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Question for you Ex-SWG players on TOR.

starstar Seattle, WAPosts: 1,101Member

Why does this game need to be SWGv2.0? WHY?

It seems that there's been a lot of sh** thrown around (both here and at the official forums) at Bioware about -not- making a SWG-esque sandbox.

I ask you this, why? Why do you hold this attitude of self-entitlement? Why do YOU deserve a game? Did SOE shaft you so badly that you can play no other game and you feel the need to bitch and moan until you get what you want? 

And, did you honestly expect the King of D20-esque Single Player RPGs to come out with a sandbox? Seriously, did you expect that?

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Comments

  • DrakxiiDrakxii Waxahachie, TXPosts: 594Member

    We just want it to be, because does the world really need another wow clone that does so little right? 

     

    Do you really want to pay for another game of solo quest grinding for like 60-100 hours and then your only options are to raid or make a new character?

    I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTPosts: 2,841Member Uncommon

    It's not a WoW clone.  It's a Bioware clone.  I'm willing to bet Bioware has a bigger fanbase then SWG.

  • DrakxiiDrakxii Waxahachie, TXPosts: 594Member

    So... 4-8 hours of questing and pointless ugly side quests?

    I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTPosts: 2,841Member Uncommon

    I guess it beats dancing in a cantina for 4 to 8 hours.

    Some will enjoy Bioware's stories and ideas.  Others will not enjoy them.  I am pretty confident that trying to change them will not happen though.  They have made many games before this MMO and aren't likely to change the way they make games for a few who complain.

  • RavanosRavanos Chicago, ILPosts: 897Member

    So what is this your "I Told you so" post, because some had hopes that this game would be thier savior? Because some people are tired of the same rehashed sh*t thats being put out there as MMOs like WAR and AOC.

    that people were hoping that a great game maker like Bioware would sell out and truely make an innovative game?  And thats the problem you "Its not SWG 2.0" idiots don't see ... is it didn't have to be SWG 2.0 it just had to be DIFFERENT than the bullsh*t WOW wannabes that are out there right now.

     

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTPosts: 2,841Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ravanos


    So what is this your "I Told you so" post, because some had hopes that this game would be thier savior? Because some people are tired of the same rehashed sh*t thats being put out there as MMOs like WAR and AOC.
    that people were hoping that a great game maker like Bioware would sell out and truely make an innovative game?  And thats the problem you "Its not SWG 2.0" idiots don't see ... is it didn't have to be SWG 2.0 it just had to be DIFFERENT than the bullsh*t WOW wannabes that are out there right now.
     



     

    How do you know it wont be different?  We know it wont be a sandbox, but it will deffinatly be more like KOTOR then it will be like World of Warcraft.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by star.buck


    Why does this game need to be SWGv2.0? WHY?
    I am a ex SWG player but don't want Bioware's Tor to be a SWGv2.0, I know and I bet allot of other Bioware game gamers know what Bioware is good at, have they ever created a sandbox single player game, well not as far I see a sandbox game they havn't, so it's kinda inlogical to even asume SWTOR would be anything like SWG
    It seems that there's been a lot of sh** thrown around (both here and at the official forums) at Bioware about -not- making a SWG-esque sandbox.
    Probably by people that are totally unaware of what Bioware is really good at, they are story tellers, there own words
    I ask you this, why? Why do you hold this attitude of self-entitlement?
    Okay with this you must mean that very small minority that often can be very loud about their dislike of SOE/SWG
    Why do YOU deserve a game? Did SOE shaft you so badly that you can play no other game and you feel the need to bitch and moan until you get what you want? 
    Well, doesn't this go for about any type of gamer regardless what type of game in what type of genre? doesn't every gamer feels he deserves to have that ONE game he/she will truly love playing? I really hope anyone into games will find THAT game to love playing, but also hope people can have realistic views on what to expect from what and who.
    And, did you honestly expect the King of D20-esque Single Player RPGs to come out with a sandbox? Seriously, did you expect that?
    Short anwers NOPE



     

  • Balkin31Balkin31 Citrus Heights, CAPosts: 224Member Uncommon

    I don't think we wanted SWG 2.0 but we did want something different.  Antoher MMO clone set in the Star Wars theme is just sad to us...

