I don't get why people are complaining so much about this.
From what I can see, the OP isn't saying all MMOs should cater to him, just that he's looking for one that does. And if he finds one that makes him happy then great.
Personally I would not like the type of game he's looking for, but why shouldn't there be one like that if there is an audience for it? If that's the kind of game you want, then join up. If it's not, then don't.
No reason to get all pissy because 1 game doesn't fit the mold I'm personally looking for.
Again there are always execptions to the rules. All that you speak about are the exceptions. Yes I think that in life you get what you earn. I think that is very true. IF you put in the time and effort you get rewarded in life. I have seen it a million times. Life is unfair and so is gaming. So maybe you need to get over it. If you do not have enough time to keep up with the hardcore gamers then you do not get the rewards or levels as fast as they do.
The game I'm going to be playing this way is in development, called Alganon. I'll be able to keep up with any "hardcore" gamers by setting my character to study while I"m offline.
So, I don't need to "get over it". But thanks anyway.
I don't get why people are complaining so much about this. From what I can see, the OP isn't saying all MMOs should cater to him, just that he's looking for one that does. And if he finds one that makes him happy then great. Personally I would not like the type of game he's looking for, but why shouldn't there be one like that if there is an audience for it? If that's the kind of game you want, then join up. If it's not, then don't. No reason to get all pissy because 1 game doesn't fit the mold I'm personally looking for.
Ah, the voice of reason! Exactly. You'd think I was trying to take their binky from them.
Why do you feel you need to do it in teh same number of days as the other person?
I don't feel the "need" to do anything; I'm not playing any MMOG right now. It's not a need. I'd like to play a game where my character's advancement in an MMO is not tied to "how much time I have to play", but is entirely based on my strategy for advancing him her, and such advancement would be equal to what any other player can do. I"m not saying it's better for everyone, or that everyone would enjoy it, or that all the games out there that currently favor powergamers/raiders should be terminated.
As it is, I have my game - Alganon. I promise not to bring my offline-advanced Alaganon character into your game and ruin it for you, okay?
These two don't seem to really match up.
As I understand it, Alganon lets you skill or level up just for paying the monthly subscription.
Does anyone actually read the OP's posts before jumping to conclusion? You all think that he wants a single player game after he said multiple times that he does not, or that he wants an easy-button that gets him to the end of the game with all the best gear.
Clearly, this is not what he is asking for. He is looking for a game where skill and long term strategy, can outweigh, or at least balance out, to endless hours spend in dungeons. I don't really see any problem with this time of game. Like many people, I don't have much time to play MMO's, but I would still like to play them and enjoy the full game. Obviously a lot of people here seem to think that time invested should be the only key to success. If you don't like the time of game he is suggesting, I suggest that you don't play it. It's really that simple.
Again there are always execptions to the rules. All that you speak about are the exceptions. Yes I think that in life you get what you earn. I think that is very true. IF you put in the time and effort you get rewarded in life. I have seen it a million times. Life is unfair and so is gaming. So maybe you need to get over it. If you do not have enough time to keep up with the hardcore gamers then you do not get the rewards or levels as fast as they do.
The game I'm going to be playing this way is in development, called Alganon. I'll be able to keep up with any "hardcore" gamers by setting my character to study while I"m offline.
So, I don't need to "get over it". But thanks anyway.
Really? Do you think the offline skill training will level the playing field and make you equal? Time to go back to my earlier EVE example.
In EVE there is offline training and it sort of equalizes things over the long haul, but there are some qualifiers.
First, while everyone can be competitive, we can't all do it at the same time. When you first start out, you fly a small number of ships well. As time progresses, you'll fly more ships well. These ships can be competitive with any long term veteran, however, that said, you will never fly as many ships as the veteran. Not that you need to, but if you think being able to fly every ship is a factor of equality, then you'll feel ripped off by EVE's design.
Alganon may work the same way, unless there's a cap on the skills that every player will reach in a short amount of time.
Another factor, skills / levels are not the only factor in character strength. Gear and wealth usually play a big factor, and this is really true in EVE.
You might be able to train every skill in EVE off line, but you have to pay ISK for them, and some are quite expensive. (I just bought one for 55M ISK, and there are some worth far more).
If you don't play enough to earn the ISK you need to train up these skills and then buy and fit such a ship, you'll still feel like a 2nd class gamer.
Alganon probably won't be much different. Won't do you a bit of good to have level 50 (or skill level 100) the same as me if I can play far more time than you and be carrying the "Legendary Sword of Whooparse" that I got by running some epic dungeon 8 hours a day for a month.
WOW and other gear centric games (and most MMORPG's are gear centic) still cater to those who can spend a lot of time earning said great gear.
I can't believe that Alganon's going to make it so there's not disparity in player gear, otherwise players would have nothing to shoot for.
