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Lord of the Rings Online: Book 7 Q&A

StraddenStradden Managing EditorHalifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

Recently, MMORPG.com Managing Editor Jon Wood had the chance to ask the folks from Turbine a few questions about the upcoming Book 7 update for Lord of the Rings Online.

MMORPG.com:

There is a school of thought amongst some players that making quests too easy to track down via systems like the quest radar makes games too easy and removes a layer of challenge. Can you speak to this?

Turbine:

A primary goal of any game is to have fun, and as you would expect different players have fun in different ways. For players who are new to MMOs or prefer to have a helpful hand finding quest objectives, the Quest Guide provides added features to enhance their gameplay. For players who prefer to explore the world without a guide, we recommend that they disable the Quest Guide through the Options menu (Options>UI>Enable Quest Guide).

If you have run through the winding passages of Moria I believe you'd agree that a marker on the map does not necessarily make the challenge easier; much of the challenge of Moria is simply figuring out how to travel from "A" to "B". We have also taken steps to remove the Quest Guide from situations that were not appropriate, such as quests based on riddles. Ultimately this is a feature that our players have asked for, and we believe will enhance the experience of many players.

Read the Book 7 Q&A

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon

     I disagree on the Quest tracker comment about if you don't like it you can turn it off.

    That is total BS and we all know it.

    Content writers are going to become more lazy, write less text and explain objectives less detailed as they used to be.

    As why would they? As you got a quest tracker now.

    So at a given time you will basically be forced to use it anyway.

     

    It's the same with the self rez ability they gonna introduce with Book 7 as well.

    Totally unnessessary as it makes players even more careless. 

    Instead they could have added a respawn spot here and there, so you don't have to walk or ride back for 15 mins every time.

    That's a better solution, then just giving everyone a self rezz ability.

     

    All in all. Turbine seems to go the same road as SOE and Blizzard.

    Dumbing down their games more and more, until there is basically no real challenge left. 

     

    As sure a game needs to be fun! Completely agree with that. But the fun with MMO's is also the challenge of achieving things. 

    And the moment you start basically handing over most of the stuff on a silver platter..... what's left and the point in playing?

  • todeswulftodeswulf Dallas, TXPosts: 715Member
    Originally posted by Guillermo197


     I disagree on the Quest tracker comment about if you don't like it you can turn it off.
    That is total BS and we all know it.
    Content writers are going to become more lazy, write less text and explain objectives less detailed as they used to be.
    As why would they? As you got a quest tracker now.
    So at a given time you will basically be forced to use it anyway.
     
    It's the same with the self rez ability they gonna introduce with Book 7 as well.
    Totally unnessessary as it makes players even more careless. 
    Instead they could have added a respawn spot here and there, so you don't have to walk or ride back for 15 mins every time.
    That's a better solution, then just giving everyone a self rezz ability.
     
    All in all. Turbine seems to go the same road as SOE and Blizzard.
    Dumbing down their games more and more, until there is basically no real challenge left. 
     
    As sure a game needs to be fun! Completely agree with that. But the fun with MMO's is also the challenge of achieving things. 
    And the moment you start basically handing over most of the stuff on a silver platter..... what's left and the point in playing?



     

    Problem is less and less folks consider fustrating cock blocks  "Challenging" Making a game less fustrating and more engaging isn't dumbing it down, devlopers know this because each time they do it more people play, more people playing means they are on the right track. 

    Yes that is bad news for Joe basement dweller that needs to feel special in the virtual world because they fail at life but that is what...maybe .5% of the gaming population these days?

  • elderbanelderban Port Richey, FLPosts: 3Member

    1. The quest tracker can be turned off and IS optional. If you don't like it or don't want to use it, turn it off. It's real easy to do.

    2. With regards to the self-rez, there is still a retreat button next to it, you can use that. Again, this is optional. Additionally it can only be used once every thirty minutes to two hours (depending on your level). And it's nothing more than a retreat, but you're retreating to the same spot you died in instead of back to a rez circle.

