Cash for Clunkers proves stimulus is actually working

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Comments

  • frodusfrodus lexington, SCMember Posts: 2,396
    Originally posted by Astropuyo

    Originally posted by Ozarumon


    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20603037&sid=aZQsGa9XbZGY


    Cash for Clunkers needing more money may sound like a bad thing but when put into actual context its actually a success.

     

    Yeah, it really works.

    It works towards getting rid of "clunkers" out of the market so one must buy new or near new.

    It has in essence made "poor" people unable to buy some 250,000 cars that poor folks won't be able to buy.

    You must be of mind that not all those cars were "clunkers" but so much as trade in's.

     

    Yet more transportation denied to the lower castes.

     

    So yes , it worked very well. In destroying what could of been perfectly good cars, so John A Citizen could get that new shiny model.



     

    Nice...

    Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.

  • FaxxerFaxxer Lawton, OKMember Posts: 3,247
    Originally posted by frodus

    Originally posted by Astropuyo

    Originally posted by Ozarumon


    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20603037&sid=aZQsGa9XbZGY


    Cash for Clunkers needing more money may sound like a bad thing but when put into actual context its actually a success.

     

    Yeah, it really works.

    It works towards getting rid of "clunkers" out of the market so one must buy new or near new.

    It has in essence made "poor" people unable to buy some 250,000 cars that poor folks won't be able to buy.

    You must be of mind that not all those cars were "clunkers" but so much as trade in's.

     

    Yet more transportation denied to the lower castes.

     

    So yes , it worked very well. In destroying what could of been perfectly good cars, so John A Citizen could get that new shiny model.



     

    Nice...



     

    I was thinking a similar thing myself...

    It's a tiny version of how the house purchasing standards were lowered for people that could not afford new houses too...

    Freddie and Fannie all over again...

    Only this time, in about a year we're going to have massive car auctions from all the repo'd cars on the market lol.

    Here ya go!  a brand new car!  ....that you have to pay for.... oh but don't worry your clunker will qualify you to buy this!

    sign here, don't bother to look at the fine print (the part where is says you still have to pay for it)

    I should start saving cash so i can score some repos

  • frodusfrodus lexington, SCMember Posts: 2,396
    Originally posted by Faxxer

    Originally posted by frodus

    Originally posted by Astropuyo

    Originally posted by Ozarumon


    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20603037&sid=aZQsGa9XbZGY


    Cash for Clunkers needing more money may sound like a bad thing but when put into actual context its actually a success.

     

    Yeah, it really works.

    It works towards getting rid of "clunkers" out of the market so one must buy new or near new.

    It has in essence made "poor" people unable to buy some 250,000 cars that poor folks won't be able to buy.

    You must be of mind that not all those cars were "clunkers" but so much as trade in's.

     

    Yet more transportation denied to the lower castes.

     

    So yes , it worked very well. In destroying what could of been perfectly good cars, so John A Citizen could get that new shiny model.



     

    Nice...



     

    I was thinking a similar thing myself...

    It's a tiny version of how the house purchasing standards were lowered for people that could not afford new houses too...

    Freddie and Fannie all over again...

    Only this time, in about a year we're going to have massive car auctions from all the repo'd cars on the market lol.

    Here ya go!  a brand new car!  ....that you have to pay for.... oh but don't worry your clunker will qualify you to buy this!

    sign here, don't bother to look at the fine print (the part where is says you still have to pay for it)

    I should start saving cash so i can score some repos

    Yes indeed Faxxer cash is still king..hold on to it and their is going to be some great deals lol.

     

    Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.

  • frodusfrodus lexington, SCMember Posts: 2,396

     

    "This application provides access to DoT Cars System. When logged into the CARS system your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the US Government".

     

    Now go over their an log in....lol.

    Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAMember Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by FaxxerMaybe you fogot about how the argument on healthcare ended with your silence on the other thread?
     
    How about you go back to that thread if you got something of substance, but as i rememer all liberals stopped when a few facts stopped you all cold.

    Yep. My silence came from wanting to not argue with morons anymore.

    Which I won't do in this thread either.

    Btw: Still looking for that 100k proof, aren't you?

  • BrianshoBriansho Woodbridge, VAMember UncommonPosts: 3,586

    What other stimulus packages are coming? How about houses for the homeless? Are you homeless? The govt will write you a check and force lenders to give you a house for 300k+ and will pay the first years mortgage! Thanks China for all the extra money!