One great equalizer in EVE is selling time cards for ISK, then you can train your skills and have the money to pay for them. Or you can buy gold from farmers in other games. Either way, you try to level your disadvantage.
And yet, even with that, you are a 2nd class player. Why? Because of the third and greatest factor, player skill.
Yep, its true, if you don't play regularly, you will be less skilled at your character than other folks. Even with terrific gear, you are still going to be destroyed by a great player. I should know, I'm not a great player, and even with really well equipped ships and high skills, people with more actual gaming skill beat the tar out of me. (I compensate by always bringing better skilled friends to help me)
So no matter how much you strive for a level playing field, no matter what Alganon or any other game tries to do, unless you have some natural talent, and plenty of time to practice, expect to be a 2nd class citizen in an MMO.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In my opinion, you are too concerned with how other players view your character. Who cares if you are 2nd rate with 3rd rate gear? Those concepts shouldn't even exist if you are having fun playing the game. If the only fun part of a multiplayer game is trying to keep up with everyone else, coveting their gear and stuff, then I honestly feel sorry for you. Play the game at your own pace and say to hell with what anyone else thinks about your gear.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I can't believe that Alganon's going to make it so there's not disparity in player gear, otherwise players would have nothing to shoot for. I know its hard to believe but there are things in multiplayer games worth accomplishing other than gear upgrades. In my opinion, this fallacy is a great detriment to the genre.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I can't wait to see how it all comes together. Going away from this you HAVE to sit at your computer for hours straight to do any meaningful (loot whoring) in end game is such a piss poor design.
I don't get why people are complaining so much about this. From what I can see, the OP isn't saying all MMOs should cater to him, just that he's looking for one that does. And if he finds one that makes him happy then great. Personally I would not like the type of game he's looking for, but why shouldn't there be one like that if there is an audience for it? If that's the kind of game you want, then join up. If it's not, then don't. No reason to get all pissy because 1 game doesn't fit the mold I'm personally looking for.
Because this is how the MMO genre is going. Making it easier and easier to get the rewards. It is ruining the genre that I love playing.
I am not pissed about the game, I am pissed that this person thinks that this is a good idea. It is not a good idea, it just takes away the point of playing games. You can advance while not playing? What is the point of even playing a game then?
Why shouldn't I have a game for my playstyle? No games cater to hardcore players anymore, its all instant gradification. Easy rewards, easy gameplay. That is what the genre is now. I miss my days in EQ1. I am back playing it and even EQ1 has dumbed down the gameplay. It is the new thing to do. Make the games stupid proof and that is what is pissing me off.
Does anyone actually read the OP's posts before jumping to conclusion? You all think that he wants a single player game after he said multiple times that he does not, or that he wants an easy-button that gets him to the end of the game with all the best gear. Clearly, this is not what he is asking for. He is looking for a game where skill and long term strategy, can outweigh, or at least balance out, to endless hours spend in dungeons. I don't really see any problem with this time of game. Like many people, I don't have much time to play MMO's, but I would still like to play them and enjoy the full game. Obviously a lot of people here seem to think that time invested should be the only key to success. If you don't like the time of game he is suggesting, I suggest that you don't play it. It's really that simple.
See this is the major problem. NOBODY IS SAYING THAT TIME INVESTED SHOULD BE THE MAIN KEY. What we are saying is that if you want the rewards you should have to put in the effort. This getting shit for free is getting old, it is ruining the genre and the world.
Look at the little league shit now. Everyone gets a trophy for playing, its stupid, it does not teach kids anything good. Same with gaming, Everyone gets to be max level with the great gear now with no effort.
EFFORT does not EQUAL TIME. Get that though your head. Effort does not equal time.
Basicly the OP is asking to be able to keep up with gamers that have more time to invest into the game, that is simply asking for a free hand out. Again a player that puts in the time and effort to advance his character should have better rewards then a player that does not put in the time and effort. Its that simple.
The whole Risk vs Reward system is dead and that is wrong. That is the best system for MMOs. The more you risk the better the rewards. The more effort you put in the more you get out. This instant gradification system is screwing the players that want to have a challenge in there games. What game has any challenge to it anymore. Everything is on easy mode, no thinking involved.
I don't feel the "need" to do anything; I'm not playing any MMOG right now. It's not a need. I'd like to play a game where my character's advancement in an MMO is not tied to "how much time I have to play", but is entirely based on my strategy for advancing him her, and such advancement would be equal to what any other player can do. I"m not saying it's better for everyone, or that everyone would enjoy it, or that all the games out there that currently favor powergamers/raiders should be terminated. As it is, I have my game - Alganon. I promise not to bring my offline-advanced Alaganon character into your game and ruin it for you, okay?
These two don't seem to really match up.
As I understand it, Alganon lets you skill or level up just for paying the monthly subscription.
