I am surprised a company has not tried to make different servers for solo players and groupers. The problem with having both content on the same server is that it makes a very stale experience for a group to go through stuff that can be soloed and the group stuff is too hard for a solo player. This in turn makes it not worth one side doing the content and completely removes the content for the other side. If they had servers customized for both sides then everyone would have 100% of the content doable and fun.
So I heard from a couple people that post here on their ideas of soloing I heard that people who raid should not be allowed gear that gives them huge benefits over those who solo I also hear a lot that there should be solo dungeons where people go through dungeons solo and get loot on par to those who go in group dungeons.
Why? Soloing is easy, if it was hard you would need more than one person. and if everything can be soloed and not grouped what does that say for classes that have it harder to solo than those who dont IE pet classes vs healing classes. Should people who play pet classes be allowed to plow through content and get gear easier and faster than those who have harder jobs/classes?
Why do people like soloing in a mmorpg? You plow through content no matter how slow you take it, its still fast when soloing, you solo and beat all the content then what? You want for a new patch to come a long when can take months for more content. Soloing is what is killing mmorpgs now a days. Even single player RPGS do not have soloing, you are always grouped with other characters or NPCs. Any so called solo rpg IE legend of zelda is classified as an adeventure game or hack and slash or dungeon crawler not a RPG. Companys today are trying their hardest to balance soloing and group play that it will always hurt group play. The easier you make solo the less people want to group, the less content there will be to group. Lets take WoW for example after you solo all the way to 80 there are what 7 small man dungeons and 4 raids, before content patch there were three PVE raids.
Now take those numbers and what % of the content is that? Especially for raiders they have to see the same four raids over and over and over again just to get loot. Solo players have many different sites and quest to go by alone. The instances now a days even for any new mmorpg are just that fast instansted content, group play does not even have options we are told to go here if we want to group.
Yes we can group in solo content but why? we are hit hard for exp if we invite some one, the quest are longer, not kill quest but definately loot quest are much longer. It is much more of a pain in the ass to group than to solo in the solo aspect of the game. and even if we did group it just makes the game 100x more easier than it already is, grouping is supposed to be a challenge, overcoming challenges with others not plow through content asap. Should there be some soloing in games, yes there should be, should soloing be the main aspect of mmorpgs like it is today? No
I think the biggest thing your post doesn't take into acount is the number of players who feel the way you do must be outnumbered by those who prefer to solo because these companies are here to make money and in general are going to try and give the players what they think they want so it stands to reason there are more people who want to solo than to play a game where most of the content requires a group. Having said that you don't seem to want to bash solo players so I can sypathize with your view most mmo's should if possible contain more group content though not at the expense of solo content.
Still as has been stated this is not a winning argument as it just comes up all the time and complaining to the masses because your particular playstyle is not popular is more than likely not going to change things either way.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I love people who complain about bad players in PUG groups as being the reason they don't like to join a party in a MMORPG.
Why?
Because the bad players who don't know how to play in a party are usually the solo-only folks who just don't have the experiene in party mechanics so they screw up a lot lol.
"Aggro? What's aggro?"
*explain how threat works*
"Never had to worry about that solo..."
*explain about CC and controlling pulls to control threat and make pulls tankable*
"CC? What's CC I only ever pull one mob at a time soloing or I run."
*explain how mobs don't stop chasing you until you die or zone*
"What these mobs dont' stop chasing you in the dungeon?"
oh the fun I've had teaching solo players how to party.
...tired of this trend towards solo play at the expense of group play. Now, read that last sentance again and understand the difference. I am not tired of catering towards solo play, i solo just as much as the next guy, but catering to solo play at the expense of group play is what really gets to me. Give solo players more, sure, I'm all for it, but don't take away my group play thank you.
and yet players complained up a storm, long before games like EQ and FFXI added any reasonable amount of solo content, about how hard it was to get a group and having to LFG for hours and once they finally did get a group, it would break up shortly after due to real life issues.
It's ludicrous for you and others like you to pin the blame on soloers and solo content. It's so beyond the realm of fact that I can't believe you can type it with a straight face.
