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EVE Online: Apocrypha Review

StraddenStradden Managing EditorHalifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

MMORPG.com EVE Online expert Andrew Wallace writes this review of the game's most recent expansion: Apocrypha.

EVE has been going from strength to strength in 2009. It broke its previous peak concurrent user record of fifty thousand players earlier in the year, and now Apocrypha, the tenth free expansion for EVE Online, is upon us. While the previous expansion, Quantum Rise, was a little light when it came to new content, Apocrypha is bristling with new features and upgrades.

One of the first things that current players will probably notice upon logging into their shiny new client, are the effects. Every effect in the game, from lasers to shield boosters, has been completely redone. It's been more than a year since CCP introduced their Trinity engine, and gave us enhanced ship and structure models, so it's very nice to see the effects finally catch up with the rest of the game. Shadows have also been upgraded, with ships and objects now casting proper shadows.

Read the Apocrypha Review

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • eric_w66eric_w66 North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 1,006Member Uncommon

    The big "con" is definitely the group-only-ness of the wormhole systems.  Aside from the fact you can get ganked by players, the sleepers themselves can do the job just as well, so what does that mean? You have to bring in overwhelming firepower. Like usual. It isn't that the AI is vastly improved. Its just harder to kill and  uses a few tricks that the old AI didn't. There isn't any "skill" involved in fighting them, you just have to have enough people to tank the damage and dish the damage. Like before, except it requires a lot more people.

    Just what Eve didn't need. More empty group oriented zones.

    Aside from all that, the question has to be asked: "Why go there at all?" 

    1) Tech 3 cruisers? Heh. Not worth it, even if they were cheap. Sure you can min/max them more than a normal one, but they're still cruisers. And who's gonna use them for pvp when they cost billions and aren't that much better than a ship that cost a few million?

    2) Mining? Nope. The dangers involved in moving a mining operation into WH space are too great to justify the effort. Why mine veldspar in WH space when you can mine it in safety in High-Sec?

    3) Exploration sites? Well, again, they're surrounded by sleepers who'll roast your exploration ship in seconds, so what's the point here?

    That's about all there is to do, unless you're just looking to gank someone.

  • raven817raven817 Denton, TXPosts: 5Member

    I've only played the Eve trial a few times before, and the learning curve was quite ridiculous, so I may give it another whirl here pretty soon. I had heard about Eve devs making a system for exploring out of your ship, with your player-character. Did that not make it into this expansion?

    I realize if something that big had made it in it would have been mentioned in this review, but you never know.

  • eric_w66eric_w66 North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 1,006Member Uncommon

    It's called "WIS" walking in stations ;)... and no, its "sometime this year".

  • MinscMinsc Burford, ONPosts: 1,271Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eric_w66