How is this entirely based on strategy?
"Level up" is the wrong conception. Alganon has many different things you can set your character to study, including different combat techniques, crafting and gathering skills, etc. You can only set your character to study one thing at a time. The strategy comes in deciding what to study on. Swordplay, stregth, ice spells, fire, agility, some particular aspect of blacksmithing, some particular kind of gathering. These are things you can't get by going in and spending 18hrs a day banging keys.
The powergamer's toon general level might go up a lot faster, and be stronger than my character in the short run, but I'll be acquiring - slowly but surely - advantages not available outside of the study system - such as increases to base stats and access to combat abilities the non-studyer won't be able to achieve without having invested the same amount of study-time. Also, whatever loot is available in a raid scenario, will have an alternative means of distribution through studying thing like lore and crafting and acquiring quests via that study.
I won't be able to generally just level the character up via offline study; I'll have access to a broader development of my character's abilities, professions and opportunities in the game if I study, and I can study 24/7. They are going to implement a study management system so you can tell your character what to study and for how long while you are away.
I don't feel the "need" to do anything; I'm not playing any MMOG right now. It's not a need. I'd like to play a game where my character's advancement in an MMO is not tied to "how much time I have to play", but is entirely based on my strategy for advancing him her, and such advancement would be equal to what any other player can do. I"m not saying it's better for everyone, or that everyone would enjoy it, or that all the games out there that currently favor powergamers/raiders should be terminated. As it is, I have my game - Alganon. I promise not to bring my offline-advanced Alaganon character into your game and ruin it for you, okay?
These two don't seem to really match up.
As I understand it, Alganon lets you skill or level up just for paying the monthly subscription.
How is this entirely based on strategy?
"Level up" is the wrong conception. Alganon has many different things you can set your character to study, including different combat techniques, crafting and gathering skills, etc. You can only set your character to study one thing at a time. The strategy comes in deciding what to study on. Swordplay, stregth, ice spells, fire, agility, some particular aspect of blacksmithing, some particular kind of gathering. These are things you can't get by going in and spending 18hrs a day banging keys.
The powergamer's toon general level might go up a lot faster, and be stronger than my character in the short run, but I'll be acquiring - slowly but surely - advantages not available outside of the study system - such as increases to base stats and access to combat abilities the non-studyer won't be able to achieve without having invested the same amount of study-time. Also, whatever loot is available in a raid scenario, will have an alternative means of distribution through studying thing like lore and crafting and acquiring quests via that study.
I won't be able to generally just level the character up via offline study; I'll have access to a broader development of my character's abilities, professions and opportunities in the game if I study, and I can study 24/7. They are going to implement a study management system so you can tell your character what to study and for how long while you are away.
The system you are talking about will not help you not be a 2nd or 3rd rate character because the smart hardcore gamer will play the game 8 hours a day and study the time he is at work and sleeping. So he will keep up with your "study" progress and blow you away with in game skills and levels.
So really this system you are prompting is not going to solve the issue you are talking about. its funny how you cannot see this.
The system you are talking about will not help you not be a 2nd or 3rd rate character because the smart hardcore gamer will play the game 8 hours a day and study the time he is at work and sleeping. So he will keep up with your "study" progress and blow you away with in game skills and levels.
So really this system you are prompting is not going to solve the issue you are talking about. its funny how you cannot see this.
You don't understand the system. It is not ment to keep 2 players completely equal if they start at the same time. It is ment to keep the dedicated casual person on par with the people that come well after him. For example a casual person that has played for 2 years will be equal in power to the hardcore raider that has played for 6 months 10 hours a day.
Theres only one thing I dont understand...talking about effort. Why the hell are you whining about a $15/Month Sub, when you work effortively by investing money on stocks, market, etc.
Maybe you are just lazy and dont want to make an effort on your job, and dont want to make an effort to win anything.
Another thing I dont get is.... why the F are wasting your ´precious´ little time on this forum and do something more productive than posting retarded topics. Go and make the big bucks!!!
BOTTOM LINE: get to work and get enough money so you can afford $15/Month subscription. You said you work ahrd....should not be a problem
You contradict yourself.
Who is more stupid? You posting this topic, or me answering on it?
Sorry if I insulted you...just trying to help againts this counterproductive topic.
I don't feel the "need" to do anything; I'm not playing any MMOG right now. It's not a need. I'd like to play a game where my character's advancement in an MMO is not tied to "how much time I have to play", but is entirely based on my strategy for advancing him her, and such advancement would be equal to what any other player can do. I"m not saying it's better for everyone, or that everyone would enjoy it, or that all the games out there that currently favor powergamers/raiders should be terminated. As it is, I have my game - Alganon. I promise not to bring my offline-advanced Alaganon character into your game and ruin it for you, okay?
These two don't seem to really match up.
