... In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles. Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Please don't try to use real measurements like km or miles.
Use travel time.
Here's why:
Games like WWIIoL and PotBS use real world settings. If you convert travel times to miles then you will derail the whole thead when people start quoting distances from the atlas - which is not relevent.
Besides which... on that basis EvE will always be the biggest... it spans Light Years.
Edit: No...it won't! Stargate Worlds could span galaxies!?
Bah, EVE Online still reigns for largest game "world"
About 5500 systems * (1AU (93 million miles) * AU distance of planets) Obviously my math sucks, but you get the point. But it's kind of stupid comparing a galaxy to a land mass(es).
I would put Vanguard or Anarchy Online as two of the biggest MMO maps I've seen, really hard to determine the exact size though.
EVE 8is big, but objects are not in scale; so in the end what you get is just a big vacuum with a long travel time. (i.e. when closing in on planets the planet doesn't grow in size beyond a certain point. )
Vanguard is big, but DF is probably quite bigger. And that alone is both exciting and worrisome.
I believe Agon is MUCH bigger than what is shown in the picture. It takes me 3-5 minutes to run through a zone in WoW. Try to run through Elwynn Forest and then across Redridge Mountains (which is across the entire continent). I swear, it will take you AT MOST 10 minutes. You may even be able to do it in 7-8 minutes. Agon will take longer to run across percentage-wise, than what is shown in the picture.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Rofl, that is preposterous! 18 mins on Elwynn! What a load of BS - and obviously you didn't provide a link to back up that ridicilous claim.
Luckily that experiment is incredibly easy to repeat. Too bad I don't have WoW installed.
Btw. you don't need to "run across Elwynn" like from corner to corner. Just run along the road from Westfall until you reach Redridge, and then continue across Redridge as far east you can. The point is to prove how long it will take to cross the continent.
I believe Agon is MUCH bigger than what is shown in the picture. It takes me 3-5 minutes to run through a zone in WoW. Try to run through Elwynn Forest and then across Redridge Mountains (which is across the entire continent). I swear, it will take you AT MOST 10 minutes. You may even be able to do it in 7-8 minutes. Agon will take longer to run across percentage-wise, than what is shown in the picture.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Rofl, that is preposterous! 18 mins on Elwynn! What a load of BS - and obviously you didn't provide a link to back up that ridicilous claim.
Luckily that experiment is incredibly easy to repeat. Too bad I don't have WoW installed.
Btw. you don't need to "run across Elwynn" like from corner to corner. Just run along the road from Westfall until you reach Redridge, and then continue across Redridge as far east you can. The point is to prove how long it will take to cross the continent.
He did backup his claim. He gave the exact source.
He also did say from the entrance of westfall to the entrance of redrige mountains, wich is along the road.
You have trouble reading? Or are your eyes just a bit to wet at the moment?
I would not compare it to WOW because WOW is not the mmorpg out that that holds the biggest land size, Vanguard is. You could fit every EQ1 expansion plus the main island into Vanguard 2-3 times. WOW could fit into Vanguards map over 10 times.
Tasos claiming DF will be the biggest is BS IMO.First off ,D&L was the biggest even though it was a crock of shit ,it was still the biggest's. Vanguard now holds that crown and it is a vast world indeed. The only thing that makes it seem smaller than when it firsts came out is the riftways which take you to far reaching areas or you can fly their on your flying mount.
Vanguard Maps..Each square on each map represents 2.5 square miles.
Like DF world, you can go anywhere, if you can see it then you can reach it. You can see for miles on a clear day unlike the vids and screens i have seen of DF which seem very misty far off. I6 races all with theyre own starting areas should tell you something.
Before anyone says it, we are talking about the size of the world not if Vanguard is any good, even though that`s down to opinion.
I would not compare it to WOW because WOW is not the mmorpg out that that holds the biggest land size, Vanguard is. You could fit every EQ1 expansion plus the main island into Vanguard 2-3 times. WOW could fit into Vanguards map over 10 times.
