Is the quest grind driving folks away from games?

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  • Salio69Salio69 under a rock, FLMember CommonPosts: 428

    i've always liked questing, it helps me get into the RPG part of the game unlike most who are just in the MMO part and just farm for easily obtainable "epic lewt" and pvp brags. for those of you are sick to death of questing, theres solutions out there for u. pick a random asian mmo and grind ur ass off to max lvl. u can also just go play strategy games or fps online. if ur not into questing, than RPGs isnt the genre for u. sorry to break it to u.

  • PatchDayPatchDay nonya, CAMember Posts: 1,641

    I hate QUESTS with a passion.

     

    I think there are so many alternatives to boring quest grinds. Building houses, cities, crafting, PvP, fight for land, fight for honor, fight for military ranks, fight against waves of NPCs to keep your towns safe, kill creatures for their raw materials, police your towns to keep it safe from vandals, robbing NPCs as they sleep, trading, takeover planets and put down defenses (like a puzzle) that an ambitious theif must unravel, Exploration, saving some random NPC from danger as you explore, treasure hunting, traveling to towns to town healing the sick and injured

     

    There is so many other things I could be doing.

    I can't take it anymore

    I've canceled all my subscriptions. Now- WAR I was tempted by cause you earn XP from PVP. Not a big fan of RvR but that appears to be leading contender for me

  • shadenisshadenis carombia, COMember Posts: 217
    Originally posted by Salio69


    i've always liked questing, it helps me get into the RPG part of the game unlike most who are just in the MMO part and just farm for easily obtainable "epic lewt" and pvp brags. for those of you are sick to death of questing, theres solutions out there for u. pick a random asian mmo and grind ur ass off to max lvl. u can also just go play strategy games or fps online. if ur not into questing, than RPGs isnt the genre for u. sorry to break it to u.

     

    You should play a korean grind fest free to play mmo.

    If you kill 10 boars, that has nothing to do with the story. If you deliver something, it has nothing to do with the lore.

    It is all stuff that is a time sink.

    You know what pve is?

    Events like demons attacking village and you all can protect it or just ignore so that the army of demons takes it. Story to follow, epic dungeons with traps etc.  housing, economy, politics name = ROLE PLAYING instead of what you prefer aka garbage tasking ( killing 10 bears quests).

     

    I rather have fun with what i just said then killing 10 bears and hopefully get a good reward because that SOUNDS like a korean grind fest and what i said doesn't and it sounds FUN!

    By the sound of it, you probably haven't played a real RPG. Try BG series, planetscape torment, icewind dale, the witcher.

    I am sure if you have played the good RPG'S you wouldn't have said that quests of the current mmo's are like a RPG.

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  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAMember UncommonPosts: 1,170
    Originally posted by sojobo69


    nothing wrong with quest, and guess what you have the choice not to do any if you love to grind. O and tell me the difference from I heard there was a under water cave to a city, then an NPC quest tells you hey i heard there is a cave to a city . if you go that way bring me a item and i will reward you a bit of coin. nothing you didn't find it yourself.Or i heard there is a big troll at the bottum of the cave. same point you heard it.. guess you not thinking for yourself still.
     
    Point is take quest if you like or don't . I love Lineage 2 but hate the grind so i don't play now. but a few quest in it would be great. gives both me and grinders a choice.
     
    PS. I think it would be cool to here someone in eq2 say lvl 80 and not 1 quest or collection done in my book. i would not do it, but hey i hate grinding. still be something to hear...

     

    That is why this thread has been started because you are forced to do quest to gain experience. I am okay with quest if they are optional but they are not in modern MMORPGs. Look at LOTRO the majority of your experience points comes from questing not killing monsters.

    The difference in having an npc tell you about the quest and you hearing about a neat place from an individual is you must go there in order to obtain experience and nonquest based you choose whether you want to explore it.

    Can't do that in LOTRO or you will not gain very much experience points at all, you need to follow the linear quest lines because it was designed that way to level. I believe no experience should come from quest. Maybe a quest provider gives you a little coin or an item for your reward. The experience should come from killing of monsters. That could adjusted to leveling at the same speed of all modern MMORPGs. It doesn't have to be as slow as it was in EQ even though I wouldn't mind.