What is ruining mmo is the fact that developers are trying to take single player group based rpg game design and force it into a mmo setting. You want to fix the mmo genre stop designing them like that are console rpg.
UO had it right. You could solo from begining to end. It was of course safer to do it with a couple friends but there was no hard code that would not allow a smart skilled player to figure out a way to kill anything. Then in stomp EQ shoving a square peg into a round hole and all these developers with their lack of any true vision have been following suit ever since.
Again, what's the point of something being an MMO if it's designed to appease a solo crowd? Why pay 15$ a month for servers that thousands of players can log on to, if you dont ever want to interract with them?
Of course solo play should be included. It's human nature to want alone time, or "just space out and not worry about interaction" time in a game. But it should be FAR from the focus of a multiplayer game.
People just want shit handed to them. Which is basic human nature extended into the realm of video games. Few of us actually want any real "challenge", because few of us can deal with defeat. Few of us can find meaning in the struggle, and satisfaction in the effort.
And in that case, they should look into Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Oblivion, etc etc etc .... these games let people solo, at their own pace, and get top gear.
Why should one anti-social dude get the same reward as 10? That's like saying, you can either be paid a salary of 100,000k a year, or split it between yourself and 9 other guys. Who would willingly do that?
I have a strong feeling this "solo" crowd is largely comprised of people picked last for kickball at recess...
It all comes back to the very concepts of level, classes, party roles, and "end-game."
These very systems encourage and generally force group play over solo play.
Do things differently and all of a sudden you have a game you can solo or play with others 100% of the time, it's really a choice rather then a requirement or an option...
Which goes back to the difference between a choice and an option. An option implies that there is a "best" or most efficient and practical option while a choice implies true freedom.
All of a sudden you have a game where people solo or group because they want to, and everyone has something to do.
Even without loot if you put something in the game that requires many players to kill you will find many players willing to band together to defeat that foe.
So I heard from a couple people that post here on their ideas of soloing I heard that people who raid should not be allowed gear that gives them huge benefits over those who solo I also hear a lot that there should be solo dungeons where people go through dungeons solo and get loot on par to those who go in group dungeons.
I stopped reading your post after the first paragraph, I have never 'ever' seen anyone say soloers deserver more than raiders...
Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about just by the first sentence alone so your opinion holds no water.
Originally posted by johnspartan I love people who complain about bad players in PUG groups as being the reason they don't like to join a party in a MMORPG. Why? Because the bad players who don't know how to play in a party are usually the solo-only folks who just don't have the experiene in party mechanics so they screw up a lot lol. "Aggro? What's aggro?"
*explain how threat works*
"Never had to worry about that solo..."
*explain about CC and controlling pulls to control threat and make pulls tankable* "CC? What's CC I only ever pull one mob at a time soloing or I run."
*explain how mobs don't stop chasing you until you die or zone* "What these mobs dont' stop chasing you in the dungeon?" oh the fun I've had teaching solo players how to party.
I advocate both solo and group play in an mmo and a fair game design that balances both styles of play. Each have their place and there is nothing wrong with either however I prefer to solo when I can. I find it more relaxing and enjoyable than grouping more often than not.
So by your statement, since I mostly play solo in mmo's, then I have no idea what any of the above means...this would be incorrect.
Even though I have met players who have no idea how to group play their class, in end game they are rare. (at least in the games I played.) Its unfair and inacurrate to generalize on one players play style over the other.
Its not solo play thats ruining mmo's. Its the quick fix, gimme gimme gimme NOW mentatlity that is changing the way games are geared.