As I understand it, Alganon lets you skill or level up just for paying the monthly subscription.
How is this entirely based on strategy?
"Level up" is the wrong conception. Alganon has many different things you can set your character to study, including different combat techniques, crafting and gathering skills, etc. You can only set your character to study one thing at a time. The strategy comes in deciding what to study on. Swordplay, stregth, ice spells, fire, agility, some particular aspect of blacksmithing, some particular kind of gathering. These are things you can't get by going in and spending 18hrs a day banging keys.
The powergamer's toon general level might go up a lot faster, and be stronger than my character in the short run, but I'll be acquiring - slowly but surely - advantages not available outside of the study system - such as increases to base stats and access to combat abilities the non-studyer won't be able to achieve without having invested the same amount of study-time. Also, whatever loot is available in a raid scenario, will have an alternative means of distribution through studying thing like lore and crafting and acquiring quests via that study.
I won't be able to generally just level the character up via offline study; I'll have access to a broader development of my character's abilities, professions and opportunities in the game if I study, and I can study 24/7. They are going to implement a study management system so you can tell your character what to study and for how long while you are away.
So I log on to Ten Ton Hammer, read a walk through, set the "studies " for a good character build and then pay the sub fee adn wait?
Doesn't that mean instead of "banging the keys" in other words actually putting in the effort for character development, doing the quests, killing the mobs, you're just PAYING For it?
Why have it go per month? WHy not just pay for whatever skills you want upfront on day one?
I want a character skill level 30 in crafting, and skill level 50 in sword fighting. Here's 75 dollars. Thanks.
So I log on to Ten Ton Hammer, read a walk through, set the "studies " for a good character build and then pay the sub fee adn wait? Doesn't that mean instead of "banging the keys" in other words actually putting in the effort for character development, doing the quests, killing the mobs, you're just PAYING For it? Why have it go per month? WHy not just pay for whatever skills you want upfront on day one? I want a character skill level 30 in crafting, and skill level 50 in sword fighting. Here's 75 dollars. Thanks.
The study system doesn't work like that. It doesn't skill you up just makes you more potent. Like you could study how to use a sword and it would make you better at it but you still actually need to use it.
So I log on to Ten Ton Hammer, read a walk through, set the "studies " for a good character build and then pay the sub fee adn wait? Doesn't that mean instead of "banging the keys" in other words actually putting in the effort for character development, doing the quests, killing the mobs, you're just PAYING For it? Why have it go per month? WHy not just pay for whatever skills you want upfront on day one? I want a character skill level 30 in crafting, and skill level 50 in sword fighting. Here's 75 dollars. Thanks.
The study system doesn't work like that. It doesn't skill you up just makes you more potent. Like you could study how to use a sword and it would make you better at it but you still actually need to use it.
Which would be right back to "banging on the keyboard" which the OP says is bad.
The system you are talking about will not help you not be a 2nd or 3rd rate character because the smart hardcore gamer will play the game 8 hours a day and study the time he is at work and sleeping. So he will keep up with your "study" progress and blow you away with in game skills and levels.
So really this system you are prompting is not going to solve the issue you are talking about. its funny how you cannot see this.
You don't understand the system. It is not ment to keep 2 players completely equal if they start at the same time. It is ment to keep the dedicated casual person on par with the people that come well after him. For example a casual person that has played for 2 years will be equal in power to the hardcore raider that has played for 6 months 10 hours a day.
Still does not fix the issue the OP is talking about in his first post. he wants to be able to keep up with the hardcore players that put in tons of time..... This system will not allow you to do that. It will allow the casual gamer to advance but at a much slow pace then the hardcore gamer. Sounds like every MMO game on the market right now.
This system will only make it worst, the hardcore player will put in his 8 hour day, then setup his "studies" while he is at work or sleeping, which will allow him to advance even further from the casuals. This system will make the OP feel even worst then the current games.
Its not like the Hardcore gamer is not going to use the off line "study" system. He will use it and then he will also advance in game. This alone ruins the whole point of the system. Its funny that you guys cannot see this and are prompting it as being a good thing for casuals.
Either way, the hardcore gamer will still always behead of the casual gamer. That is the simple fact of life. Someone is always better then you and someone is always worst then you. That is part of life. That is something that people need to learn and live with.
There are only 24 hours in a day. You can only invest your character in Alganon in any particular activity 24 hrs one day, whether it is mostly online or offline time. How one distributes that time affects what can be accomplished/gained by any character. It doesn't promise that everyone will be an equal toon in all regards, it just promises that you can advance various characteristics of your toon an equal amount of time as anyone else playing the game.
I don't think that the argument "all MMOG's should be hard and require job-like commitments of time and effort to excel in" is one that needs to be seriously addressed.
Which would be right back to "banging on the keyboard" which the OP says is bad.