    The big "con" is definitely the group-only-ness of the wormhole systems.  Aside from the fact you can get ganked by players, the sleepers themselves can do the job just as well, so what does that mean? You have to bring in overwhelming firepower. Like usual. It isn't that the AI is vastly improved. Its just harder to kill and  uses a few tricks that the old AI didn't. There isn't any "skill" involved in fighting them, you just have to have enough people to tank the damage and dish the damage. Like before, except it requires a lot more people.
    EVE has always been and always will be a social/group game, you can survive playing solo but you can't expect to have the same amount of success as a well organized group. Also the wormholes encourage smaller groups not blobs as you're limited logistically by the mass limits of wormholes. A fleet of 20 roaming around w-space is about the maximum practical fleet you would want operating in wormhole space and that only in the most difficult of them, otherwise a 10-man fleet, enough to operate a full squad is ideal, hardly overwhelming firepower. Oh, and as for getting ganked by players, since the sleepers require something closer to pvp fits rather than the standard npc fits, prepared groups in wh space are a lot less vulnerable to random gankers than they would be ratting in low-sec, especially in systems with tactical enviromental effects.
    Just what Eve didn't need. More empty group oriented zones.
    Aside from all that, the question has to be asked: "Why go there at all?" 
    Because it's fun? Not everything needs to be about the biggest payouts or the highest isk/hour return. Many older players are coming back and enjoying the new content because it revitalizes the game for them or restores the feeling of exploration they got back when the universe was much less crowded than it is now.
    1) Tech 3 cruisers? Heh. Not worth it, even if they were cheap. Sure you can min/max them more than a normal one, but they're still cruisers. And who's gonna use them for pvp when they cost billions and aren't that much better than a ship that cost a few million?
    Yes cause nobody ever PVP's in Hac's or Recon's or Command ships or anything smaller than a battleship.....ever. New stuff is always expensive, the expansion's only been out just under a month so of course the prices are high. How much did the first HAC's or Command ships go for?
    2) Mining? Nope. The dangers involved in moving a mining operation into WH space are too great to justify the effort. Why mine veldspar in WH space when you can mine it in safety in High-Sec?
    It might not be worth it to mine minerals there....and I doubt many will anyways but the gas clouds are certainly worthwhile.
    3) Exploration sites? Well, again, they're surrounded by sleepers who'll roast your exploration ship in seconds, so what's the point here?
    Only if you stick around long enough for them to target you, cov-ops are meant to scan the site down, get the bookmark and gtf out and the only reason you wouldn't make it out is due to lag or being a terrilbe pilot.
    That's about all there is to do, unless you're just looking to gank someone.



     

     

     

  • Kaynos1972Kaynos1972 Quebec, QCPosts: 2,316Member
    Originally posted by eric_w66


    It's called "WIS" walking in stations ;)... and no, its "sometime this year".

     

    Walking in station, now i have Earth and Beyond feedbacks !

  • sadeyxsadeyx leicesterPosts: 1,553Member

    The new player experience is actually much worse than the old one.

    The first thing It asks you to do is go kill something, but neglects to tell you how to warp, how to approach how to orbit or any of those basics.  A few friends of mine have tried it, I thought id just let them to it and see how far they get.  Most couldnt figure out how to kill the first Rat.

    WHspace is fun and different, the skill really is figuring out how to tank them, and they swap targets all the time so you have to be carfeull.  CCP Said "Wspace represents a place of greater risks and greater rewards"  Well, they got half of that statement correct,  you can actually get more rewards farming misisons in safe space.

    But as usual CCP waive their hands and give us the "talk to the hand" routine

  • John.A.ZoidJohn.A.Zoid jiiiiigPosts: 1,531Member

    Yeh the new player experience I found to be much worse and the character creation wasn't all that different apart from you don't have control over your attributes anymore. I didn't see the problem with the old system because it explained it to you and people who have played WoW and coming over to EVE or any RPG get what attributes mean without reading. I also found that it takes you much longer to get into the game now than it ever did before because you basically start off with jack shit and that put my mate off from coming back and trying the game. The actual character creation is still as shit as ever though all the characters look ugly or gay and I really hope they change it soon because it doesn't do the game any favours. The removal of the voice on the tutorial is also really dumb because I liked just listening to her before so I didn't have to read wlals of text.

    I have no problem with having to group in Workhole space because you have to group everywhere else anyways. CCP have created a group only game where soloing is tedious and very boring. What CCP need to do however is make it easier to find a good corp in game cause most people don't even go to the forums. I have no interest going to the horrible community at them forums and I have no interest in talking on EVE's in game chat because they are morons there too.

  • XennithXennith BirminghamPosts: 1,244Member

    Erm....

    EvEs community here dont like you because you flame them at every chance you get, calling us morons and idiots, gankers, griefers, lamers, nutjobs, etc. You expect a warm welcome after that?

    Solo is doable in EvE, grab a tech 1 cruiser, head out to lowsec and pump that scanner. You'll learn or die. You i think will take the second option, then run to the forums and whine about it for a few weeks before flaming the people trying to help you with advice and even the nice person offering you money. Sounds somehow familiar.

    The new expansion is good, tech3 stuff i think we still need to wait on until people actually have the ships to lose, but the exploration system changes are pure win, not tried out the new player experience but apparently its a lot easier now. As far as the box rerelease goes, I think CCP have been let down by Atari, not many places seem to want to stock a "5 year old game" or give it prominent shelf space.