Tasos claiming DF will be the biggest is BS IMO.First off ,D&L was the biggest even though it was a crock of shit ,it was still the biggest's. Vanguard now holds that crown and it is a vast world indeed. The only thing that makes it seem smaller than when it firsts came out is the riftways which take you to far reaching areas or you can fly their on your flying mount. Vanguard Maps..Each square on each map represents 2.5 square miles. Thestra Island Forests and cold northern mountains vanguard.mmosite.com/gameinfo/map/thestra.shtml Qalia Desert land vanguard.mmosite.com/gameinfo/map/qalia.shtml Kojani( this isles is only half finished,it`s meant to be tripple this) vanguard.mmosite.com/gameinfo/map/kojan.shtml
Like DF world, you can go anywhere, if you can see it then you can reach it. You can see for miles on a clear day unlike the vids and screens i have seen of DF which seem very misty far off. I6 races all with theyre own starting areas should tell you something. Before anyone says it, we are talking about the size of the world not if Vanguard is any good, even though that`s down to opinion.
I dont care if Darkfall would have the biggest map or Vanguard or any other over hyped game, they all turned out to be crap. HEY look we have a big map, our game must be good.....NOT!.
Whats the point in having a huge map, if u never meet anyone? If the map was going to be huge, the game wold have to have millions and millions of players to justify its size.
You really think DF map is going to be full of NPC mobs and loads of quests/content? Sandbox games especially games like DF are mostly empty worlds.DF will be an empty world and not much of anything else until the players can start building cities and so on. Tasos says their is plenty of PVE, i bet my bottom dollar their is hardly any.
I would say that some people who have only just got on the DF wagon will be very surprised at the lack of content they will find in DF. Yes hand holding is a bummer but many people are used to some hand holding even if its minimal.
Its the players that will shape the world so the devs don't have to put much content into the game,this will seriously shock those who think DF is going to be full of lovely PVE content as well as PVP.
As for meeting people in VG, you meet people all the time and the game is full of content,their is so much content that you are actually lost in what to do. Like i said in my first post,this was not about which game is better, it was about the size of the map.
You are deluding yourself if you think DF wont be an empty map.
I believe Agon is MUCH bigger than what is shown in the picture. It takes me 3-5 minutes to run through a zone in WoW. Try to run through Elwynn Forest and then across Redridge Mountains (which is across the entire continent). I swear, it will take you AT MOST 10 minutes. You may even be able to do it in 7-8 minutes. Agon will take longer to run across percentage-wise, than what is shown in the picture.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
heh,ive got that issue.Im going to dig it out and have a look.
I believe Agon is MUCH bigger than what is shown in the picture. It takes me 3-5 minutes to run through a zone in WoW. Try to run through Elwynn Forest and then across Redridge Mountains (which is across the entire continent). I swear, it will take you AT MOST 10 minutes. You may even be able to do it in 7-8 minutes. Agon will take longer to run across percentage-wise, than what is shown in the picture.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Doing the same maths, I found out about 120 square miles for the continent of Agon. I used a 7mph speed because travel times were measured with sprinting characters. However, I really think that a number like that means nothing, as there are too many other factors that make the world appear larger or smaller. Do the character move as fast as they do on WoW ? I think not, they move slower. You got a world full of life like WoW or a giant barren ? Looking at the leaks, it seems the best bet would be on the latter. So I think that the world will "geographically" be quite bigger than WoW's (we're talking about almost double size of Azeroth just for the main continent, so if you factor in the islands and the navigable, I think it is safe to assume a 3:1 size factor), but it will be as big as Azeroth or even smaller, content-wise.
The magazine used 'walking' speed in WOW, which is very slow. I don't think anyone uses it ingame except for NPC during escort quests.
But the size of the map really tells you nothing if most of the terrain has no character. Anyone who ever used NWN editor knows that throwing down a map is by far the quickest and easiest part of designing a game.
I believe Agon is MUCH bigger than what is shown in the picture. It takes me 3-5 minutes to run through a zone in WoW. Try to run through Elwynn Forest and then across Redridge Mountains (which is across the entire continent). I swear, it will take you AT MOST 10 minutes. You may even be able to do it in 7-8 minutes. Agon will take longer to run across percentage-wise, than what is shown in the picture.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Rofl, that is preposterous! 18 mins on Elwynn! What a load of BS - and obviously you didn't provide a link to back up that ridicilous claim.
