As someone who spent about 18 months in EVE Online, I am very hopeful for this game.
I do imagine that this and the other Sci-Fi MMOs that are coming out will severely injure EVE if CCP does not take action. They've enjoyed relatively zero competition in their genre for many years. Many players of that game cling to it so hard not because of its own qualities, but because it fills a niche that is otherwise empty - space faring MMORPG. They are foolish if they don't make some serious changes to that game soon...
That being said, it seems that the "arcade fun shootie time" may have been overdeveloped, and the players-are-important sandbox aspect underdone.
EVE is successful because it really hits home on making every player have the potential to be important to the game universe. From the lowliest hauler trying to make a few ISK to the dreaded space pirate, everyone carves out a legacy and story in EVE. This is what it should be remembered for, and its failings departed from (the terrible combat engine and click to fly and skill training system). I think JGE has departed from the bad parts, but, also left behind the good parts, keeping only: "fly around and shoot stuff in space", which matches everything from Galaga to Wing Commander to Star Wars, all of which can be awesome and terrible if viewed through the wrong lens.
So in short, God I'm Glad to be able to get my space-faring on outside of EVE (where I'm a billionaire with no cause and no way to introduce my friends to the game and play with them immediately - since they'd have to train for a year to get to the fun part of the game), but I'm sad that in getting my space-faring on, it looks like the sandbox won't be quite as easy to build in on account of the devs trying to keep it too simple.
I guess we'll see (but I don't think I'll play EVE again). This was an awesome article filled with good information. Thank you.
Sounds like you just talked yourself back into playing again there mate.
I think Eve should be remembered for the game that permitted it's own developers to embezzle virtual property and cash, advantage their friends and behave wholly inappropriately for months, and possibly years with practically zero come-back.
...and just to repeat, that's from someone who didn't PvP.
People will eventually carry comparisons to EVE simply because both are sci-fi MMORPGs (don't know about you but first thing I do when searching for a MMO is determining the "when" it is based), allowing you do take any role and explore a huge universe, engage in battles for one of the main factions in the game or just create your own pirate corporation.
Differences I've seen are the control system and the skill system. EVE failed when it started taking too long to develop into the area you wanted to play, and failed epically when even if you want to do only one thing it takes too long to get properly trained for it.
Anyway, I look forward this game. EVE feels like a monopoly, there is no real competition like in the Fantasy MMO P2P or F2P genre. Don't take the differences of the games too deeply, because each game is unique yet they share a same market.
A few things concern me about the game so far. The player driven economy, in the form they have it at now, will not work. There is no removal of items from the system, only repair costs, and it won't be long before the market is flooded with gear nobody wants. That is a huge issue I have right now. I don't like the over-emphasis on the nations, I wish it had a more sandbox, and squad oriented nature, like JGC did. (There will be no multi-faction squads in JGE). I'm also a bit concerned about the viability of first person/joystick control as it seems that 3rd person and mouse control will have a distinct advantage, which would kill the "sim" part of the "space sim".
Beyond that, I cannot wait for this game to come out.
What makes you think the economy is only about gear?
This is supposed to be a player driven, crafter driven economy. In the form they are planning now, it will not work. For a player driven economy to work, they need 3 things. Money injection, item turn over for all items, and money extraction. Currently, JGE has money injection and extraction, but they are missing item turnover. With no item turnover, people will not need to buy new items. If people don't buy new items, crafters won't make items, and so on and so one. It isn't a difficult concept, but ND seem to be oblivious.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
A few things concern me about the game so far. The player driven economy, in the form they have it at now, will not work. There is no removal of items from the system, only repair costs, and it won't be long before the market is flooded with gear nobody wants. That is a huge issue I have right now. I don't like the over-emphasis on the nations, I wish it had a more sandbox, and squad oriented nature, like JGC did. (There will be no multi-faction squads in JGE). I'm also a bit concerned about the viability of first person/joystick control as it seems that 3rd person and mouse control will have a distinct advantage, which would kill the "sim" part of the "space sim".
