Nah I couldn't care less about the complete idiot part. Call him whatever you want. lol
But to start up a studio takes a huge financial investment. Just the licensing alone for software properties is monumental when you figure you have to get a license for every employee using it. At least that's how it worked at my friend's engineering firm for some of the CAD software.
On top of that, you've got servers , salaries, other hardware, working environment. The start up costs aren't something people nowadays are going to just get a loan for, at least it's not as easy peasy as you make it sound.
How many people do you plan on hiring? Even if you say ok we'll hire 5 people and they'll work for peanuts what they usually would say $25k a year. That's $125k a year you're spending in salaries for 5 people. How fast do you think they'll design an MMO ready for release to start earning money??
If MMO companies were so easy to start up, they'd be all over the place like fast-food chains and the bigboys wouldn't rush products to the market in order to recoup their investment. Every day that MMO doesn't release they're losing a ton of money.
I was referring to that, not the OP being an idiot.
when you say "us" who are you actually referring to? you certainly do not speak for me and theres a few titles in there im looking forward to trying out. go piss and moan somewhere else and dont include everyone in your crybaby ramblings.
Nah I couldn't care less about the complete idiot part. Call him whatever you want. lol
But to start up a studio takes a huge financial investment. Just the licensing alone for software properties is monumental when you figure you have to get a license for every employee using it. At least that's how it worked at my friend's engineering firm for some of the CAD software. On top of that, you've got servers , salaries, other hardware, working environment. The start up costs aren't something people nowadays are going to just get a loan for, at least it's not as easy peasy as you make it sound. How many people do you plan on hiring? Even if you say ok we'll hire 5 people and they'll work for peanuts what they usually would say $25k a year. That's $125k a year you're spending in salaries for 5 people. How fast do you think they'll design an MMO ready for release to start earning money?? If MMO companies were so easy to start up, they'd be all over the place like fast-food chains and the bigboys wouldn't rush products to the market in order to recoup their investment. Every day that MMO doesn't release they're losing a ton of money. I was referring to that, not the OP being an idiot.
You make it work. Do you think every successful business out there was started by a genius with deep pockets?
I never said it was easy to build up a business, just that its easy to start one up. Mainly because you can find people who will work for 25k, you don't need facilities if you can find a group of people who can collaborate online, or work at your own home if you're all local (a lot of software companies start up like that). Licensing isn't all that expensive (relatively speaking) depending on what you need, you can easily keep it down to a few k per person. Get creative and you'll realize a lot of expenses you immediately think of aren't necessary up front. For example, servers and support hardware. I could easily turn the very machine I'm typing this on into a server-side development box, or even the test box for pre-alpha development/testing.
In general anyone in a stable (hell, even some that aren't very stable) position in life can start up a company and make it successful in the sense that you can sustain the business on its own merits. The problem is having a valid idea to work with and the willpower to go through with the risk.
The overall point is people complain about having the solution, and then don't do anything about it. Either you have a solution and work on it, or you continue to complain and come off as nothing more than a nut job. At least people who have issues with specific parts of a game can say they've found something their happy with it just need work. Doesn't quite work when you say everything sucks and this is what we really need...
You make it work. Do you think every successful business out there was started by a genius with deep pockets? No but I do think every successful business has had a revenue stream of some sort. To just jump in and make an MMO you dont have a revenue stream. The problem is having a valid idea to work with and the willpower to go through with the risk. The overall point is people complain about having the solution, and then don't do anything about it. Either you have a solution and work on it, or you continue to complain and come off as nothing more than a nut job. Yea I agree with this pretty much 100%. But remember,, it's not easy for people to risk everything. It's hard enough to hold on to what you've got. But your point is well-taken.
Originally posted by Draccan But hand on heart - disregarding your keen interest in YOUR upcoming favorite mmo - isn't the selection and industry in general rather lackluster?
No.
And for the record I have no special favorite - I await them all eagerly.
OK I'll touch on JGE and BP here. 1st off BP from what I seen and read looks more instanced then JGE. Open a menu, pick a mission, and you are whisk away to it instantly... well after a short load screen, but still. What worries me about JGE is Battlespace. The instance PvP zones, your arena like PvP.