Luckily that experiment is incredibly easy to repeat. Too bad I don't have WoW installed.
Btw. you don't need to "run across Elwynn" like from corner to corner. Just run along the road from Westfall until you reach Redridge, and then continue across Redridge as far east you can. The point is to prove how long it will take to cross the continent.
He did backup his claim. He gave the exact source.
He also did say from the entrance of westfall to the entrance of redrige mountains, wich is along the road.
You have trouble reading? Or are your eyes just a bit to wet at the moment?
Umm, no he didn't. When he provides a link, he has given "the exact source".
Why don't we just test it? There must be plenty of WoW players, we just need one to repeat the test.
The magazine used 'walking' speed in WOW, which is very slow. I don't think anyone uses it ingame except for NPC during escort quests. But the size of the map really tells you nothing if most of the terrain has no character. Anyone who ever used NWN editor knows that throwing down a map is by far the quickest and easiest part of designing a game.
Walking speed could explain it. Lucky that the chars can't crawl, then they would probably have used that
That is why you need a source guys! Don't believe just any BS someone might write up.
Okay. Really geeky day today but here are some results.
I started with World War II On Line: Battleground Europe (WWIIoL) because I figured this would be huge and would also help to demonstrate why times are more important than distances measured in km or miles. Measuring in these units can lead to considerable confusion. Read on to see why.
WWIIoL has a massive map . It stretches from Ireland in the west to Sweden in the East and from Norway in the North to Switzerland in the South. That said, most of that land is barren. It is only the middle of that area that has towns and terrain.
Measuring the size is easy because it is a real world setting. The total map is approx 900km x 750km {560miles x 470miles}.
Of that however only about 550km x 300km {340miles x 190miles} is properly mapped with towns and roads and vegetation.
This is where we also start to see why using real world measures breaks down... this so far really tells you very little.
So, on to giving you something useful to work with:
A couple of patches ago the WWIIoL theatre map had a radar function added and the map was broken into a grid.
The total map is 63 x 57 grid squares. The developed part of that is approx 19 1/2 x 10 1/2 grid squares.
So, I set out with a rifleman from Antwerp to run toward Brussels which is a little over a 'grid square' away.
It took 70 minutes to cross a grid square on autorun (no sprinting).
That means that the developed WWIIoL map would take about 22 3/4 hours to run across W-E and about 12 1/2 hours N-S.
So, based on the info given on the Darkfall Travel times the WWIIoL map (the developed part) is more than 20 times bigger than Agon.
Based on the PC Gamer calculations the WWIIoL map (the developed part) is about 80 miles x 44 miles = 3,520 square miles or about 50 times the size of Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdoor in WoW.
It's a huge map. However, you don't quest on that map and in MMO terms there are very few features (no crafting, questing etc)
Next I measured Pirates of the Burning Sea (PotBS).
Another real world setting. This time it is the entire Caribbean. From Mexico in the West to Guyana in the East and Charleston in the North to Panama in the South.
In real world terms this is approx 4000km x 3000km {2500miles x 1900miles}.
And using this would suggest that it is in fact twenty times bigger again than the WWIIoL map?
Only it isn't.
The game world in this case has been shrunk down and compressed to make travel times more reasonable.
So, in game terms how big is it?
Well, in this case you cannot 'run' as the basic unit is a ship.
So, I took a level one character in a Halifax Schooner (no buffs) and sailed from the coast NE of Charlesfort (Charleston) to the eastern edge of the map (about 1/2 way across the entire map W-E) and then south to Guyana (which is the entire distance N-S) This route also avoided the 'trade currents' (speed buff).
My times were 20mins on the first leg and 25 minutes on the second leg (the hardest part getting a favorable wind!)
This suggests that the PotBS map is about 40mins x 25mins which translates to approx 2.3miles x 1.5miles = 3.5 square miles using the PC Gamer conversion.