Nope. I didn't say it was bad. I said, nothing wrong with a game that offers an alternative to hours and hours a week of "banging the keyboard" as ameans of advancing one's character in the game.
The system you are talking about will not help you not be a 2nd or 3rd rate character because the smart hardcore gamer will play the game 8 hours a day and study the time he is at work and sleeping. So he will keep up with your "study" progress and blow you away with in game skills and levels.
So really this system you are prompting is not going to solve the issue you are talking about. its funny how you cannot see this.
You don't understand the system. It is not ment to keep 2 players completely equal if they start at the same time. It is ment to keep the dedicated casual person on par with the people that come well after him. For example a casual person that has played for 2 years will be equal in power to the hardcore raider that has played for 6 months 10 hours a day.
Still does not fix the issue the OP is talking about in his first post. he wants to be able to keep up with the hardcore players that put in tons of time..... This system will not allow you to do that. It will allow the casual gamer to advance but at a much slow pace then the hardcore gamer. Sounds like every MMO game on the market right now.
This system will only make it worst, the hardcore player will put in his 8 hour day, then setup his "studies" while he is at work or sleeping, which will allow him to advance even further from the casuals. This system will make the OP feel even worst then the current games.
Its not like the Hardcore gamer is not going to use the off line "study" system. He will use it and then he will also advance in game. This alone ruins the whole point of the system. Its funny that you guys cannot see this and are prompting it as being a good thing for casuals.
Either way, the hardcore gamer will still always behead of the casual gamer. That is the simple fact of life. Someone is always better then you and someone is always worst then you. That is part of life. That is something that people need to learn and live with.
What the OP wants is moot. What this system does is give the casual player a way to continue advancing their character at end game if they can't raid. What it does do is give the dedicated casual person a leg up over the hardcore players that come and go.
So I log on to Ten Ton Hammer, read a walk through, set the "studies " for a good character build and then pay the sub fee adn wait? Doesn't that mean instead of "banging the keys" in other words actually putting in the effort for character development, doing the quests, killing the mobs, you're just PAYING For it? Why have it go per month? WHy not just pay for whatever skills you want upfront on day one? I want a character skill level 30 in crafting, and skill level 50 in sword fighting. Here's 75 dollars. Thanks.
The study system doesn't work like that. It doesn't skill you up just makes you more potent. Like you could study how to use a sword and it would make you better at it but you still actually need to use it.
Which would be right back to "banging on the keyboard" which the OP says is bad.
I don't care what the OP wants or doesn't want. Simply stating facts. The study system does not play your character for you.
Comments
I don't get why people are complaining so much about this.
From what I can see, the OP isn't saying all MMOs should cater to him, just that he's looking for one that does. And if he finds one that makes him happy then great.
Personally I would not like the type of game he's looking for, but why shouldn't there be one like that if there is an audience for it? If that's the kind of game you want, then join up. If it's not, then don't.
No reason to get all pissy because 1 game doesn't fit the mold I'm personally looking for.
The game I'm going to be playing this way is in development, called Alganon. I'll be able to keep up with any "hardcore" gamers by setting my character to study while I"m offline.
So, I don't need to "get over it". But thanks anyway.
Ah, the voice of reason! Exactly. You'd think I was trying to take their binky from them.
I don't feel the "need" to do anything; I'm not playing any MMOG right now. It's not a need. I'd like to play a game where my character's advancement in an MMO is not tied to "how much time I have to play", but is entirely based on my strategy for advancing him her, and such advancement would be equal to what any other player can do. I"m not saying it's better for everyone, or that everyone would enjoy it, or that all the games out there that currently favor powergamers/raiders should be terminated.
As it is, I have my game - Alganon. I promise not to bring my offline-advanced Alaganon character into your game and ruin it for you, okay?
These two don't seem to really match up.
As I understand it, Alganon lets you skill or level up just for paying the monthly subscription.
How is this entirely based on strategy?
Does anyone actually read the OP's posts before jumping to conclusion? You all think that he wants a single player game after he said multiple times that he does not, or that he wants an easy-button that gets him to the end of the game with all the best gear.
Clearly, this is not what he is asking for. He is looking for a game where skill and long term strategy, can outweigh, or at least balance out, to endless hours spend in dungeons. I don't really see any problem with this time of game. Like many people, I don't have much time to play MMO's, but I would still like to play them and enjoy the full game. Obviously a lot of people here seem to think that time invested should be the only key to success. If you don't like the time of game he is suggesting, I suggest that you don't play it. It's really that simple.
The game I'm going to be playing this way is in development, called Alganon. I'll be able to keep up with any "hardcore" gamers by setting my character to study while I"m offline.
So, I don't need to "get over it". But thanks anyway.
Really? Do you think the offline skill training will level the playing field and make you equal? Time to go back to my earlier EVE example.