I worry that Battlespace is going to kill Open RvR PvP in the contested area, kinda like Scenarios did in WAR.
Why? If people like instance PvP zones more than open PvP, then there is nothing wrong trying to provide to players what they like.
Oh I don't have any problem People enjoying them. I like BGs and WG in WoW and Scenarios in WAR myself.
Problem comes when that is the only things people do... leaving the Open World RvR areas empty... thus pointless.
I'm pretty happy with EVE atm but I am looking forward to Jumpgate Evolution, Black prophecy, Aion, and Champions online.
I'm the least worried bout Aion since i played it open beta. had great graphics, jaw dropping characters, but PVE was suck like every other MMO. but hoping pve gets better beyond early levels once i get wings and really hoping PVP is awesome
Champions online and Aion will probably be preorders for me. Really worried about champions. I never considered Cryptic a good game dev really. The good things bout city of heroes was really only the costume designer. The pvp had its good points even tho crytpic dropped the ball on it.
So aion is really only one i can see really being polished. CO sounds a bit rushed too me.
SW:ToR - has a huge following due to it being Star Wars and Bioware combined. But this is going to be a shiny co-op game with story that drives your character in a way with no freedom at all. Hardly an mmo.
I think you're underestimating just how much is going into this game.
There's literally no information out there about it, you have just chosen not to like it in an attempt to try and add validation to your argument.
This game has Bioware, Lucas Arts, EA, Mythic and probably others I haven't heard of yet. There's more content in this game then 10 KoTORs. It's adding substance to MMOs which has been severely lacking since the first MMOs came out.
This game has the opportunity to actually make you feel like part of the Star Wars universe, something EVERY mmo has failed at imo (to their respective universes, of course).
Now, I'm not saying the game *will* be an awesome MMO, I know very little about it. At least I know not enough to make a VALID judgement. But hell, it's got the potential to say the least.
They start making aspects of the genre that have been neglected better, and people bitch about it. I swear, too many idiots are allowed to speak now-a-days.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW -------- Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD --------- Played and loved: Eve and WoW -------- Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
Aion - probably the most polished game coming out. But despite the many nicer aspects of it it still just look like the same old, same old...
An aerial PvP game with battleground style instances where Elyos and Asmodians will be battling through to progress. One party from each side will be entering a Dreadgion.
They can either fight through or simply try to kill the captain of the Dreadgion first. Abyss points will be amongst the many rewards from this instance. Players will have to decide how they want to deal with the other party and how to reach the final boss faster.
(Dreadgions: are floating battleships that will drop Blue Draconic gear )
That sounds like the same old thing? WTF have you been playing? If it's anything better than what I wrote above then I wanna play that.
Originally posted by Draccan Hi DC - I think that video (I saw it almost a half year ago) is just as lackluster as the rest.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heQHHD3q5Ug - I just think the graphics are not cohesive and it looks bland. On top of that, the gameplay seems stale. I could be wrong of course, but this game is on the bottom of my list. CO is COH 2.0. As you said, they try to build on that game. Looking at gameplay footage it looks very much like that other game only with more genuine cartoonlike graphics. However even the blue neon energy walls separating cities and areas look the same. My main gripe though is that it has no pvp - no villains, as I wrote. How can that be off base? Yup sad about SG.W but that too was supposedly not very good. Aion - I have to check it out - will likely give it a chance... But that is still not contrary to what this post is about, the lack of massive in-depth worlds and the lack of intelligent mmo design.
I'm not sure what you'd be looking for if you think the gameplay shown in the Doomsday vid is stale. I don't know of any other mmo that lets you do all the things they showed in that vid. I'm not sold on the game yet - especially with the hints they've given about the planned payment model - but I'll keep watching it.
As for CO - it does have pvp. For the last few weeks they've been desperately trying to get that message out there. There's no villains, but there is solo and group pvp. Personally I agree that there should be villains - but you're completely wrong to say that it has no pvp.
Of course what has most people furious / laughing about CO is that they plan to launch with a subscription + microtransactions model. They've been insanely cryptic about the whole affair and they seem irritated by the fact potential customers expect to know how much their product costs before agreeing to buy it. It's all quite bizarre.
