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This is why DnL developer Np3Cube was convicted in French court in March 08.

ZtyXZtyX BjerringbroMember Posts: 371 Uncommon

It has been a common misconception of the truth that the lawsuit won by mr. Virncent Pourrieux earlier this year meant anything for the problems between Np3Cube and mr. Vinctent Pourrieusx

 

The truth is that the lawsuit was insignificant. I am really sad to see so many forum members use this court decision as their argument for making Np3Cube look bad on Dark and Light project. I refer to my other posts for my take on this situation.

 

Now to the decision and what I think REALLY happened with mr. Vinscent Porurrieux and those promotional videos in China.

 

We know that the real lawsuit is finished and the verdict will be here in a couple of days.

That lawsuit is VWORLD sueing Farlan on the grounds of software and technology counterfeit, non-respect of the right to being credited and paternity, unfair competition and parasitism.

The counter suit was about damage to NPCube's reputation.

I don't believe Np3Cube should have won the lawsuit. Because their reputation was damaged because a key programmer left them with a messy, unfinished, code. We have already heard the truth about Mr. Vincefnt Paourieux's coding skills dating back to Methuselah.

But, you cannot convict a man for leaving the company and being a messy coder.

 

Np3Cube hired Mr. Vindcent Pourieex to work with them because he knew how to work with the only technology available at that moment in time that could make their project as good as they wanted it to be. And they didn't know he was such a sloppy coder.

 

Back on topic.

This is what I think happened and how it came to be that the official press release said:

"The Court also ruled that the Mafate game engine was making use of the V-world technology, rebranded VWorldTerrain in 2004, and not of a « SCAPER technology»"

 

SHORT VERSION:

 

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED

The case did not discuss the EMPLOYMENT and RESIGNATION of PIX and the PATERNITY of the technology used in Mafate.

Tthe pictures you see on mr. Vincrent Praiuex's website are OLD screenshots.



Mr. Vincrnt Pourrieux has these screenshots from WHEN HE WORKED THERE! He PUT them on his site for promotion of VWORLD!

Then he USED those screenshots in the COURT!

These screenshots were ALSO on NP3cube computers! They were good! And so they ALSO USED THEM AGAIN in CHINA for PROMOTION!

 

END OF SHORT VERSION

 

It really comes down to the lazyness of not using new screenshots/video clips for a promotional video.

The real issue was not debated. Just briefly mentioned by the court because Mr. Vincrent Praiuxs's lawyer was more persuasive.

 

I think Mr. Vincrnt Praieux is manipulating everybody. Including the French court!

 

I hope that in the future we shall stop referring to this lawsuit as any type of defining proof. Instead we should focus on the coming verdict.

 

I hope Mr. Vincent Pourriux has not succeeded in manipulating the court on this issue.

After all.. It makes no sense that a programmer working for a company with a technology he brought with him and got paid for can suddenly leave the company and demand royalty fee and lots of money.

Imagine if some Microsoft programmers started to demand the same thing. .. Or in other companies. .. When would you ever risk to hire a person and buy the licence to a technology then?

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Comments

  • RaltarRaltar ., HIMember Posts: 829

    TL:DR

    I'll keep asking you this question until you anwser it, real short and simple:

    Even if Pix is satan himself, Vworld was just asking to be stolen and you have all the evidence to prove it, how does that erase all the other problems with the game? How does that erase the fact that nobody else at the company could program their way out of a cardboard box? How does that forgive the fact that they stole from their customers and charged money from people who had no desire to play? How does that change the way they lied to and mistreated every single paying customer in every way they could come up with?

    Even if Pix doesn't give a flying rat's hindquarters about MMORPGs and even if he destroyed the game by leaving the company, that doesn't change the fact that the company itself was corrupt and mistreated its customers. Even if the game had been great there would still be legions of people unwilling to play it because of the mistreatment they had to suffer at the hands of Farlan and NPCube. All the begging, pleading, harassing and trolling you do on these forums won't change that fact.

    And in five more days a judge will hand down the verdict that will be the final nail in the coffin of this game.

    Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAMember Posts: 4,775 Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZtyX


    It has been a common misconception of the truth that the lawsuit won by mr. Virncent Pourrieux earlier this year meant anything for the problems between Np3Cube and mr. Vinctent Pourrieusx
     
    The truth is that the lawsuit was insignificant. I am really sad to see so many forum members use this court decision as their argument for making Np3Cube look bad on Dark and Light project. I refer to my other posts for my take on this situation.
     