That makes the PotBS world about 20 times smaller than the Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdoor in WoW.
But, it's more confusing still because the PotBS world is a hybrid of instances involving some character Avatar and some ship Avatar travel...
So, I hope that all makes sense?
I also hope it illustrates why I think measuring the size of MMO 'worlds' should be done using travel times of a basic unit.
Converting that to a distance in kilometres or miles can lead to considerable confusion of the argument!
It's fun because some months ago, the title of an official screenshot was saying that Agon was "the size of Germany", then a dev has said it took "8 hours" to cross the continent, then a month ago another poster on forumfall has posted another map comparing Agon and Azeroth (based on the leak saying it took 3 hours to travel from starter orc town to the coast). And of course his full Azeroth was about 5 times smaller than "Kalimdor" on this one.
The closer the game is from release the more Agon shrinks. If they postpone release one more time it will end as big as thePapal State.
It reminds me of Telon, the vanguard world with "the size of Madagascar" (according to a dev a year before release) ... "I wanted to say nearly as big as Corsica," (according to the same 3 months before release)... (anyway this world was huge)
Anyway, as the 40k square kilometer of the DnL world have showed, the biggest is rarely the best.
Heh, well first off, try comparing to a game that has actual access to all parts of the visual map. A good comparison would be (hush it) Dark and Light, and also Vanguard, both having two of the largest "play fields" in an MMO today. Ok ok DnL only recently closed it's doors to the rest of teh world except China, but at the time, heh........
I still think DnL would win this hands down (given all kingdoms and areas were unlocked) take all the different equations you want to, but the VWorld tech is a to scale engine capable of "play fields" as big as the entire planet Earth.
Yah, so blah blah blah.......and after 8 friggin years, there better be content and life in DFs supposed vastness, I mean.....not sporatic, like teeming with teh stuff, nod nod......./chuckle
I believe Agon is MUCH bigger than what is shown in the picture. It takes me 3-5 minutes to run through a zone in WoW. Try to run through Elwynn Forest and then across Redridge Mountains (which is across the entire continent). I swear, it will take you AT MOST 10 minutes. You may even be able to do it in 7-8 minutes. Agon will take longer to run across percentage-wise, than what is shown in the picture.
Five minutes to run through a zone? Okay...maybe I'll buy that (if you're running in a straight line from one edge to the other of a SINGLE zone) yet it still sounds a bit fishy considering the size of SOME zones. BUT....how many zones are there, on how many continents, and some of them, i.e. Storm Peaks, cannot be "run through" at all, you'd have to have a combination of a flying mount and land mount to even COVER the land masses.
There are four actual continents, many random and hidden islands, and I don't know how many "zones."
If you're really interested.....WoWWiki probably can give you a decent idea. The game world is not in any way "small" as some have eluded.
This is a rather speculative thread, being no one can even MEASURE land mass in Darkfall, as it's not a RELEASED game yet. So "comparing" it to ANYTHING is futile.
Note: BTW....Kalimdor is ONE continent out of four, it is not the entirety of the game's land mass.
Your last point is spot on, but still.....the comparrison is weak......WoW = zoning, I.E. they can make a map all they want, but it isn't ever going to be to scale for real, as your in a ZONE, heh......the to scale is gonna be off to begin with, both DnL and VG, were seemless......well, VG you "chunk" but your talking about a sec or so of hick up from ANY point on the map to the next "chunk", and DnL was straight up seemless, no zoning, load times, what you saw is what you got.......so.......regardless if we can give a real comparrison to something else, when the data for one of said comparrisons isn't available.........you all could still speculate with comparrisons that are actually viable.
I believe Agon is MUCH bigger than what is shown in the picture. It takes me 3-5 minutes to run through a zone in WoW. Try to run through Elwynn Forest and then across Redridge Mountains (which is across the entire continent). I swear, it will take you AT MOST 10 minutes. You may even be able to do it in 7-8 minutes. Agon will take longer to run across percentage-wise, than what is shown in the picture.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Rofl, that is preposterous! 18 mins on Elwynn! What a load of BS - and obviously you didn't provide a link to back up that ridicilous claim.