  • KindelnolKindelnol Okahoma City, OKMember Posts: 62

    I have known for a long time that questing was at the core of my problems with current MMOs.

    For the person that said questing offers RPG elements - no, stories offer this. What games give us now is a laundry list of mindless tasks for no better reason than to gain XP.

    Epic quests, or quests made to get some special piece of treasure (not a piece of armor or a weapon that will be exchanged a couple days later) are the interesting ones that keep me coming. Most MMOs do not offer this these days. This is especially true with the lack of relevance over trophy items. Seriously, I used to perform quests not for a stat boost, but to know that I achieved something by gaining a special item, a trophy item, which I will display to others.

    I would also like to address those who say we do not have to do quests. It has already been said that devs make it the easiest way to gain level. I also think it is worth noting that for solo grind, most of us probably would prefer to do quests instead of grind by yourself.  What we want is group activities (the original intent of MMOs). You have group quests, but things have become so detached, at least for me, that not only do people prefer to simply solo, but finding a group for these quests can take so long that it is nearly worthless. If you wish to grind with a group, well, good luck finding one. Unless you are playing an older MMO that does not rely on questing, I doubt you will find people willing to do this. Some games, like WoW, actually hinder it.

    I haven't played too many Asian MMOs, but typically they seem to have little in the way of personal goals. The only point, from what I can tell, is grinding, and in many of them it is solo grinding (at least the ones I have played).

  • TatumTatum houston, TXMember Posts: 1,153

    I agree with most of the comments here.  "Quest trains" were not the right direction for MMOs.  I mean, I hated the endless mob grind as much as anyone else, but there are other solutions for that.  Make combat more excting and you remove the grinid.  Make the game about some thing other than just leveling and you remove the grind.  Exploring an open world and hunting mobs was fun...killing the same mob over and over wasn't.  So, just fix that issue.

    The problem with quests in MMOs is, well, they're really cheesy.  Even if you ignore all of the mindless task and chore quests you still have nothing but cheesy, static, scripted "story" quests.  Whats the point?  Every player goes through the exact same quest, along the exact same dotted line, with the exact same reward.  Theres no adventure in that and theirs definately nothing epic about that.  It might not be as boring as standing in one place, grinding on the same mobs, but it doesn't make we want to stick around for very long.  Theres just nothing immersive about that.  Honestly, it feels like a theme park.

    So, what are the solutions?  How about "worlds" that are more focused on player driven content?

  • RavanosRavanos Chicago, ILMember Posts: 897
    Originally posted by sojobo69


    nothing wrong with quest, and guess what you have the choice not to do any if you love to grind. O and tell me the difference from I heard there was a under water cave to a city, then an NPC quest tells you hey i heard there is a cave to a city . if you go that way bring me a item and i will reward you a bit of coin. nothing you didn't find it yourself.Or i heard there is a big troll at the bottum of the cave. same point you heard it.. guess you not thinking for yourself still.
     
    Point is take quest if you like or don't . I love Lineage 2 but hate the grind so i don't play now. but a few quest in it would be great. gives both me and grinders a choice.
     
    PS. I think it would be cool to here someone in eq2 say lvl 80 and not 1 quest or collection done in my book. i would not do it, but hey i hate grinding. still be something to hear...



     

    you couldn't do it in EQ2 because from 70 to 80 mob grinding gives you CRAP exp. honestly on my healer before the last expac ROK i had like 10 quests done and little to no collection quests turned in maybe 20. but then SOE listened to the Questers and made ROK quest xp so much better than dungeon crawling/mob grinding.

    if i remember the information correctly if i did a solo quest at level 75 i would get .5 to .7 exp just from the quest alone let alone the mobs i kill. if i took a full group into one of the dungeons and killed a 78 triple up heroic (for those unfamiliar with EQ2 that means they are the toughest group oriented mobs before Epic mobs) and get .01 xp per kill.

    so in reality No use mob grinders DONT have a choice, if we want to level quickly and efficiently we have to do quests.

    maybe i should start looking more into the asian grinder games where grouping and mob fighting is more improtant than killing 10 wombats for Ms. Gnomefield so she can bake wombat pie. I would rather have 10 super hard old school EQ1 epic style quests than 1000000 kill tasks.

