I hate to burst your bubble babe, but: DF ain't got nothing on those games, and there are a few/several more I could've nabbed screenshots from that have way longer draw distances than DF.
Yeah, except that none of those games has nearly the character/mob draw distance that DFO has. Christ, AoC as impressive draw distance? "Oh look, I can see those mountains that I'll never be able to cross because of small zones and artifical boundaries!" The char draw distance was reasonable on AoC if you cranked it all the way up, but still nowhere near as good as DFO's, and doing so destroyed your FPS in that piece of trash client.
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
I hate to burst your bubble babe, but: DF ain't got nothing on those games, and there are a few/several more I could've nabbed screenshots from that have way longer draw distances than DF.
Yeah, except that none of those games has nearly the character/mob draw distance that DFO has. Christ, AoC as impressive draw distance? "Oh look, I can see those mountains that I'll never be able to cross because of small zones and artifical boundaries!" The char draw distance was reasonable on AoC if you cranked it all the way up, but still nowhere near as good as DFO's, and doing so destroyed your FPS in that piece of trash client.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I am not sure what you are asking. There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something), but the light cycles take awhile to wait on and I had an Ork periodically attacking me while my game was minimized from the screenshot software. As far as I know very few testers have ever seen weather effects aside from atmospheric fog (weather has primarily been turned off in beta).
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
There is nothing impressive at all about the draw distances in any of those shots. They all use fog to limit your view to a short distance away. AC1 could do better than that almost 10 years ago. Perhaps that is why Darkfall is so "stable". Nothing is turned on, views are clipped to a few hundred feet, player base is purposefully kept small. Adventurine is doing all they can to avoid stressing the client in any way. Wonder why?
Being in almost every MMO beta in the last decade tell me that there is no such thing as a magic patch. What you see at the end of beta is what you get.
The qq'ing of the rabid fanboys when they find that all these supposed features that are promised to be turned on at launch aren't there will cause a Alderan-sized disturbance in the force.
I am not sure what you are asking. There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something), but the light cycles take awhile to wait on and I had an Ork periodically attacking me while my game was minimized from the screenshot software. As far as I know very few testers have ever seen weather effects aside from atmospheric fog (weather has primarily been turned off in beta).
Fogging is where an object will fog or turn gray the farther it get from you. Nothing to do with the weather.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Yes. They had weather off for beta, but there is weather with fog/rain/wind. What we're seeing here is just the clip plane on beta low settings (the slider didn't work during debug mode)
just read your above post... guess my reply to was wrong to your comment, but it's still true.
I am not sure what you are asking. There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something), but the light cycles take awhile to wait on and I had an Ork periodically attacking me while my game was minimized from the screenshot software. As far as I know very few testers have ever seen weather effects aside from atmospheric fog (weather has primarily been turned off in beta).
so the "fog" we see is not the old, tried, tested method of artificially hiding the drawing of scenery, but is instead "atmospheric fog" produced by the weather system?
Anyway, IMO the draw distance is dreadful. As posted already, look at WW2 online, that has some truly brilliant draw distances.
Today or tonight, or tomorrow or tomorrow night is launch time, I hope for some of your sakes that the infamous "beta - debug - option disabled" stuff will be ON in your new client builds.
I am not sure what you are asking. There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something), but the light cycles take awhile to wait on and I had an Ork periodically attacking me while my game was minimized from the screenshot software. As far as I know very few testers have ever seen weather effects aside from atmospheric fog (weather has primarily been turned off in beta).
so the "fog" we see is not the old, tried, tested method of artificially hiding the drawing of scenery, but is instead "atmospheric fog" produced by the weather system?
Anyway, IMO the draw distance is dreadful. As posted already, look at WW2 online, that has some truly brilliant draw distances.
Today or tonight, or tomorrow or tomorrow night is launch time, I hope for some of your sakes that the infamous "beta - debug - option disabled" stuff will be ON in your new client builds.
GL DF fans.
read a few lines up... actually i'll repost it here in bold so not so many people miss it.
Texures, Clip Range, and Antialiasing are all Low, Low, and Off during the debug beta.
edit: since people tend to need things spelled out to them around here....
- THIS MEANS THAT ALL THE SCREENSHOTS AND VIDEOS YOU'VE SEEN SO FAR ARE THE WORST QUALITY POSSIBLE. THE GAME WILL LOOK MUCH BETTER UPON RELEASE.
100 meteres is he default setting goign higher doesnt do anything atm wait until everything client side is enabled for gfx options lmao
I see you making all these stupid comments everywhere with nothing to back it up compaired to clear proof from players here in the now.