    And, again, these are completely optional. If you don't want to use them, don't use them, but don't tell others how they can or cannot play the game. If they choose to use the quest trackers or the self-rez, then that's their choice. Personally, I don't plan on using them.

    I really don't know why everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over this.

     

     

    Officer of the Wardens of Westmarch - Landroval
    www.wardensofwestmarch.com

  • Player_420Player_420 KuesecPosts: 686Member
    Originally posted by todeswulf

    Originally posted by Guillermo197


     I disagree on the Quest tracker comment about if you don't like it you can turn it off.
    That is total BS and we all know it.
    Content writers are going to become more lazy, write less text and explain objectives less detailed as they used to be.
    As why would they? As you got a quest tracker now.
    So at a given time you will basically be forced to use it anyway.
     
    It's the same with the self rez ability they gonna introduce with Book 7 as well.
    Totally unnessessary as it makes players even more careless. 
    Instead they could have added a respawn spot here and there, so you don't have to walk or ride back for 15 mins every time.
    That's a better solution, then just giving everyone a self rezz ability.
     
    All in all. Turbine seems to go the same road as SOE and Blizzard.
    Dumbing down their games more and more, until there is basically no real challenge left. 
     
    As sure a game needs to be fun! Completely agree with that. But the fun with MMO's is also the challenge of achieving things. 
    And the moment you start basically handing over most of the stuff on a silver platter..... what's left and the point in playing?



     

    Problem is less and less folks consider fustrating cock blocks  "Challenging" Making a game less fustrating and more engaging isn't dumbing it down, devlopers know this because each time they do it more people play, more people playing means they are on the right track. 

    Yes that is bad news for Joe basement dweller that needs to feel special in the virtual world because they fail at life but that is what...maybe .5% of the gaming population these days?

     

    Dude your posting second on a MMO forum thread at 9:44AM......and your talking about "Joe basement dweller"?

    People are quickest to point out their own problems....but let me say this

    The elite raid population of MMO's is a ever growing number, and if you cant keep them happy, the game is over, I am not satisfied with LoTRO's new raid style personally and will be waiting for a while it seems.

    I play all ghame

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Player_420

    Originally posted by todeswulf

    Originally posted by Guillermo197


     I disagree on the Quest tracker comment about if you don't like it you can turn it off.
    That is total BS and we all know it.
    Content writers are going to become more lazy, write less text and explain objectives less detailed as they used to be.
    As why would they? As you got a quest tracker now.
    So at a given time you will basically be forced to use it anyway.
     
    It's the same with the self rez ability they gonna introduce with Book 7 as well.
    Totally unnessessary as it makes players even more careless. 
    Instead they could have added a respawn spot here and there, so you don't have to walk or ride back for 15 mins every time.
    That's a better solution, then just giving everyone a self rezz ability.
     
    All in all. Turbine seems to go the same road as SOE and Blizzard.
    Dumbing down their games more and more, until there is basically no real challenge left. 
     
    As sure a game needs to be fun! Completely agree with that. But the fun with MMO's is also the challenge of achieving things. 
    And the moment you start basically handing over most of the stuff on a silver platter..... what's left and the point in playing?



     

    Problem is less and less folks consider fustrating cock blocks  "Challenging" Making a game less fustrating and more engaging isn't dumbing it down, devlopers know this because each time they do it more people play, more people playing means they are on the right track. 

    Yes that is bad news for Joe basement dweller that needs to feel special in the virtual world because they fail at life but that is what...maybe .5% of the gaming population these days?

     

    Dude your posting second on a MMO forum thread at 9:44AM......and your talking about "Joe basement dweller"?

    People are quickest to point out their own problems....but let me say this

    The elite raid population of MMO's is a ever growing number, and if you cant keep them happy, the game is over, I am not satisfied with LoTRO's new raid style personally and will be waiting for a while it seems.

    The funny thing is, that I hardly ever bothered to RAID at all. It's not my thing. I am considering myself a little above casual when it comes to time spend on gaming.