    The 1.1 patch coming soon promises to be awesome, a load of tweaks (including black ops buffs) which put together can only spell W-I-N. I for one welcome my newly "nerfed" falcon overlords with shield buffered blaster fits. My new favorite solo ship.

    Oh wait, you cant solo eve, its too hard. (lol)

  • maxnrosymaxnrosy Winter Haven, FLPosts: 608Member
    Originally posted by John.A.Zoid


    Yeh the new player experience I found to be much worse and the character creation wasn't all that different apart from you don't have control over your attributes anymore. I didn't see the problem with the old system because it explained it to you and people who have played WoW and coming over to EVE or any RPG get what attributes mean without reading. I also found that it takes you much longer to get into the game now than it ever did before because you basically start off with jack shit and that put my mate off from coming back and trying the game. The actual character creation is still as shit as ever though all the characters look ugly or gay and I really hope they change it soon because it doesn't do the game any favours. The removal of the voice on the tutorial is also really dumb because I liked just listening to her before so I didn't have to read wlals of text.
    I have no problem with having to group in Workhole space because you have to group everywhere else anyways. CCP have created a group only game where soloing is tedious and very boring. What CCP need to do however is make it easier to find a good corp in game cause most people don't even go to the forums. I have no interest going to the horrible community at them forums and I have no interest in talking on EVE's in game chat because they are morons there too.

    both you and the poster above yours dont know what your talking about. It really shines to see how you do not realize the huge difference from before and to what it is now.

    Before you wasted alot of time creating your char if you wanted to be the best caldari fighter at start you were  FORCED to choose the new race introduced to caldari in order to start with the best stats to becomming a fighter. If you didnt like how your char looked you were stuck with it due to the fact that that race had the BEST stat layout. Also you as a new player were also  FORCED to check websites on HOW TO MAKE THE PERFECT FIGHTER FOR EACH FACTION. you had to know what options to choose to make the right pilot.

    This was utterly frustrating for new players as they had to spend time doing other things to get their char right.  the new char creation is utterly quick and effective. you get to choose the race of each faction of your liking you can finally  make a char from the start that is not gimped ect.  it works perfectly.

    As for the skills. New players were overwhelmed on how to start out their chars learning after making em. they had a shitload of useless skills for their chars.  All they did was simply the choices to narrow down what path you wanted to choose. THATS NOT ALL. What you failed to mention is that  NEW CHARS NOW LEARN 2 TIMES FASTER THAN BEFORE. so in the long run you can quickly learn your skills and get the skills that actually matter. you can quickly dive into learning and grab every skill book and learn em all. The tutorial will give you about 1 mil isk if you finish your carrer path (more to that in a bit) since you get 2 stat changers at the start if you plan to be a fighter you can easly take all the points off charisma and other stats and put them where you need them thus focusing all your points to what you want to learn. On top of quick learning youll get those wep skills and flying skills very quickly.

    As for the tutorial. Did you guys actually read it. how it will even give you links to the wiki? No you damn didnt because it covers everything. when you finish the 1st tutorial and the tutorial agent quest your given 3 paths. each path will bring the tutorial up again when it is needed she will once again explain you very important things as you progress thru your carreer path. Once you finish your career path you have the option to do the other 2. this is effective to make even more money. also you get to learn how to manufacture , mine and other things all this is explained very well in this new tutorial.

    each path gives you more books to learn ect and information comes when you need it, this is better off than before the patch that after the tutorial you were left on your own. you finish a path and your given a direction to the next agent ect. this is very nice for new players.

    Notice if you make a new char you have the option to start docked which is the default choice and the other is to start undocked.

    if you start in the station the tutorial  TELLS YOU ABOUT HOW TO WARP ect.   the 2nd option is more for those who know.

    Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.