Beyond that, I cannot wait for this game to come out.
What makes you think the economy is only about gear?
This is supposed to be a player driven, crafter driven economy. In the form they are planning now, it will not work. For a player driven economy to work, they need 3 things. Money injection, item turn over for all items, and money extraction. Currently, JGE has money injection and extraction, but they are missing item turnover. With no item turnover, people will not need to buy new items. If people don't buy new items, crafters won't make items, and so on and so one. It isn't a difficult concept, but ND seem to be oblivious.
Yea this is one of the problem I had with WoW... crafting ends up being more about what it can do for you and not anyone else... with some exceptions.
I had a thought, maybe you need those items for building a station, if the station is destoried you have to rebuilt it... which mean you'll still need those items.
I play EVE, but I am looking forward to this game. EVE isnt doing to die because of JGE, CCP has no twitched based concepts on the drawing board. I do hope that the game is Complex and Player driven. Looking forward to it a great deal.
Yours in PvP Plasma, Star¤Dagger
I think you will be disappointed Dagger... knowing you.
I know my reputation for excellence proceeds me, but I am cautiously optimistic about this MMO. I am also attracted to the idea that the pilots own personal skill at piloting his craft will play a large part.
I was just reviewing this thread and wanted to say a couple more things.
1) I didn't mean to imply that I thought this game would kill EVE single-handedly. I believe this game belongs to the Senate of 3-5 Sci-Fi games that will be repeatedly stabbing EVE over the next couple of years until it's left bloodied on the floor and deposed.
2) I definitely won't be playing EVE again, and I don't even think it's worth my time to throw down ISK for free game time. The training mechanism is completely incompatible with ever having real life friends join you in-game once you've played for a long time. Most MMOs you can just roll a new toon and play with your friends. In EVE, when you do this, you are hampering your main character's progress. That's just stupid.
A few things concern me about the game so far. The player driven economy, in the form they have it at now, will not work. There is no removal of items from the system, only repair costs, and it won't be long before the market is flooded with gear nobody wants. That is a huge issue I have right now. I don't like the over-emphasis on the nations, I wish it had a more sandbox, and squad oriented nature, like JGC did. (There will be no multi-faction squads in JGE). I'm also a bit concerned about the viability of first person/joystick control as it seems that 3rd person and mouse control will have a distinct advantage, which would kill the "sim" part of the "space sim".
Beyond that, I cannot wait for this game to come out.
What makes you think the economy is only about gear?
This is supposed to be a player driven, crafter driven economy. In the form they are planning now, it will not work. For a player driven economy to work, they need 3 things. Money injection, item turn over for all items, and money extraction. Currently, JGE has money injection and extraction, but they are missing item turnover. With no item turnover, people will not need to buy new items. If people don't buy new items, crafters won't make items, and so on and so one. It isn't a difficult concept, but ND seem to be oblivious.
Again, What makes you think the economy is only about gear? They had already explained why the choose this route.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I have played every major MMO to date, and only two have had impressive, functional, fun to interface with, "playable" economies.
The first of which in recent memory would be Dark Age of Camelot... items expired over time from overuse, the quality of individual items influenced the rarity and price, and the top end items of any given slot (weapon or armor, depending on class and time period) were player-crafted and player spellcrafted items tailored to suit one's template.
The other is EVE Online, where items are actually destroyed by other players or NPCs, ships, with cargo-holds full of items and bays full of ammo, are destroyed, only to be reconstituted by the workings of other players. It gives everyone a function, collecting the pieces, mining, manufacturing, hauling, marketting, etc. This portion of EVE should at least be mimicked in some way as it is the most impressive "economy" in a video game right now... I would even venture that it's worthy of sociological study.
To discard the headway made by CCP in establishing an economy, in favor of "fun pew pew" would be a mistake that would drive away many playertypes. I am certain that some of it will be retained for JGE, but from what I've read, it sounds like items are essentially permanent, ammo is unlimited, and your inventory travels with you (I might not be accurate on that, though).