In EVE there is offline training and it sort of equalizes things over the long haul, but there are some qualifiers.
First, while everyone can be competitive, we can't all do it at the same time. When you first start out, you fly a small number of ships well. As time progresses, you'll fly more ships well. These ships can be competitive with any long term veteran, however, that said, you will never fly as many ships as the veteran. Not that you need to, but if you think being able to fly every ship is a factor of equality, then you'll feel ripped off by EVE's design.
Alganon may work the same way, unless there's a cap on the skills that every player will reach in a short amount of time.
Another factor, skills / levels are not the only factor in character strength. Gear and wealth usually play a big factor, and this is really true in EVE.
You might be able to train every skill in EVE off line, but you have to pay ISK for them, and some are quite expensive. (I just bought one for 55M ISK, and there are some worth far more).
If you don't play enough to earn the ISK you need to train up these skills and then buy and fit such a ship, you'll still feel like a 2nd class gamer.
Alganon probably won't be much different. Won't do you a bit of good to have level 50 (or skill level 100) the same as me if I can play far more time than you and be carrying the "Legendary Sword of Whooparse" that I got by running some epic dungeon 8 hours a day for a month.
WOW and other gear centric games (and most MMORPG's are gear centic) still cater to those who can spend a lot of time earning said great gear.
I can't believe that Alganon's going to make it so there's not disparity in player gear, otherwise players would have nothing to shoot for.
One great equalizer in EVE is selling time cards for ISK, then you can train your skills and have the money to pay for them. Or you can buy gold from farmers in other games. Either way, you try to level your disadvantage.
And yet, even with that, you are a 2nd class player. Why? Because of the third and greatest factor, player skill.
Yep, its true, if you don't play regularly, you will be less skilled at your character than other folks. Even with terrific gear, you are still going to be destroyed by a great player. I should know, I'm not a great player, and even with really well equipped ships and high skills, people with more actual gaming skill beat the tar out of me. (I compensate by always bringing better skilled friends to help me)
So no matter how much you strive for a level playing field, no matter what Alganon or any other game tries to do, unless you have some natural talent, and plenty of time to practice, expect to be a 2nd class citizen in an MMO.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In my opinion, you are too concerned with how other players view your character. Who cares if you are 2nd rate with 3rd rate gear? Those concepts shouldn't even exist if you are having fun playing the game. If the only fun part of a multiplayer game is trying to keep up with everyone else, coveting their gear and stuff, then I honestly feel sorry for you. Play the game at your own pace and say to hell with what anyone else thinks about your gear.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Alganon has some great potential.
I can't wait to see how it all comes together. Going away from this you HAVE to sit at your computer for hours straight to do any meaningful (loot whoring) in end game is such a piss poor design.
Because this is how the MMO genre is going. Making it easier and easier to get the rewards. It is ruining the genre that I love playing.
I am not pissed about the game, I am pissed that this person thinks that this is a good idea. It is not a good idea, it just takes away the point of playing games. You can advance while not playing? What is the point of even playing a game then?
Why shouldn't I have a game for my playstyle? No games cater to hardcore players anymore, its all instant gradification. Easy rewards, easy gameplay. That is what the genre is now. I miss my days in EQ1. I am back playing it and even EQ1 has dumbed down the gameplay. It is the new thing to do. Make the games stupid proof and that is what is pissing me off.
Sooner or Later
Guys, seriously...wasn't the OP simply advertising Alganon with this thread? I thought it was pretty obvious anyways.
See this is the major problem. NOBODY IS SAYING THAT TIME INVESTED SHOULD BE THE MAIN KEY. What we are saying is that if you want the rewards you should have to put in the effort. This getting shit for free is getting old, it is ruining the genre and the world.
Look at the little league shit now. Everyone gets a trophy for playing, its stupid, it does not teach kids anything good. Same with gaming, Everyone gets to be max level with the great gear now with no effort.
EFFORT does not EQUAL TIME. Get that though your head. Effort does not equal time.
Basicly the OP is asking to be able to keep up with gamers that have more time to invest into the game, that is simply asking for a free hand out. Again a player that puts in the time and effort to advance his character should have better rewards then a player that does not put in the time and effort. Its that simple.
The whole Risk vs Reward system is dead and that is wrong. That is the best system for MMOs. The more you risk the better the rewards. The more effort you put in the more you get out. This instant gradification system is screwing the players that want to have a challenge in there games. What game has any challenge to it anymore. Everything is on easy mode, no thinking involved.
Sooner or Later
These two don't seem to really match up.
As I understand it, Alganon lets you skill or level up just for paying the monthly subscription.
How is this entirely based on strategy?