    I would ask you why be offended that we wanted more from this game??

     

    When they said this game was being developed by Bioware all of us were excited, because Bioware has a rep for being innovative, this game described by them is not innovative and will simply be more of the same old thing (with a great story)  in a Star Wars skin....

    Is that good enough??

    Not for me it isn't.....

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTPosts: 2,841Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Balkin31


    I don't think we wanted SWG 2.0 but we did want something different.  Antoher MMO clone set in the Star Wars theme is just sad to us...
    I would ask you why be offended that we wanted more from this game??
     
    When they said this game was being developed by Bioware all of us were excited, because Bioware has a rep for being innovative, this game described by them is not innovative and will simply be more of the same old thing (with a great story)  in a Star Wars skin....
    Is that good enough??
    Not for me it isn't.....



     

    I don't believe there has ever been an MMO with a great story.  Blizzard develops games that are about collecting loot and sometimes interacting with others while doing it.  That is their primary focus. 

    I've never seen Bioware as an innovative developer.  They have made many RPGs that I enjoy and I know what to expect from them generally.  Thats a good story and well developed NPC characters.  Lots of choices that lead down a path of good or evil with the possability to switch sides.

  • starstar Seattle, WAPosts: 1,101Member
    Originally posted by Reklaw

    Originally posted by star.buck


    Why does this game need to be SWGv2.0? WHY?
    I am a ex SWG player but don't want Bioware's Tor to be a SWGv2.0, I know and I bet allot of other Bioware game gamers know what Bioware is good at, have they ever created a sandbox single player game, well not as far I see a sandbox game they havn't, so it's kinda inlogical to even asume SWTOR would be anything like SWG
    It seems that there's been a lot of sh** thrown around (both here and at the official forums) at Bioware about -not- making a SWG-esque sandbox.
    Probably by people that are totally unaware of what Bioware is really good at, they are story tellers, there own words
    I ask you this, why? Why do you hold this attitude of self-entitlement?
    Okay with this you must mean that very small minority that often can be very loud about their dislike of SOE/SWG
    Why do YOU deserve a game? Did SOE shaft you so badly that you can play no other game and you feel the need to bitch and moan until you get what you want? 
    Well, doesn't this go for about any type of gamer regardless what type of game in what type of genre? doesn't every gamer feels he deserves to have that ONE game he/she will truly love playing? I really hope anyone into games will find THAT game to love playing, but also hope people can have realistic views on what to expect from what and who.
    And, did you honestly expect the King of D20-esque Single Player RPGs to come out with a sandbox? Seriously, did you expect that?
    Short anwers NOPE



     

    Bah, so the sh** storm just seems to be coming from the vocal minority, I guess I should've expected that....

    *is a sociology major, and should know that the loudest whiners are typically the smallest in numbers; it's been that way for a long while*

    @ Ravanos

    This is definitely not an 'I told you so' post. If it was, I would've said 'I told you so' somewhere in it. I simply do not understand why people still insist on this game being their 'savior'.

    Bioware is bringing a new element to the MMO-genre that (at least in the 7 years I've been playing MMOs) I haven't seen - story? I know a lot of people are already bitching about immersion, but isn't this immersion? That alone screams that it won't be 'the same rehashed sh*t'.

    And I completely disagree with your opinion and thinking that Bioware somehow is a sellout. It seems from what we know, that they're following at least some elements of the standard MMO formula, with a lovely dash of Bioware inginuity. Granted, in 5 months I could be eating these words, but for now, I think it's safe to assume that we won't be getting the same-old-same-old. And hey, if we do, as long as it's fun...