A massively multiplayer game cannot be sustained with a good combat engine alone... its horizon will be more like that of any given FPS game (3-5 years, and then fading into obscurity, revived only by sequels and expansions along the way). With a fully featured economy, meaningful PVP, a good combat system, good artwork and solid interface for doing in-game business and chat, there's no reason an MMO can't go on well beyond 5 years, healthily.
Re the original article: You had a "Comparisons" section yet flat out refused to compare with EVE Online. Only a comparison to EVE Online has meaning to me because I know EVE and I can't judge another space MMORPG without contrasting against it. Lame!
Comments
As someone who spent about 18 months in EVE Online, I am very hopeful for this game.
I do imagine that this and the other Sci-Fi MMOs that are coming out will severely injure EVE if CCP does not take action. They've enjoyed relatively zero competition in their genre for many years. Many players of that game cling to it so hard not because of its own qualities, but because it fills a niche that is otherwise empty - space faring MMORPG. They are foolish if they don't make some serious changes to that game soon...
That being said, it seems that the "arcade fun shootie time" may have been overdeveloped, and the players-are-important sandbox aspect underdone.
EVE is successful because it really hits home on making every player have the potential to be important to the game universe. From the lowliest hauler trying to make a few ISK to the dreaded space pirate, everyone carves out a legacy and story in EVE. This is what it should be remembered for, and its failings departed from (the terrible combat engine and click to fly and skill training system). I think JGE has departed from the bad parts, but, also left behind the good parts, keeping only: "fly around and shoot stuff in space", which matches everything from Galaga to Wing Commander to Star Wars, all of which can be awesome and terrible if viewed through the wrong lens.
So in short, God I'm Glad to be able to get my space-faring on outside of EVE (where I'm a billionaire with no cause and no way to introduce my friends to the game and play with them immediately - since they'd have to train for a year to get to the fun part of the game), but I'm sad that in getting my space-faring on, it looks like the sandbox won't be quite as easy to build in on account of the devs trying to keep it too simple.
I guess we'll see (but I don't think I'll play EVE again). This was an awesome article filled with good information. Thank you.
http://www.judgex.com/
Sounds like you just talked yourself back into playing again there mate.
I think Eve should be remembered for the game that permitted it's own developers to embezzle virtual property and cash, advantage their friends and behave wholly inappropriately for months, and possibly years with practically zero come-back.
...and just to repeat, that's from someone who didn't PvP.
People will eventually carry comparisons to EVE simply because both are sci-fi MMORPGs (don't know about you but first thing I do when searching for a MMO is determining the "when" it is based), allowing you do take any role and explore a huge universe, engage in battles for one of the main factions in the game or just create your own pirate corporation.
Differences I've seen are the control system and the skill system. EVE failed when it started taking too long to develop into the area you wanted to play, and failed epically when even if you want to do only one thing it takes too long to get properly trained for it.
Anyway, I look forward this game. EVE feels like a monopoly, there is no real competition like in the Fantasy MMO P2P or F2P genre. Don't take the differences of the games too deeply, because each game is unique yet they share a same market.
What makes you think the economy is only about gear?
This is supposed to be a player driven, crafter driven economy. In the form they are planning now, it will not work. For a player driven economy to work, they need 3 things. Money injection, item turn over for all items, and money extraction. Currently, JGE has money injection and extraction, but they are missing item turnover. With no item turnover, people will not need to buy new items. If people don't buy new items, crafters won't make items, and so on and so one. It isn't a difficult concept, but ND seem to be oblivious.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
What makes you think the economy is only about gear?
This is supposed to be a player driven, crafter driven economy. In the form they are planning now, it will not work. For a player driven economy to work, they need 3 things. Money injection, item turn over for all items, and money extraction. Currently, JGE has money injection and extraction, but they are missing item turnover. With no item turnover, people will not need to buy new items. If people don't buy new items, crafters won't make items, and so on and so one. It isn't a difficult concept, but ND seem to be oblivious.