    I have a full time job, a lovely girlfriend and live in a nice appartement. Thank you. (this line was ment to todeswulf)

    --------

    Since when is reading a quest dialog / description to find out what it's about and where you need to go tedious?  Get a clue man!

    Since when is everyone having a self rez ability optional, when every group is going expect you to be using it? 

    --------

    It's not the only things that add to the dumbing down of the game. It's a lot of other stuff in the Book 7 patch notes that are even more hilarious.

    Like Resource instances, giving you a guaranteed and steady supply of resources. So now everyone can race to Supreme Master in Crafting. Not to mention that the AH will be overflowing with resources and gear. There goes your economy and ability to make some coin as crafter.

    The only profession that had it a bit hard in getting resources was the scholar. Every other profession was just fine.  

    Increase in overal XP gain. I can understand if it was only for the first 20 levels or so, to make it easier for the new players (as the first 20 levels are something to bite through right now).... but doing it accross the whole board???? why??  It's like they going the road of EQ2 and WoW to have everyone race to the cap, skip half the content (quests gray out so fast) just for the sake of repeating dungeons and raiding. 

    And here I thought that LOTRO was about the journey through Middle Earth and not endgame RAID'ing. 

    --------

    You guys should take a good look at the full patch notes in what's going to happen. There is a reason a lot of discussion topics emerged on the official forums right now.

    Cheers

     

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Newport News, VAPosts: 5,615Member
    Originally posted by Guillermo197



    Content writers are going to become more lazy, write less text and explain objectives less detailed as they used to be.


     

    The quest writing already far surpasses any other MMO to day, why would this change...at all? Turbine is not your typical MMO house, and has higher standards than anyone.

     

    As for self rez, please to be reading what it is:


     

    Players may now revive themselves in place, via a button on the user interface window when a character is defeated, instead of retreating. This feature is disabled in instances, during Monster Play and after instant defeat.

    * At levels 1 through 9, characters will have a 30 minute cooldown (shown via a "Revived" effect) that prevents them from reviving again.

    * At level 10, when the character receives the "Journeyman" characteristic, the revive cooldown increases to 1 hour.

    * At level 40, when the character receives the "Heroic" characteristic, the self revive cooldown increases to 2 hours.

    You'll come back with 20% power and morale. You'll also have the standard dread/item wear applied per a normal death.


     

    As you can see, its only truely usefull to low level players, AS IT SHOULD BE. The sky is NOT falling.

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • SynthetickSynthetick Portland, ORPosts: 977Member

    While I'm not overly enthusiastic about the quest helper being implemented, I see no problem with the self-res ability and the revamp to the starting areas will be nice, as well. Doesn't look too bad to me.

    image

  • PyukPyuk Eugene, ORPosts: 691Member Uncommon

    The quest helper is only a good thing. Not everyone needs to stroke their e-peen trying to figure out where the hell the third purple bush in the southest hillside next to the naked rambling troll is. Sometimes folks just want to get on with a quest line to not only finish it, but also see where the story takes them without looking for a needle in a corn field. Want to feel mas-macho? Turn it off and wander. Pretty simple, really. And the resurrection thing? Only helps lowbies. Not the end of LotRO, at all.

    I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  • AitanaAitana Irvine, CAPosts: 8Member

    For the few (?!?!) of us who are casual gamers and have forsaken other MMOs for LOTRO, this is all good.

    I like the quest assistance, only because I hate wasting my time with a group searching for that blinking cup or corpse for 20 minutes and then someone has to log for the night or eat dinner or something.  Either that, or Turbine needs to give better directions than "east of the mountains but north of the sea"-type clues...

    The other issue is that making the quest "harder" just makes gamers rely on quest helper forums and websites rather than trust the game. Where's the fun in that?

     

  • Jeff44Jeff44 1, FLPosts: 459Member

    While I can understand the fear that some have of LotRO being made too easy, I simply don't see that as an issue with this update.

    user
  • TeganxTeganx phoenix, AZPosts: 401Member
    Originally posted by Player_420


    Dude your posting second on a MMO forum thread at 9:44AM......and your talking about "Joe basement dweller"?
    People are quickest to point out their own problems....but let me say this
    The elite raid population of MMO's is a ever growing number, and if you cant keep them happy, the game is over, I am not satisfied with LoTRO's new raid style personally and will be waiting for a while it seems.