Champions online and Aion will probably be preorders for me. Really worried about champions. I never considered Cryptic a good game dev really. The good things bout city of heroes was really only the costume designer. The pvp had its good points even tho crytpic dropped the ball on it. So aion is really only one i can see really being polished. CO sounds a bit rushed too me.
Yeah - I think they're rushing to undo a few bad game design decisions atm.
They've admitted that limiting the UI to 7 powers instead of the full 14 was a mistake and are fixing that. I also wonder about a few other strange game mechanics I've read about in previews.
And when I read this recently, I didn't think it looked good for the state of the game.
6. City of Heroes /City of Villains fans will be pleased to know the game is going to be represented in full force at ComicCon. The surprise no show from Champions Online leaves room for the super hero game that started it all.
If nothing interests you in the MMO world, then it seems like a good time to go play other games. If all I played were MMO's, I would eventually go insane. As great as the fun I have had in a couple of MMO's, they will never compare to the joy of playing games like Morrowind / Oblivion / Fallout 3 / Uncharted: Drake's Fortune / Jade Empire / Super Mario Galaxy / God of War and the list could go on and on.
I like playing an MMO for maybe 6 months, then leaving to go enjoy all the other games I missed. When I stop seeing games I am interested, it usually means I will be selling a console and buying a different one.
Aion - probably the most polished game coming out. But despite the many nicer aspects of it it still just look like the same old, same old...
An aerial PvP game with battleground style instances where Elyos and Asmodians will be battling through to progress. One party from each side will be entering a Dreadgion.
They can either fight through or simply try to kill the captain of the Dreadgion first. Abyss points will be amongst the many rewards from this instance. Players will have to decide how they want to deal with the other party and how to reach the final boss faster.
(Dreadgions: are floating battleships that will drop Blue Draconic gear )
That sounds like the same old thing? WTF have you been playing? If it's anything better than what I wrote above then I wanna play that.
I was hoping Aion was all world pvevp? You make it sound like instanced BGs
Originally posted by PatchDay I was hoping Aion was all world pvevp? You make it sound like instanced BGs
It's neither of those. It's some world pvp and mostly RVR (in a very large multi-tiered zone with several fortresses). Sometimes those fortresses are attacked by a spaceship of the NPC faction and you have to team up to stop it (or leave and keep ganking eachother til it's gone, then fight to retake it). The NPC faction can ally with one side or the other as well.
The only real instancing at that point in the game is if you enter an actual raid instance, and opposing faction pvpers can still follow you even there and attack you.
Aion - probably the most polished game coming out. But despite the many nicer aspects of it it still just look like the same old, same old...
An aerial PvP game with battleground style instances where Elyos and Asmodians will be battling through to progress. One party from each side will be entering a Dreadgion.
They can either fight through or simply try to kill the captain of the Dreadgion first. Abyss points will be amongst the many rewards from this instance. Players will have to decide how they want to deal with the other party and how to reach the final boss faster.
(Dreadgions: are floating battleships that will drop Blue Draconic gear )
That sounds like the same old thing? WTF have you been playing? If it's anything better than what I wrote above then I wanna play that.
I was hoping Aion was all world pvevp? You make it sound like instanced BGs
I was just mentioning a feature in response to his comment that Aion is the "same old..."
Aion even has randomly spawning rifts with PvP and PvE content.
I agree with the OP 100%. The mmo genre has come to a 'grinding' halt. With broadband connections getting faster and faster, you'd think that the worlds would get bigger and richer, and you'd think that they'd feel more 'alive' with a lot of mystery. But no, they're getting more static and more 'arcade-like' with the grinding mobs and the long, tedious quests to find bunny pelts for some guy you don't even know but is willing to fill you in on the rest of the boring story that no one cares to follow. Sad.
I was hoping Aion was all world pvevp? You make it sound like instanced BGs
I haven't gotten into Aion's pvp personally yet, but from what I've read of it...
There is an open pvp zone where guilds can capture castles and there's RvR over there.
The pve areas of the game are separate for each faction, but rifts randomly open that allow you to go to an area belonging to the opposing faction. That allows for some world pvp - but makes it difficult for high level players to camp lower level zones of the opposing faction and constantly one-shot nooblets.
