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New Player Myth Debunked

Mopar63Mopar63 Carbondale, ILPosts: 296Member

You know I am so sick of hearing how a new player in EVE is worthless. Compared to EVERY other game on the planet a new character in EVE is a force to be feared. First we start with the other games as an example..

Using Lotro and WoW as examples can anyone tell me if it is possible in ANY WAY for a 5th level fighter to defeat a 50th level fighter? I mean any way at all. Think about it, the 5th level fighter cannot even hit a 50th level fighter much less defeat him.

Now in EVE, can a 30 day old character, for that matter a 10 day old character in ANY way defeat a 4 year old character? Yes they can. Is it easy, well no but it shouldn't be either. However there is the chance to actually do it. So if a noob character in EVE can defeat a very experiened player in EVE please tell me how in EVE the noob is useless and the same is not said about the other games?

I mentioned the myth of the noob being debunked and today I did it in my own way. EVE is just about who you can kill, it is also about can you contribute. A lot of new players fel like they have nothing to offer and so they doi not join a corp until they have more experience.

Kletus Snow is a new account I setup, he is today 4 days old. Yet today he took part in a mining operation in 0.0 space. Surrounded by characters with MUCH higher skill point totals Kletus was still a linch pin in the operation providing the hauling needed for the operation. In around 2.5 hours he alone hauled over 300K m3 of raw ore from the asteroid field and back to the base for refining.

Yeah I can hear the yells and laughs now, he hauled. Well folks news flash to a corporation or alliance on a mining operation the hauler is just as important as ANY other pilot in the op, and they relied on and had their needs met by a FOUR DAY old character.

I hear people saying all the time how tough EVE is on new pilots, how you cannot be useful in the game until you have played for months. I call BS on the lot. EVE is a game that is what you make of it. If you have imagination, drive, goals and motivation the game is amazing from day one. The game is not tough of noobs, it is tough on lazy players that want the game to hold their hand and allow them a fast route to instant success with no risk of lose.

I will be keeping a log BTW of Kletus for everyone to follow; http://snoejob.wordpress.com In it I will show how the game can be fun and rewarding by being not much else but a hauler pilot.

BTW if you want to flame my position in this post feel free, I have come to a simple realization, flames no matter how big still cannot change the facts or truth!

 

 

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Comments

  • Bruise187Bruise187 Corning, ARPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    Thats what I want to do, play EVE and be a hauler. Sounds like fun sign me up as a hauler.

    How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?

    I'm not your friend.

    I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.

  • EkibiogamiEkibiogami Clear Lake, TXPosts: 3,002Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bruise187


    Thats what I want to do, play EVE and be a hauler. Sounds like fun sign me up as a hauler.



     

    thats most of my Play time. I love it.

    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
    —Samuel Adams

  • InteritusInteritus Vancouver, BCPosts: 136Member

    I think you are missing the point though.  This works for people who know how to play the game, who have played for years. That isn't a new player. A new player is a person who enters Eve and just gets lost.  The game has a huge learning curve and unless they have someone helping them along it will take them a while to get to the point where they become useful.  I imagine a truely new player would take longer  to get to 0.0 and haul

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member

    the way we annoy you with "we cant beat xx " you annoy us even more "yes you can " giving 0 proofs or telling how

    frigate is fast  , wow, that sure advice that will make me win , none of you posted any vids of 3 days account beating half year account , or anything

     

    there is many ways i can troll your 5 lvl comparison to wow and lotro, first of if 10-30 days char, is worth 5 lvl , ,so in that comparison i can say i need over year to match expierenced eve players,

    tho i prefer this variant.. comparing eve 10-30 days play time, to 1-2 hours 5 lvl, in both wow and lotro, ( ok 3 hours if you are extremely slow , ok ill give you 4 hours if you playing mmorpg for first time ever, and using pc for second time in life ) it wont take longer than that to reach lvl 5 in any of those games,

     

    the whole fact that you oldschoolers compare your alts in already established corps, and considering you already know what and where to do is nonsense at highest lvl

     

    first off how many low lvl organized corps there are? probably not many , you either need some massive unorganized corp, which would  do some half arsed pvp , or dunno

     

    its same , if you start playing wow for example  ( at which i am good, but not playing anymore ) then you tell me, oh getting from 1 to 80 takes too long, or that that 70-80 takes too long.. and ill say that i did it in 3 days if not less, and then i can probably do it again in 2 days, cuz everything i know is faster, everything you dont is slowe, comparing yours 30 days old char, might mean 60 days for someone other ) , you could come saying  outfitting is fast and easy, sure you know where or why, or have corp that helps you ) you could probably come up with such idea as wow raiding is hard, and i would die laughting at you, cuz its so easy for me