If it ain't available now, it ain't available tonight or anytime soon. Period.
Why would they turn off most GFX options and distance sliders at release, just to make it look like crap and feed the negative publicity even more?
I know why! Because there ain't more distance drawing and there ain't more GFX available.
What you see is what you get!
This is the exact same crap people were spouting on the WAR forums back in August/september last year, about how many GFX features were still turned off and that lot of textures and animations weren't finished yet, but will be magically available at launch.
How funny that when I left 4 months later in January this year, WAR was the exact same as it was at launch.
So stop your bullshit in spewing out unproven and false information, while the evidence is loud and clear here in front of us!
My appologies for the rant! But this had to be said!
I am not sure what you are asking. There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something), but the light cycles take awhile to wait on and I had an Ork periodically attacking me while my game was minimized from the screenshot software. As far as I know very few testers have ever seen weather effects aside from atmospheric fog (weather has primarily been turned off in beta).
so the "fog" we see is not the old, tried, tested method of artificially hiding the drawing of scenery, but is instead "atmospheric fog" produced by the weather system?
Anyway, IMO the draw distance is dreadful. As posted already, look at WW2 online, that has some truly brilliant draw distances.
Today or tonight, or tomorrow or tomorrow night is launch time, I hope for some of your sakes that the infamous "beta - debug - option disabled" stuff will be ON in your new client builds.
GL DF fans.
read a few lines up... actually i'll repost it here in bold so not so many people miss it.
Texures, Clip Range, and Antialiasing are all Low, Low, and Off during the debug beta.
edit: since people tend to need things spelled out to them around here....
- THIS MEANS THAT ALL THE SCREENSHOTS AND VIDEOS YOU'VE SEEN SO FAR ARE THE WORST QUALITY POSSIBLE. THE GAME WILL LOOK MUCH BETTER UPON RELEASE.
OHHH... THANKS FoR tHe HEADS UP..!!!oneoneone
I was replying to the person I quoted. If you bothered to read what he said. Perhaps I should SPELL IT OUT FOR
YOU
"There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something),"
So, again GL darkfall fans except YOU, I hope your net connection goes down just as you log in .
Why is this game still in debug mode. silly AV they sould get there act together.
BTW debug mode sounds like an excuse at this point in the game.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
yeabelh 3 weeks and the shows over I can't believe it either and it feels like they are trying to cram way too much into the end of the show I hope they stick to their guns and get us a few dvd movies from bsg like they did with stargate. Now onto darkfall, what exactly is the hype about this game? It's another hack slash elf bleh game. I'd kill for a bsg mmo. Actually I'm in line for jumpgate and star ttrek
Sounds like the escuses that were made for Horizons, Dark & Light, Vanguard, Hellgate London, etc., etc,. Face it guys, what you see is what you get.
And the fact they never once had a stress test should worry you. A competent MMO developer uses the last couple weeks before release to overload the servers and break stuff in order to handle as large a crowd as possible at launch. They don't hide the flaws behind a limited launch.
Sounds like the escuses that were made for Horizons, Dark & Light, Vanguard, Hellgate London, etc., etc,. Face it guys, what you see is what you get.
And the fact they never once had a stress test should worry you. A competent MMO developer uses the last couple weeks before release to overload the servers and break stuff in order to handle as large a crowd as possible at launch. They don't hide the flaws behind a limited launch.
Crash and burn is what my crystal ball shows.
So you're saying upon release, the sliders for anti aliasing will just be for show. The graphics option of low medium and high is just there like a minigame, it doesn't the visual experience of the gamer..... way to disregard logic in favor of your emotion, woman.
Sounds like the escuses that were made for Horizons, Dark & Light, Vanguard, Hellgate London, etc., etc,. Face it guys, what you see is what you get.
And the fact they never once had a stress test should worry you. A competent MMO developer uses the last couple weeks before release to overload the servers and break stuff in order to handle as large a crowd as possible at launch. They don't hide the flaws behind a limited launch.
Crash and burn is what my crystal ball shows.
So you're saying upon release, the sliders for anti aliasing will just be for show. The graphics option of low medium and high is just there like a minigame, it doesn't the visual experience of the gamer..... way to disregard logic in favor of your emotion, woman.
Logic states that AV would show off there game in all it's glory at this point in time (after NDA drop). Have they ? Please tell me they have not.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
No, I am saying that in the beta client they are just for show, just like the DX10 checkbox in the AoC beta client was just for show. I have been around long enough to have seen this exact scenario played out several times. If it isn't working 1 day before launch, then it won't be working at launch.