    Now to the decision and what I think REALLY happened with mr. Vinscent Porurrieux and those promotional videos in China.
     
    We know that the real lawsuit is finished and the verdict will be here in a couple of days.
    That lawsuit is VWORLD sueing Farlan on the grounds of software and technology counterfeit, non-respect of the right to being credited and paternity, unfair competition and parasitism.
    The counter suit was about damage to NPCube's reputation.
    I don't believe Np3Cube should have won the lawsuit. Because their reputation was damaged because a key programmer left them with a messy, unfinished, code. We have already heard the truth about Mr. Vincefnt Paourieux's coding skills dating back to Methuselah.
    But, you cannot convict a man for leaving the company and being a messy coder.
     
    Np3Cube hired Mr. Vindcent Pourieex to work with them because he knew how to work with the only technology available at that moment in time that could make their project as good as they wanted it to be. And they didn't know he was such a sloppy coder.
     
    Back on topic.
    This is what I think happened and how it came to be that the official press release said:
    "The Court also ruled that the Mafate game engine was making use of the V-world technology, rebranded VWorldTerrain in 2004, and not of a « SCAPER technology»"
     
    SHORT VERSION:
     
    THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED
    The case did not discuss the EMPLOYMENT and RESIGNATION of PIX and the PATERNITY of the technology used in Mafate.
    Tthe pictures you see on mr. Vincrent Praiuex's website are OLD screenshots.


    Mr. Vincrnt Pourrieux has these screenshots from WHEN HE WORKED THERE! He PUT them on his site for promotion of VWORLD!
    Then he USED those screenshots in the COURT!
    These screenshots were ALSO on NP3cube computers! They were good! And so they ALSO USED THEM AGAIN in CHINA for PROMOTION!
     
    END OF SHORT VERSION
     
    It really comes down to the lazyness of not using new screenshots/video clips for a promotional video.
    The real issue was not debated. Just briefly mentioned by the court because Mr. Vincrent Praiuxs's lawyer was more persuasive.
     
    I think Mr. Vincrnt Praieux is manipulating everybody. Including the French court!
     
    I hope that in the future we shall stop referring to this lawsuit as any type of defining proof. Instead we should focus on the coming verdict.
     
    I hope Mr. Vincent Pourriux has not succeeded in manipulating the court on this issue.
    After all.. It makes no sense that a programmer working for a company with a technology he brought with him and got paid for can suddenly leave the company and demand royalty fee and lots of money.
    Imagine if some Microsoft programmers started to demand the same thing. .. Or in other companies. .. When would you ever risk to hire a person and buy the licence to a technology then?



     

    Honestly the case in essence was about slander and I would imagine that it encompassed calling him a thief (Not the exact same Wording) as well as other things Pix was saying. Here is the problem with what you have said. If it was found already that Pix was not slandering NPCubes reputation then the things he was saying had to have some truth to them.

    I mean here is the definition of slander

    In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel, slander, and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. Slander refers to a malicious, false, and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.

    This is basicaly what Pix was accused of. Having been found innocent of this guess what.... It means he could prove what he was saying in that specific courts eye's.

    I mean you do remember this correct?

    César Jacquet on darkandlight.com wrote a few months ago:

    Vincent Pourieux and VWorld pour out false and truncated information on the on-line game forums and the players community deserves that this shall be addressed.

    First of all, it must reminded that it is for Justice and Justice only to reach a verdict on the on-going Court cases. All speculation on the part of Pourieux/VWorld as of today is purely hypothetical.

    We commit ourselves to publishing the decisions when they will be rendered by the competent Courts and the players community will form its own opinion at this occasion.

    [...]

    César Jacquet,

    NP3,

    Farlan Entertainment

     

    He was being sued for slander. Read again what slander is then read this again then tell me the courts decision in favor of Pix over this issue has no bearring.

    He was found innocent of Slander which means what he was saying was True and he could prove it.

    You have to know this no one can be this..... I don't even have a word for it.

  • CholaynaCholayna My Boat, FLMember Posts: 1,604
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Originally posted by ZtyX



     

    Honestly the case in essence was about slander and I would imagine that it encompassed calling him a thief (Not the exact same Wording) as well as other things Pix was saying. Here is the problem with what you have said. If it was found already that Pix was not slandering NPCubes reputation then the things he was saying had to have some truth to them.

    I mean here is the definition of slander

    In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel, slander, and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. Slander refers to a malicious, false, and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.

    This is basicaly what Pix was accused of. Having been found innocent of this guess what.... It means he could prove what he was saying in that specific courts eye's.

