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Revolutionary story driven MMO

NeonShadowNeonShadow HelsinkiMember Posts: 314 Uncommon

Man, I just hope that that isn't code for instancing up the wazoo. What do you guys think? Any input and opinions on instancing, how it should be done and how limited (if limited at all) should it be?

I personally hate it with a passion. It's simply the worst thing ever introduced to the genre. These games are about huge worlds with vast numbers of players to interact with, not get stuck with a small number of people in a small limited box that's completely disconnected from the rest of the world.

Comments

  • DarwaDarwa CambridgeMember Posts: 2,176 Uncommon

    Whilst I'm personally a fan of instances (when applied well), I do share your concerns.

    I have no grounds to base this on, but I'm thinking this means that swtor will be pretty much a linear and single player/small group experience until endgame, where raiding will happen.

    I really, really hope I'm wrong though.

  • BurnthebedBurnthebed Fort Lauderdale, FLMember Posts: 443

    I personally enjoy instancing if it's done the right way. Look at the way WoW did it; The whole world was pretty much seamless until you wanted to do a dungeon. That's perfect, I mean I HATED spawn camping in EQ with lines of groups waiting for a certain mob....annoying.

    I also love the way DDO does things, though I'd like it better if there was a world and the quests were just instanced. That way you can pack story, and events into an instance for a group while still being an MMO.

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  • ronan32ronan32 limerickMember Posts: 1,418

    well if bioware do this mmo right, then it definitely is a wow killer.

  • Random_mageRandom_mage Puyallup, WAMember Posts: 1,093 Uncommon

    First off.. It won't be a WoW killer.

    Second.. I really hope they don't instance like AoC.  .. but from reading the description.. it sort of looks like that's the only way to have your own story.  

     

    Why they need to do is take a look at Sandbox games, with a story driven purpose.  Make it so that you don't have to participate in yhour story , if you'd rather be a loner Star Wars guy..

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  • xRand0mxxRand0mx Simsbury, CTMember Posts: 71
    Originally posted by ronan32


    well if bioware do this mmo right, then it definitely is a wow killer.

     

    Oh god. How many times have we heard this? Are you really serious? 

    I'll be shocked if this game gets more than 1 million subscribers (based on intial readings). Believe it or not bioware + starwars |= revolutionary gameplay changing wow killer.

    -------------------
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  • SoupgoblinSoupgoblin Dallas, TXMember Posts: 324
    Originally posted by ronan32


    well if bioware do this mmo right, then it definitely is a wow killer.



     

    Sorry Dude.

     

    Wow is designed for the lowest common denominator. (i.e. kids and adults that think like kids).

    The game has to be very simplistic to appeal to those people, and I hope and pray that SW:TOR is not that kind of game. I personally don't want the kiddies and simple adults in any game I play.

    MMOs were so much better back when they appealed to nerds and computer geeks only, since Wow came out, we have to deal with all the ignorant mangy jackholes and gold farmers on the planet.

     

  • IrishIrish Rochester, NYMember Posts: 261

    I think the only things that will eventually kill WoW is itself...or nuclear war. This game will likely appeal to a slightly different demographic.

    I personally have never been a fan of instancing at all, but it can be useful to help shape a good game. I believe if anyone is capable of delivering a kickass title that truly is revolutionary, it's Bioware. They really do have a pretty flawless track-record.

    Bioware is fantastic with conjuring up great stories. I won't blindly endorse this game, though, because what they are proposing is something that has never been done, and will not be easy to pull off.

    Story in an MMO would be great, but I am more concerned with combat. Anytime you add lightsabers into the mix, you better do them justice.

    I hope the story incorporates the fact that the game is massively multiplayer, and not everyone wants the same cookie-cutter story for their class/faction. They really have taken on a huge feat and I have confidence (okay, hope) that it won't be some over-instanced crap-pile. 

     

    Good luck Bioware!