Three possible scenarios here:
1: Game launches, players notice that all the stuff they were promised at launch is still missing. Much qq happens.
2: Game launches, all these features are turned on. Performance sucks because it was never tested properly. Much qq happens.
3: By some miracle, all the missing stuff is turned on and works perfectly even though history shows that is very unlikely. I eat my words.
Oh, and who is ignoring logic and letting emotion cloud judgement? The one who is looking at the history of the industry and has seen these exact promises broken several times, or the person with no evidence to back his hopes for the game and so attempts to insult the bearer of bad news. Although, even though I am male, I fail to see how being a woman would be a negative thing. Way to display your misogony.
FYI, I was hoping this game would deliver. I wanted a harsh, skill-based sandbox. But instead it looks like we got a slow-paced FPS wanna-be with looting.
I never had the frame rate issues other people had while playing AoC, and I COULD see player movement from positions shown in the AoC screenshot. In a PvP game seeing the enemy is everything.
Sounds like the escuses that were made for Horizons, Dark & Light, Vanguard, Hellgate London, etc., etc,. Face it guys, what you see is what you get.
And the fact they never once had a stress test should worry you. A competent MMO developer uses the last couple weeks before release to overload the servers and break stuff in order to handle as large a crowd as possible at launch. They don't hide the flaws behind a limited launch.
Crash and burn is what my crystal ball shows.
So you're saying upon release, the sliders for anti aliasing will just be for show. The graphics option of low medium and high is just there like a minigame, it doesn't the visual experience of the gamer..... way to disregard logic in favor of your emotion, woman.
Dude, this was the same as with AoC and WAR.
People complained about it just after launch why sertain features weren't working and a patch later the features had magically dissapeared.
Remember that people were saying that in WAR everything was fixed on medium setting during Beta as for so called Testing purposes?
At least with AoC they actually have DX10 now on Test Live. But that's almost a year after launch lol.
There is no reason to dissable GFX features and keep them dissabled until launch if these features exist! That's just bullshit.
I am beta testing a sertain MMO right now in Closed Beta and several GFX features like Advanced Post FX and Shadows is horribly bugged and a huge resource hog on the client.
Yet they don't dissable these features, because they want error logs, bug reports and feedback so they can fix it!
So get a grip and wake up! What you now see is what you get! Period!
yeabelh 3 weeks and the shows over I can't believe it either and it feels like they are trying to cram way too much into the end of the show I hope they stick to their guns and get us a few dvd movies from bsg like they did with stargate. Now onto darkfall, what exactly is the hype about this game? It's another hack slash elf bleh game. I'd kill for a bsg mmo. Actually I'm in line for jumpgate and star ttrek
Comments
Yeah, except that none of those games has nearly the character/mob draw distance that DFO has. Christ, AoC as impressive draw distance? "Oh look, I can see those mountains that I'll never be able to cross because of small zones and artifical boundaries!" The char draw distance was reasonable on AoC if you cranked it all the way up, but still nowhere near as good as DFO's, and doing so destroyed your FPS in that piece of trash client.
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
-Matt Groening
Yeah, except that none of those games has nearly the character/mob draw distance that DFO has. Christ, AoC as impressive draw distance? "Oh look, I can see those mountains that I'll never be able to cross because of small zones and artifical boundaries!" The char draw distance was reasonable on AoC if you cranked it all the way up, but still nowhere near as good as DFO's, and doing so destroyed your FPS in that piece of trash client.
Not anymore.
one can't have everything. But DFO is *as of state of the game in Beta* significantly below competition for a 2009 game in the graphics department.
Texures, Clip Range, and Antialiasing are all Low, Low, and Off during the debug beta.
All of these "darkfall graphics vs. cookie-cutter-game graphics" are retarded.
DF uses fogging correct ?
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I am not sure what you are asking. There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something), but the light cycles take awhile to wait on and I had an Ork periodically attacking me while my game was minimized from the screenshot software. As far as I know very few testers have ever seen weather effects aside from atmospheric fog (weather has primarily been turned off in beta).
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
-Matt Groening
There is nothing impressive at all about the draw distances in any of those shots. They all use fog to limit your view to a short distance away. AC1 could do better than that almost 10 years ago. Perhaps that is why Darkfall is so "stable". Nothing is turned on, views are clipped to a few hundred feet, player base is purposefully kept small. Adventurine is doing all they can to avoid stressing the client in any way. Wonder why?
Being in almost every MMO beta in the last decade tell me that there is no such thing as a magic patch. What you see at the end of beta is what you get.