  • PatchDayPatchDay nonya, CAMember Posts: 1,641
    Originally posted by Ravanos

    ....

    so in reality No use mob grinders DONT have a choice, if we want to level quickly and efficiently we have to do quests.
    maybe i should start looking more into the asian grinder games where grouping and mob fighting is more improtant than killing 10 wombats for Ms. Gnomefield so she can bake wombat pie. I would rather have 10 super hard old school EQ1 epic style quests than 1000000 kill tasks.

     

    That's why I had played EVE for so long because Missions rewards only give money and you could get much better pay doing other things. CCP is very good about not forcing players down linear paths

    That's the problem with Quests- they're pretty much mandatory becauser they give way more XP then pure mob killing

    Problem is we have lost freeform aspects. My problems with MMOs all boil down to questing pretty much. I do wish I could just farm mobs I do. That way if I want to just help a buddy I can and not worry about the Quest XP.

    On the other hand the Asian F2P MMOs I've tried took it way too far. The quests gave crap xp + mobs gave crap xp. Just seemed like those games are pure grinders.

    At least put a new spin on the grind, spice it up with something new

     

  • nomadiannomadian DevonMember Posts: 3,490

    I think someone's post in this thread made me realize it's the damn kill x mobs that really ruin it. In what logical roleplaying way does a npc ask a character to kill 20 boars..?

  • UWNVMEUWNVME Member UncommonPosts: 172

    Everytime I imagine myself quest grinding 70-80 in WOTLK, I remember why I will not be re-subscribing. Personally, I would like it if MMO developers would try going back to the old party-leveling system in pre-WoW MMOs. Grinding with a party in FFXI and DAOC was way more fun than doing some boring quests in today's MMOs.

  • shohenshohen Seattle, WAMember UncommonPosts: 61

    Besides FFXI, are there any fantasy mmo's out there that do away with the quest driven grind and focus more on group mob hunting and goal orientated quests (not kill x of y, but something like "I've heard there's this item in the bottom of x dungeon, but beware because its guarded by xxxxxx"?

     

    I miss grouping up and fighting on the plains in DAOC killing giants and the long complicated item quests from AC. DAOC has moved towards quest grinding now (they used to call it 'kill tasks', which you got from the guards) and AC just isn't the same anymore (that and i do like having more than just auto attack).

     

    Would love to have a decent looking 'WASD' game with these elements.

    ....
  • EvilGargamelEvilGargamel Boston, MAMember Posts: 85
    Originally posted by pencilrick


    I was trying to think of why I quit EQ2, Vanguard, WAR, and (periodically) WOW, and the point of annoyance that brought me to each decision was when I found myself loaded up with tons of mundane quests and no desire to do them.
    Rare quests are exciting.  A few quests are still cool.  But stacks upon stacks of quests become a chore.
    Don't do quests, you say?  Well, all folks tend to follow the path of least resistance, and so feel compelled to do these quests, but that doesn't mean they like it.
    Just like if someone threw a bunch of one dollar bills in the air, people might drop to their hands and knees to pick them up, but again that doesn't mean they enjoyed it.
    I, for one, am hoping new MMORPG's scale back on the quests.  Having a quest log with 20 quests to do is not fun for many.
     



     

    Yep.. They should get rid of all the stupid "Talk to Farmer joe and bring him some pies" quests.

    And make only Epic level quests. Or different tiers of quests. But all of them being long and interesting with Epic Boss MOBS.

  • tvalentinetvalentine San Clemente, CAMember Posts: 4,216

    i dont mind any grind in an MMO, unless its over the top and requires you to grind 1 week for 1 level.

    Grinding in MMORPGs is normal .... its how you level in MMORPGS, if any of you have a better system of leveling in a game, please by all means share it. You grind to level up, you level up to reach the end game content.

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  • RedwoodSapRedwoodSap Fenwick Island, DEMember Posts: 1,235

    I don't like the linear design of quest experience oriented MMOGs of today. It's boring and confined. I much prefer an open sandbox like classic EQ where you had some quests but most experience was earned from combat so you ended up exploring and grouping/soloing out in the open world at large.