    I mean you do remember this correct?

    César Jacquet on darkandlight.com wrote a few months ago:

    Vincent Pourieux and VWorld pour out false and truncated information on the on-line game forums and the players community deserves that this shall be addressed.

    First of all, it must reminded that it is for Justice and Justice only to reach a verdict on the on-going Court cases. All speculation on the part of Pourieux/VWorld as of today is purely hypothetical.

    We commit ourselves to publishing the decisions when they will be rendered by the competent Courts and the players community will form its own opinion at this occasion.

    [...]

    César Jacquet,

    NP3,

    Farlan Entertainment

     

    He was being sued for slander. Read again what slander is then read this again then tell me the courts decision in favor of Pix over this issue has no bearring.

    He was found innocent of Slander which means what he was saying was True and he could prove it.

    You have to know this no one can be this..... I don't even have a word for it.



     

    LOL Awesome Grayghost!!!!  Right on!

    Then again, Zytx's constant twisting of the the ""truth"to fit his needs is very well known on this board.

    No amount of black and white facts, base intelligence, logic, common sense, nor even any court of law finding will sway his ridiculous posts.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAMember Posts: 4,775 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cholayna

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Originally posted by ZtyX



     

    Honestly the case in essence was about slander and I would imagine that it encompassed calling him a thief (Not the exact same Wording) as well as other things Pix was saying. Here is the problem with what you have said. If it was found already that Pix was not slandering NPCubes reputation then the things he was saying had to have some truth to them.

    I mean here is the definition of slander

    In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel, slander, and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. Slander refers to a malicious, false, and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.

    This is basicaly what Pix was accused of. Having been found innocent of this guess what.... It means he could prove what he was saying in that specific courts eye's.

    I mean you do remember this correct?

    César Jacquet on darkandlight.com wrote a few months ago:

    Vincent Pourieux and VWorld pour out false and truncated information on the on-line game forums and the players community deserves that this shall be addressed.

    First of all, it must reminded that it is for Justice and Justice only to reach a verdict on the on-going Court cases. All speculation on the part of Pourieux/VWorld as of today is purely hypothetical.

    We commit ourselves to publishing the decisions when they will be rendered by the competent Courts and the players community will form its own opinion at this occasion.

    [...]

    César Jacquet,

    NP3,

    Farlan Entertainment

     

    He was being sued for slander. Read again what slander is then read this again then tell me the courts decision in favor of Pix over this issue has no bearring.

    He was found innocent of Slander which means what he was saying was True and he could prove it.

    You have to know this no one can be this..... I don't even have a word for it.



     

    LOL Awesome Grayghost!!!!  Right on!

    Then again, Zytx's constant twisting of the the ""truth"to fit his needs is very well known on this board.

    No amount of black and white facts, base intelligence, logic, common sense, nor even any court of law finding will sway his ridiculous posts.



     

    lol ok, I really don't have much interest in DnL I did at one point but when I came to check the game out I saw all this going on and I got mildly interested in the case and pop in once a blue moon to see if anything happend yet. When I read this post I could not help replying. I swear i have never seen this much blatent self imposed ingnorance in my life, it almost gave me an aneurysm.

    I'll be back around the 30th/31st to see what the verdict is and I wish you guys luck well Pix anyways. I hope that if DnL does go down you all find a game that you enjoy ^^.

  • ZorbaneZorbane Vancouver, BCMember Posts: 529 Uncommon

    mmorpg.com needs a facepalm emoticon.

     

    I guess this will do.

     

  • bratislabratisla BrestMember Posts: 17

    Ztyx,

     

    You're not French, so if you want to understand the court decision, you have to have learned French as foreign language ...

    Except you don't, since you say only utter BS about the court decision.

    I'm French, and I read the court decision. And I say, you didn't understand ANYTHING and you spew FALSE and SLANDEROUS nonsense. Once again.

    So, I will make it short :

    1) the court judged the accusation of NPCube (NOT Pourieux) about the failure of the joint venture in China by Pourieux, his parasitism in the partenship between the Reunion University and the failure in the development of Dark and Light

    2) the court judged that the three points were NON RELEVANT, and that NPCube shall pay 50000€ to Pourieux. So Pourieux is NOT RESPONSIBLE of :

    - DnL failure

    - the failed partnership in China

    3) ON TOP OF THAT, the court recognised that DnL used VWorld technology. 

    4) writing diffamatory allegations on a forum, either on someone or a justice decision, is delictual - and french courts do not like it AT ALL.