The qq'ing of the rabid fanboys when they find that all these supposed features that are promised to be turned on at launch aren't there will cause a Alderan-sized disturbance in the force.
I am not sure what you are asking. There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something), but the light cycles take awhile to wait on and I had an Ork periodically attacking me while my game was minimized from the screenshot software. As far as I know very few testers have ever seen weather effects aside from atmospheric fog (weather has primarily been turned off in beta).
Fogging is where an object will fog or turn gray the farther it get from you. Nothing to do with the weather.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Yes. They had weather off for beta, but there is weather with fog/rain/wind. What we're seeing here is just the clip plane on beta low settings (the slider didn't work during debug mode)
just read your above post... guess my reply to was wrong to your comment, but it's still true.
I am not sure what you are asking. There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something), but the light cycles take awhile to wait on and I had an Ork periodically attacking me while my game was minimized from the screenshot software. As far as I know very few testers have ever seen weather effects aside from atmospheric fog (weather has primarily been turned off in beta).
so the "fog" we see is not the old, tried, tested method of artificially hiding the drawing of scenery, but is instead "atmospheric fog" produced by the weather system?
Anyway, IMO the draw distance is dreadful. As posted already, look at WW2 online, that has some truly brilliant draw distances.
Today or tonight, or tomorrow or tomorrow night is launch time, I hope for some of your sakes that the infamous "beta - debug - option disabled" stuff will be ON in your new client builds.
GL DF fans.
I am not sure what you are asking. There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something), but the light cycles take awhile to wait on and I had an Ork periodically attacking me while my game was minimized from the screenshot software. As far as I know very few testers have ever seen weather effects aside from atmospheric fog (weather has primarily been turned off in beta).
so the "fog" we see is not the old, tried, tested method of artificially hiding the drawing of scenery, but is instead "atmospheric fog" produced by the weather system?
Anyway, IMO the draw distance is dreadful. As posted already, look at WW2 online, that has some truly brilliant draw distances.
Today or tonight, or tomorrow or tomorrow night is launch time, I hope for some of your sakes that the infamous "beta - debug - option disabled" stuff will be ON in your new client builds.
GL DF fans.
read a few lines up... actually i'll repost it here in bold so not so many people miss it.
Texures, Clip Range, and Antialiasing are all Low, Low, and Off during the debug beta.
edit: since people tend to need things spelled out to them around here....
- THIS MEANS THAT ALL THE SCREENSHOTS AND VIDEOS YOU'VE SEEN SO FAR ARE THE WORST QUALITY POSSIBLE. THE GAME WILL LOOK MUCH BETTER UPON RELEASE.
I see you making all these stupid comments everywhere with nothing to back it up compaired to clear proof from players here in the now.
If it ain't available now, it ain't available tonight or anytime soon. Period.
Why would they turn off most GFX options and distance sliders at release, just to make it look like crap and feed the negative publicity even more?
I know why! Because there ain't more distance drawing and there ain't more GFX available.
What you see is what you get!
This is the exact same crap people were spouting on the WAR forums back in August/september last year, about how many GFX features were still turned off and that lot of textures and animations weren't finished yet, but will be magically available at launch.
How funny that when I left 4 months later in January this year, WAR was the exact same as it was at launch.
So stop your bullshit in spewing out unproven and false information, while the evidence is loud and clear here in front of us!
My appologies for the rant! But this had to be said!
I am not sure what you are asking. There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something), but the light cycles take awhile to wait on and I had an Ork periodically attacking me while my game was minimized from the screenshot software. As far as I know very few testers have ever seen weather effects aside from atmospheric fog (weather has primarily been turned off in beta).
so the "fog" we see is not the old, tried, tested method of artificially hiding the drawing of scenery, but is instead "atmospheric fog" produced by the weather system?
Anyway, IMO the draw distance is dreadful. As posted already, look at WW2 online, that has some truly brilliant draw distances.
Today or tonight, or tomorrow or tomorrow night is launch time, I hope for some of your sakes that the infamous "beta - debug - option disabled" stuff will be ON in your new client builds.
GL DF fans.
read a few lines up... actually i'll repost it here in bold so not so many people miss it.
Texures, Clip Range, and Antialiasing are all Low, Low, and Off during the debug beta.
edit: since people tend to need things spelled out to them around here....
- THIS MEANS THAT ALL THE SCREENSHOTS AND VIDEOS YOU'VE SEEN SO FAR ARE THE WORST QUALITY POSSIBLE. THE GAME WILL LOOK MUCH BETTER UPON RELEASE.
