to venture on, but the pvp seems balanced.
I'm living in a wormhole atm with my corp and we've had some intense pvp matches in the last couple days. It's the only place were I've experience non blob fleets b/c of the limitations of the wormhole. Probably a lot to venture on, but the pvp seems balanced.
And you stated the reason the fights are "fair"/"balanced".
In 0.0, this is more unlikely to happen, because the offending part has more to fight for, so they'll bring what they can to be sure to win. You can't do this in WH's.
I stand by my word, though. Pvp is fairly balanced in 0.0.
|< I 1 1 I |\| 6 _ Z 0 |\/| 8 I 3 5 _ 5 I |\| C 3 _ 1 9 9 0
EVE is not about fair fights. You got to think like a militant corporation you always want the battle in your favor and if that means having 10 guys on your lone ship well hell the only cost they have to pay is ammo and the cleaning from your corpse hitting the haul.
and yeah played eve for awhile not my thing my brother plays it religiously and i've seen him in some pretty epic battles
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein
Of course, it's perfectly possible to fit that Megathron so that it will easily kill an Arbitrator... but only at the cost of making the Mega less effective vs other battleships.
Essentially, every possible ship+fitting combo has at least one glaring weakness, usually several. Understanding and compensating for those holes in capability is one of the things that seperates good players from bad, irrespective of character skills.
Since I started playing EVE I can tell you two things that no one can dispute.
1) 98% of the players are out to get you.
2) There is NO safe place in EVE space.
EVE can demoralize you, it can make you feel like an absolute idiot. Regardless of how long you have played the game you will find or hear about something you didn't even know was possible actually happening. I Beta tested this game and it seemed confusing then, now it is greater in scope and even more confusing. The only way to learn how to live in New Eden is to read the forums, read the Wiki and never ever put all your Isk (in game money) in one pot. Because someone is going to blow your pot into little bits and you will need a new one. I firmly believe that this game gives it's players the opportunity to bring out the worst potential in them. The dirty scams, the lying corporation and the pirates...oh the pirates. So basically, it is more lifelike than some are comfortable with.
The flip side to that is that, just like in real life, you can turn the tables on the offenders. The same game mechanics that allow them to cheat you are the same ones that allow you to gain a little revenge. In EVE it isn't the strongest that survive it is the most creative and the most cunning. So let your inner dark side out and enjoy the game or save yourself from the heart ache and look for a different MMO.
I would add, however, that you don't NEED to "turn to the dark side" to thrive in eve. Being a "nice guy" in eve does frequently put you at a tactical disadvantage. I spend the vast majority of my time in hostile 0.0, but even after 5 years I still don't fire on neutrals and never have (and never will) pirate or scam. I get called a "carebear" for these policies but don't really give a shit because I go where I want to and do what I want to in the game.
Eve is unique in that it really does allow you to make a moral choice when you play... not by joining some "good" or "bad" NPC faction, but by your actions. If you want to be a real bastard in eve you have tremendous latitude. A solid percentage wouldn't think twice about killing every ship they see or screwing someone out of a billion ISK by intentionally misplacing a decimal point in a contract price. People get rich and powerful doing both....
For me the joy of competing with human opponents would be completely lost if CCP didn't allow the rotten side of human nature to express itself. My game is all about NOT taking that road and winning anyway.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
I am an eve and wow fan and I definitely agree that pvp in both games really have nothing to do with each other. The only thing that I think eve is lacking is large changes in tactics depending on your opponent. Not that you don’t adjust your strategy somewhat based on what is happening but it’s not like the differences when attacking different class combos in other mmos. Personally this makes pvp kind of stale after a while. Really if you have the right group pvp can get as mind numbing as mining in a frigate.
One thing I would like to point out though even in wow pvp is rarely evenly matched its just less aggravating to die repeatedly when it only costs you maybe 5 min of grinding instead of a few hours.
Originally posted by Enkindu Good post csf and quite accurate. I would add, however, that you don't NEED to "turn to the dark side" to thrive in eve. Being a "nice guy" in eve does frequently put you at a tactical disadvantage. I spend the vast majority of my time in hostile 0.0, but even after 5 years I still don't fire on neutrals and never have (and never will) pirate or scam. I get called a "carebear" for these policies but don't really give a shit because I go where I want to and do what I want to in the game.
Eve is unique in that it really does allow you to make a moral choice when you play... not by joining some "good" or "bad" NPC faction, but by your actions. If you want to be a real bastard in eve you have tremendous latitude. A solid percentage wouldn't think twice about killing every ship they see or screwing someone out of a billion ISK by intentionally misplacing a decimal point in a contract price. People get rich and powerful doing both.... For me the joy of competing with human opponents would be completely lost if CCP didn't allow the rotten side of human nature to express itself. My game is all about NOT taking that road and winning anyway.
That is an excellent point. Sometimes it is hard not to join into the 'mob mentality' when it comes to playing the game the way you want to rather than how people expect you to. Well said Enkindu.
Comments
So I've been playing the EvE trial testing it out, so far I liked it, but I have not gotten the chance to pvp yet.
One thing that worries me is PvP doesnt seem very skill based.
I mean, you basically fly around and hope your guns hit for max damage and don't miss while you hope your opponent misses, at least that's how PvE feels.
