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Anyone else feel like something is missing from MMO's these days?
RavenKirk
Member Posts: 9
I notice this nice little article over at www.homelessgamers.com
For those to lazy to read, it basically tells a little story about UO, goes into detail on some player driven content. More or less a guy ripped another guy off, and the guy who got screwed over spent a month or two infiltrating the guys guild, getting to know him on another toon,a nd then finally ripping him off.
To me, this is the main thing that seems to be missing from MMO's these day. Any form of player driven content. Im not exactly talking about scammers and what not, or rp events... Im just talking any form of content that doesnt simply consist of bob beating ted because teds an orc and bobs an elf, and elfs and orcs hate each other.
Back in the day (guess Im showing my age) conflict was usually for a reason, granted there was always some form of trivial conflict, but just player interaction that led to content like whats mentioned in that story seems to have vanished, and the only way to get it now a days is with a Single player game on a console.
I just think we have lost something due to this... its become rather obvious that most devs cant seem to make a game to keep most of us happy for any length of time, and I think thats mainly due to us not creating it ourselves.
Anyways, for those of you with an attention span read the article, and let me know if you agree or not. I think the guy has some good points.
Comments
Heh Homeless Gamers, cool concept. Good article too
DAoC - RIP
Heh Homeless Gamers, cool concept. Good article too
bah! No thoughts?
I'm not a big poster. Just exceptionally bored and that article hit a nerve, so figured i'd bump it.
DAoC - RIP
it makes me want to reactivate some old games...but Im sure that they wouldnt be as fun today as they were then due to some changes and lack of players.
It's really not missing from MMOs. You can find plenty of it in ATITD, EVE and several other MMOs. The big reason it isn't in most mainstream MMOs is because meaningful player actions are only possible in an arena where consequence and risk of loss are present.
If you liked that UO story, you'd probably love this one from EVE.
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oh another nice article!
I'd love more of these!
The games are more goal orientated, not journey orientated, people trying to get something that has a perceived value, mostly because others have it, or it is said to be uber.
The financiers of games are goal orientated, wanting the maximum return on profits, by the most amount of players, not considering the journey of possible lesser returns on niche games that might cater to smaller markets like players that want immersion and community.
Maybe some people with limited resources should get together, find a free source graphics engine, find a text base mudd that is loaded with depth and interdependency between characters, find a theme that is not done. Mash them together not for the end goal of a ton of money, but because it would be a blast to accomplish that kind of quest
Here's my idea for a world, add building of houses, or castles, or villages, like some games do. But make the world like water world where you can float your property around
All areas are interlocking floating areas, where even the roads and areas can change as dredgers pull up new ground to create new floating areas. And players or GM,s float there areas around 
Also the cost of pipes for band width could be alleviated by a complex system of load sharing on players, or even irc channels. That would be fund to envision.
Not my cup of tea. I ditched UO the day EQ came out precisely because this kind of behavior is possible. And chopping wood or mining ore as the PRIMARY advancement path is VERY boring (or casting the same spell again and again).
UO is a flawed and boring game. There is a reason why EQ is way more popular (which it also has its problems).
Here's on about a very successful drug smuggler.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
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It's seems to me...that MMO's have gotten so very corporate...and big budget.The result ......variations on vanilla ,is how games are made.They copy the gameplay of succesful games. with one variation to allowing them to say "we're different" . FYI to the devs...."the dogs don't like the dog food " .
Maybe its just me but i really do not like the hype and then on release day for several months after your paying to beta test a game that for some strange reason did not have everything they were saying just prior to release but will soon be put in the next patch or the next patch or the next patch well were working really hard to implyment these fixes. ect. ect. ect.
MAGA
Since you have seen, from many MMOs over the past decade, that this is the case, will you continue to buy MMOs at release or will you wait a few months before considering a purchase?
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Since you have seen, from many MMOs over the past decade, that this is the case, will you continue to buy MMOs at release or will you wait a few months before considering a purchase?
that right there is the big question.
See the sad thing about most of us mmo fanatics, is we are willing to pick up a game on launch day simply because we are so bored or burned out oft he previous game that we are desperate for something new.
I know WAR and AOC last year I purchased, knowing they were flawed, with just a hope that they would be turned into something enjoyable. Both games were entertaining for about 2 months till end game was hit, and after that it was a pretty steady decline.