OHHH... THANKS FoR tHe HEADS UP..!!!oneoneone
I was replying to the person I quoted. If you bothered to read what he said. Perhaps I should SPELL IT OUT FOR
YOU
"There are fog effects and had I taken that screenshot at a different time of day I might have been able to see further (I think it was dusk or dawn or something),"
So, again GL darkfall fans except YOU, I hope your net connection goes down just as you log in
.
Why is this game still in debug mode. silly AV they sould get there act together.
BTW debug mode sounds like an excuse at this point in the game.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
yeabelh 3 weeks and the shows over I can't believe it either and it feels like they are trying to cram way too much into the end of the show I hope they stick to their guns and get us a few dvd movies from bsg like they did with stargate. Now onto darkfall, what exactly is the hype about this game? It's another hack slash elf bleh game. I'd kill for a bsg mmo. Actually I'm in line for jumpgate and star ttrek
so say we all
Sounds like the escuses that were made for Horizons, Dark & Light, Vanguard, Hellgate London, etc., etc,. Face it guys, what you see is what you get.
And the fact they never once had a stress test should worry you. A competent MMO developer uses the last couple weeks before release to overload the servers and break stuff in order to handle as large a crowd as possible at launch. They don't hide the flaws behind a limited launch.
Crash and burn is what my crystal ball shows.
So you're saying upon release, the sliders for anti aliasing will just be for show. The graphics option of low medium and high is just there like a minigame, it doesn't the visual experience of the gamer..... way to disregard logic in favor of your emotion, woman.
So you're saying upon release, the sliders for anti aliasing will just be for show. The graphics option of low medium and high is just there like a minigame, it doesn't the visual experience of the gamer..... way to disregard logic in favor of your emotion, woman.
Logic states that AV would show off there game in all it's glory at this point in time (after NDA drop). Have they ? Please tell me they have not.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
No, I am saying that in the beta client they are just for show, just like the DX10 checkbox in the AoC beta client was just for show. I have been around long enough to have seen this exact scenario played out several times. If it isn't working 1 day before launch, then it won't be working at launch.
Three possible scenarios here:
1: Game launches, players notice that all the stuff they were promised at launch is still missing. Much qq happens.
2: Game launches, all these features are turned on. Performance sucks because it was never tested properly. Much qq happens.
3: By some miracle, all the missing stuff is turned on and works perfectly even though history shows that is very unlikely. I eat my words.
Oh, and who is ignoring logic and letting emotion cloud judgement? The one who is looking at the history of the industry and has seen these exact promises broken several times, or the person with no evidence to back his hopes for the game and so attempts to insult the bearer of bad news. Although, even though I am male, I fail to see how being a woman would be a negative thing. Way to display your misogony.
FYI, I was hoping this game would deliver. I wanted a harsh, skill-based sandbox. But instead it looks like we got a slow-paced FPS wanna-be with looting.
Nice UI, OMG, was it done by a 5 years old ? Geez, took them 8 years to make this game and this is what they come up with ?
Least the rabid fanboys wont be able to use the "it's in debug mode" excuse.
Jah Rasta For I.
The Wicked Shall Fall..
http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg
"AoC of course with the same issue"
I never had the frame rate issues other people had while playing AoC, and I COULD see player movement from positions shown in the AoC screenshot. In a PvP game seeing the enemy is everything.
Arra Jinx
So you're saying upon release, the sliders for anti aliasing will just be for show. The graphics option of low medium and high is just there like a minigame, it doesn't the visual experience of the gamer..... way to disregard logic in favor of your emotion, woman.
Dude, this was the same as with AoC and WAR.
People complained about it just after launch why sertain features weren't working and a patch later the features had magically dissapeared.
Remember that people were saying that in WAR everything was fixed on medium setting during Beta as for so called Testing purposes?
At least with AoC they actually have DX10 now on Test Live. But that's almost a year after launch lol.
There is no reason to dissable GFX features and keep them dissabled until launch if these features exist! That's just bullshit.
I am beta testing a sertain MMO right now in Closed Beta and several GFX features like Advanced Post FX and Shadows is horribly bugged and a huge resource hog on the client.
Yet they don't dissable these features, because they want error logs, bug reports and feedback so they can fix it!
So get a grip and wake up! What you now see is what you get! Period!
Need a link to the BSG rp area in Second Life?
http://slurl.com/secondlife/BSG21/222/217/155
Hell I can even introduce you to the guy that built the Pacifica in SL
Sorry to derail the train ... now back to your regularly scheduled DFO fix.
Arra Jinx
Be intresting if a) they get turned on tonight and b) how much performance goes through the floor.