     

    Some of us wake up early in the morning to do things like go to work and class and we browse the forums for a few minutes before we take off. And even if we don't have something important to do on a particular morning, most wake up before 10 simply to not waste the day. 10am isnt as early as you think kid. Don't talk about losers when your name includes the term 420...

    playing: darkfall
    waiting: earthrise

  • solareussolareus Nottingham, PAPosts: 3,165Member

    People who are talking negative about the quest tracking guide , seriously don't play the game. They are the same nobobies who flame any game change.

    People who play LotRO , have almost 88% of the time used the MEHQ map online, with the new changes now we don't have to ctrl+tab out and look things up online. It is a positive move for people who are actually playing the game, anyone who doesn't play the game will flame the change.

    It is an endless cycle of nobodies trying to start a flame war, been there done that, go play your game and stfu .

    "Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
    image

  • XBD47XBD47 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1Member

    Almost with any update to any MMO there are people who are going to complain about the changes, cant please everybody. But until you get into the game and see them firsthand, you have no right to complain. It will probably not be as bad as some are making it out to be. As many have said the quest helper features are optional, and also, will not hinder the quest dialogue at all. This update is adding quite alot and does not boil down to just two features you may dislike.

    Turbine released the first expansion pack not to long ago with Mines of Moria, and they will be adding Lothlorien with this update. They still have plenty of land left within Middle Earth, and plenty of the Lord of the Rings story to tell. There are at the least two more expansions coming, maybe more. The game obviously has to change some and get rebalanced for the new content and expansions coming. The game will still have some very difficult content, you think Mordor is going to be like Moria?

  • Mariner-80Mariner-80 Winchester, VAPosts: 347Member

    I find the hubbub about the coming changes rather amusing. In my opinion the changes are great and much improve the fun factor of this game.

    For those looking for more of a challenge, turn the features off or do not use them (Though I strongly suspect that most of the critics will be using these new features along with the rest of us -- just not admitting that they do. That way they can still be "game purists" and still reap the benefits of these new features. What a deal!)

    The quest tracker is a good idea because it declutterizes the Advice window.

    "Where is Glorfindel?"

    Five minutes later....

    "Where is Glorfindel?

    Eight minutes later...

    "Where is Glorfindel?"

    Heck, I am turning to online help myself constantly (and usually in frustration) to find where some blasted quest item or NPC is located. How fun is that? The quest tracker just incorporates a guidance option like that into the game instead of having to exit the game and surf the web.

    I do hope the feature is key mappable, as I'd like the option to turn it on *only* when I'm really stumped and frustrated and unable to find something or someone on my own. I would have preferred to see a Quest Tracker on/off toggle button on the minimap, but oh well.

    As for the self-rez, I think that's a good idea, too.

    I love LotRO; I think it's a great and fun game, but I find the Luddite resistance to any helpful changes and improvements to the game on the part of some of LotRO's ardent fans to be, frankly, both puzzling and humorous.

  • LoopholeLoophole AmsterdamPosts: 27Member

    Really, anyone that considers LoTRo to be "challenging" is probably the kind used to clicking ACCEPT to every dialogue screen and then waiting for the big red arrow to appear on screen guiding them to the mob camp ten paces away.

    In a game where 3/6 man outdoor quests often involve little more than one or two mobs that can be stunlocked endlessly without any diminishing returns, you'd think Turbine's assessment of their playerbase's intelligence is already sufficiently low to not have complaints about it being too hard. It's no harder than the WotLK and that's about as easy as it gets.

    Difficulty here relating to how good you have to be at controlling your character, rather than how time consuming something is.

  • todeswulftodeswulf Dallas, TXPosts: 715Member
    Originally posted by Player_420


     
    Dude your posting second on a MMO forum thread at 9:44AM......and your talking about "Joe basement dweller"?
    People are quickest to point out their own problems....but let me say this
    The elite raid population of MMO's is a ever growing number, and if you cant keep them happy, the game is over, I am not satisfied with LoTRO's new raid style personally and will be waiting for a while it seems.