So basically if you have a better ship or better weapons, you = winner.
Not that this is necessarily a game ruining thing, I'm just curious of this is the way pvp works.
Short answer: No.
Long answer: NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
EVE has a heavy rock/paper/scissors setup, each ship can be fit to be any of the three or a combination of them. PvP starts before you undock and doesnt end when you kill something. EVE is PvP. The trick to winning a fight is not fitting the biggest ship you have with the biggest guns you can, it is knowing your ship and what it can do and then flying to your strengths and exploiting the weakness of your enemy.
For example, an arbitrator has bonuses to tracking disruptors, an ewar module that debuffs an enemies gun range or tracking speed, making them far less likely to hit you.
A megathron on the other hand is 10 times more expensive, 2 shipclasses bigger and has a monsterous tank and damage output. The arbitrator should win this fight if it can get "under the guns" of the megathron. The megathron might be able to hit the arbitrator if it has a web, or if it can bounce the arbitrator off a gate, or pull an orbit break manouver. It all depends on the players and their tactical awareness, or if theres backup waiting.
I see, thanks for the reply.
Hope did not ever killed a ship in EVE
Not at all. Read about gun tracking, missile damage formulas, optimal ranges, speed tanking, electronic warfare, logistics, overheating, warp scrambling, propulsion webs, etc etc...
Eve is as skill based as any game out there; not in the twitch sense, but in the game knowledge and quick thinking sense.
I'm living in a wormhole atm with my corp and we've had some intense pvp matches in the last couple days. It's the only place were I've experience non blob fleets b/c of the limitations of the wormhole. Probably a lot to venture on, but the pvp seems balanced.
And you stated the reason the fights are "fair"/"balanced".
In 0.0, this is more unlikely to happen, because the offending part has more to fight for, so they'll bring what they can to be sure to win. You can't do this in WH's.
I stand by my word, though. Pvp is fairly balanced in 0.0.
Follow my tweet (:
EVE is not about fair fights. You got to think like a militant corporation you always want the battle in your favor and if that means having 10 guys on your lone ship well hell the only cost they have to pay is ammo and the cleaning from your corpse hitting the haul.
and yeah played eve for awhile not my thing my brother plays it religiously and i've seen him in some pretty epic battles
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein
Of course, it's perfectly possible to fit that Megathron so that it will easily kill an Arbitrator... but only at the cost of making the Mega less effective vs other battleships.
Essentially, every possible ship+fitting combo has at least one glaring weakness, usually several. Understanding and compensating for those holes in capability is one of the things that seperates good players from bad, irrespective of character skills.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Since I started playing EVE I can tell you two things that no one can dispute.
1) 98% of the players are out to get you.
2) There is NO safe place in EVE space.
EVE can demoralize you, it can make you feel like an absolute idiot. Regardless of how long you have played the game you will find or hear about something you didn't even know was possible actually happening. I Beta tested this game and it seemed confusing then, now it is greater in scope and even more confusing. The only way to learn how to live in New Eden is to read the forums, read the Wiki and never ever put all your Isk (in game money) in one pot. Because someone is going to blow your pot into little bits and you will need a new one. I firmly believe that this game gives it's players the opportunity to bring out the worst potential in them. The dirty scams, the lying corporation and the pirates...oh the pirates.
So basically, it is more lifelike than some are comfortable with.
The flip side to that is that, just like in real life, you can turn the tables on the offenders. The same game mechanics that allow them to cheat you are the same ones that allow you to gain a little revenge. In EVE it isn't the strongest that survive it is the most creative and the most cunning. So let your inner dark side out and enjoy the game or save yourself from the heart ache and look for a different MMO.
Good post csf and quite accurate.
I would add, however, that you don't NEED to "turn to the dark side" to thrive in eve. Being a "nice guy" in eve does frequently put you at a tactical disadvantage. I spend the vast majority of my time in hostile 0.0, but even after 5 years I still don't fire on neutrals and never have (and never will) pirate or scam. I get called a "carebear" for these policies but don't really give a shit because I go where I want to and do what I want to in the game.
Eve is unique in that it really does allow you to make a moral choice when you play... not by joining some "good" or "bad" NPC faction, but by your actions. If you want to be a real bastard in eve you have tremendous latitude. A solid percentage wouldn't think twice about killing every ship they see or screwing someone out of a billion ISK by intentionally misplacing a decimal point in a contract price. People get rich and powerful doing both....
For me the joy of competing with human opponents would be completely lost if CCP didn't allow the rotten side of human nature to express itself. My game is all about NOT taking that road and winning anyway.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
I am an eve and wow fan and I definitely agree that pvp in both games really have nothing to do with each other. The only thing that I think eve is lacking is large changes in tactics depending on your opponent. Not that you don’t adjust your strategy somewhat based on what is happening but it’s not like the differences when attacking different class combos in other mmos. Personally this makes pvp kind of stale after a while. Really if you have the right group pvp can get as mind numbing as mining in a frigate.
One thing I would like to point out though even in wow pvp is rarely evenly matched its just less aggravating to die repeatedly when it only costs you maybe 5 min of grinding instead of a few hours.
That is an excellent point. Sometimes it is hard not to join into the 'mob mentality' when it comes to playing the game the way you want to rather than how people expect you to. Well said Enkindu.