Thats more or less where I came up with the idea for homeless gamers... Gamers that love mmo's and really want to be playing them, but cant seem to find one to stick with for any good period of time, wandering from game to game, hoping one catches their eyes.
Seems gone are the days of playing a MMO for years, and we are now down to playing for weeks / months. Its a massive change, and hopefully gets fixed by one of the devs coming up soon.
Each game keeps getting sold as the answer to what we are looking for, and then surprisingly enough fails to provide. Here's hoping this years releases are better.
Yep, this is exactly true. We arent looking for copy and paste game dev. We want new and innovative ideas. We want people that arent afraid to think outside the box.
Granted thinking outside the box doesnt guarantee you a success... but judging from past releases, copy and paste is running out of money to milk as well.
You're not telling devs what you want, though. There are few requests more vague and more subjective than asking for "more immersion" and "more innovation."
Adding a bunch of 'innovative' features doesn't guarantee players will like the game. If nothing else, it will almost guarantee that you will have a lot of players saying that the devs fixed what wasn't broken.
When you actually define what you want you will see why it's such a tall order to fill. Your idea of immersive environment will greatly differ from the next person's... and the next person's... and the next one. The same with 'innovation'.
Asking devs to 'think outside the box' or 'be more innovative' is as useful as asking them to 'make a game that I like.'
Well, what do you like? What do you want changed about the current fare of MMOs? What existing MMOs have features you'd like to see added to a new one. What features don't you like and why?
Now, find 20,000 people that agree on the same list. You're on your way to something that might work.
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Thats specifically why I havent told them exactly what I want, cause what I want may not be what others like, however, I'd like to move back towards a string of niche games.
Look at eve and darkfall.
They dont appeal to the masses by any means, but each of those is a niche game, that has a very excited player base. Now darkfall may not be the best example, but Im a bit biased against them so I wont throw out my input, however, no one can deny that eve is a success.
If we were to get 10 more games that are outside the box like eve, we'd have niches being filled. So instead of the mega walmart of mmo's like wow, we'd have the mmo community broken up into 200k or 400k chunks playing games that are specifically targeted to one demographic, not desperately trying to hit all demographics and somehow failing to hit any of them well.
I want a master of one or two things, not a jack of all trades mmo.
Personally, I enjoy sandbox games, that cater more to small groups and individuals than to mass zerging armys. Skill systems, player run enforcement, semi harsh death penalties, player run economy, player crafted items, GOOD eco functionality (markets, buy and sell orders, etc)
I just described a lot of what eve has to offer... however, due to the way eve is setup it doesnt always appeal to me. Mainly the way they do skills, and the way the combat / ship interface. Im hoping Jumpgate evo or Blackwatch(sp) are the answer to what Im looking for.... but you never know.
I will continue to buy them and get pissed then bitch here or other forums im on. Im an honnest kinda guy you can thank the Navy for that. If i do not like something i will say so, and in the same token if im wrong i will stand up and take my lickings. And keep on ticken. You must know you have to convience me im wrong and im a very old Dog ! who's attention span is EL Short.
MAGA
The only thing I would add to this - is that I agree that community involvement is the key.
In all honesty, the games I have played the longest have always been because I manage to find a great group of people to play the game with. This helps make the game much more enjoyable, and of the more recent games I have not found that same community spirit. Much more interest in being first to hit level cap and less about having fun.
One theory I have is that back in the day, the earlier MMO's involved a longer learning curve, and there weren't published guides, leveling services, in game cash, rare loot guides etc... all available in the first two weeks of launch. I find that the more recent games seem have you up to level 10 in the first couple of hours, level 15-20 by the end of 2 or 3 days gaming (or less) and you're already half way to level cap. I don't remember leveling that fast, or maybe I'm just getting old...
My answer is in my name, and is why I still play AC to this day.
All newer MMOs are the same, and they're all easier then the previous one. I hate the model of, ok there's levels but really they're for show, in a couple weeks time you can be max level and we'll make all the content really grindy max level content.
I prefer lots of levels, tough levels and takes a long time to get to the finish. No company will make those games anymore.
Feels like the MMO market is becoming so oversaturated with product theses days that companies are just churning out whatever crap they can to cash in on it and/or ride off of WoW's lightweight mass appeal. Feels like the quality, originality and consumer-mindedness is missing as well.