Again, what's the point of something being an MMO if it's designed to appease a solo crowd? Why pay 15$ a month for servers that thousands of players can log on to, if you dont ever want to interract with them? You do realize there is a huge difference between playing with people and being tethered to them. Of course solo play should be included. It's human nature to want alone time, or "just space out and not worry about interaction" time in a game. But it should be FAR from the focus of a multiplayer game. See above. People just want shit handed to them. Which is basic human nature extended into the realm of video games. Few of us actually want any real "challenge", because few of us can deal with defeat. Few of us can find meaning in the struggle, and satisfaction in the effort. No real argument so you fall back on the same old ignorant uninformed garbage. And in that case, they should look into Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Oblivion, etc etc etc .... these games let people solo, at their own pace, and get top gear. See first statement. Why should one anti-social dude get the same reward as 10? That's like saying, you can either be paid a salary of 100,000k a year, or split it between yourself and 9 other guys. Who would willingly do that? My company makes .... well not really sure but I still make my own individual salary. If I want a bigger piece of the pie I have to put forth the effort. No one is going to help me do a damn thing. I have a strong feeling this "solo" crowd is largely comprised of people picked last for kickball at recess... Wow there is not depth to your ignorance huh? So I guess the grouping crowd are the pansy that picked on the lone person to make their little ego (and other thing) feel bigger. -
Originally posted by Vocadi I advocate both solo and group play in an mmo and a fair game design that balances both styles of play. Each have their place and there is nothing wrong with either however I prefer to solo when I can. I find it more relaxing and enjoyable than grouping more often than not. So by your statement, since I mostly play solo in mmo's, then I have no idea what any of the above means...this would be incorrect. Even though I have met players who have no idea how to group play their class, in end game they are rare. (at least in the games I played.) Its unfair and inacurrate to generalize on one players play style over the other. Its not solo play thats ruining mmo's. Its the quick fix, gimme gimme gimme NOW mentatlity that is changing the way games are geared.
It is both fair and accurate to generalize when talking about MMOs on a web forum... this isn't a scientific dissertation people, it's a fucking forum.
I don't think it's the "gimme gimme now mentality" that has ruined MMOs, it's the "everyone is a beautiful and unique and special snowflake and deserves to be the uber amazing and awesomester hero master" mentality that has ruined MMOs, society, and many pairs of underwear.
You know what's really ruining MMOs today? Intolerance towards other people's play style. People need to take a step back and realize that MMOs are games and the whole point of playing them is to have fun.
These heated debates about solo and group are silly. We're all gamers, playing these games to have fun. We may have different ideas what fun is but in the long run, what you find fun is not better nor more important than what other people find fun.
Enjoy the game, play it and don't worry about how other people play it.
You know what's really ruining MMOs today? Intolerance towards other people's play style. People need to take a step back and realize that MMOs are games and the whole point of playing them is to have fun. These heated debates about solo and group are silly. We're all gamers, playing these games to have fun. We may have different ideas what fun is but in the long run, what you find fun is not better nor more important than what other people find fun. Enjoy the game, play it and don't worry about how other people play it.
Agreed.
So why is it so important that solo players have as much content and get just as good of gear as group players if "what you find fun is not better nor mor important than what other people find fun... play it and don't worry about how other people play it" ??
You know what's really ruining MMOs today? Intolerance towards other people's play style. People need to take a step back and realize that MMOs are games and the whole point of playing them is to have fun. These heated debates about solo and group are silly. We're all gamers, playing these games to have fun. We may have different ideas what fun is but in the long run, what you find fun is not better nor more important than what other people find fun. Enjoy the game, play it and don't worry about how other people play it.
You know what's really ruining MMOs today? Intolerance towards other people's play style. People need to take a step back and realize that MMOs are games and the whole point of playing them is to have fun. These heated debates about solo and group are silly. We're all gamers, playing these games to have fun. We may have different ideas what fun is but in the long run, what you find fun is not better nor more important than what other people find fun. Enjoy the game, play it and don't worry about how other people play it.
You hit the nail on the head. The issue isn't the other gamer or their style its that people inherently want to blame issues on someone else. The real issue is why aren't you having fun in the game anymore. Is it because something changed and you fail to have fun anymore or that you grew out of the game, what ever it is, in question.
People rarely take a step back and see what the real problem is, I'd say most of the time the real problem is ourselves in question.