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • NarugNarug Hempstead, TXMember UncommonPosts: 629
    Originally posted by popinjay


     
     
    Yeah, the government in the U.S. should be more like the one in England where.. oh wait.
    Well, it should be more like Canad..


    err.. Fran...


    err.. Jap..


    err... Germa..
     
    err... Austra...


    err.. Ita..
     
    err...Venezu...
     
    err... Norwa...


    err... hmm.
     
    Welcome to the world, United States. About time we joined the rest of humanity. Now, about that healthcare...

    Yep...'Service Guarantees Citizenship'.

    "Interspersed throughout the book are other flashbacks to Rico's high school History and Moral Philosophy course, which describe how, in the Terran Federation, the rights of a full Citizen (to vote, and hold public office) must be earned through voluntary Federal service. However, the franchise cannot be exercised until after honorable discharge from the Service, which means that active members of the Service cannot vote. Those residents who opt not to perform Federal Service retain the other rights generally associated with a modern democracy (e.g. free speech, assembly, etc.), but cannot vote or hold public office."

    Obama Civilian Security Force and The Truth Squad

    *stops laughing*

    On a serious note to the topic I'll just add that cash for clunkers actually has certain amounts depending on what you're trading in.

    With that I'd say give a tax cut instead and let the people go buy their car without these "certain amount" decisions between $3500 and $4500. (equivalent to restrictions in my book and government interfering again)

    That will let us bypass this government spending.

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  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAMember Posts: 6,539

    This Cash for Clunkers is really huge now.


    People are actually writing their congressmen pissed off because the program had ran out of money, and they wanted to buy some more American cars, lol. The deal some of them were getting was the $4,500 for the clunker and another discounted $8k or $9k from the dealer/company. That's pretty huge.


    Congress is saying now that they burned through the first billion, they are alloting two billion more for citizens through August. I still don't think that's enough money... I think people will eat that up as well.

    This certainly is one of the Obama plans that's working. They just have to figure a way to get more of them this way. This will help everyone down the line from salesmen, mechanics, paperpushers, and ultimately Detroit who are finally moving cars again. Who wants to bet their next announcement is huge profits since this thing started?


    It certainly does look like the economy is turning around. Just need a few more homeruns like this Clunkers thing.

  • FaxxerFaxxer Lawton, OKMember Posts: 3,247
    Originally posted by popinjay


    This Cash for Clunkers is really huge now.


    People are actually writing their congressmen pissed off because the program had ran out of money, and they wanted to buy some more American cars, lol. The deal some of them were getting was the $4,500 for the clunker and another discounted $8k or $9k from the dealer/company. That's pretty huge.
     


    Congress is saying now that they burned through the first billion, they are alloting two billion more for citizens through August. I still don't think that's enough money... I think people will eat that up as well.
     
     
    This certainly is one of the Obama plans that's working. They just have to figure a way to get more of them this way. This will help everyone down the line from salesmen, mechanics, paperpushers, and ultimately Detroit who are finally moving cars again. Who wants to bet their next announcement is huge profits since this thing started?
     
     


    It certainly does look like the economy is turning around. Just need a few more homeruns like this Clunkers thing.



     

    I am starting to think you get paid by the democratic party or some other liberal source.

    The economy is NOT turning around

    this bill gives detroit money yes, but it was pandering to the unions. (union = democrats)

    The BETTER way to do this would have been to give a tax break to tax payers of $4500.  Then the ENTIRE econmy might start moving, not just the union thug auto industry.

    I sure could use that tax break to buy my kids clothes or maybe go on vacation to a RED state.

  • NarugNarug Hempstead, TXMember UncommonPosts: 629
    Originally posted by popinjay


    This Cash for Clunkers is really huge now.


    People are actually writing their congressmen pissed off because the program had ran out of money, and they wanted to buy some more American cars, lol. The deal some of them were getting was the $4,500 for the clunker and another discounted $8k or $9k from the dealer/company. That's pretty huge.
     


    Congress is saying now that they burned through the first billion, they are alloting two billion more for citizens through August. I still don't think that's enough money... I think people will eat that up as well.
     
     
    This certainly is one of the Obama plans that's working. They just have to figure a way to get more of them this way. This will help everyone down the line from salesmen, mechanics, paperpushers, and ultimately Detroit who are finally moving cars again. Who wants to bet their next announcement is huge profits since this thing started?
     