    /shrug

     

     

    image

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by star.buck

    Originally posted by Reklaw

    Originally posted by star.buck


    Why does this game need to be SWGv2.0? WHY?
    I am a ex SWG player but don't want Bioware's Tor to be a SWGv2.0, I know and I bet allot of other Bioware game gamers know what Bioware is good at, have they ever created a sandbox single player game, well not as far I see a sandbox game they havn't, so it's kinda inlogical to even asume SWTOR would be anything like SWG
    It seems that there's been a lot of sh** thrown around (both here and at the official forums) at Bioware about -not- making a SWG-esque sandbox.
    Probably by people that are totally unaware of what Bioware is really good at, they are story tellers, there own words
    I ask you this, why? Why do you hold this attitude of self-entitlement?
    Okay with this you must mean that very small minority that often can be very loud about their dislike of SOE/SWG
    Why do YOU deserve a game? Did SOE shaft you so badly that you can play no other game and you feel the need to bitch and moan until you get what you want? 
    Well, doesn't this go for about any type of gamer regardless what type of game in what type of genre? doesn't every gamer feels he deserves to have that ONE game he/she will truly love playing? I really hope anyone into games will find THAT game to love playing, but also hope people can have realistic views on what to expect from what and who.
    And, did you honestly expect the King of D20-esque Single Player RPGs to come out with a sandbox? Seriously, did you expect that?
    Short anwers NOPE



     

    Bah, so the sh** storm just seems to be coming from the vocal minority, I guess I should've expected that....

    *is a sociology major, and should know that the loudest whiners are typically the smallest in numbers; it's been that way for a long while*

    @ Ravanos

    This is definitely not an 'I told you so' post. If it was, I would've said 'I told you so' somewhere in it. I simply do not understand why people still insist on this game being their 'savior'.

    Bioware is bringing a new element to the MMO-genre that (at least in the 7 years I've been playing MMOs) I haven't seen - story? I know a lot of people are already bitching about immersion, but isn't this immersion? That alone screams that it won't be 'the same rehashed sh*t'.

    And I completely disagree with your opinion and thinking that Bioware somehow is a sellout. It seems from what we know, that they're following at least some elements of the standard MMO formula, with a lovely dash of Bioware inginuity. Granted, in 5 months I could be eating these words, but for now, I think it's safe to assume that we won't be getting the same-old-same-old. And hey, if we do, as long as it's fun...

    /shrug

     

     



     

    Meh those on Forums are a very small percentage of any games player base. I will point out that it was a universal dissapointment when SWG went from Sandbox to NGE. As for the Story aspect yes that will be unique if Citedal of Sorcery is for some reason scrapped which has been in development for awhile. 

    In any case it's far to early to tell or make any assumptions as for what it will bring. Being a themepark  I could say it's safe to say it will be bringing more of the same but it's to early for me to say that as it is to early for you to say the opposite.

    In any case I am just a bit dissapointed that LA went this route after how they tried to blame SOE for NGE and now they are going even farther. So I can say with confidence that LA is to blame for NGE. Unless many including myself have misjuged what SW:TOR will be like. So only time will tell and I will visit this forum and there website in around 6 months for an update.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Flyte27


     
    I don't believe there has ever been an MMO with a great story.  Blizzard develops games that are about collecting loot and sometimes interacting with others while doing it.  That is their primary focus. 
    I've never seen Bioware as an innovative developer.  They have made many RPGs that I enjoy and I know what to expect from them generally.  Thats a good story and well developed NPC characters.  Lots of choices that lead down a path of good or evil with the possability to switch sides.

     

    Exactly. WOW essentially is a diablo MMO focusing on cool combat, loot  and power gaming (although the art style is different).