Genre is dead, boring crap is all we have now. Group play should be rewarded, let soloers solo green mobs!!!!!! FFS!!!! Those that prefer to solo are shit when they do group! WOWification is the name of the game! Real men group! LOL soloers are bitches! GTFO !
You know what's really ruining MMOs today? Intolerance towards other people's play style. People need to take a step back and realize that MMOs are games and the whole point of playing them is to have fun. These heated debates about solo and group are silly. We're all gamers, playing these games to have fun. We may have different ideas what fun is but in the long run, what you find fun is not better nor more important than what other people find fun. Enjoy the game, play it and don't worry about how other people play it.
Genre is dead, boring crap is all we have now. Group play should be rewarded, let soloers solo green mobs!!!!!! FFS!!!! Those that prefer to solo are shit when they do group! WOWification is the name of the game! Real men group! LOL soloers are bitches! GTFO !
I sense the EQ refrence there. You forgot, you could solo, greens, light blues and blues. Yellows where a couple of people and reds where groupable. But there were way more yellows and reds out there. I agree, but I also agree that you need to have some solo content for the simple fact that you will not always find a group. But grouping should be the main incentive to play.
You know what's really ruining MMOs today? Intolerance towards other people's play style. People need to take a step back and realize that MMOs are games and the whole point of playing them is to have fun. These heated debates about solo and group are silly. We're all gamers, playing these games to have fun. We may have different ideas what fun is but in the long run, what you find fun is not better nor more important than what other people find fun. Enjoy the game, play it and don't worry about how other people play it.
omg you are awesome.
So why is it so important that solo players have as much content and get just as good of gear as group players if "what you find fun is not better nor mor important than what other people find fun... play it and don't worry about how other people play it" ??
Again, what's the point of something being an MMO if it's designed to appease a solo crowd? Why pay 15$ a month for servers that thousands of players can log on to, if you dont ever want to interract with them?
why does this have to be iterated over and over again.
It's bordering on comical.
solo players DO interact with people.
People who solo and who ARE paying 15 or so dollars per month are doing it becasue they find value in the experience.
The only issue I have are when solo players come in and demand that a game change for them. I say that AS a solo player. Of coruse, if I'm drawn to a game I would prefer soloable content. But I have no problem with content being group only. As an example, I play LOTRO but have done only a few of the book quests as most of them are group oriented. I would love it if they offered a solo option with different but decent rewards but I don't go crying that the game is not completely soloable.
If someone does something and they do it cheerfully then I would bet, in anything in life, it's safe to assume that they are finding value in it.
And YES, solo players interact with others. Just not in a way that some players demand of them.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Again, what's the point of something being an MMO if it's designed to appease a solo crowd? Why pay 15$ a month for servers that thousands of players can log on to, if you dont ever want to interract with them?
why does this have to be iterated over and over again.
It's bordering on comical.
solo players DO interact with people.
People who solo and who ARE paying 15 or so dollars per month are doing it becasue they find value in the experience.
The only issue I have are when solo players come in and demand that a game change for them. I say that AS a solo player. Of coruse, if I'm drawn to a game I would prefer soloable content. But I have no problem with content being group only. As an example, I play LOTRO but have done only a few of the book quests as most of them are group oriented. I would love it if they offered a solo option with different but decent rewards but I don't go crying that the game is not completely soloable.
If someone does something and they do it cheerfully then I would bet, in anything in life, it's safe to assume that they are finding value in it.
And YES, solo players interact with others. Just not in a way that some players demand of them.
Very well said, Sovrath!
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Comments
I am surprised a company has not tried to make different servers for solo players and groupers. The problem with having both content on the same server is that it makes a very stale experience for a group to go through stuff that can be soloed and the group stuff is too hard for a solo player. This in turn makes it not worth one side doing the content and completely removes the content for the other side. If they had servers customized for both sides then everyone would have 100% of the content doable and fun.
I think the biggest thing your post doesn't take into acount is the number of players who feel the way you do must be outnumbered by those who prefer to solo because these companies are here to make money and in general are going to try and give the players what they think they want so it stands to reason there are more people who want to solo than to play a game where most of the content requires a group. Having said that you don't seem to want to bash solo players so I can sypathize with your view most mmo's should if possible contain more group content though not at the expense of solo content.