  • cosycosy ColentinaPosts: 3,304Member
    Sleeper/Wormhole content isn't that accessible for solo players.
     

    was never made for solo players and i hope will bee that way

     

    BestSigEver :P
    image

  • eric_w66eric_w66 North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 1,006Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cosy

    Sleeper/Wormhole content isn't that accessible for solo players.
     

    was never made for solo players and i hope will bee that way

     



     

    Indeed, it'll be empty and useless. My friends have all stopped going in. The excitement has worn off. The sleepers drop junk loot, risk is far greater than reward, the scanning issues of having 30 returns all clumped next to each other suck, and tech 3 cruisers aren't worth it.

    It's kinda like faction warfare. A complete and utter bust.

    CCP keeps trying to drive "victims" into the PvP playing field, but the "victims" don't want to go. So all you end up with is the odd pirate/griefer fleet trying to gank some newb (as usual) who wants to explore WH space.

    CCP expanded "space" by 42%! Too bad it'll be as "used" as most of 0.0, which is to say, it isn't.

  • XennithXennith BirminghamPosts: 1,244Member

    on the test server, they've solved the clumping issues, anything you've scanned to 100% you can exclude from scans.

     

    carebears in scared of pvp nonshock?

  • themiltonthemilton Denton, TXPosts: 353Member

    EVE sounded fun, but I was never really enticed enough to try it. Now I just might...

    -------------
    The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.

  • AlverantAlverant Wheaton, ILPosts: 528Member Uncommon

    Eve still sounds like a whole lot of work to play. How can it appeal to casual players when the PvP environment is so ruthless?

  • XennithXennith BirminghamPosts: 1,244Member

    Simple, casual players can still progress. Ill never be as rich as my hardcore friends but with skill and a decent fit and plan, i can beat them.

    also, theres nothing better than coming back from a month long hiatus to a brand new ship.

  • miagisanmiagisan NY, NYPosts: 5,156Member
    Originally posted by Alverant


    Eve still sounds like a whole lot of work to play. How can it appeal to casual players when the PvP environment is so ruthless?

     

    easy

    you grind skills while you sleep. I play maybe 2 hours a night, got a full time job and kids. I have no problem grinding some isk nightly, and pvping once in a while. We run lvl 4 missions, mining runs with corp, and are looking now for a 0 sec alliance. I have close to 600million isk...own a well fitted harbinger and abaddon. 1 level 4 mission i make (with 6 others in fleet) about 5 mil. Or i go ratting in low sec make about 4 mil a night. Go pvp, you can make even more money looted your opponents :D

     

    <-- 6 month old toon

    image

  • miagisanmiagisan NY, NYPosts: 5,156Member

    and wormhole space is non lucrative? since when? gas clouds, hack sites, salvage sites, even npcs in there make you a crapload of money. Especially since almost all the T3 stuff is found in wormhole space, those things sell for mucho isk.

    image

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,189Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eric_w66

    Originally posted by cosy

    Sleeper/Wormhole content isn't that accessible for solo players.
     

    was never made for solo players and i hope will bee that way

     



     

    Indeed, it'll be empty and useless. My friends have all stopped going in. The excitement has worn off. The sleepers drop junk loot, risk is far greater than reward, the scanning issues of having 30 returns all clumped next to each other suck, and tech 3 cruisers aren't worth it.

    It's kinda like faction warfare. A complete and utter bust.

    CCP keeps trying to drive "victims" into the PvP playing field, but the "victims" don't want to go. So all you end up with is the odd pirate/griefer fleet trying to gank some newb (as usual) who wants to explore WH space.

    CCP expanded "space" by 42%! Too bad it'll be as "used" as most of 0.0, which is to say, it isn't.

    We got the fact the first time you badmouthed the changes that you did not like it.  Posting again with the same whine just makes you a whiner who obviously can't be bothered learning something new.   Just to let you know, the sleepers drop tech 3 items that sell very well.

    My corpmates and I have spent most of the past few weeks in the worm hole areas and we have done very well, far better than fooling around in high sec for sure, probably made more than if we were doing runs in 0.0 too.

    So just because you and your friends are too lazy to learn the new areas does not mean the rest of us aren't having a blast with them.  Maybe you should find another game that does not challenge your intellect.