Luckily that experiment is incredibly easy to repeat. Too bad I don't have WoW installed.
Btw. you don't need to "run across Elwynn" like from corner to corner. Just run along the road from Westfall until you reach Redridge, and then continue across Redridge as far east you can. The point is to prove how long it will take to cross the continent.
He did backup his claim. He gave the exact source.
He also did say from the entrance of westfall to the entrance of redrige mountains, wich is along the road.
You have trouble reading? Or are your eyes just a bit to wet at the moment?
Umm, no he didn't. When he provides a link, he has given "the exact source".
Why don't we just test it? There must be plenty of WoW players, we just need one to repeat the test.
How could he possibly give a link to a magazine?
I could test it for you, but what good will it do? What number of minutes would I have to post for you to not call that test BS?
The only way you will believe how long it takes if you test it yourself.
I might test it anyway, since this made me curious enough, but I honestly dont expect you to believe the result when I post it. You seem to have made your decision already.
Edit: It takes 7 minutes to run from redrige mountains to westfall, taking the road that crosses trough elwyn forrest.
Seems the magazine was way off (they must have walked, but who walks? everyone runs).
And you were also way off with 3-4 minutes.
Ah well, like I said before, you won't believe it anyway until you test it yourself.
Comments
Please don't try to use real measurements like km or miles.
Use travel time.
Here's why:
Games like WWIIoL and PotBS use real world settings. If you convert travel times to miles then you will derail the whole thead when people start quoting distances from the atlas - which is not relevent.
Besides which... on that basis EvE will always be the biggest... it spans Light Years.
Edit: No...it won't! Stargate Worlds could span galaxies!?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
i bet DnL map was even bigger...
This is like an epeen contest, only with maps.
My map is bigger than yours, son!
OH SNAP!
Dark and Light was HUGE too.
LOL.
If you don't see my point, then just move on.
- Zaxx
Yes, Dark and Light was the biggest world there is. According to the description of DnL on mmorpg.com.
I'm sure the WoW continents FEEL very small compared to DnL.
What does it actually mean to have a big world? Absolutely nothing, if you fail to populate it with players.
If the DF world is 5 times as big as a WoW continent, then the game will need 5 times as many concurrent users, else the world will feel empty.
Big world in sandbox game = not possitive at all.
EVE 8is big, but objects are not in scale; so in the end what you get is just a big vacuum with a long travel time. (i.e. when closing in on planets the planet doesn't grow in size beyond a certain point. )
Vanguard is big, but DF is probably quite bigger. And that alone is both exciting and worrisome.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Rofl, that is preposterous! 18 mins on Elwynn! What a load of BS - and obviously you didn't provide a link to back up that ridicilous claim.
Luckily that experiment is incredibly easy to repeat. Too bad I don't have WoW installed.
Btw. you don't need to "run across Elwynn" like from corner to corner. Just run along the road from Westfall until you reach Redridge, and then continue across Redridge as far east you can. The point is to prove how long it will take to cross the continent.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Rofl, that is preposterous! 18 mins on Elwynn! What a load of BS - and obviously you didn't provide a link to back up that ridicilous claim.
Luckily that experiment is incredibly easy to repeat. Too bad I don't have WoW installed.
Btw. you don't need to "run across Elwynn" like from corner to corner. Just run along the road from Westfall until you reach Redridge, and then continue across Redridge as far east you can. The point is to prove how long it will take to cross the continent.
He did backup his claim. He gave the exact source.
He also did say from the entrance of westfall to the entrance of redrige mountains, wich is along the road.
You have trouble reading? Or are your eyes just a bit to wet at the moment?
I would not compare it to WOW because WOW is not the mmorpg out that that holds the biggest land size, Vanguard is. You could fit every EQ1 expansion plus the main island into Vanguard 2-3 times. WOW could fit into Vanguards map over 10 times.
Tasos claiming DF will be the biggest is BS IMO.First off ,D&L was the biggest even though it was a crock of shit ,it was still the biggest's. Vanguard now holds that crown and it is a vast world indeed. The only thing that makes it seem smaller than when it firsts came out is the riftways which take you to far reaching areas or you can fly their on your flying mount.