     

    this whole comparison without giving any proof is BS 

     

    all you guys keep saying  "it can be done "

     

    DUDE YOU KNOW WHAT



    ALLIENS EXIST , AND GOD IS ACTUALLY FLYING FROG WITH A SKIRT, WAITING FOR ADOM TO KISS HIM/HER

     

    its as much truth as you current "can be done "claim

  • LordmonkusLordmonkus No, ONPosts: 808Member

    No laughing ro flaming from me. I'm glad you are showing that a new player can contribute in a meaningful way to a corp in 0.0 space. Sure it's hauling but it needs to be done and it's very easy for a new player to get into an industrial ship with some cargo expanders and they're good to go.

  • Mopar63Mopar63 Carbondale, ILPosts: 296Member

    The alt in an already established corp argument is bunk since it is not all that hard to find a corp to be a part of. Hell most corps really badly want pilots. New pilots need to just pick one that fits them.

    The arguement about the learning curve is the only one that holds the test of time, EVE does have a steep learning curve. The reason for this is the game does not hold your hand. EVE requires you to think, to plan and then execute, not stumble and bumble along. EVE has a real consequence when you goof so learning means something. I also agree you need to find a freind to help, again this is not nearly as hard as most people make it out to be. There are some HUGE groups DEDICATED to helping new pilots. Plus tons of smaller corps that will take a new pilot in and help him find his way.

    True you cannot go it alone like in other games but then again these games are about playing with other people.

    [quote]if you start playing wow for example ( at which i am good, but not playing anymore ) then you tell me, oh getting from 1 to 80 takes too long, or that that 70-80 takes too long.. and ill say that i did it in 3 days if not less, and then i can probably do it again in 2 days, cuz everything i know is faster,[/quote]

    THIS to me is the real telling factor. The ability of a player to reach higher levels faster than those that have striven for them. Other games do not reward paitence and planning just jump in and give me a big sword.

    BTW the whole attempt to change the lvel vs level arguement fails, becuase it is POSSIBLE for a day one starting character in EVE to take out a 5  year old character, show me how that id done in WoW or LOTRO? Level based systems create a strata that does not exist within a skill based system. But I tell you what find me a 25th level anything and put him against a 50th level anything, I will bet real money he cannot even hit the level 50 much less have any possibility of winning.

    Finally to the guy who thought hauling found fun, not. The point I am making is that at 4 days old I am a major part of an existing 0.0 operation, not a minor flunky. Even beginning characters can contribute from the very start if they have a desire to do so. Hell in 4 days you can make a decent tackler pilot which would be a boon for PvP operations. How about a basic EW pilot, a Crucifier needs little time to train and yet chan change the course of a battle, with only a day or toos worth of training.

    As far as your assertion that we only say it can be done, sorry I AM DOING IT! Not can but is being is what I am saying.

     

     

  • LordmonkusLordmonkus No, ONPosts: 808Member
    Originally posted by Smikis


    the way we annoy you with "we cant beat xx " you annoy us even more "yes you can " giving 0 proofs or telling how
    frigate is fast  , wow, that sure advice that will make me win , none of you posted any vids of 3 days account beating half year account , or anything
    What the hell are you even talking about here ?
    there is many ways i can troll your 5 lvl comparison to wow and lotro, first of if 10-30 days char, is worth 5 lvl , ,so in that comparison i can say i need over year to match expierenced eve players,
    Again what the hell are you saying ?
    tho i prefer this variant.. comparing eve 10-30 days play time, to 1-2 hours 5 lvl, in both wow and lotro, ( ok 3 hours if you are extremely slow , ok ill give you 4 hours if you playing mmorpg for first time ever, and using pc for second time in life ) it wont take longer than that to reach lvl 5 in any of those games,
     Huh ??
    the whole fact that you oldschoolers compare your alts in already established corps, and considering you already know what and where to do is nonsense at highest lvl
    It's a four day old character hauling. It doesn't have to be an alt of an oldschooler.
    first off how many low lvl organized corps there are? probably not many , you either need some massive unorganized corp, which would  do some half arsed pvp , or dunno
    There are plenty . You just need to look instead of whining here.
    its same , if you start playing wow for example  ( at which i am good, but not playing anymore ) then you tell me, oh getting from 1 to 80 takes too long, or that that 70-80 takes too long.. and ill say that i did it in 3 days if not less, and then i can probably do it again in 2 days, cuz everything i know is faster, everything you dont is slowe, comparing yours 30 days old char, might mean 60 days for someone other ) , you could come saying  outfitting is fast and easy, sure you know where or why, or have corp that helps you ) you could probably come up with such idea as wow raiding is hard, and i would die laughting at you, cuz its so easy for me
    Seriously man, how do you get on to this off topics personal rants ?
    this whole comparison without giving any proof is BS 
    He just gave you proof and you don't like it so you call it BS. You want proof of 2 day old characters beating older characters in 0.0 ? Here, I've done the work for you. www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp

    Sure the players who made the characters are old but the characters were not financed by the older toons. The only thing the young characters had was the player piloting experience not the sps or the isk of old players. These skills are learned through doing and the time is dependent upon the person, not the game.
     
    all you guys keep saying  "it can be done "
     
    DUDE YOU KNOW WHAT


    ALLIENS EXIST , AND GOD IS ACTUALLY FLYING FROG WITH A SKIRT, WAITING FOR ADOM TO KISS HIM/HER
     
    its as much truth as you current "can be done "claim
    When you want to be closed minded and not care what anyone says then nothing you don't want can be true. Nice attitude to live by.

     

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member

    lordmonkus if you dont get my refferences you clearly wasnt reading this forum in last 2 weeks, cuz half of my words are from this forums,

    i am closed minded? i made whole post saying how "it can be done "without  0 proof is BS , and he makes reply with

     

    ":1 days char can beat 5 years old char, show me how its done in wow , etc "

     

    its like you cant even read, i never said 1 day year old char can beat 5 years old char in wow, never claimed that its possible and never will, its you who claim it is, so i am asking for proof, and all i get, is another claim that its possible, with 0 proof once again

     

    its you who keeps saying that it can be done, proove it

     

    edit  : downloading video now, even if its good, its not exactly fair comparison, to new players and "can be done claim "

    its not like 5 years old char at 5 lvl warrior, have any advantage than 2 hours old warrior, they got both same skillset, and only things you can do better is moving, and timing skills, which doesnt take long to learn, specially if you played similar games "

     

    while in eve, for example i dont even know how to equip my ship for pvp ( well i do to some extend, but not good enough, not to mention whole scanning,probing, or which skills to train in those 2 days for pvp only)

  • LordmonkusLordmonkus No, ONPosts: 808Member

    I posted a link to a video.  www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp



    [Mod Edit]

  • Bruise187Bruise187 Corning, ARPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    Still doesn't prove anything. he says it in his post. Old player using a trial account. which means he knows a lot about the game already. where to go what to do he to see and so on.

    "The Challenge

    So, Apocrypha came out this week and I suggested to my new housemate (an old eve player) that we make a couple of trial accounts and have a bit of a mess about. With the release of the box set stating that EVE's "Award winning PVP Environment" values "Tactics over Skill points" we decided to put that to the test. "

     

    How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?

    I'm not your friend.

    I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Lordmonkus


    I posted a link to a video. Here it is again for you slow kids. www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp

     

    i edited my post saying i am downloading video, why thank you fast grandpa, ill stay kid anytime over getting old, tho i am not exactly kid anymore, which in the end suxs , careless life ftw?

  • Bruise187Bruise187 Corning, ARPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    Getting a free trail in WOW doesnt make me a new player, but in EVE I guess thats what it means to you? o0

    How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?

    I'm not your friend.

    I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.

  • Mopar63Mopar63 Carbondale, ILPosts: 296Member

    You seriosuly say you need proof, why,are you so lackin g imagination you cannot seen the scenario? 1 day old player stumbles across say a 4 year old pirate with a 200 mill bounty on his head. The priate is in a pod and has hidden at a planet while he goes on bio break. Are you saying that the one day old character in a noob ship could not kill the pod? Civilian weapons can kill a pod!

    Now try the same scenario, take your levle 10 lets say, after all one vs level 10 or something like that you said. Let him find a level 50 character that is AFK, are you telling me he can kill him? Hell he cannot even hit him!

    Now both of these are FACTUAL examples based on the KNOWN and PROVEN mechanics of the games, please tell me what needs to be proven here.

     

  • Mopar63Mopar63 Carbondale, ILPosts: 296Member

    Bruise let me see if I read your post right. You are saying the because one player has played longer and knows the game better it is wrong that he has an advantage?

    EVE is as much about tactics as it is about the ingame skills and ISK. I mean if you like a game that requires no though, just click and thats it then more power to you, but is anyone seriously arguing that the game requiring an effort to play well is a bad thing?