    Source : the court decision, freely available at the Tribunal de Commerce de Clermont Ferrand. You write a nice letter to the "greffe", asking to get the court decision for this case, and you join an envelope with a stamp so that they can send you back the paper. Oh, and you learn french. 

     

    Now, let's prove now that you are also a technical moron. Always a pleasure to bring back your nose in the mud you created.

    If I get it right, you are  saying that Pourieux took the promotional video made by NPCube for China, managed to create algorithms which are so clever they are able to EXPAND the video  in a logical fashion so that everyone believes it was his work ? Wow, Pourieux should publish/copyright these algorithms, because it's a really impressive work even for scientists ...

    Or maybe  ? Or maybe Pourieux created the video with VWorld, and then NPCube cropped it to get rid of the VWorld logo and claim it's their own ?

    <modedit>

  • ZorvanZorvan nowhere, CAMember Posts: 8,912 Common
    Originally posted by bratisla


    Ztyx,
     
    You're not French, so if you want to understand the court decision, you have to have learned French as foreign language ...
    Except you don't, since you say only utter BS about the court decision.
    I'm French, and I read the court decision. And I say, you didn't understand ANYTHING and you spew FALSE and SLANDEROUS nonsense. Once again.
    So, I will make it short :
    1) the court judged the accusation of NPCube (NOT Pourieux) about the failure of the joint venture in China by Pourieux, his parasitism in the partenship between the Reunion University and the failure in the development of Dark and Light
    2) the court judged that the three points were NON RELEVANT, and that NPCube shall pay 50000€ to Pourieux. So Pourieux is NOT RESPONSIBLE of :
    - DnL failure
    - the failed partnership in China
    3) ON TOP OF THAT, the court recognised that DnL used VWorld technology. 
    4) writing diffamatory allegations on a forum, either on someone or a justice decision, is delictual - and french courts do not like it AT ALL.
    Source : the court decision, freely available at the Tribunal de Commerce de Clermont Ferrand. You write a nice letter to the "greffe", asking to get the court decision for this case, and you join an envelope with a stamp so that they can send you back the paper. Oh, and you learn french. 
     
    Now, let's prove now that you are also a technical moron. Always a pleasure to bring back your nose in the mud you created.
    If I get it right, you are  saying that Pourieux took the promotional video made by NPCube for China, managed to create algorithms which are so clever they are able to EXPAND the video  in a logical fashion so that everyone believes it was his work ? Wow, Pourieux should publish/copyright these algorithms, because it's a really impressive work even for scientists ...
    Or maybe  ? Or maybe Pourieux created the video with VWorld, and then NPCube cropped it to get rid of the VWorld logo and claim it's their own ?
     
    <modedit>

    ^ ^

     

    I like this guy.

  • DuraheLLDuraheLL GMember Posts: 2,951

    Zorvan:

    I'm sorry... you said what now? I was too busy being hypnotized by your sig

    image
    $OE lies list
    http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
    "
    And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "

  • Death1942Death1942 CanberraMember Posts: 2,587 Uncommon

    lol same

     

    anyway.  i havent really followed this too closely but how did this end up in a French court?

    MMO wish list:

    -Changeable worlds
    -Solid non level based game
    -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads

  • RaltarRaltar ., HIMember Posts: 829
    Originally posted by Death1942


    lol same
     
    anyway.  i havent really followed this too closely but how did this end up in a French court?



     

    The game was developed in Europe and most of the people involved with VWorld are french. I guess its just where the lawsuit was filed.

    Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXMember Posts: 1,205 Uncommon

    Folks, folks, lawsuits, Pix, blah, blah, blah.... WHO CARES! Does it all really change the fact that the game was a massive POS that lost the great majority of it player population within 30 days of going live but continued to charge some of them after they had cancelled their account???

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • RaltarRaltar ., HIMember Posts: 829
    Originally posted by kakasaki


    Folks, folks, lawsuits, Pix, blah, blah, blah.... WHO CARES! Does it all really change the fact that the game was a massive POS that lost the great majority of it player population within 30 days of going live but continued to charge some of them after they had cancelled their account???



     

    Thats exactly what I keep asking Zytx. It seems he doesn't want to anwser me because he dissapears for several days every time I ask it.

    Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain

  • solareussolareus Nottingham, PAMember Posts: 3,165

    The op kind of hit on what I was saying in the other thread, without new development , or screenshots of Vworld, there really isn't anything connecting Pix to the technology after he left the Company he help create.