Vanguard Maps..Each square on each map represents 2.5 square miles.
Thestra Island Forests and cold northern mountains vanguard.mmosite.com/gameinfo/map/thestra.shtml
Qalia Desert land vanguard.mmosite.com/gameinfo/map/qalia.shtml
Kojani( this isles is only half finished,it`s meant to be tripple this) vanguard.mmosite.com/gameinfo/map/kojan.shtml
Like DF world, you can go anywhere, if you can see it then you can reach it. You can see for miles on a clear day unlike the vids and screens i have seen of DF which seem very misty far off. I6 races all with theyre own starting areas should tell you something.
Before anyone says it, we are talking about the size of the world not if Vanguard is any good, even though that`s down to opinion.
How big "in time" travel I do not know. But geographical details in DF map do not show a very big map or are really exagerated and out of scale.
I dont care if Darkfall would have the biggest map or Vanguard or any other over hyped game, they all turned out to be crap. HEY look we have a big map, our game must be good.....NOT!.
Whats the point in having a huge map, if u never meet anyone? If the map was going to be huge, the game wold have to have millions and millions of players to justify its size.
You really think DF map is going to be full of NPC mobs and loads of quests/content? Sandbox games especially games like DF are mostly empty worlds.DF will be an empty world and not much of anything else until the players can start building cities and so on. Tasos says their is plenty of PVE, i bet my bottom dollar their is hardly any.
I would say that some people who have only just got on the DF wagon will be very surprised at the lack of content they will find in DF. Yes hand holding is a bummer but many people are used to some hand holding even if its minimal.
Its the players that will shape the world so the devs don't have to put much content into the game,this will seriously shock those who think DF is going to be full of lovely PVE content as well as PVP.
As for meeting people in VG, you meet people all the time and the game is full of content,their is so much content that you are actually lost in what to do. Like i said in my first post,this was not about which game is better, it was about the size of the map.
You are deluding yourself if you think DF wont be an empty map.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
heh,ive got that issue.Im going to dig it out and have a look.
/shout WTB Port 10g pst!!
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Doing the same maths, I found out about 120 square miles for the continent of Agon. I used a 7mph speed because travel times were measured with sprinting characters.
However, I really think that a number like that means nothing, as there are too many other factors that make the world appear larger or smaller.
Do the character move as fast as they do on WoW ? I think not, they move slower.
You got a world full of life like WoW or a giant barren ? Looking at the leaks, it seems the best bet would be on the latter.
So I think that the world will "geographically" be quite bigger than WoW's (we're talking about almost double size of Azeroth just for the main continent, so if you factor in the islands and the navigable, I think it is safe to assume a 3:1 size factor), but it will be as big as Azeroth or even smaller, content-wise.
The magazine used 'walking' speed in WOW, which is very slow. I don't think anyone uses it ingame except for NPC during escort quests.
But the size of the map really tells you nothing if most of the terrain has no character. Anyone who ever used NWN editor knows that throwing down a map is by far the quickest and easiest part of designing a game.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Rofl, that is preposterous! 18 mins on Elwynn! What a load of BS - and obviously you didn't provide a link to back up that ridicilous claim.
Luckily that experiment is incredibly easy to repeat. Too bad I don't have WoW installed.
Btw. you don't need to "run across Elwynn" like from corner to corner. Just run along the road from Westfall until you reach Redridge, and then continue across Redridge as far east you can. The point is to prove how long it will take to cross the continent.
He did backup his claim. He gave the exact source.
He also did say from the entrance of westfall to the entrance of redrige mountains, wich is along the road.
You have trouble reading? Or are your eyes just a bit to wet at the moment?
Umm, no he didn't. When he provides a link, he has given "the exact source".
Why don't we just test it? There must be plenty of WoW players, we just need one to repeat the test.
Walking speed could explain it. Lucky that the chars can't crawl, then they would probably have used that
That is why you need a source guys! Don't believe just any BS someone might write up.