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane milwaukee, WIMember Posts: 2,776
    Originally posted by NeonShadow


    Man, I just hope that that isn't code for instancing up the wazoo. What do you guys think? Any input and opinions on instancing, how it should be done and how limited (if limited at all) should it be?
    I personally hate it with a passion. It's simply the worst thing ever introduced to the genre. These games are about huge worlds with vast numbers of players to interact with, not get stuck with a small number of people in a small limited box that's completely disconnected from the rest of the world.



     

    The subject of instancing has always been a tricky subject for me because I have seen instances well done and of course also seen it used poorly. I think the story elements will probably do well with instancing but I agree that large zones are a must, I think the biggest problem is some companies like funcom sacrificed immersion by instancing pretty small zones which is a horrible idea for a game you expect people to pay a monthly fee for. Though I hate to raise this example I think the way wow did instances was awesome there are alot of them around yet they don't detract at all from the size of the world,this would be a good way to go with obviously alot more instances around since they are trying to highlight story.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAMember Posts: 5,361 Rare

    Its only the simple minded that are concerned about what mmo is a WoW killer especialy when they just base it on how many subs it has.  Just ask your self, is the quality and fun factor of an mmo based on subs or gameplay?  But we cant decide if the gameplay yet till swtor comes out and everyone gets to play it.

    So when this game comes out and I have more fun in it than WoW, to me it is the WoW killer.  And I am pretty confident that i will like it more than WoW because I dont even like WoW now.

     

  • IrishIrish Rochester, NYMember Posts: 261
    Originally posted by tkreep


    Its only the simple minded that are concerned about what mmo is a WoW killer especialy when they just base it on how many subs it has.  Just ask your self, is the quality and fun factor of an mmo based on subs or gameplay?  But we cant decide if the gameplay yet till swtor comes out and everyone gets to play it.
    So when this game comes out and I have more fun in it than WoW, to me it is the WoW killer.  And I am pretty confident that i will like it more than WoW because I dont even like WoW now.
     

    Well said.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTMember Posts: 3,783 Uncommon

    I'm not a huge fan of instances, but I think this game will need to be instanced for them to pull off a good story like the original KOTOR game.  I thought Age of Coanan was great for the first 20 levels, but most of that content was instanced in order to make interesting story and quests.  Once it opened up into the normal world you ended up with a lot of the standard quests of go kill 20 and go gather 10. 

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCMember Posts: 2,081

    Too bad the Anime graphical-art style they are going with will kill the game before it even launches.

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  • YunbeiYunbei HamburgMember Posts: 898

    Personally I vividly hate instances. They suck out the social life of a game, and takes away the entire idea of a massive multi game. What does it do good if everyone is away where I dont see him?

    Nevertheless, the one BIG question mark, and so far the only serious concern I have is this: how can a MMO be so much story driven and still succeed in making people cooperate. So far I hear a lot how you as a single player are hero of a story, fine. But I hear not two class stories cross, so how are people ever supposed to work together on a shared goal, as in the usual quests, when everything you decide and experience is so exclusive? Doesnt the need to cooperate the inclusion of trivial standard quests a necessity? Somehow it starts to sound like a single player game with an online longe to meet and talk, and that would really spooky.



    This part of "having no day to day stuff" or what seriously concerns me tbh. How can any player take part in a MMO, which is supposed to have players busy at least for many months, if not years, and still be always heroic and story driven? Even with dozens of writers, the usual amount of daily hours of an average MMO geek will EASILY surpass ANY heroic content they can create, let alone unique for every class!

    I kinda hope this is more RP blah blah, and in the end we will have the level of story-driven we have seen in AoC's Tortage area, the first 20 levels, where you have some personal parts but by and large a normal MMO. I really would be let down if I subscribe to an MMO and everyone is vanished in instances of single player heroic stories. We'll have to see.

     

    image

  • IrishIrish Rochester, NYMember Posts: 261

    Who knows? Maybe the pre-alpha look will change/improve. Not that I have a problem with it. Most of the leading MMO's out there have fairly ho-hum graphics or look kind of goofy.