    "Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
    image

  • RaltarRaltar ., HIMember Posts: 829
    Originally posted by solareus


    The op kind of hit on what I was saying in the other thread, without new development , or screenshots of Vworld, there really isn't anything connecting Pix to the technology after he left the Company he help create.



     

    So I guess that means when a person turns 18 and moves out of their parents house, they cease to be affiliated with their parents because they no longer have daily contact with them? Or that because nobody has made a Dungeon Siege game in a few years nobody owns the rights to it?

    Pix created Vworld. It doesn't matter when he did it or how long ago. He did it. And he owns all legal rights to the technology. End of story. Nothing you say can change that.

    And if you are just going to keep repeating the same arguements over and over again then I'm just going to keep making the same counter arguements in reply:

    Even if Pix is satan himself, Vworld was just asking to be stolen and you have all the evidence to prove it, how does that erase all the other problems with the game? How does that erase the fact that nobody else at the company could program their way out of a cardboard box? How does that forgive the fact that they stole from their customers and charged money from people who had no desire to play? How does that change the way they lied to and mistreated every single paying customer in every way they could come up with?

    Even if Pix doesn't give a flying rat's hindquarters about MMORPGs and even if he destroyed the game by leaving the company, that doesn't change the fact that the company itself was corrupt and mistreated its customers. Even if the game had been great there would still be legions of people unwilling to play it because of the mistreatment they had to suffer at the hands of Farlan and NPCube. All the begging, pleading, harassing and trolling you do on these forums won't change that fact.

    Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain

  • solareussolareus Nottingham, PAMember Posts: 3,165

    Out of curiosity, how does anyone know Pix didn't take the money after he left ? How do you know he wasn't the soul demiser of the game ?  Think it is funny how Pix played the crowed, pushing hard to make himself the victim,. even though he "founded"  DnL , yet he is exempted from that some how, it is truly amazing to watch ix fool people, though maybe he isn't. It is very interesting none the less . How does Pix make a living if all he does is this court case ?

    "Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
    image

  • agh50agh50 Yuma, AZMember Posts: 124

    As near as I can tell VWorld is an LLC Design Studio which employs three principal people:

    Vincent Pourieux [CEO]

    Jean-Francois Lévigne [Data Base and Cartography Manager]

    Florence Lévêque [VP Marketing and Business Development]

    They offer a couple of products; (I think).

    The Enigma 1 and 1.5 entertainment CD ROMs

    The vieWTerra system (which may still be in development)

    They offer VWorld 3D terrain engine for licensing, though the only game or user they list on their site is (suprisingly), DnL.

    They also developed a video game, (Speed Demons), about 10 years ago, though I doubt it is still in production.

    I believe there was an update in October announcing that vieWTerra finished.

    There is no price listing for any of these items that I could find, but Mr. Pourieux reads these forums and posts here, so perhaps he could fill you in better than I.

    Their website is: 

    http://www.vworld.fr/Gb/GB.htm

    The website for vieWTerra is:

    http://www.monde3d.com/

    [Note that you must register there before you have access to the site]

    Whether or not VWorld Studios is a full time or a part time operation I have no idea.

     

     

  • solareussolareus Nottingham, PAMember Posts: 3,165

    what does this say ?

    Juillet 2004, démission d'une partie du staff de NP Cube (Jean-François Levigne, Vincent Pelisson et Vincent Pourieux, ayant fondé la société VWORLD, succédant à la société CPU Software)

    "Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
    image

  • RaltarRaltar ., HIMember Posts: 829
    Originally posted by solareus


    Out of curiosity, how does anyone know Pix didn't take the money after he left ?



     

    We don't know. But it doesn't matter because you still can't anwser this question:

    Even if Pix is satan himself, Vworld was just asking to be stolen and you have all the evidence to prove it, how does that erase all the other problems with the game? How does that erase the fact that nobody else at the company could program their way out of a cardboard box? How does that forgive the fact that they stole from their customers and charged money from people who had no desire to play? How does that change the way they lied to and mistreated every single paying customer in every way they could come up with?

    Seriously, either anwser that question or nothing you have to say about Pix matters. The guy could be Hitler for all I care, it still doesn't make DnL a good game.

    Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain

  • solareussolareus Nottingham, PAMember Posts: 3,165
    Originally posted by Raltar

    Originally posted by solareus


    Out of curiosity, how does anyone know Pix didn't take the money after he left ?