I agree with Turnalis, the only thing that has ever kept me involved in any MMO (Asheron's Call-3 years, SWG-2+ years, LotRO 2 years and counting) is the community I play with...not the overall game community itself (which is still an important factor) but the close group of people of guild I play with. If it wasn't for a good group of folks to play with consistently I wouldn't bother with MMO's.
Because a playerbase of nine isn't really profitable for an MMO.
I'm kidding!!!
Seriosuly, though, what you present is a player type that is playing to 'finish' an MMO and wants it to be a long time to get there. Once you are there, what do you plan to do? If the target playerbase is one that's focused on working otwards the end, any side games or content outside of the progression path is going to be ignored as it gets in the way of the main goal.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Because a playerbase of nine isn't really profitable for an MMO.
I'm kidding!!!
Seriosuly, though, what you present is a player type that is playing to 'finish' an MMO and wants it to be a long time to get there. Once you are there, what do you plan to do? If the target playerbase is one that's focused on working otwards the end, any side games or content outside of the progression path is going to be ignored as it gets in the way of the main goal.
So, why not remove the end completely. Remove it as the goal. No race to the end at all, and leave it up to players to make their own "end game" obviously you need some form of progression, but we need something that isnt about progressing to x level so we can do y. Instead focus on doing y at the start, and over time expanding your options.
What's missing in todays MMOs? One word
Consequences
Consequences for mouthing off and displaying anti social behavior
Consequences for dying in PvE AND PvP
The penalties we used to have have pretty much been eliminated. People no longer care about dying since they will be ready to fight seconds later with no incident. People don't care about runnig into a PK'er. You call him a dickwad and laugh as you spawn at the cementary and continue on with your business. There is no fear no adrenaline rushes like the old days. Back then you would go as far as camp an item that will give you underwater breathing just so you would have a hiding spot to go afk for 5 minutes in. today you just flip the pk'er the finger and let him kill you so you can respawn closer to your destination
Because a playerbase of nine isn't really profitable for an MMO.
I'm kidding!!!
Seriosuly, though, what you present is a player type that is playing to 'finish' an MMO and wants it to be a long time to get there. Once you are there, what do you plan to do? If the target playerbase is one that's focused on working otwards the end, any side games or content outside of the progression path is going to be ignored as it gets in the way of the main goal.
Joking aside there is a reason AC is approaching it's 10th anniversary this year and is still running, it was and is a profitable type of game.
End game can be a lot of things, it can be pvping in instances for rank. It can be collecting all the titles in the game, it can be mini games, it could be political and let you have input into how different in game cities/areas are run.
End game doesn't have to ever be THE game, meaning I personally don't feel end game is where you get all your gear and content. Because if it's done that way why not just say no levels and the entire game from the moment you step in is end game and be done with it. I would much prefer a game that admitted that and made it a leveless game and there was just the goal of getting gear/titles/rank, and I bet that model would work. But there is something to a game that does have levels and you can then get through all of those levels in less then a month that makes it feel bland and unenjoyable.
Someone else had a good point too, I prefer games that punish for death or mistakes, not because I like pain but because I like the excitement of the risk. If I try something about my level and beat it, it is way more enjoyable when there were risks with attempting that and knowing it could of gone badly. If there's no risk there's no reason not to try the most difficult paths for the best rewards, and if you fail oh well go instantly back and try again.
Just seems to me once MMOs went mainstream it brought in all these people who want it all, want it all now, and don't want to ever lose any of it or have any risk. That's what FPS games are for, you jump in and play them for a bit and jump out again. When it's an MMO I want my character to evolve, take a long time to evolve, and have many risks along the way.
Because a playerbase of nine isn't really profitable for an MMO.
I'm kidding!!!
Seriosuly, though, what you present is a player type that is playing to 'finish' an MMO and wants it to be a long time to get there. Once you are there, what do you plan to do? If the target playerbase is one that's focused on working otwards the end, any side games or content outside of the progression path is going to be ignored as it gets in the way of the main goal.
So, why not remove the end completely. Remove it as the goal. No race to the end at all, and leave it up to players to make their own "end game" obviously you need some form of progression, but we need something that isnt about progressing to x level so we can do y. Instead focus on doing y at the start, and over time expanding your options.
You're preaching to the choir. I was only responding to his stated desire of a game with a long leveling process and a cap.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
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