  • zantaxzantax Red Deer, ABPosts: 254Member

    You know I have played Eve on and off for a few years, and I have to say this is the most moronic argument almost that I have ever seen.  These guys come on saying that a new player can survive and actually take out someone who has played for a year.  I say this is bull $hit, there is no way in hell even an experianced player can start a brand new character, and in 10 days go out and kill someone who has being playing for a year.  Can they be usefull yes can they kill someone 1 on 1  that has being playing a year, the answer is an extreme NO!

    If you think you can then prove it I want to see a video of that, prove me wrong?

    Don't transfer any isk from an older account, don't transfer any ships just start the player and do it from scratch.  Travel to 0.0 and see if you can kill anyone out there within your first 10 days.

    Almost forgot to add, the comparison from wow, ac, eq...etc is all the same, a level 1 character or level 5 character CAN NOT kill a max level in any of those games either, so lets not compare.

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Mopar63


    You seriosuly say you need proof, why,are you so lackin g imagination you cannot seen the scenario? 1 day old player stumbles across say a 4 year old pirate with a 200 mill bounty on his head. The priate is in a pod and has hidden at a planet while he goes on bio break. Are you saying that the one day old character in a noob ship could not kill the pod? Civilian weapons can kill a pod!
    Now try the same scenario, take your levle 10 lets say, after all one vs level 10 or something like that you said. Let him find a level 50 character that is AFK, are you telling me he can kill him? Hell he cannot even hit him!
    Now both of these are FACTUAL examples based on the KNOWN and PROVEN mechanics of the games, please tell me what needs to be proven here.
     

     

    haha, how do you make  "lottery pod killing afk guy "into P V P

  • Bruise187Bruise187 Corning, ARPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    Nope, what he is saying is that a new player having never played is able to do that. But the video he is posting is from a player that already knows where to get what he needs and how to go about getting it. Just like a verteran of the crappy WOW game knows how to get his low level toon outfitted too. I have barley played EVE. tried a couple of times. But my chareacter just starting out is not going to beat yours cause i don't know the game that well to outfit my ship or train the right skills. I guess if I went to a web page and used the cookie cutter sheet to train enstead of playing how I want. Then it might be possible to train all the right skills the first time and not gimp him.

    Bottom line is that a totally new player is not going to beat a veteran player unless he has help geting started and told what to train.  Same goes for 99 % of all games though.

     

    How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?

    I'm not your friend.

    I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.

  • LordmonkusLordmonkus No, ONPosts: 808Member
    Originally posted by Bruise187


    Still doesn't prove anything. he says it in his post. Old player using a trial account. which means he knows a lot about the game already. where to go what to do he to see and so on.
    "The Challenge

    So, Apocrypha came out this week and I suggested to my new housemate (an old eve player) that we make a couple of trial accounts and have a bit of a mess about. With the release of the box set stating that EVE's "Award winning PVP Environment" values "Tactics over Skill points" we decided to put that to the test. "

     

     

    The point is that many people claim that you needs skillpoints and isk to compete in pvp and player skill means nothing. The guys that made that video proved that SPs and isk mean nothing and players game and tactics knowledge are more valuable in combat. These a skills a new player can be taught and learned in a couple of weeks if they want to learn.

    It has nothing to do with knowing where to go and what to do. They bought rifters and went to 0.0 and fought people.

  • LordmonkusLordmonkus No, ONPosts: 808Member
    Originally posted by zantax


    You know I have played Eve on and off for a few years, and I have to say this is the most moronic argument almost that I have ever seen.  These guys come on saying that a new player can survive and actually take out someone who has played for a year.  I say this is bull $hit, there is no way in hell even an experianced player can start a brand new character, and in 10 days go out and kill someone who has being playing for a year.  Can they be usefull yes can they kill someone 1 on 1  that has being playing a year, the answer is an extreme NO!
    If you think you can then prove it I want to see a video of that, prove me wrong?
    Don't transfer any isk from an older account, don't transfer any ships just start the player and do it from scratch.  Travel to 0.0 and see if you can kill anyone out there within your first 10 days.
    Almost forgot to add, the comparison from wow, ac, eq...etc is all the same, a level 1 character or level 5 character CAN NOT kill a max level in any of those games either, so lets not compare.

      I posted a video of 2 say old toons killing older toons.