    Oh and the new player experience is far far better than the old one.  You obviously have not tried it, because it is a much better method of teaching someone how to play the game.  

  • eric_w66eric_w66 North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 1,006Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Originally posted by eric_w66

    Originally posted by cosy

    Sleeper/Wormhole content isn't that accessible for solo players.
     

    was never made for solo players and i hope will bee that way

     



     

    Indeed, it'll be empty and useless. My friends have all stopped going in. The excitement has worn off. The sleepers drop junk loot, risk is far greater than reward, the scanning issues of having 30 returns all clumped next to each other suck, and tech 3 cruisers aren't worth it.

    It's kinda like faction warfare. A complete and utter bust.

    CCP keeps trying to drive "victims" into the PvP playing field, but the "victims" don't want to go. So all you end up with is the odd pirate/griefer fleet trying to gank some newb (as usual) who wants to explore WH space.

    CCP expanded "space" by 42%! Too bad it'll be as "used" as most of 0.0, which is to say, it isn't.

    We got the fact the first time you badmouthed the changes that you did not like it.  Posting again with the same whine just makes you a whiner who obviously can't be bothered learning something new.   Just to let you know, the sleepers drop tech 3 items that sell very well.

    My corpmates and I have spent most of the past few weeks in the worm hole areas and we have done very well, far better than fooling around in high sec for sure, probably made more than if we were doing runs in 0.0 too.

    So just because you and your friends are too lazy to learn the new areas does not mean the rest of us aren't having a blast with them.  Maybe you should find another game that does not challenge your intellect.

    Oh and the new player experience is far far better than the old one.  You obviously have not tried it, because it is a much better method of teaching someone how to play the game.  



     

    We got the fact that you're a fanboy and that apocrypha is the perfect expansion with nothing wrong with it the first time you posted, so why bore us again with your drivel about how wonderful it is a second time round?

    Sure, if you play non-stop with a corp of people who play non-stop WH space may be as lucrative as high-sec mining veldspar, but if you don't... well.... its not.

  • NicoliNicoli Harrisburg, PAPosts: 1,312Member
    Originally posted by eric_w66 
    We got the fact that you're a fanboy and that apocrypha is the perfect expansion with nothing wrong with it the first time you posted, so why bore us again with your drivel about how wonderful it is a second time round?
    Sure, if you play non-stop with a corp of people who play non-stop WH space may be as lucrative as high-sec mining veldspar, but if you don't... well.... its not.

     

    Considering that I live in A Class 5 wormhole system I can tell you the rewards are there, NPC battleships with 5+ mill bounties (note that the bounties for Sleepers come like Navy rats with sellable tags) . The belts are nice and full, and you can make quite a bit off of gas mining and regular mining by itsself. The combat can be damn hard against the sleepers and against players with a tactical enviroment you can really through them for a loop. with things  like being able to perma jam a Battleship with a single ECm module.

  • qazymanqazyman round rock, TXPosts: 1,785Member
    Originally posted by eric_w66

    Originally posted by Ozmodan


     

    Sure, if you play non-stop with a corp of people who play non-stop WH space may be as lucrative as high-sec mining veldspar, but if you don't... well.... its not.



     

    Apocrypha is the best expansion EVE has put out in the 4 years I have been playing. As for WH space, some of the criticisms listed are true, but on the other side it has opened up literarily tons of new exploration sites. These sites are worth allot of isk for both groups and solo players.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,189Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eric_w66

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Originally posted by eric_w66

    Originally posted by cosy

    Sleeper/Wormhole content isn't that accessible for solo players.
     

    was never made for solo players and i hope will bee that way

     



     

    Indeed, it'll be empty and useless. My friends have all stopped going in. The excitement has worn off. The sleepers drop junk loot, risk is far greater than reward, the scanning issues of having 30 returns all clumped next to each other suck, and tech 3 cruisers aren't worth it.

    It's kinda like faction warfare. A complete and utter bust.