Aion - probably the most polished game coming out. But despite the many nicer aspects of it it still just look like the same old, same old...
An aerial PvP game with battleground style instances where Elyos and Asmodians will be battling through to progress. One party from each side will be entering a Dreadgion.
They can either fight through or simply try to kill the captain of the Dreadgion first. Abyss points will be amongst the many rewards from this instance. Players will have to decide how they want to deal with the other party and how to reach the final boss faster.
(Dreadgions: are floating battleships that will drop Blue Draconic gear )
That sounds like the same old thing? WTF have you been playing? If it's anything better than what I wrote above then I wanna play that.
You really need to explain this event. This instance doesn't happen all the time. You can't just walk up to an NPC with a party and join this instance. The Dreadgion randomly flies into the Abyss at a random time and your party has to be the first of your side to join the fight. It's not like you can farm gear in this instance.
On the other flipside of the coin this is the first evidence of real instance PvP which IMO is a bad thing. Cross your fingers and play Aion while it lacks real instanced PvP to farm gear like WoW.
I've been thinking the same thing as OP for a while now. The only thing that had me exited a year ago was WAR and while I still play and enjoy it (mostly due to beeing in a very, very good guild) I still want.. well... a better balanced game.
What would make me exited again then? Well, I enjoy both pvp and pve so a game with both is preferable. 2 factions is too hard to balance so either more or no factions is more interesting. Good vs evil is old and still works but I want something new or/and different. What about Horror vs Sci-fi vs Fantasy or something?
I don't like games where everything is about what gear you're wearing. Sure, gear should be important but not vital in every aspect to be able to compete. I want skill to matter. There's a lot more I would like in a game but these are a few things I'm looking for when browsing upcoming releases.
Comments
Nah I couldn't care less about the complete idiot part. Call him whatever you want. lol
But to start up a studio takes a huge financial investment. Just the licensing alone for software properties is monumental when you figure you have to get a license for every employee using it. At least that's how it worked at my friend's engineering firm for some of the CAD software.
On top of that, you've got servers , salaries, other hardware, working environment. The start up costs aren't something people nowadays are going to just get a loan for, at least it's not as easy peasy as you make it sound.
How many people do you plan on hiring? Even if you say ok we'll hire 5 people and they'll work for peanuts what they usually would say $25k a year. That's $125k a year you're spending in salaries for 5 people. How fast do you think they'll design an MMO ready for release to start earning money??
If MMO companies were so easy to start up, they'd be all over the place like fast-food chains and the bigboys wouldn't rush products to the market in order to recoup their investment. Every day that MMO doesn't release they're losing a ton of money.
I was referring to that, not the OP being an idiot.
when you say "us" who are you actually referring to? you certainly do not speak for me and theres a few titles in there im looking forward to trying out. go piss and moan somewhere else and dont include everyone in your crybaby ramblings.
Riiight because YOU are not excited the industry has failed US? Speak for yourself.
You make it work. Do you think every successful business out there was started by a genius with deep pockets?
I never said it was easy to build up a business, just that its easy to start one up. Mainly because you can find people who will work for 25k, you don't need facilities if you can find a group of people who can collaborate online, or work at your own home if you're all local (a lot of software companies start up like that). Licensing isn't all that expensive (relatively speaking) depending on what you need, you can easily keep it down to a few k per person. Get creative and you'll realize a lot of expenses you immediately think of aren't necessary up front. For example, servers and support hardware. I could easily turn the very machine I'm typing this on into a server-side development box, or even the test box for pre-alpha development/testing.
In general anyone in a stable (hell, even some that aren't very stable) position in life can start up a company and make it successful in the sense that you can sustain the business on its own merits. The problem is having a valid idea to work with and the willpower to go through with the risk.
The overall point is people complain about having the solution, and then don't do anything about it. Either you have a solution and work on it, or you continue to complain and come off as nothing more than a nut job. At least people who have issues with specific parts of a game can say they've found something their happy with it just need work. Doesn't quite work when you say everything sucks and this is what we really need...
No.
And for the record I have no special favorite - I await them all eagerly.
Why? If people like instance PvP zones more than open PvP, then there is nothing wrong trying to provide to players what they like.