Yea this is one of the problem I had with WoW... crafting ends up being more about what it can do for you and not anyone else... with some exceptions.
I had a thought, maybe you need those items for building a station, if the station is destoried you have to rebuilt it... which mean you'll still need those items.
I play EVE, but I am looking forward to this game. EVE isnt doing to die because of JGE, CCP has no twitched based concepts on the drawing board.
I do hope that the game is Complex and Player driven.
Looking forward to it a great deal.
Yours in PvP Plasma,
Star¤Dagger
I think you will be disappointed Dagger... knowing you.
-Fenix of The Romulan Star Command
I know my reputation for excellence proceeds me, but I am cautiously optimistic about this MMO. I am also attracted to the idea that the pilots own personal skill at piloting his craft will play a large part.
We shall see...
Yours in Excellence in Gaming Plasma,
Star¤Dagger
I was just reviewing this thread and wanted to say a couple more things.
1) I didn't mean to imply that I thought this game would kill EVE single-handedly. I believe this game belongs to the Senate of 3-5 Sci-Fi games that will be repeatedly stabbing EVE over the next couple of years until it's left bloodied on the floor and deposed.
2) I definitely won't be playing EVE again, and I don't even think it's worth my time to throw down ISK for free game time. The training mechanism is completely incompatible with ever having real life friends join you in-game once you've played for a long time. Most MMOs you can just roll a new toon and play with your friends. In EVE, when you do this, you are hampering your main character's progress. That's just stupid.
Anyway, back to Project Reality BF2 mod
.
http://www.judgex.com
What makes you think the economy is only about gear?
This is supposed to be a player driven, crafter driven economy. In the form they are planning now, it will not work. For a player driven economy to work, they need 3 things. Money injection, item turn over for all items, and money extraction. Currently, JGE has money injection and extraction, but they are missing item turnover. With no item turnover, people will not need to buy new items. If people don't buy new items, crafters won't make items, and so on and so one. It isn't a difficult concept, but ND seem to be oblivious.
Again, What makes you think the economy is only about gear? They had already explained why the choose this route.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Abrahmm is correct.
I have played every major MMO to date, and only two have had impressive, functional, fun to interface with, "playable" economies.
The first of which in recent memory would be Dark Age of Camelot... items expired over time from overuse, the quality of individual items influenced the rarity and price, and the top end items of any given slot (weapon or armor, depending on class and time period) were player-crafted and player spellcrafted items tailored to suit one's template.
The other is EVE Online, where items are actually destroyed by other players or NPCs, ships, with cargo-holds full of items and bays full of ammo, are destroyed, only to be reconstituted by the workings of other players. It gives everyone a function, collecting the pieces, mining, manufacturing, hauling, marketting, etc. This portion of EVE should at least be mimicked in some way as it is the most impressive "economy" in a video game right now... I would even venture that it's worthy of sociological study.
To discard the headway made by CCP in establishing an economy, in favor of "fun pew pew" would be a mistake that would drive away many playertypes. I am certain that some of it will be retained for JGE, but from what I've read, it sounds like items are essentially permanent, ammo is unlimited, and your inventory travels with you (I might not be accurate on that, though).
A massively multiplayer game cannot be sustained with a good combat engine alone... its horizon will be more like that of any given FPS game (3-5 years, and then fading into obscurity, revived only by sequels and expansions along the way). With a fully featured economy, meaningful PVP, a good combat system, good artwork and solid interface for doing in-game business and chat, there's no reason an MMO can't go on well beyond 5 years, healthily.
http://www.judgex.com/
Re the original article: You had a "Comparisons" section yet flat out refused to compare with EVE Online. Only a comparison to EVE Online has meaning to me because I know EVE and I can't judge another space MMORPG without contrasting against it. Lame!