     


    It certainly does look like the economy is turning around. Just need a few more homeruns like this Clunkers thing.



     

    U.S. Economy Contracted by Smaller-Than-Expected 1% in 2Q

    So the economy still contracted.

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  • FishermageFishermage Newtown, CTMember Posts: 7,562

    Does anyone remember when the left used to be AGAINST corporate welfare?

     

  • frodusfrodus lexington, SCMember Posts: 2,396

    This week it seems the cacophony around Cash for Clunkers (C4C) has risen ever higher with various parties competing to find superlatives for the program.

    As the Senate this week contemplates additional funding that the House already passed Friday for the officially named Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS), it is a good time to step back and apply some logic to the question of the day: Is it wise to find more money to extend the program?

    To be sure, Internet shopping activity is up, showroom traffic is up and so are sales. So for an industry that has been starving for customers all year, the answer would seem to be a resounding "yes."

    We love a good sales surge as much as anyone, but to us the answer is not so simple, says Edmunds.com CEO Jeremy Anwyl.

    As we noted earlier in July, over 100,000 buyers had put their purchase on hold waiting for the Cash for Clunkers to launch. Is it any wonder that showrooms filled and the government servers crashed when this backlog of buyers rushed to finalize their purchase?

    Secondly, last week we published an analysis showing that in any given month 60,000 to 70,000 "clunkerlike" deals happen with no government program in place. In other words, the 200,000-plus deals the government was originally prepared to fund were barely above the "natural" clunker trade-in rate.

    So, the program was destined to sell out quickly. As word of this spread around the Internet, any consumer with any interest at all, rushed into their local dealership so as to not be left out.

    Clearly, the sales frenzy of last week was inevitable. In fact, students of economic theory will quickly recognize the dynamics of a classic shortage. We have taken three to four months of normal activity and caused them to occur over a few days, as consumers rushed to not miss out.

    What everyone fails to realize is that once this backlog is met, interest in the program will quickly fade.

    As is the case, there is also an ironic unintended consequence. Car companies have reduced production levels as one response to this downturn. Shortages are developing -- particularly around clunker-favored fuel-efficient models. As these prices rise, non-clunker buyers will inevitably shift to less-efficient models, crushing one of the touted environmental benefits of C4C.

    Despite the weight of these arguments, Congress -- never one to let the facts get in the way of a popular piece of legislation -- will undeniably approve additional funding next week. This will ease the funding "shortage" the original bill created and interest in C4C will probably fade as quickly as it started.

    But there is a silver lining to this cloud. Car sales will be up this summer, with or without C4C. Why? Consumers today are still feeling economically vulnerable. Even those buying a new vehicle want to make a decision that is as prudent as possible. Add to that, collective wisdom has it that the best deals available all year are in August/September when cars go on sale prior to the next year's models arriving late in September. So buyers have been putting off purchase and demand has been building all year. Some of which will be met through the next couple months.

    This raises an obvious question mark around October. The new models will be arriving; prices will be up. How will consumers react?

    But for now, though, we can look forward to a nice sales bounce through the summer.

    There is another lesson from the past few weeks. Much as with zero percent financing in 2001 and more recently employee pricing, Cash for Clunkers has united the industry around a common "buy now" message. The aggregate weight of this message -- in fact almost any message -- can easily energize the market.

    So should additional funds be found to extend C4C? We realize that in this era of proliferate spending $2 billion to $3 billion is hardly significant. But C4C is not a cure-all for auto sales -- only consumer confidence will trigger the fundamental sales increases the industry desperately needs. And as a stimulus, C4C would have been more defensible late last year.

    http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/08/more-money-for-cash-for-clunkers-not-so-fast.html

    Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.

  • TrizicTrizic Barrie, ONMember Posts: 76
    Originally posted by Fishermage


    Does anyone remember when the left used to be AGAINST corporate welfare?
     

     

    But now we found a way to make them our bitch...

    "A stupid idea to you is the memory of a lifetime for me"

  • FishermageFishermage Newtown, CTMember Posts: 7,562
    Originally posted by Trizic

    Originally posted by Fishermage


    Does anyone remember when the left used to be AGAINST corporate welfare?
     

     

    But now we found a way to make them our bitch...

     

    Yup, it's always been about power for the left. They never really gave a damn about anyone. Good point.