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamMember Posts: 1,691 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Soupgoblin

    Originally posted by ronan32


    well if bioware do this mmo right, then it definitely is a wow killer.



     

    Sorry Dude.

     

    Wow is designed for the lowest common denominator. (i.e. kids and adults that think like kids).

    The game has to be very simplistic to appeal to those people, and I hope and pray that SW:TOR is not that kind of game. I personally don't want the kiddies and simple adults in any game I play.

    MMOs were so much better back when they appealed to nerds and computer geeks only, since Wow came out, we have to deal with all the ignorant mangy jackholes and gold farmers on the planet.

     

     

    I'm with u soup and am hoping this isn't just some kiddie wow clone

  • SteelroseSteelrose NetanyaMember Posts: 215
    Originally posted by Karahandras

    Originally posted by Soupgoblin

    Originally posted by ronan32


    well if bioware do this mmo right, then it definitely is a wow killer.



     

    Sorry Dude.

     

    Wow is designed for the lowest common denominator. (i.e. kids and adults that think like kids).

    The game has to be very simplistic to appeal to those people, and I hope and pray that SW:TOR is not that kind of game. I personally don't want the kiddies and simple adults in any game I play.

    MMOs were so much better back when they appealed to nerds and computer geeks only, since Wow came out, we have to deal with all the ignorant mangy jackholes and gold farmers on the planet.

     

     

    I'm with u soup and am hoping this isn't just some kiddie wow clone

    I feel this is gonna be a lotro-clone in a way ehm.

     

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamMember Posts: 1,691 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Steelrose

    Originally posted by Karahandras

    Originally posted by Soupgoblin

    Originally posted by ronan32


    well if bioware do this mmo right, then it definitely is a wow killer.



     

    Sorry Dude.

     

    Wow is designed for the lowest common denominator. (i.e. kids and adults that think like kids).

    The game has to be very simplistic to appeal to those people, and I hope and pray that SW:TOR is not that kind of game. I personally don't want the kiddies and simple adults in any game I play.

    MMOs were so much better back when they appealed to nerds and computer geeks only, since Wow came out, we have to deal with all the ignorant mangy jackholes and gold farmers on the planet.

     

     

    I'm with u soup and am hoping this isn't just some kiddie wow clone

    I feel this is gonna be a lotro-clone in a way ehm.

     

     

    lotro isn't a huge distance from WOW in middle earth though

  • TzimiscechiTzimiscechi Las Vegas, NVMember Posts: 230

     

    Storydriven? Hm...

    It'll be notable one way or the other: either really good or really bad.

     

  • jadan2000jadan2000 roosevelt, NYMember Posts: 508 Uncommon
    Originally posted by NeonShadow


    Man, I just hope that that isn't code for instancing up the wazoo. What do you guys think? Any input and opinions on instancing, how it should be done and how limited (if limited at all) should it be?
    I personally hate it with a passion. It's simply the worst thing ever introduced to the genre. These games are about huge worlds with vast numbers of players to interact with, not get stuck with a small number of people in a small limited box that's completely disconnected from the rest of the world.



     

    well im not sure how it will be. The only thing that BIOWARE has said is about teh storytelling. They havent given us any social mmo aspects of teh game yet.

    image

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,682 Rare
    Originally posted by NeonShadow


    Man, I just hope that that isn't code for instancing up the wazoo. What do you guys think? Any input and opinions on instancing, how it should be done and how limited (if limited at all) should it be?
    I personally hate it with a passion. It's simply the worst thing ever introduced to the genre. These games are about huge worlds with vast numbers of players to interact with, not get stuck with a small number of people in a small limited box that's completely disconnected from the rest of the world.

     

    Y ? I am hoping it *is* going to be a lot of instances.

    It will be a new kind of game. A story driven RPG with some MMO elements. I am a lot of trust in Bioware (based on their track record) of making good games. If it has some MMO elements, so much the better. There is really no reason why they should be constrained by current or past MMO design.