Okay. Really geeky day today but here are some results.
I started with World War II On Line: Battleground Europe (WWIIoL) because I figured this would be huge and would also help to demonstrate why times are more important than distances measured in km or miles. Measuring in these units can lead to considerable confusion. Read on to see why.
WWIIoL has a massive map . It stretches from Ireland in the west to Sweden in the East and from Norway in the North to Switzerland in the South. That said, most of that land is barren. It is only the middle of that area that has towns and terrain.
Measuring the size is easy because it is a real world setting. The total map is approx 900km x 750km {560miles x 470miles}.
Of that however only about 550km x 300km {340miles x 190miles} is properly mapped with towns and roads and vegetation.
This is where we also start to see why using real world measures breaks down... this so far really tells you very little.
So, on to giving you something useful to work with:
A couple of patches ago the WWIIoL theatre map had a radar function added and the map was broken into a grid.
The total map is 63 x 57 grid squares. The developed part of that is approx 19 1/2 x 10 1/2 grid squares.
So, I set out with a rifleman from Antwerp to run toward Brussels which is a little over a 'grid square' away.
It took 70 minutes to cross a grid square on autorun (no sprinting).
That means that the developed WWIIoL map would take about 22 3/4 hours to run across W-E and about 12 1/2 hours N-S.
So, based on the info given on the Darkfall Travel times the WWIIoL map (the developed part) is more than 20 times bigger than Agon.
Based on the PC Gamer calculations the WWIIoL map (the developed part) is about 80 miles x 44 miles = 3,520 square miles or about 50 times the size of Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdoor in WoW.
It's a huge map. However, you don't quest on that map and in MMO terms there are very few features (no crafting, questing etc)
Next I measured Pirates of the Burning Sea (PotBS).
Another real world setting. This time it is the entire Caribbean. From Mexico in the West to Guyana in the East and Charleston in the North to Panama in the South.
In real world terms this is approx 4000km x 3000km {2500miles x 1900miles}.
And using this would suggest that it is in fact twenty times bigger again than the WWIIoL map?
Only it isn't.
The game world in this case has been shrunk down and compressed to make travel times more reasonable.
So, in game terms how big is it?
Well, in this case you cannot 'run' as the basic unit is a ship.
So, I took a level one character in a Halifax Schooner (no buffs) and sailed from the coast NE of Charlesfort (Charleston) to the eastern edge of the map (about 1/2 way across the entire map W-E) and then south to Guyana (which is the entire distance N-S) This route also avoided the 'trade currents' (speed buff).
My times were 20mins on the first leg and 25 minutes on the second leg (the hardest part getting a favorable wind!)
This suggests that the PotBS map is about 40mins x 25mins which translates to approx 2.3miles x 1.5miles = 3.5 square miles using the PC Gamer conversion.
That makes the PotBS world about 20 times smaller than the Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdoor in WoW.
But, it's more confusing still because the PotBS world is a hybrid of instances involving some character Avatar and some ship Avatar travel...
So, I hope that all makes sense?
I also hope it illustrates why I think measuring the size of MMO 'worlds' should be done using travel times of a basic unit.
Converting that to a distance in kilometres or miles can lead to considerable confusion of the argument!
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
It's fun because some months ago, the title of an official screenshot was saying that Agon was "the size of Germany", then a dev has said it took "8 hours" to cross the continent, then a month ago another poster on forumfall has posted another map comparing Agon and Azeroth (based on the leak saying it took 3 hours to travel from starter orc town to the coast). And of course his full Azeroth was about 5 times smaller than "Kalimdor" on this one.
The closer the game is from release the more Agon shrinks. If they postpone release one more time it will end as big as thePapal State.
It reminds me of Telon, the vanguard world with "the size of Madagascar" (according to a dev a year before release) ... "I wanted to say nearly as big as Corsica," (according to the same 3 months before release)... (anyway this world was huge)
Anyway, as the 40k square kilometer of the DnL world have showed, the biggest is rarely the best.