     

    We don't know. But it doesn't matter because you still can't anwser this question:

    Even if Pix is satan himself, Vworld was just asking to be stolen and you have all the evidence to prove it, how does that erase all the other problems with the game? How does that erase the fact that nobody else at the company could program their way out of a cardboard box? How does that forgive the fact that they stole from their customers and charged money from people who had no desire to play? How does that change the way they lied to and mistreated every single paying customer in every way they could come up with?

    Seriously, either anwser that question or nothing you have to say about Pix matters. The guy could be Hitler for all I care, it still doesn't make DnL a good game.

    Yes , that is what I'm saying, what if pix had no clue how to do game coding ?

    "Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
    image

  • RaltarRaltar ., HIMember Posts: 829
    Originally posted by solareus


    Yes , that is what I'm saying, what if pix had no clue how to do game coding ?



     

    Okay, WHAT IF he didn't...

    How does that erase the fact that nobody else at the company could program their way out of a cardboard box?

    How does that forgive the fact that they stole from their customers and charged money from people who had no desire to play?

    How does that change the way they lied to and mistreated every single paying customer in every way they could come up with?

    The point is, it doesn't matter if Pix isn't a good programmer. Even if he had been a great programmer and even if he never sued the creators of the game it still would have been a bad game! Pix doesn't matter because if he is or isn't a good programmer had no effect on the fact that DnL was a bad game.

    Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain

  • solareussolareus Nottingham, PAMember Posts: 3,165

    Lets pretend for one second, you knew the scope of the game, the coding of the game, and how ambious the world was.

    LEt see you have a community , flaming out of control, giving absolutely no feed back  of what is wrong with the game, what areas have severe issues. Have not even posted thier dxdiag on the forum support page. Then lets throw in a developer that didn't create a bug submit system , which in current games, is a must. Then add another batch of flamers on the fact that patches aren't coming out fast enough.

    1. The game world IS the biggest ever developed, I could run for over 4 hours and still see land on the horizon.

    2. The community just didn't seem to want to work with the developers at launch.

    3. Even when Pix was there, he was apart of the published product.

    4. People who can't read how to discontinued there subscriptions, got ganked.

    5. People on this forum support the creator, pusher , and demizer of DnL , like he wasn;'t even apart of the core personnel, who actual created NPcubed to begin with.  It was his own company that he quit from lol .

    6. To pin point a bug in a game world that massive , would take months, just 1 single bug. and that was way to much work for a certain person cause he didn't realize the ammount of work producing a game was, cause he just did world simulations with out 1000's of players running all around screaming , "this doesn't work"

     

    Botton line : Everyone who is praising Pix , is Praising Npcube, they are one in the same, Pix left the community down, ripped off your money and is now trying to reclaim what he already sold to Farlan.

    The haters of this community are so blind that they just want blood, yet they don't realize they are just letting out their own. 

    You guys keep fighting the good fight, though, what ever fight that is

    "Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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  • agh50agh50 Yuma, AZMember Posts: 124

    Honestly there is hyperbole on both sides of the fence. 

    The developers NEVER had any meaningful dialogue with their community, and still don't; despite the pitiful pleas of their faithful such as ZtyX, or Avefenix for some feedback.

    Players WERE billed long after they had cancelled their subscriptions.  Though most did not actually have any money subtracted from their accounts, still, the fact that it was attempted shows incompetence at best and, (as Cholayana would say), 'fleecing' at worst.

    The game WAS practiacally unplayable for the first couple of months after release.

    However, improvements and fixes WERE made over the next year.

    The transportation system, (broken when released), WAS fixed, and worked as intended within 3 months after release.

    MOB placement, (haphazzard upon release), was completely revamped about 7-8 months after release, and worked very well at the time the game shut down.  Indeed, I thought it was one of the best I have ever encountered in an MMO.

    MOB aggro ranges, (totally insane at release), were also fixed completely by the end.

    The quest system was also totally broke upon release, but was 'partially' fixed.  The quests in the starting areas work very well and are very good.  Once leaving the starting Baronies though, the system still remained borked.

    MOB AI was 'partially' fixed, though the MOB 'Flee when hp fall below a certain level', and MOB regeneration are still out of whack.

    MOB pathing remains a problem in the Dark realm when the spring thaw melts the ice and MOBs are wallowing around under water for a month or so.

    The crafting system was 'partially' fixed.  Components and recipes are readily available up to Master level, where components are still far too rare.  Experience progression is still too slow.

    There are still problems with holdings and sieges, though most are not actual programming faults but rather exploits on the part of players, and have been labeled as such by the GMs.