"Level up" is the wrong conception. Alganon has many different things you can set your character to study, including different combat techniques, crafting and gathering skills, etc. You can only set your character to study one thing at a time. The strategy comes in deciding what to study on. Swordplay, stregth, ice spells, fire, agility, some particular aspect of blacksmithing, some particular kind of gathering. These are things you can't get by going in and spending 18hrs a day banging keys.
The powergamer's toon general level might go up a lot faster, and be stronger than my character in the short run, but I'll be acquiring - slowly but surely - advantages not available outside of the study system - such as increases to base stats and access to combat abilities the non-studyer won't be able to achieve without having invested the same amount of study-time. Also, whatever loot is available in a raid scenario, will have an alternative means of distribution through studying thing like lore and crafting and acquiring quests via that study.
I won't be able to generally just level the character up via offline study; I'll have access to a broader development of my character's abilities, professions and opportunities in the game if I study, and I can study 24/7. They are going to implement a study management system so you can tell your character what to study and for how long while you are away.
These two don't seem to really match up.
As I understand it, Alganon lets you skill or level up just for paying the monthly subscription.
How is this entirely based on strategy?
"Level up" is the wrong conception. Alganon has many different things you can set your character to study, including different combat techniques, crafting and gathering skills, etc. You can only set your character to study one thing at a time. The strategy comes in deciding what to study on. Swordplay, stregth, ice spells, fire, agility, some particular aspect of blacksmithing, some particular kind of gathering. These are things you can't get by going in and spending 18hrs a day banging keys.
The powergamer's toon general level might go up a lot faster, and be stronger than my character in the short run, but I'll be acquiring - slowly but surely - advantages not available outside of the study system - such as increases to base stats and access to combat abilities the non-studyer won't be able to achieve without having invested the same amount of study-time. Also, whatever loot is available in a raid scenario, will have an alternative means of distribution through studying thing like lore and crafting and acquiring quests via that study.
I won't be able to generally just level the character up via offline study; I'll have access to a broader development of my character's abilities, professions and opportunities in the game if I study, and I can study 24/7. They are going to implement a study management system so you can tell your character what to study and for how long while you are away.
The system you are talking about will not help you not be a 2nd or 3rd rate character because the smart hardcore gamer will play the game 8 hours a day and study the time he is at work and sleeping. So he will keep up with your "study" progress and blow you away with in game skills and levels.
So really this system you are prompting is not going to solve the issue you are talking about. its funny how you cannot see this.
Sooner or Later
The system you are talking about will not help you not be a 2nd or 3rd rate character because the smart hardcore gamer will play the game 8 hours a day and study the time he is at work and sleeping. So he will keep up with your "study" progress and blow you away with in game skills and levels.
So really this system you are prompting is not going to solve the issue you are talking about. its funny how you cannot see this.
You don't understand the system. It is not ment to keep 2 players completely equal if they start at the same time. It is ment to keep the dedicated casual person on par with the people that come well after him. For example a casual person that has played for 2 years will be equal in power to the hardcore raider that has played for 6 months 10 hours a day.
Theres only one thing I dont understand...talking about effort. Why the hell are you whining about a $15/Month Sub, when you work effortively by investing money on stocks, market, etc.
Maybe you are just lazy and dont want to make an effort on your job, and dont want to make an effort to win anything.
Another thing I dont get is.... why the F are wasting your ´precious´ little time on this forum and do something more productive than posting retarded topics. Go and make the big bucks!!!
BOTTOM LINE: get to work and get enough money so you can afford $15/Month subscription. You said you work ahrd....should not be a problem
You contradict yourself.
Who is more stupid? You posting this topic, or me answering on it?
Sorry if I insulted you...just trying to help againts this counterproductive topic.
These two don't seem to really match up.
As I understand it, Alganon lets you skill or level up just for paying the monthly subscription.
How is this entirely based on strategy?
"Level up" is the wrong conception. Alganon has many different things you can set your character to study, including different combat techniques, crafting and gathering skills, etc. You can only set your character to study one thing at a time. The strategy comes in deciding what to study on. Swordplay, stregth, ice spells, fire, agility, some particular aspect of blacksmithing, some particular kind of gathering. These are things you can't get by going in and spending 18hrs a day banging keys.
The powergamer's toon general level might go up a lot faster, and be stronger than my character in the short run, but I'll be acquiring - slowly but surely - advantages not available outside of the study system - such as increases to base stats and access to combat abilities the non-studyer won't be able to achieve without having invested the same amount of study-time. Also, whatever loot is available in a raid scenario, will have an alternative means of distribution through studying thing like lore and crafting and acquiring quests via that study.
I won't be able to generally just level the character up via offline study; I'll have access to a broader development of my character's abilities, professions and opportunities in the game if I study, and I can study 24/7. They are going to implement a study management system so you can tell your character what to study and for how long while you are away.
So I log on to Ten Ton Hammer, read a walk through, set the "studies " for a good character build and then pay the sub fee adn wait?