     

    Weak comments that have nothing to do with the topic at hand aside......

    If you actually think that elite raiders are growing in number you need to run not walk to the nearest drug rehab. Raiding is dead Mr. Hawking, if you don't belive me ask the 11.5 million happy non-raiders that play the 500 lb Gorillia.  Blizzard gave Raiders the finger ages ago and their population exploded...and now ever other devloper is following suit.  Face it your kind no longer matters.

     

    It's okay gramps pack another Bong and convince yourself that  MMO's are still all about the Raid game. /smirk.

     

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member

    I remember the first time I tried WoW after playing EQ for years. I remember thinking how a MMO couldn't get any easier, that they finally made a game for everyone to enjoy. Anyone could level to the end, there was small group dungeons for people with little time, and raids for people to enjoy on the weekend. I thought this is nice for a slower relaxed easy pace. And then I was dumbstruck to find people refering to WoW as a hard game, an elitest game, a game where only where hardcore goes.

    Then WoW became trivial easy in the next two expansions. Too trivial for me to enjoy, I left. I couldn't believe it, MMOs got to the point where they have no challenge and excitement. I would rather watch a TV show rather than log in. Then came LOTRO .. I was dumbfounded once again the bar was again dropped. How much farther can you go before people quit of boredom? Then came Mines of Moria .. a game not only where the game is super easy but there is NO content for large groups.

    The largest group is a meer what is it 12, to kill one little boss? The rest was little small group stuff and people still are calling that raiding? To me there isn't any raids in LOTRO, it is very easy to do everything in that game without trying, it takes no time to do it all as well. I think I want more from my online experience. I don't want a solo game that ends in a 3 -6 months? I would rather just buy a offline game to do that. 

    Not saying that this is bad for everyone. I am saying I didn't really think it would get to this point where single player rpgs take more time then some MMOs and are more difficult. If you felt anything about lotro was difficult at any time point, I must ask what games did you grow up playing?

    It must be a new generation. I did notice all console games are not worth playing, The trend to make things so stupidly easy and trivial started about 6-8 years ago. Not sure when. I remember playing nintendo games where if you died 3 times at any point in the entire game .. you started over ...and you died by being touched by anything. 

    If any of you guys want a trip down classic hard nintendo lane, just pick up the game Amazon and play it. I swear I couldn't get past the 3rd level on that blasted game. hehe

  • LaserwolfLaserwolf Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 2,383Member

    I'm not fond of self rez or quest arrows at all.

    image

  • SoludeSolude Ottawa, ONPosts: 691Member Uncommon

    I am personally very happy with both changes.  No need for leaving game to find a location or spending time running back to an area because of the rare death.  Win win to me.  Reverse the trait system grind fest to bonus then title and LotRO would be nearly flawless MMO

  • googajoob7googajoob7 londonPosts: 866Member

    it sounds interesting and even though i think lord of the rings is a a great game i personally wont be returning after they continued to charge my paypal account even though i cancelled with them . shame really i was about to invest in a lifetime sub but it annoyed me so much i would never play another game by codemasters/turbine .

  • solareussolareus Nottingham, PAPosts: 3,165Member
    Originally posted by qombi


    I remember the first time I tried WoW ....

     

    This is a great post , it has all the woorking of a left over vanguard die hard written all over it.

    THe one major proplem with Vangaurd players is, the game must have everything in it it, it must take 5 years to craft 1 ingot, it must cater to 12 people.

    The sad reality is that , a game is not supposed to be everything, it is a gateway , a door to an adventure where people can contribute and create there own fun with friends they meet in passing bys. Games like LotrO leave something open for th player to enjoy, and great games do that. Bad games either completely take over a players life, or leaves no room for a real community spirit.

    If your like qombi, then you most likely need to revisit why you play mmorpg's. If you really want something challenging, get a crossword puzzle .