  • Mopar63Mopar63 Carbondale, ILPosts: 296Member
    Originally posted by Smikis

    Originally posted by Mopar63


    You seriosuly say you need proof, why,are you so lackin g imagination you cannot seen the scenario? 1 day old player stumbles across say a 4 year old pirate with a 200 mill bounty on his head. The priate is in a pod and has hidden at a planet while he goes on bio break. Are you saying that the one day old character in a noob ship could not kill the pod? Civilian weapons can kill a pod!
    Now try the same scenario, take your levle 10 lets say, after all one vs level 10 or something like that you said. Let him find a level 50 character that is AFK, are you telling me he can kill him? Hell he cannot even hit him!
    Now both of these are FACTUAL examples based on the KNOWN and PROVEN mechanics of the games, please tell me what needs to be proven here.
     

     

    haha, how do you make  "lottery pod killing afk guy "into P V P



     

    Wow do you even read the posts you reply to and try to udnerstand them. I said it was POSSIBLE, nowhere did I say it was probably and it should not be! I mean seriously should a noob be able to go head to head with an experience player out of the gate?

    But that was not the arguement I was making nor is killing the only way a character can be useful as I have proven. BTW the only cash given to Kletus was enough ISK to buy some basic books he needed since he is NOT a combat pilot and most missioning is combat oriented. Since that minor, like 50K loan Kletus has done all his earning on his own and bought all his own equipment.

    Again I invite you to follow the blog as Kletus shares his experiences.

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Lordmonkus

    Originally posted by zantax


    You know I have played Eve on and off for a few years, and I have to say this is the most moronic argument almost that I have ever seen.  These guys come on saying that a new player can survive and actually take out someone who has played for a year.  I say this is bull $hit, there is no way in hell even an experianced player can start a brand new character, and in 10 days go out and kill someone who has being playing for a year.  Can they be usefull yes can they kill someone 1 on 1  that has being playing a year, the answer is an extreme NO!
    If you think you can then prove it I want to see a video of that, prove me wrong?
    Don't transfer any isk from an older account, don't transfer any ships just start the player and do it from scratch.  Travel to 0.0 and see if you can kill anyone out there within your first 10 days.
    Almost forgot to add, the comparison from wow, ac, eq...etc is all the same, a level 1 character or level 5 character CAN NOT kill a max level in any of those games either, so lets not compare.

      I posted a video of 2 say old toons killing older toons.

     

     

    just saw that video, and it shows like 7? fights, on 1 fight they cheated and back stabbed guy , on   2 fights they fought  guys they couldnt break shields, ( haulers ) , on 2 fights they got killed, on 1 fight they ran off, and on few more they killed guys around same lvl as them ,

    that video doesnt rly prove much,

     

    in 2 fights they actually killed someone stronger, in one he had 4 pirates tanking, and was cruiser i think so not exactly super, you can get cruiser in 3 days too , if you train skills to it , in another carier  probably ? said t2 drones, its pretty strange , how last 20% took them 1,5 mins and drones killed him in 5 seconds, at most, just like if he was afk for 70% of the fight, and then just noticed, "oh shit "

     

    only impresive things about that video is those rockets going 80 dmg per hit :O seems like a lot

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Mopar63

    Now in EVE, can a 30 day old character, for that matter a 10 day old character in ANY way defeat a 4 year old character? Yes they can. Is it easy



    becuase it is POSSIBLE for a day one starting character in EVE to take out a 5  year old character
     



    I mean seriously should a noob be able to go head to head with an experience player out of the gate?

     

    YES i am enjoying my self

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,532Member Uncommon

    I'l put this to rest right now.

     

    When i first got started in this game (and this was back a few years when the tutorial was about as user friendly as doorhandle connected to a live wire) I asked around abit in the newbi corp chat(this is the same one you get dumped in from the start.. not an actual corp mind you) about ways to get anywere.. It was after all a very big galaxy... I was told to go industrial and was lended enough to buy a Itty, this nive guy who lend me the money then hired me to transport ore for him.

     

    And if i could do it then.. I am sure someone can do it today....

     

     

    All in all i agree with the OP, as long as you are not going to war... a week old character can contribue... Combat... That is a completly different story and no 4 days old char is going to contribute to that scenario.

  • cosycosy ColentinaPosts: 3,304Member
    Originally posted by Smikis
    frigate is fast  , wow, that sure advice that will make me win , none of you posted any vids of 3 days account beating half year account , or anything
     

    1 www.youtube.com/watch

    2 www.youtube.com/watch

    3 www.youtube.com/watch

     

     

    BestSigEver :P
    image

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,532Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Smikis

    Originally posted by Mopar63



    becuase it is POSSIBLE for a day one starting character in EVE to take out a 5  year old character
     

     

     

    Actualy... I am pretty sure a smart player would neet just short of a week and some bussnis sense to Eq a ship good enough to take out my Hauler..

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