    The question is whether they can make a good game, not whether they conform to any MMO design. If they break some rules on their way, so much the better. It is called innovation.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTMember Posts: 3,783 Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by NeonShadow


    Man, I just hope that that isn't code for instancing up the wazoo. What do you guys think? Any input and opinions on instancing, how it should be done and how limited (if limited at all) should it be?
    I personally hate it with a passion. It's simply the worst thing ever introduced to the genre. These games are about huge worlds with vast numbers of players to interact with, not get stuck with a small number of people in a small limited box that's completely disconnected from the rest of the world.

     

    Y ? I am hoping it *is* going to be a lot of instances.

    It will be a new kind of game. A story driven RPG with some MMO elements. I am a lot of trust in Bioware (based on their track record) of making good games. If it has some MMO elements, so much the better. There is really no reason why they should be constrained by current or past MMO design.

    The question is whether they can make a good game, not whether they conform to any MMO design. If they break some rules on their way, so much the better. It is called innovation.

    Yeah I don't know how they could pull it off without using a lot of instances.  I know this will be a big detractor for a lot of people, but if they can make the whole game like Age of Conan's first 20 levels or better then I will enjoy the game a lot.  This is why I believe they should concentrate on the PvE and Story fully and worry about the PvP later.  It's going to require a lot of work to build a good story that is many times the size of the original KOTOR as they aim to do.

     

  • RayalistRayalist Plano, TXMember Posts: 211

    My guess:

    Guild Wars - Graphics + Monthly Fee = SW: TOR

    I'd throw in some WoW in there too, although I don't know what specifically, since Bioware caters heavily to the mainstream. Well, I guess they've already given it cartoony graphics but I don't expect them to stop there.

    As a Bioware hater, I'm greedily hoping it fails and drags Bioware down with it.

    As a realist, I'm aware they'll sell millions of copies and get 100/100 reviews through hype alone and it will be a success.

    That's just the way the gaming industry works.

  • KorususKorusus Auburn, ALMember Posts: 831
    Originally posted by Rayalist


    My guess:
    Guild Wars - Graphics + Monthly Fee = SW: TOR
    I'd throw in some WoW in there too, although I don't know what specifically, since Bioware caters heavily to the mainstream. Well, I guess they've already given it cartoony graphics but I don't expect them to stop there.
    As a Bioware hater, I'm greedily hoping it fails and drags Bioware down with it.
    As a realist, I'm aware they'll sell millions of copies and get 100/100 reviews through hype alone and it will be a success.
    That's just the way the gaming industry works.

    Remember how not long ago EA payed close to a billion dollars to get their hands on this MMO by purchasing BioWare/Pandemic?  Yeah...this game isn't going to fail and neither is BioWare.

    Needless to say I totally disagree with you.  BioWare is a great company that caters to its well-established fanbase.  It's one of the last true Western cRPG developers in the business.  When I play a BioWare game I'm reminded of the golden age of Black Isle and Troika.  Take BioWare away from me at your own mortal danger

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  • SlytheSlythe Corona, CAMember Posts: 952
    Originally posted by Korusus 
    Remember how not long ago EA payed close to a billion dollars to get their hands on this MMO by purchasing BioWare/Pandemic?  Yeah...this game isn't going to fail and neither is BioWare.
    Needless to say I totally disagree with you.  BioWare is a great company that caters to its well-established fanbase.  It's one of the last true Western cRPG developers in the business.  When I play a BioWare game I'm reminded of the golden age of Black Isle and Troika.  Take BioWare away from me at your own mortal danger

    Seriously, how could anyone hate Bioware? Baldur's gate series, Neverwinter Nights series, KOTOR, Mass Effect.

    Instancing is nice for high level dungeons and complicated boss mobs but it's not so good for towns, outdoor areas, etc. I actually hate instances in open world places, I would rather lag my ass off by having a lot of people around me instead of being split into different zones or instances.

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