    "Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
    image

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    I think that Quest tracker is a very good thing. I have often been away a time and when returning I didnt know heads or tails where to go.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • thorwoodthorwood MayfieldPosts: 485Member

    I would have to say that some of the directions for quests in the Moria release were not particularly helpful.  I can give 4 types of quest directions where this may occur:


    1. The directions were in relation to locations you had not yet discovered.  For example it is east of location A and south of location B, but you had not discovered either of those locations and the locations are not shown on your map until you have discovered them

    2. The directions send you to a remote locality on a different map from your current one. If you have not even discovered the area on the different map, the directions may not be helpful

    3. There is no direct route to where you need to go.  The destination may be NE of you, but you have have to go on a long roundabout route to get there.  Different possible locations that are all NE of you may even require different roundabout routes.  Descriptions of distances in game worlds are very subjective.

    4. Because Moria  is underground, the destination could be above or below you on a different level.  Even classes that could track target mobs are challenged.

       

    Sometimes the directions involved a combination of the above.

    Moria is an underground area, and travel between different map areas often involved long detours due to chasms, blocked passages, broken bridges or  tunnels and corridors that followed indirect routes. 

    Given the challenges, on the whole, Turbine did a good job in the quest directions.  However, a map would have made some of the quests clearer.  You could consider it comparable to a treasure map.  It is true that a picture (or map) can save a thousand words of description.

    In real life most of us use maps to find new places.  We may even show people where something is on the map when giving directions, particularly where the area is totally unfamiliar.  Modern electronic maps usually show destinations with some type of marker.

    Another alternative would have been if the ingame maps included more detail so that the travel directions were more meaningful.

    I can understand why Turbine are making the changes. I just hope that their implementation will be the best solution.

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member
    Originally posted by solareus

    Originally posted by qombi


    I remember the first time I tried WoW ....

     

    This is a great post , it has all the woorking of a left over vanguard die hard written all over it.

    THe one major proplem with Vangaurd players is, the game must have everything in it it, it must take 5 years to craft 1 ingot, it must cater to 12 people.

    The sad reality is that , a game is not supposed to be everything, it is a gateway , a door to an adventure where people can contribute and create there own fun with friends they meet in passing bys. Games like LotrO leave something open for th player to enjoy, and great games do that. Bad games either completely take over a players life, or leaves no room for a real community spirit.

    If your like qombi, then you most likely need to revisit why you play mmorpg's. If you really want something challenging, get a crossword puzzle .

     

    Hey now don't put words in my mouth! Why should a crossword puzzle be challenging and not an online game? You put words in my mouth. I never mentioned Vanguard and I did say I did enjoy original WoW which was not time consuming. I have a family, job, home etc and played WoW. The original dungeons and raids had some challenge and did not take up all my life.

    You need to quit trying to spread propaganda about how much time some of these games take. I raided in the original game on the weekends, our guild did most all end game dungeons. We scheduled to meet up on a day and played 4-5 hrs one day a week. It was a casual guild, all had real life responsibilities. Games can be time convenient and still pose a challenge.

    I don't get where you think you can decide that MMORPGs are not meant to provide challenging game play. And don't come telling me I need to revisit why I play games. Half of the stuff you typed you made up on the spot. If you feel WoW was difficult or too time consuming. Remember I played WoW in the past maybe a 2 -3 hrs 3- 4 days a week and maybe 4-5 hours on a Saturday.

    Just because you want instant gratification doesn't mean you can make false claims about the time it takes to play or how challenging these games are suppose to be.

  • donaldduckdonaldduck City17Posts: 160Member

    Always wondered how long Turbine would hold out before adding in super noob mode - and here it is...

    I don't even play LOTRO anymore but when I did it was already FAR too easy to find any location. All this will do is bring in a further level of ignorance to players who won't even bother reading the quest any more but rather FOLLOW DA PRETTY ARROW!

    Seems this retardo mode is infecting many games these days (Oblivion and Fallout 3) and its just not a good thing at all. 

    'Bring the stupid gamer up to the level of the great game, don't bring the great game down to the level of the stupid gamer' ©

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