    CCP keeps trying to drive "victims" into the PvP playing field, but the "victims" don't want to go. So all you end up with is the odd pirate/griefer fleet trying to gank some newb (as usual) who wants to explore WH space.

    CCP expanded "space" by 42%! Too bad it'll be as "used" as most of 0.0, which is to say, it isn't.

    We got the fact the first time you badmouthed the changes that you did not like it.  Posting again with the same whine just makes you a whiner who obviously can't be bothered learning something new.   Just to let you know, the sleepers drop tech 3 items that sell very well.

    My corpmates and I have spent most of the past few weeks in the worm hole areas and we have done very well, far better than fooling around in high sec for sure, probably made more than if we were doing runs in 0.0 too.

    So just because you and your friends are too lazy to learn the new areas does not mean the rest of us aren't having a blast with them.  Maybe you should find another game that does not challenge your intellect.

    Oh and the new player experience is far far better than the old one.  You obviously have not tried it, because it is a much better method of teaching someone how to play the game.  



     

    We got the fact that you're a fanboy and that apocrypha is the perfect expansion with nothing wrong with it the first time you posted, so why bore us again with your drivel about how wonderful it is a second time round?

    Sure, if you play non-stop with a corp of people who play non-stop WH space may be as lucrative as high-sec mining veldspar, but if you don't... well.... its not.



     

    Excuse me, I am laughing at your paltry income if you are mining veldspar in high sec.  Actually I work full time and also go to school, plus have time for a social life, so I don't have time to play Eve that much.  You are just jealous someone is having fun in the new expansion, while you can't figure out how to. 

  • MymhMymh StockholmPosts: 5Member
    Originally posted by Alverant


    Eve still sounds like a whole lot of work to play. How can it appeal to casual players when the PvP environment is so ruthless?

     

    EVE actually is very casual friendly. Partially because the skill system allows you to progress while being offline, partially because combat in EVE can be very efficient even at a "low" (read: cheap) level.

    A tech 1 frigate with some named fitting can cost less than a million to fit (a new player can easily make 200k an hour ratting "safely" in highsec, or making a million an hour running low level missions), and can still be good enough to both join the huge fleets, or to solo certain ships in low sec (just stay away from 0.0 solo, unless in better ships, as you'll get caught in bubbles).

    Another benefit is that EVE has a few elements that lets you log off even when you are near combat. One option is just simply to dock up in a station. Another to cloak up. Alot of players have wife, kids, etc, so if you just say "gotta sleep, work/school" tomorrow, people will say nn/bye. Unlike in other games where you break a raid/group by just disappearing.

    I'm a fulltime gamer myself, playing multiple MMO's since.. the dawn on these games. And I think it's safe to say that EVE is the most casual friendly, and RL forgiving game I've played. You can be useful in cheap ships, noone needs to access the 'endgame', noone flames you for logging off when RL calls, and you don't have to spend hours and hours griding experience, level up skills, or standings with factions.

  • HYPERI0NHYPERI0N BirminghamPosts: 3,515Member
    Originally posted by eric_w66





     

    We got the fact that you're a fanboy and that apocrypha is the perfect expansion with nothing wrong with it the first time you posted, so why bore us again with your drivel about how wonderful it is a second time round?

    Sure, if you play non-stop with a corp of people who play non-stop WH space may be as lucrative as high-sec mining veldspar, but if you don't... well.... its not.

     

    And we get the fact that you are a WoWbot hater so your opinion counts for very little dont it?

     

    Works both ways buddy

    Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981

  • joeybootsjoeyboots Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by HYPERI0N

    Originally posted by eric_w66





     

    We got the fact that you're a fanboy and that apocrypha is the perfect expansion with nothing wrong with it the first time you posted, so why bore us again with your drivel about how wonderful it is a second time round?

    Sure, if you play non-stop with a corp of people who play non-stop WH space may be as lucrative as high-sec mining veldspar, but if you don't... well.... its not.

     

    And we get the fact that you are a WoWbot hater so your opinion counts for very little dont it?

     

    Works both ways buddy

    Ooooh sick burn!

    image

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