Oh I don't have any problem People enjoying them. I like BGs and WG in WoW and Scenarios in WAR myself.
Problem comes when that is the only things people do... leaving the Open World RvR areas empty... thus pointless.
He sure as hell doesn't speak for me.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I'm pretty happy with EVE atm but I am looking forward to Jumpgate Evolution, Black prophecy, Aion, and Champions online.
I'm the least worried bout Aion since i played it open beta. had great graphics, jaw dropping characters, but PVE was suck like every other MMO. but hoping pve gets better beyond early levels once i get wings and really hoping PVP is awesome
Champions online and Aion will probably be preorders for me. Really worried about champions. I never considered Cryptic a good game dev really. The good things bout city of heroes was really only the costume designer. The pvp had its good points even tho crytpic dropped the ball on it.
So aion is really only one i can see really being polished. CO sounds a bit rushed too me.
I am guessing it is supposed to be Earthrise, though it did take me a long damn while to figure it out...
I think you're underestimating just how much is going into this game.
There's literally no information out there about it, you have just chosen not to like it in an attempt to try and add validation to your argument.
This game has Bioware, Lucas Arts, EA, Mythic and probably others I haven't heard of yet. There's more content in this game then 10 KoTORs. It's adding substance to MMOs which has been severely lacking since the first MMOs came out.
This game has the opportunity to actually make you feel like part of the Star Wars universe, something EVERY mmo has failed at imo (to their respective universes, of course).
Now, I'm not saying the game *will* be an awesome MMO, I know very little about it. At least I know not enough to make a VALID judgement. But hell, it's got the potential to say the least.
They start making aspects of the genre that have been neglected better, and people bitch about it. I swear, too many idiots are allowed to speak now-a-days.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
--------
Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
---------
Played and loved: Eve and WoW
--------
Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
An aerial PvP game with battleground style instances where Elyos and Asmodians will be battling through to progress. One party from each side will be entering a Dreadgion.
They can either fight through or simply try to kill the captain of the Dreadgion first. Abyss points will be amongst the many rewards from this instance. Players will have to decide how they want to deal with the other party and how to reach the final boss faster.
(Dreadgions: are floating battleships that will drop Blue Draconic gear )
That sounds like the same old thing? WTF have you been playing? If it's anything better than what I wrote above then I wanna play that.
Exactly.
Although he's right about DC at least. Everything I've seen on that game looks lackluster.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I'm not sure what you'd be looking for if you think the gameplay shown in the Doomsday vid is stale. I don't know of any other mmo that lets you do all the things they showed in that vid. I'm not sold on the game yet - especially with the hints they've given about the planned payment model - but I'll keep watching it.
As for CO - it does have pvp. For the last few weeks they've been desperately trying to get that message out there. There's no villains, but there is solo and group pvp. Personally I agree that there should be villains - but you're completely wrong to say that it has no pvp.
Of course what has most people furious / laughing about CO is that they plan to launch with a subscription + microtransactions model. They've been insanely cryptic about the whole affair and they seem irritated by the fact potential customers expect to know how much their product costs before agreeing to buy it. It's all quite bizarre.
Yeah - I think they're rushing to undo a few bad game design decisions atm.
They've admitted that limiting the UI to 7 powers instead of the full 14 was a mistake and are fixing that. I also wonder about a few other strange game mechanics I've read about in previews.
And when I read this recently, I didn't think it looked good for the state of the game.
6. City of Heroes /City of Villains fans will be pleased to know the game is going to be represented in full force at ComicCon. The surprise no show from Champions Online leaves room for the super hero game that started it all.
If nothing interests you in the MMO world, then it seems like a good time to go play other games. If all I played were MMO's, I would eventually go insane. As great as the fun I have had in a couple of MMO's, they will never compare to the joy of playing games like Morrowind / Oblivion / Fallout 3 / Uncharted: Drake's Fortune / Jade Empire / Super Mario Galaxy / God of War and the list could go on and on.
I like playing an MMO for maybe 6 months, then leaving to go enjoy all the other games I missed. When I stop seeing games I am interested, it usually means I will be selling a console and buying a different one.
An aerial PvP game with battleground style instances where Elyos and Asmodians will be battling through to progress. One party from each side will be entering a Dreadgion.