    TOR will be story focused. There is NO story focused MMO on teh market right now. I am glad to see that they are doing something new.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTPosts: 2,841Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Flyte27


     
    I don't believe there has ever been an MMO with a great story.  Blizzard develops games that are about collecting loot and sometimes interacting with others while doing it.  That is their primary focus. 
    I've never seen Bioware as an innovative developer.  They have made many RPGs that I enjoy and I know what to expect from them generally.  Thats a good story and well developed NPC characters.  Lots of choices that lead down a path of good or evil with the possability to switch sides.

     

    Exactly. WOW essentially is a diablo MMO focusing on cool combat, loot  and power gaming (although the art style is different).

    TOR will be story focused. There is NO story focused MMO on teh market right now. I am glad to see that they are doing something new.

    I agree and I'm taking that form the 1up article where they said WoW is mostly about getting a lot of loot and repeating the same instances/monsters over and over again for loot.  It typical Bioware fashion they would like to make the game focused more on story then loot and to remove doing the same instance or killing the same mob over and over again.

     

  • KorususKorusus Auburn, ALPosts: 831Member
    Originally posted by Balkin31


    I don't think we wanted SWG 2.0 but we did want something different.  Antoher MMO clone set in the Star Wars theme is just sad to us...
    I would ask you why be offended that we wanted more from this game??
     
    When they said this game was being developed by Bioware all of us were excited, because Bioware has a rep for being innovative, this game described by them is not innovative and will simply be more of the same old thing (with a great story)  in a Star Wars skin....
    Is that good enough??
    Not for me it isn't.....

    I greatly admire BioWare as a company, but I would never call them innovative.  Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, Mass Effect... it's the same game over and over.  BioWare is an epic game developer because, like Blizzard, they pay extra special attention to the QUALITY of their work.  You'll never see BioWare pull an NGE.  It just won't happen, BioWare has a reputation to uphold.

    If you go and play Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, or Mass Effect (and soon Dragon Age), I think you'll get more of an idea of what to expect from The Old Republic.  Granted, this will be slightly different by virtue of being an MMO, but the overall philosophy is the same.

    I wouldn't want BioWare to do a sandbox style game because that's not what they're good at.  Maybe you'll get your sandbox from Bethesda Game Studios, they're masters of the sandbox.  But not BioWare.  And if you've followed this game at all in the last few years you'd already know that one of the first things out of BioWare's mouth was that it would not be sandbox.

    ----------
    Life sucks, buy a helmet.

  • AlindaleAlindale bono, ARPosts: 134Member
    Originally posted by Reklaw

    Originally posted by star.buck


    Why does this game need to be SWGv2.0? WHY?
    I am a ex SWG player but don't want Bioware's Tor to be a SWGv2.0, I know and I bet allot of other Bioware game gamers know what Bioware is good at, have they ever created a sandbox single player game, well not as far I see a sandbox game they havn't, so it's kinda inlogical to even asume SWTOR would be anything like SWG
    It seems that there's been a lot of sh** thrown around (both here and at the official forums) at Bioware about -not- making a SWG-esque sandbox.
    Probably by people that are totally unaware of what Bioware is really good at, they are story tellers, there own words
    I ask you this, why? Why do you hold this attitude of self-entitlement?
    Okay with this you must mean that very small minority that often can be very loud about their dislike of SOE/SWG
    Why do YOU deserve a game? Did SOE shaft you so badly that you can play no other game and you feel the need to bitch and moan until you get what you want? 
    Well, doesn't this go for about any type of gamer regardless what type of game in what type of genre? doesn't every gamer feels he deserves to have that ONE game he/she will truly love playing? I really hope anyone into games will find THAT game to love playing, but also hope people can have realistic views on what to expect from what and who.
    And, did you honestly expect the King of D20-esque Single Player RPGs to come out with a sandbox? Seriously, did you expect that?
    Short anwers NOPE



     

    Reklaw answered well enough, I'll second him/her on this one.  I'm a Pre-CU Vet who also played NWN and NWN2, as well as the KotORs and I cannot see The Old Republic being anything like SWG nor would I want it to be.  Yes, I would like nothing more than to have Pre-NGE SWG back, but I also want to see what Bioware can do with the IP.