Still as has been stated this is not a winning argument as it just comes up all the time and complaining to the masses because your particular playstyle is not popular is more than likely not going to change things either way.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I love people who complain about bad players in PUG groups as being the reason they don't like to join a party in a MMORPG.
Why?
Because the bad players who don't know how to play in a party are usually the solo-only folks who just don't have the experiene in party mechanics so they screw up a lot lol.
"Aggro? What's aggro?"
*explain how threat works*
"Never had to worry about that solo..."
*explain about CC and controlling pulls to control threat and make pulls tankable*
"CC? What's CC I only ever pull one mob at a time soloing or I run."
*explain how mobs don't stop chasing you until you die or zone*
"What these mobs dont' stop chasing you in the dungeon?"
oh the fun I've had teaching solo players how to party.
Your opinion is immaterial.
and yet players complained up a storm, long before games like EQ and FFXI added any reasonable amount of solo content, about how hard it was to get a group and having to LFG for hours and once they finally did get a group, it would break up shortly after due to real life issues.
It's ludicrous for you and others like you to pin the blame on soloers and solo content. It's so beyond the realm of fact that I can't believe you can type it with a straight face.
I re-quoted myself so you could read it again.
Your opinion is immaterial.
What is ruining mmo is the fact that developers are trying to take single player group based rpg game design and force it into a mmo setting. You want to fix the mmo genre stop designing them like that are console rpg.
UO had it right. You could solo from begining to end. It was of course safer to do it with a couple friends but there was no hard code that would not allow a smart skilled player to figure out a way to kill anything. Then in stomp EQ shoving a square peg into a round hole and all these developers with their lack of any true vision have been following suit ever since.
Again, what's the point of something being an MMO if it's designed to appease a solo crowd? Why pay 15$ a month for servers that thousands of players can log on to, if you dont ever want to interract with them?
Of course solo play should be included. It's human nature to want alone time, or "just space out and not worry about interaction" time in a game. But it should be FAR from the focus of a multiplayer game.
People just want shit handed to them. Which is basic human nature extended into the realm of video games. Few of us actually want any real "challenge", because few of us can deal with defeat. Few of us can find meaning in the struggle, and satisfaction in the effort.
And in that case, they should look into Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Oblivion, etc etc etc .... these games let people solo, at their own pace, and get top gear.
Why should one anti-social dude get the same reward as 10? That's like saying, you can either be paid a salary of 100,000k a year, or split it between yourself and 9 other guys. Who would willingly do that?
I have a strong feeling this "solo" crowd is largely comprised of people picked last for kickball at recess...
It all comes back to the very concepts of level, classes, party roles, and "end-game."
These very systems encourage and generally force group play over solo play.
Do things differently and all of a sudden you have a game you can solo or play with others 100% of the time, it's really a choice rather then a requirement or an option...
Which goes back to the difference between a choice and an option. An option implies that there is a "best" or most efficient and practical option while a choice implies true freedom.
All of a sudden you have a game where people solo or group because they want to, and everyone has something to do.
Even without loot if you put something in the game that requires many players to kill you will find many players willing to band together to defeat that foe.
Your opinion is immaterial.
I stopped reading your post after the first paragraph, I have never 'ever' seen anyone say soloers deserver more than raiders...
Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about just by the first sentence alone so your opinion holds no water.
I advocate both solo and group play in an mmo and a fair game design that balances both styles of play. Each have their place and there is nothing wrong with either however I prefer to solo when I can. I find it more relaxing and enjoyable than grouping more often than not.
So by your statement, since I mostly play solo in mmo's, then I have no idea what any of the above means...this would be incorrect.
Even though I have met players who have no idea how to group play their class, in end game they are rare. (at least in the games I played.) Its unfair and inacurrate to generalize on one players play style over the other.
Its not solo play thats ruining mmo's. Its the quick fix, gimme gimme gimme NOW mentatlity that is changing the way games are geared.