Doesn't that mean instead of "banging the keys" in other words actually putting in the effort for character development, doing the quests, killing the mobs, you're just PAYING For it?
Why have it go per month? WHy not just pay for whatever skills you want upfront on day one?
I want a character skill level 30 in crafting, and skill level 50 in sword fighting. Here's 75 dollars. Thanks.
The study system doesn't work like that. It doesn't skill you up just makes you more potent. Like you could study how to use a sword and it would make you better at it but you still actually need to use it.
The study system doesn't work like that. It doesn't skill you up just makes you more potent. Like you could study how to use a sword and it would make you better at it but you still actually need to use it.
Which would be right back to "banging on the keyboard" which the OP says is bad.
The system you are talking about will not help you not be a 2nd or 3rd rate character because the smart hardcore gamer will play the game 8 hours a day and study the time he is at work and sleeping. So he will keep up with your "study" progress and blow you away with in game skills and levels.
So really this system you are prompting is not going to solve the issue you are talking about. its funny how you cannot see this.
You don't understand the system. It is not ment to keep 2 players completely equal if they start at the same time. It is ment to keep the dedicated casual person on par with the people that come well after him. For example a casual person that has played for 2 years will be equal in power to the hardcore raider that has played for 6 months 10 hours a day.
Still does not fix the issue the OP is talking about in his first post. he wants to be able to keep up with the hardcore players that put in tons of time..... This system will not allow you to do that. It will allow the casual gamer to advance but at a much slow pace then the hardcore gamer. Sounds like every MMO game on the market right now.
This system will only make it worst, the hardcore player will put in his 8 hour day, then setup his "studies" while he is at work or sleeping, which will allow him to advance even further from the casuals. This system will make the OP feel even worst then the current games.
Its not like the Hardcore gamer is not going to use the off line "study" system. He will use it and then he will also advance in game. This alone ruins the whole point of the system. Its funny that you guys cannot see this and are prompting it as being a good thing for casuals.
Either way, the hardcore gamer will still always behead of the casual gamer. That is the simple fact of life. Someone is always better then you and someone is always worst then you. That is part of life. That is something that people need to learn and live with.
Sooner or Later
AND I REPEAT.
END THIS RETARDED POST....
There are only 24 hours in a day. You can only invest your character in Alganon in any particular activity 24 hrs one day, whether it is mostly online or offline time. How one distributes that time affects what can be accomplished/gained by any character. It doesn't promise that everyone will be an equal toon in all regards, it just promises that you can advance various characteristics of your toon an equal amount of time as anyone else playing the game.
I don't think that the argument "all MMOG's should be hard and require job-like commitments of time and effort to excel in" is one that needs to be seriously addressed.
Nope. I didn't say it was bad. I said, nothing wrong with a game that offers an alternative to hours and hours a week of "banging the keyboard" as ameans of advancing one's character in the game.
The system you are talking about will not help you not be a 2nd or 3rd rate character because the smart hardcore gamer will play the game 8 hours a day and study the time he is at work and sleeping. So he will keep up with your "study" progress and blow you away with in game skills and levels.
So really this system you are prompting is not going to solve the issue you are talking about. its funny how you cannot see this.
You don't understand the system. It is not ment to keep 2 players completely equal if they start at the same time. It is ment to keep the dedicated casual person on par with the people that come well after him. For example a casual person that has played for 2 years will be equal in power to the hardcore raider that has played for 6 months 10 hours a day.
Still does not fix the issue the OP is talking about in his first post. he wants to be able to keep up with the hardcore players that put in tons of time..... This system will not allow you to do that. It will allow the casual gamer to advance but at a much slow pace then the hardcore gamer. Sounds like every MMO game on the market right now.
This system will only make it worst, the hardcore player will put in his 8 hour day, then setup his "studies" while he is at work or sleeping, which will allow him to advance even further from the casuals. This system will make the OP feel even worst then the current games.
Its not like the Hardcore gamer is not going to use the off line "study" system. He will use it and then he will also advance in game. This alone ruins the whole point of the system. Its funny that you guys cannot see this and are prompting it as being a good thing for casuals.
Either way, the hardcore gamer will still always behead of the casual gamer. That is the simple fact of life. Someone is always better then you and someone is always worst then you. That is part of life. That is something that people need to learn and live with.
What the OP wants is moot. What this system does is give the casual player a way to continue advancing their character at end game if they can't raid. What it does do is give the dedicated casual person a leg up over the hardcore players that come and go.
The study system doesn't work like that. It doesn't skill you up just makes you more potent. Like you could study how to use a sword and it would make you better at it but you still actually need to use it.
Which would be right back to "banging on the keyboard" which the OP says is bad.
I don't care what the OP wants or doesn't want. Simply stating facts. The study system does not play your character for you.