     

  • FreddyNoNoseFreddyNoNose LosAngeles, CAPosts: 1,558Member
    Originally posted by Balkin31


    I don't think we wanted SWG 2.0 but we did want something different.  Antoher MMO clone set in the Star Wars theme is just sad to us...
    I would ask you why be offended that we wanted more from this game??
     
    When they said this game was being developed by Bioware all of us were excited, because Bioware has a rep for being innovative, this game described by them is not innovative and will simply be more of the same old thing (with a great story)  in a Star Wars skin....
    Is that good enough??
    Not for me it isn't.....



     

    so your way is better and you are lauding it over everyone? Right?

  • achellisachellis Saranac, NYPosts: 542Member

    SWG is by far the best MMO to ever come out.

    image

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member
    Originally posted by Drakxii


    We just want it to be, because does the world really need another wow clone that does so little right? 
     
    Do you really want to pay for another game of solo quest grinding for like 60-100 hours and then your only options are to raid or make a new character?



     

    What this guy said.

     

    And why are people getting so excited like no mmo has ever had story in it.  I guess people don't read the quests in mmo's, but there is plenty of story out there. 

     

    SWG even had decision trees in some of their quests so Bioware doing it isn't 'revolutionary' at all.  Ofcourse, Bioware may do it better...but that would be evolutionary not revolutionary.

  • MarlonBMarlonB HoensbroekPosts: 520Member Uncommon

    The same blabla as Age of Conan .... You're a hero ... story driven .... bla bla bla ...

    Half the AoC players i spoke told me that questing for them in AoC is pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 The only reason they love the main story line quests is for the stat-rewards.

    Half the kotor /ME players i spoke told me the same ... they read the first few quests ... then just start randomly clickingas it gets to dreadfull to read.

    I think only few people have the interest or attention span to read the quest text, all the rest doesn't care and only wants to kill, loot and socialise. Preferably in the way they choose.  A "day-in-the-life-of" so to speak.

     

    This game whill hold it subscribers for maximum a few months, story telling gets old fast. While an open world might maybe attract less people, those will stay for years, and they will tell and create their own stories.

     

    The Repopulation - Scfi Fi Sandbox.

  • SioBabbleSioBabble Eugene, ORPosts: 2,803Member

    I certainly don't expect TOR to be a sandbox game, not with Bioware at the helm.

    I am intensely curious how they'll parlay their success at single player RPGs with storylines into a new (to them) gaming medium where the game has to be open ended.  How are they going to accomplish this?  The MMO is by its nature not something that you can bring to a conclusion from the developer side, because the whole idea is to keep people paying 10 or 15 or 20 bucks a month to play the game.

    The thing about the sandbox idea is that it does play into that imperative.  Keep people engaged.  The folks at Rockstar have a better handle on this with their storyline but lots of room to play without following the storyline approach.

    Can BioWare pull this off in an MMO?  We shall see....

    CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

    Once a denizen of Ahazi

  • RenessaRenessa SaarbrückenPosts: 79Member
    Originally posted by MarlonB


    The same blabla as Age of Conan .... You're a hero ... story driven .... bla bla bla ...
    Half the AoC players i spoke told me that questing for them in AoC is pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 The only reason they love the main story line quests is for the stat-rewards.
    Half the kotor /ME players i spoke told me the same ... they read the first few quests ... then just start randomly clickingas it gets to dreadfull to read.
    I think only few people have the interest or attention span to read the quest text, all the rest doesn't care and only wants to kill, loot and socialise. Preferably in the way they choose.  A "day-in-the-life-of" so to speak.
     