It is both fair and accurate to generalize when talking about MMOs on a web forum... this isn't a scientific dissertation people, it's a fucking forum.
I don't think it's the "gimme gimme now mentality" that has ruined MMOs, it's the "everyone is a beautiful and unique and special snowflake and deserves to be the uber amazing and awesomester hero master" mentality that has ruined MMOs, society, and many pairs of underwear.
Your opinion is immaterial.
You know what's really ruining MMOs today? Intolerance towards other people's play style. People need to take a step back and realize that MMOs are games and the whole point of playing them is to have fun.
These heated debates about solo and group are silly. We're all gamers, playing these games to have fun. We may have different ideas what fun is but in the long run, what you find fun is not better nor more important than what other people find fun.
Enjoy the game, play it and don't worry about how other people play it.
Agreed.
So why is it so important that solo players have as much content and get just as good of gear as group players if "what you find fun is not better nor mor important than what other people find fun... play it and don't worry about how other people play it" ??
I've already explained this once.
Your opinion is immaterial.
Genre is dead, boring crap is all we have now.
Group play should be rewarded, let soloers solo green mobs!!!!!! FFS!!!!
Those that prefer to solo are shit when they do group!
WOWification is the name of the game!
Real men group! LOL
soloers are bitches!
GTFO !
I couldn't agree more! Well said, sir!
You hit the nail on the head. The issue isn't the other gamer or their style its that people inherently want to blame issues on someone else. The real issue is why aren't you having fun in the game anymore. Is it because something changed and you fail to have fun anymore or that you grew out of the game, what ever it is, in question.
People rarely take a step back and see what the real problem is, I'd say most of the time the real problem is ourselves in question.
6 out of 10.points.
Different servers,,,,,,wow mode up to eq1 mode(original),,,,,,, then we play what we want!
Why is UO the only game I know of that had a "hard mode" server?
That was like.. 10 years ago. wtf.
Your opinion is immaterial.
That was alot longer then 10 years ago I do believe lol
omg
you are awesome.
I sense the EQ refrence there. You forgot, you could solo, greens, light blues and blues. Yellows where a couple of people and reds where groupable. But there were way more yellows and reds out there. I agree, but I also agree that you need to have some solo content for the simple fact that you will not always find a group. But grouping should be the main incentive to play.
omg
you are awesome.
So why is it so important that solo players have as much content and get just as good of gear as group players if "what you find fun is not better nor mor important than what other people find fun... play it and don't worry about how other people play it" ??
I've already explained this once.
Your opinion is immaterial.
why does this have to be iterated over and over again.
It's bordering on comical.
solo players DO interact with people.
People who solo and who ARE paying 15 or so dollars per month are doing it becasue they find value in the experience.
The only issue I have are when solo players come in and demand that a game change for them. I say that AS a solo player. Of coruse, if I'm drawn to a game I would prefer soloable content. But I have no problem with content being group only. As an example, I play LOTRO but have done only a few of the book quests as most of them are group oriented. I would love it if they offered a solo option with different but decent rewards but I don't go crying that the game is not completely soloable.
If someone does something and they do it cheerfully then I would bet, in anything in life, it's safe to assume that they are finding value in it.
And YES, solo players interact with others. Just not in a way that some players demand of them.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
why does this have to be iterated over and over again.
It's bordering on comical.
solo players DO interact with people.
People who solo and who ARE paying 15 or so dollars per month are doing it becasue they find value in the experience.
The only issue I have are when solo players come in and demand that a game change for them. I say that AS a solo player. Of coruse, if I'm drawn to a game I would prefer soloable content. But I have no problem with content being group only. As an example, I play LOTRO but have done only a few of the book quests as most of them are group oriented. I would love it if they offered a solo option with different but decent rewards but I don't go crying that the game is not completely soloable.
If someone does something and they do it cheerfully then I would bet, in anything in life, it's safe to assume that they are finding value in it.
And YES, solo players interact with others. Just not in a way that some players demand of them.
Very well said, Sovrath!
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?