Heh, well first off, try comparing to a game that has actual access to all parts of the visual map. A good comparison would be (hush it) Dark and Light, and also Vanguard, both having two of the largest "play fields" in an MMO today. Ok ok DnL only recently closed it's doors to the rest of teh world except China, but at the time, heh........
I still think DnL would win this hands down (given all kingdoms and areas were unlocked) take all the different equations you want to, but the VWorld tech is a to scale engine capable of "play fields" as big as the entire planet Earth.
Yah, so blah blah blah.......and after 8 friggin years, there better be content and life in DFs supposed vastness, I mean.....not sporatic, like teeming with teh stuff, nod nod......./chuckle
Damn you DFORacle, you were typing faster then I was.......pffft
Hmmm
Five minutes to run through a zone? Okay...maybe I'll buy that (if you're running in a straight line from one edge to the other of a SINGLE zone) yet it still sounds a bit fishy considering the size of SOME zones. BUT....how many zones are there, on how many continents, and some of them, i.e. Storm Peaks, cannot be "run through" at all, you'd have to have a combination of a flying mount and land mount to even COVER the land masses.
There are four actual continents, many random and hidden islands, and I don't know how many "zones."
http://www.wowwiki.com/Zone
If you're really interested.....WoWWiki probably can give you a decent idea. The game world is not in any way "small" as some have eluded.
This is a rather speculative thread, being no one can even MEASURE land mass in Darkfall, as it's not a RELEASED game yet. So "comparing" it to ANYTHING is futile.
Note: BTW....Kalimdor is ONE continent out of four, it is not the entirety of the game's land mass.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Your last point is spot on, but still.....the comparrison is weak......WoW = zoning, I.E. they can make a map all they want, but it isn't ever going to be to scale for real, as your in a ZONE, heh......the to scale is gonna be off to begin with, both DnL and VG, were seemless......well, VG you "chunk" but your talking about a sec or so of hick up from ANY point on the map to the next "chunk", and DnL was straight up seemless, no zoning, load times, what you saw is what you got.......so.......regardless if we can give a real comparrison to something else, when the data for one of said comparrisons isn't available.........you all could still speculate with comparrisons that are actually viable.
PC Gamer calculated the size of Azeroth in their Holiday 2008 issue. It took them 18 minutes and 15 seconds to run accross Elwynn Forest, on foot, in a straight line (which wasn't easy to do according to them), from the entrance to Westfall to the entrance to Redridge mountains (or just a little north actually for the straight line to work). In that ammount of time, the average human walks at about 3.5 mph. After calculating it all out just Kalimdoor, and the Eastern Kingdom came out to 70 square miles.
Until people can start putting together data like that, this conversation isn't worth much. I think everyone on this forum can appreciate 70 square miles. For those who are still having trouble, it's about the size of Washington D.C.
Rofl, that is preposterous! 18 mins on Elwynn! What a load of BS - and obviously you didn't provide a link to back up that ridicilous claim.
Luckily that experiment is incredibly easy to repeat. Too bad I don't have WoW installed.
Btw. you don't need to "run across Elwynn" like from corner to corner. Just run along the road from Westfall until you reach Redridge, and then continue across Redridge as far east you can. The point is to prove how long it will take to cross the continent.
He did backup his claim. He gave the exact source.
He also did say from the entrance of westfall to the entrance of redrige mountains, wich is along the road.
You have trouble reading? Or are your eyes just a bit to wet at the moment?
Umm, no he didn't. When he provides a link, he has given "the exact source".
Why don't we just test it? There must be plenty of WoW players, we just need one to repeat the test.
How could he possibly give a link to a magazine?
I could test it for you, but what good will it do? What number of minutes would I have to post for you to not call that test BS?
The only way you will believe how long it takes if you test it yourself.
I might test it anyway, since this made me curious enough, but I honestly dont expect you to believe the result when I post it. You seem to have made your decision already.
Edit: It takes 7 minutes to run from redrige mountains to westfall, taking the road that crosses trough elwyn forrest.
Seems the magazine was way off (they must have walked, but who walks? everyone runs).
And you were also way off with 3-4 minutes.
Ah well, like I said before, you won't believe it anyway until you test it yourself.