They can either fight through or simply try to kill the captain of the Dreadgion first. Abyss points will be amongst the many rewards from this instance. Players will have to decide how they want to deal with the other party and how to reach the final boss faster.
(Dreadgions: are floating battleships that will drop Blue Draconic gear )
That sounds like the same old thing? WTF have you been playing? If it's anything better than what I wrote above then I wanna play that.
I was hoping Aion was all world pvevp? You make it sound like instanced BGs
It's neither of those. It's some world pvp and mostly RVR (in a very large multi-tiered zone with several fortresses). Sometimes those fortresses are attacked by a spaceship of the NPC faction and you have to team up to stop it (or leave and keep ganking eachother til it's gone, then fight to retake it). The NPC faction can ally with one side or the other as well.
The only real instancing at that point in the game is if you enter an actual raid instance, and opposing faction pvpers can still follow you even there and attack you.
An aerial PvP game with battleground style instances where Elyos and Asmodians will be battling through to progress. One party from each side will be entering a Dreadgion.
They can either fight through or simply try to kill the captain of the Dreadgion first. Abyss points will be amongst the many rewards from this instance. Players will have to decide how they want to deal with the other party and how to reach the final boss faster.
(Dreadgions: are floating battleships that will drop Blue Draconic gear )
That sounds like the same old thing? WTF have you been playing? If it's anything better than what I wrote above then I wanna play that.
I was hoping Aion was all world pvevp? You make it sound like instanced BGs
I was just mentioning a feature in response to his comment that Aion is the "same old..."
Aion even has randomly spawning rifts with PvP and PvE content.
I agree with the OP 100%. The mmo genre has come to a 'grinding' halt. With broadband connections getting faster and faster, you'd think that the worlds would get bigger and richer, and you'd think that they'd feel more 'alive' with a lot of mystery. But no, they're getting more static and more 'arcade-like' with the grinding mobs and the long, tedious quests to find bunny pelts for some guy you don't even know but is willing to fill you in on the rest of the boring story that no one cares to follow. Sad.
I haven't gotten into Aion's pvp personally yet, but from what I've read of it...
There is an open pvp zone where guilds can capture castles and there's RvR over there.
The pve areas of the game are separate for each faction, but rifts randomly open that allow you to go to an area belonging to the opposing faction. That allows for some world pvp - but makes it difficult for high level players to camp lower level zones of the opposing faction and constantly one-shot nooblets.
An aerial PvP game with battleground style instances where Elyos and Asmodians will be battling through to progress. One party from each side will be entering a Dreadgion.
They can either fight through or simply try to kill the captain of the Dreadgion first. Abyss points will be amongst the many rewards from this instance. Players will have to decide how they want to deal with the other party and how to reach the final boss faster.
(Dreadgions: are floating battleships that will drop Blue Draconic gear )
That sounds like the same old thing? WTF have you been playing? If it's anything better than what I wrote above then I wanna play that.
You really need to explain this event. This instance doesn't happen all the time. You can't just walk up to an NPC with a party and join this instance. The Dreadgion randomly flies into the Abyss at a random time and your party has to be the first of your side to join the fight. It's not like you can farm gear in this instance.
On the other flipside of the coin this is the first evidence of real instance PvP which IMO is a bad thing. Cross your fingers and play Aion while it lacks real instanced PvP to farm gear like WoW.
No good mmorpgs has been released since WoW.
Thats like 4 years............
Agree with that.
I've been thinking the same thing as OP for a while now. The only thing that had me exited a year ago was WAR and while I still play and enjoy it (mostly due to beeing in a very, very good guild) I still want.. well... a better balanced game.
What would make me exited again then? Well, I enjoy both pvp and pve so a game with both is preferable. 2 factions is too hard to balance so either more or no factions is more interesting. Good vs evil is old and still works but I want something new or/and different. What about Horror vs Sci-fi vs Fantasy or something?
I don't like games where everything is about what gear you're wearing. Sure, gear should be important but not vital in every aspect to be able to compete. I want skill to matter. There's a lot more I would like in a game but these are a few things I'm looking for when browsing upcoming releases.
Tried: Most MMO's, Playing: EQ2