    In short, DnL when it released was not even at a beta level as a product.  By the time they shut down they had made a lot of progress, and had probably reached the level of most beta tests.  If they had had the resources they might have been able to produce a game people would actually pay to play in another 6-9 months.  But by that time it was far too late.  Their resources were gone, their reputation was in ruins, their potential player base had vanished, and technology had passed them by.

    Even at the end when they shut down, the game was playable and even fun, but it certainly wasn't ready for prime time even then.  I was (am) a huge fan of the game, but I would not have paid money to play it even at the end.

    Who is to blame?  Well, I think there are enough pieces of that pie so that everyone can have a slice.

    The lasting impact I think is that small game companies simply do not have the experience or the resources to bring their innovative ideas to fruition. 

    WoW is the 800lb gorilla of MMOs and to compete, a company has to try and peel away some of that base.  That is a difficult proposition. 

    There is a reason why WoW has such a huge market share.  You either have to pattern your game around the way Blizzard does things, or you have to appeal to a niche audience, or you have to try to bring in innovative ideas. 

    Large corporations with business savvy and resources are naturally conservative, and will be less willing to break away from a proven successful game design. 

    It then falls to the small entreprenearial companies to go down the 'innovative' path.  Their ideas are wonderful, but their reach simply  exceeds their grasp. 

    I have a sinking feeling that a world the size of Gannareth will not be seen in MMOs for a very long time, if ever.

  • _Pix__Pix_ NiceMember Posts: 276
    Originally posted by solareus


     
    Botton line : Everyone who is praising Pix , is Praising Npcube, they are one in the same, Pix left the community down, ripped off your money and is now trying to reclaim what he already sold to Farlan.
     



     

    Humm. Seems to me that this really is PURE SLANDER. Any clue as to the policy of these boards with reference to slander?

    I salute the multiple (and lengthy, sometimes even quite passionate) trolling efforts, but this is beyond my imagination.  

    @agh50: Welcome back to our good old history-teacher-faithful-follower.  Sorry to see you have to make your coming back in such a tedious trolling flaming slandering mumbo jumbo session against myself and VWORLD.

    Oh BTW, we're self-funded company, and the three people you took such great care mentioning by name are its three associates, not its " employees". Since you apparently have a little problem reading thoroughly and therefore reporting faithfully I would also add that thankfully we are a development studio and not a "design studio" (I really don't know which activity would be covered by this labelling). 

    Likewise, if you insist upon refering to our official company website, you may indicate www.viewterra.com which refers to our platform, or www.viewterra.net  for some more literature on our products (you know what products mean don't you, not only over-hyped MMORPGs which seem to be employing indeed a lot of people trying to commercialize them notably through viral marketing on forums).     

      

     

       

  • agh50agh50 Yuma, AZMember Posts: 124

    If I misinformed anyone then I apologize.  I am not sure that the difference between a 'Design' Studio and a 'Development' Studio isn't a distinction without a difference.

    I do believe that you are a wee bit too quick to take offense when none is intended, and to find some alterior motive to what was merely meant as an informational post.  Perhaps you are reading something in my post that I can't see.  Splitting hairs and arguing about semantics which really have no substanative difference in definition sounds as if you have been spending too much time speaking with lawyers.  Can we not have a discussion without walking on eggshells worrying about the difference in meaning between 'design' and 'development' or 'employee' and 'associate'?

    However, if you insist,  I will stand corrected, and will pose the question to you directly:

    Does VWorld currently have any users of their VWorld technology, and if so, whom might they be?

    As for products, you have a section there specifically labeled 'Products' which does not list anything other than Speed Demons, Enigma Act 1, Enigma Act 1.5, DnL , and vieWterra, which your web site lists as under development, but which your 'News' section lists as being a platform product as of October 15th, and I noted it as such.

    There was certainly no attempt to mislead anyone about your three listed 'associates',  The information is there on your own web site.  Nor did I say, or mean to imply, that they were the sole employees of VWorld, just the principal ones, as you yourself listed them.

    Whether there is any substanative difference between the word 'employee' and 'associate', I will leave to others to determine.

    I would assume that as CEO you recieve some form of compensation.  If you prefer the word 'associate' to 'employee' I will edit my post to reflect it.

    I have no particular axe to grind with you monsieur, and I hope that you have none with me.