    This game whill hold it subscribers for maximum a few months, story telling gets old fast. While an open world might maybe attract less people, those will stay for years, and they will tell and create their own stories.
     

    This really surprises me. Not, that most AoC players don't read the quest texts and miss out on a great part of the game, because the story telling is actually quite good. Most of them are just PvP players, who want to get to endgame as fast as possible.  

     

    But you claim, that people playing Bioware games are the same. Why then do they play ME or Jade Empire etc? The best part of these games is the story, is the interaction with the other characters. This is what Bioware is about. If you just want to kill and loot things why not play a good FPS? When I talk to fellow players they all rave about the story lines. This is their main reason for playing these games. So, I am not sure, I agree with you about the typical Bioware customer.

    I am a Bioware fan and I'm looking forward to a Bioware mmo, that draws on their own strengths. I am very curious on how they want to incorporate this in an mmo, but perhaps this will be the innovative part of the new game...

     

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon

    "Why does this game need to be SWGv2.0? WHY?

    It seems that there's been a lot of sh** thrown around (both here and at the official forums) at Bioware about -not- making a SWG-esque sandbox.

    I ask you this, why? Why do you hold this attitude of self-entitlement? Why do YOU deserve a game? Did SOE shaft you so badly that you can play no other game and you feel the need to bitch and moan until you get what you want?

    And, did you honestly expect the King of D20-esque Single Player RPGs to come out with a sandbox? Seriously, did you expect that?"

     

    Got their new Star Wars game and are still complaining...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • MarlonBMarlonB HoensbroekPosts: 520Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Renessa

    Originally posted by MarlonB


    The same blabla as Age of Conan .... You're a hero ... story driven .... bla bla bla ...
    Half the AoC players i spoke told me that questing for them in AoC is pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 The only reason they love the main story line quests is for the stat-rewards.
    Half the kotor /ME players i spoke told me the same ... they read the first few quests ... then just start randomly clickingas it gets to dreadfull to read.
    I think only few people have the interest or attention span to read the quest text, all the rest doesn't care and only wants to kill, loot and socialise. Preferably in the way they choose.  A "day-in-the-life-of" so to speak.
     
    This game whill hold it subscribers for maximum a few months, story telling gets old fast. While an open world might maybe attract less people, those will stay for years, and they will tell and create their own stories.
     

    This really surprises me. Not, that most AoC players don't read the quest texts and miss out on a great part of the game, because the story telling is actually quite good. Most of them are just PvP players, who want to get to endgame as fast as possible.  

     

    But you claim, that people playing Bioware games are the same. Why then do they play ME or Jade Empire etc? The best part of these games is the story, is the interaction with the other characters. This is what Bioware is about. If you just want to kill and loot things why not play a good FPS? When I talk to fellow players they all rave about the story lines. That is their main reason for playing these games. So, I am not sure, I agree with you about the typical Bioware customer.

    I am a Bioware fan and I'm looking forward to a Bioware mmo, that draws on their own strengths. I am very curious on how they want to incorporate this in an mmo, but perhaps this will be the innovative part of the new game...

     

     

    Indeed .. Bioware is not the same .... people that play it are though

    I am Bioware fan too ... but for their singleplayer games .... i would hate it if they would put that concept into an MMO, as i'm looking for very different aspects in an MMORPG then i am for example in Kotor.

     

    So ... indeed ... let's wait and see.

    The Repopulation - Scfi Fi Sandbox.

  • greighsongreighson Indianapolis, INPosts: 5Member

    From what I'm hearing, there's likely to be some kind of instanced sandbox aspect.  The most anticipated is guild space stations... oh yeah.

  • MarlonBMarlonB HoensbroekPosts: 520Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by greighson


    From what I'm hearing, there's likely to be some kind of instanced sandbox aspect.  The most anticipated is guild space stations... oh yeah.

     

    They should reverse that  .... have a sandbox with instances and themeparks

    The Repopulation - Scfi Fi Sandbox.

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