  • NarugNarug Hempstead, TXMember UncommonPosts: 629
    Originally posted by Fishermage


    Does anyone remember when the left used to be AGAINST corporate welfare?
     



     

    Here is one such lovely nugget indeed that can't helped be chuckled at:

    (still unsure of how far back their opposition goes back to but somehow I have a feeling it's way back) 

    Democrats Against Corporate Welfare

    H. R. 4254: Corporate Entitlement Reform Act of 2005

    "A BILL

    To establish a commission on corporate entitlement reform."

    Authored by: Rep. Jim Cooper [D-TN]

    Cosponsored by:

    Rep. John Conyers [D-MI]

    Rep. Jim Costa [D-CA]

    Rep. Lincoln Davis [D-TN]

    Rep. Rahm Emanuel [D-IL]

    Rep. Harold Ford [D-TN]

    Rep. Major Owens [D-NY]

    Rep. Timothy Ryan [D-OH]

    Rep. David Scott [D-GA]

    Rep. Christopher Van Hollen [D-MD]

    Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D-FL]



    Here's the text.



    Here are some nuggets:



    "Some Federal subsidies ... have the effect of providing certain companies or industries with unjustified windfalls or an unfair competitive advantage."



    "Such unfair subsidies are a burden on American taxpayers, and it is in the public interest

    to eliminate corporate subsidies and entitlements that do not serve or no longer serve a significant public interest."



    "The elimination or reduction of unnecessary subsidies would also potentially save the Federal government billions of taxpayer dollars per year by reducing inefficient spending and waste."



    "Corporate Entitlement



    (A) means any direct payment, service, tax advantage, tax expenditure, or benefit made by the Federal Government to an entity or industry engaged in a profitmaking enterprise, if such payment, service, or benefit is provided without a reasonable expectation that actions or activities undertaken or performed in return for such payment, service, or benefit would result in a return or benefit to the public at least as great as the payment, service, or benefit;



    (B) includes spending subsidies and free or below-market-rate services which are provided by the Federal Government, or any Federal en- tity, Federal agency, Government-sponsored enterprise, or Government corporation, to or with respect to any corporation or other profit-making enterprise;"

    Beyond that there are some exceptions for non-profits, federal entities, state/local governments, indian tribes, r&d awards, public health, etc.

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  • baffbaff swaveseyMember Posts: 9,457
    Originally posted by Dekron


    If it proves any stimulus works, it proves that the money should be given to the taxpayer, not the government, to spend to invest in the economy.

    This is my current take on it too, the best working Stimuli has thus far proven to have been tax breaks not government spending.

     

    The correct solution is to shrink the state as fast or faster then the private sector has shrunk.

     

    Money shouldn't be "given" to the tax payer, it should "not be taken" from the tax payer in the first place. Taking it and then giving it back is costly and wasteful.

  • FaxxerFaxxer Lawton, OKMember Posts: 3,247

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090804/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_cash_for_clunkers_transparency

     

    "LaHood, for example, promotes the fact that the Ford Focus so far is at the top of the list of new cars purchased under the program. But the limited information released so far shows most buyers are not picking Ford, Chrysler or General Motors vehicles, and six of the top 10 vehicles purchased are Honda, Toyota and Hyundai."

     

    I can see this huge successful help for our auto industry alright.'

    Let's give em 10 Billion, why not do it up right.

    This case is closed.  Obama FAILED.

     

  • ArndurArndur Frisco, TXMember Posts: 2,202
    Originally posted by Astropuyo

    Originally posted by Ozarumon


    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20603037&sid=aZQsGa9XbZGY


    Cash for Clunkers needing more money may sound like a bad thing but when put into actual context its actually a success.

     

    Yeah, it really works.

    It works towards getting rid of "clunkers" out of the market so one must buy new or near new.

    It has in essence made "poor" people unable to buy some 250,000 cars that poor folks won't be able to buy.

    You must be of mind that not all those cars were "clunkers" but so much as trade in's.

     

    Yet more transportation denied to the lower castes.

     

    So yes , it worked very well. In destroying what could of been perfectly good cars, so John A Citizen could get that new shiny model.



     

    lol there have been cars worth $100 traded in for the $4500 credit towards a new car. It was needed the car industry sucks right now. Cash for clunkers was the only thing that made july a ok month instead of a bad one for the industry. Not to mention dealerships are tripping over themselves to sell cars so people are getting good deals.

    Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.