    -edit for typos

  • RaltarRaltar ., HIMember Posts: 829

     

    Agh50, you sound like the most coherent DnL fanboy I've ever met. You atleast are willing to admit to the problems the game had and the fact that it was unplayable at launch (and that even in its "fixed" condition it was not a game worth paying for). But let me hit you with 2 things:

    1. Even if the game had the potental to be a good game, knwoing that it wasn't, how can you suggest we forgive the developers after all the "shady" business tactics they used? The fact that they advertized features that NEVER made it into the game. The fact that they charged money from people who had no desire to play. Or even the fact that the game is now offline for no apparent reason other than lack of resources on their part and people who still would like to play it are screwed?

    2. On the subject of WoW, atleast some of the blame has to go to casual gamers. People who have no taste in video games and simply aren't aware of how bad WoW sucks, so they keep playing it. Sadly casual gamers are the majority of the gaming community these days and this is why shallow gindfest MMOs like WoW are super popular. Its also why so many developers these days prefer to release dumbed down games for Xbox even if in the past they were the type of company that worked hard to develop deep and meaningful games for the PC. Its a problem that the entire industry suffers from, not just MMORPG developers. And what it boils down to is willful ignorance on the part of the consumer and self-serving greed on the part of the developers. This is why its so important to educate consumers on the ways that the industry is screwing us all over and why its equally important to see greedy money grabbers like the DnL developers be driven out of the industry.

    Originally posted by solareus


    1. The game world IS the biggest ever developed, I could run for over 4 hours and still see land on the horizon.
    2. The community just didn't seem to want to work with the developers at launch.
    3. Even when Pix was there, he was apart of the published product.
    4. People who can't read how to discontinued there subscriptions, got ganked.
    5. People on this forum support the creator, pusher , and demizer of DnL , like he wasn;'t even apart of the core personnel, who actual created NPcubed to begin with.  It was his own company that he quit from lol .
    6. To pin point a bug in a game world that massive , would take months, just 1 single bug. and that was way to much work for a certain person cause he didn't realize the ammount of work producing a game was, cause he just did world simulations with out 1000's of players running all around screaming , "this doesn't work" 
    Botton line : Everyone who is praising Pix , is Praising Npcube, they are one in the same, Pix left the community down, ripped off your money and is now trying to reclaim what he already sold to Farlan.



     

    You are just going in circles Solareus. See, let me show you how this is going:

    1. You (Solareus) show up and make some absurd comment that blames Pix for the failure of DnL.

    2. I (Raltar) proceed to explain why Pix isn't at fault for the failure of DnL because he left YEARS before the problems of the game started.

    3. As a follow up to proving Pix isn't at fault, I ask you to explain how Pix "being a bad programmer" or whatever other crazy claim you are making that day could explain why Farlan and Npcube stole from and insulted their customers.

    4. You, rather than anwser a question you know you don't have an anwser for, make a slightly different but more or less the same accusation as you did in the first place... which brings us full circle back to step one again. I prove you wrong, you dodge the issue, make the same accusation again and the whole dance starts all over again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

     

    The thing you keep trying to ignore is that you can't make Pix the bad guy without explaining how he is responsible for the theft of money from customers and the rudeness from the developers toward their paying customers. 

    You made a very small attempt to address a bit of that this time by attempting to blame the customers themselves, but that doesn't add up either. If someone is rude to you does that give you a vaild excuse to be rude back (espically when this person is paying you for your services)? Obviously it doesn't. It also doesn't give you the right to steal from them.

    Further, you even admit there was no bug report forum. Yes, I'm sure there were a lot of angry customers posting less than helpful messages on the forums after the release of SoG (and for quite some time beyond that) but if there was no bug report forum, there was really no place for them to make productive messages either, so what did you really expect. This was simply another area that the DnL developers dropped the ball and forced the customers to retaliate they only way they could. In fact, they prevented any positive discussion of the game because the forum moderators directly told us we were not allowed to talk about bugs on the forums because the sheer number of bug reports alone would have overwhelemed the forums for days on end. The forum moderators simply responded by trying to nuke the whole forums into oblivion. Every negative post was deleted, people were given warnings left and right, the banhammer had to be replaced several times because they kept wearing it out it was being used so much. The fact of the matter is that DnL was a shitty game, the people who paid for it were ANGRY and the forum moderators responded to that in totally the wrong way.

    No one man could ever be responsible for this. So even if Pix is the worst programmer of all time he never could have been responsible for ALL the problems the game had. It just isn't possible. It took many people at many different levels of responsibility in the developer (NP3), the publisher (Farlan), the public relations company (Alchemic Dream) and the billing company (Click & Buy) to set up a disaster of this size. Pix could not possibly be responsible for all the bad decisions that all of the many people at these various companies made in order to bring DnL to the point it is at now.

    Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain

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