    But as has been stated, you end up forced to run quests for the best experience in the current crop of games that are designed to reward those who do, so hunting only is not a reasonable option.

    I can't wait for Darkfall which should tip the scales towards old school design of rewarding combat with more experience than quests.

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  • KrimzenKrimzen Mays Landing, NJMember Posts: 28

    I have often thought that the most immersing and greatest joy of playing WoW was the instance system.  That is truly the most fun and least boring form of "grind."  You are making friends, getting experience, and getting nice loot by killing bosses together.

    But the problem with this seems to fit the same overall theme.  When we grind, we want to acheive the next level as fast as possible.  Its just human nature.  Do you want gratification sooner or later?

    The problem is that more times than not, your sitting there in a major city spamming the trade channel for 1-2 hours trying to assemble an instance group. An additional hour for everyone to show up and begin the instance, only for 1-2 crucial people to drop out within 30 minutes of the instance.

    So often times you are left with the thought:  "I could have leveled already by just questing or grinding."

    I've actually just started Maple Story.  The level cap in that is 200, so you know the grind will be more gratifying because each level shouldn't take 8 hours.  It's kind of cool having a 2D MMO, but I just started it so Im not sure if I like it yet.

  • KrimzenKrimzen Mays Landing, NJMember Posts: 28

    Honestly, alot of times it most fun just browsing the auction house and chilling in a major city standing there or walkingaround on your twink or your max level character.

  • ganbeeganbee manassas, VAMember Posts: 233

    Grinding or however you define it,

    I never minded grinding in certain games when there was big payoff! WOW,SWG,Neocron, 3 games never bothered me that much. The next sword or gun reward for leveling even if  you had to buy it off the auction house. I will tell you that waiting for a group to form like LOTRO or DDO, where you are waiting hours for a group to form due to class imbalance is the worst. The 3 games mention before I never had to wait like that, maby it was high server pop., or  more useful classes in the game. Lastly the games I mention, I found fun so it less of a chore, not like Asian grinders we see today. I played one and only, and compared to WOW it would have been triple the time just to see the good parts in the game(hence the item mall). Can't fault that though got to make money somehow.

  • Salio69Salio69 under a rock, FLMember CommonPosts: 428
    Originally posted by shadenis

    Originally posted by Salio69


    i've always liked questing, it helps me get into the RPG part of the game unlike most who are just in the MMO part and just farm for easily obtainable "epic lewt" and pvp brags. for those of you are sick to death of questing, theres solutions out there for u. pick a random asian mmo and grind ur ass off to max lvl. u can also just go play strategy games or fps online. if ur not into questing, than RPGs isnt the genre for u. sorry to break it to u.

     

    You should play a korean grind fest free to play mmo.

    If you kill 10 boars, that has nothing to do with the story. If you deliver something, it has nothing to do with the lore.

    It is all stuff that is a time sink.

    You know what pve is?

    Events like demons attacking village and you all can protect it or just ignore so that the army of demons takes it. Story to follow, epic dungeons with traps etc.  housing, economy, politics name = ROLE PLAYING instead of what you prefer aka garbage tasking ( killing 10 bears quests).

     

    I rather have fun with what i just said then killing 10 bears and hopefully get a good reward because that SOUNDS like a korean grind fest and what i said doesn't and it sounds FUN!

    By the sound of it, you probably haven't played a real RPG. Try BG series, planetscape torment, icewind dale, the witcher.

    I am sure if you have played the good RPG'S you wouldn't have said that quests of the current mmo's are like a RPG.

     

    sorry i've had to reread this thing serveral times to understand what you are saying? are you saying that quests dont have lore/story behind them? as for the rest of the jibberish you posted after that, i dont recall stating any of what u said. try to make up some better stuff on ur next try.

     

    one last thing, sounds to me like you might like a game called mabinogi. you can kill as many bears as u like, decorate you own house, craft lots of stuff, and even sit in the middle of town waiting for someone to attack while u proclaim yourself the mayor.

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