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  • declaredemerdeclaredemer SydneyMember Posts: 2,698

    It reminds me of the Volstead Act (the "noble experiment") that provided the statutory provisions necessary to enforce the Eighteenth Amendment.  We are a country of experimentation with new policies, laws, rules, and regulations.  If they fail, we can change them.  Enforcement was, however, perhaps inequitable.  President Harding continued to drink with the Ohio Gang, while Joe the Plumbers/Sixpacks faced jail time. 

     

     

    Some people viewed the Volstead Act as an assertion of power that threatened the very identity of America and trampled upon individual liberties. 

     

     

    Cash for Clunkers, like the Volstead Act, is good government experimentation. 

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAMember Posts: 6,539

    That's exactly what we need nowadays.. experiments. The same old "trickle down" stuff didn't work. We just went through a helluva scare by doing the status quo when dealing with Wall Street people and corporate types and people are still brainwashed into thinking this is all government's fault (socialism). It's really getting old and people are becoming much smarter.


    Obama's Cash for Clunkers is doing good things by keeping the economy moving. Sure they could have GIVEN a small business hotdog cart guy $10k, but to what end? To sell a hotdog? It'll take that guy years to make an impact that America can see.That won't put much money into the economy. We need to get the economy moving in the fastest way possible; that's by infusion and encouraging BIG ticket spending items; cars, housing, durable goods. That's what this program is accomplishing.


    This gets older cars that burn MORE FUEL off the road and helps to move local commerce. Mechanics, salesman, dealers, detailers and stereo installers, parts suppliers (the biggest), local advertising, scrapyards to demolish and resell the scrap metal and a whole host of other businesses do better with experiments like these than does Willie's Dog Shop.


    We also get America to move forward into saving our resources by having more fuel efficient cars on the road, which gives us much less dependance of foreign oil that have terrorist ties and relatives. That ties into the national security interests as well. It also helps to give Detroit more capital to reinvest in America, and hopefully to keep more jobs from packing up to Mexico or Columbia where McCain wanted to send them.


    This program is doing well so far and some of the naysayers who just want Obama to fail should realize if he fails, YOU fail.

  • DekronDekron Oklahoma City, OKMember UncommonPosts: 7,356
    Originally posted by popinjay


    This program is doing well so far and some of the naysayers who just want Obama to fail should realize if he fails, YOU fail.

    To use the Democrats favorite saying towards opposition - nice fear-mongering.

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAMember Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by Dekron
    Originally posted by popinjay This program is doing well so far and some of the naysayers who just want Obama to fail should realize if he fails, YOU fail.
    To use the Democrats favorite saying towards opposition - nice fear-mongering.

    You scare easily then, that's not meant to scare.


    That's pretty much reality. If the plans don't work, and since the dunklehead conservatives have presented none of their own except "keep tax cuts for the rich", the U.S. would be in a bad way.


    If the Clunkers program works, its good for American and you. If the healthcare plan works, its good for America and you.

    People who keep rooting for these to fail out of jealous, hate, sour grapes or racism are just hurting the country as a whole like the Republicans. They had no intention of "bipartisanship" since Obama was elected.

  • EkibiogamiEkibiogami Clear Lake, TXMember UncommonPosts: 2,154
    Originally posted by popinjay


     

    Originally posted by Dekron


    Originally posted by popinjay
     
    This program is doing well so far and some of the naysayers who just want Obama to fail should realize if he fails, YOU fail.



    To use the Democrats favorite saying towards opposition - nice fear-mongering.



    You scare easily then, that's not meant to scare. Lol Fear-Mongering isent ment to scare... good one.

     



    That's pretty much reality. If the plans don't work, and since the dunklehead conservatives have presented none of their own except "keep tax cuts for the rich", the U.S. would be in a bad way. Yeah Liberals just bail them out.

     



    If the Clunkers program works, its good for American and you. If the healthcare plan works, its good for America and you. Neither will be good for america or me.

     

    People who keep rooting for these to fail out of jealous, hate, sour grapes or racism are just hurting the country as a whole like the Republicans. They had no intention of "bipartisanship" since Obama was elected. Lmao. Just like the Demacrats were bypartisan after they took over on 2006. And like a tipical Elitists You drag the race card into play for Even more fear-mongering. Verry nice trolling here pop. Blame the otherside for what your dooing in your own post. I need to make more Notes.



     

    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
    —Samuel Adams

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