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Not funny anymore: Order regularly gets ROLLED... PERIOD

WarmakerWarmaker San Diego, CAPosts: 2,231Member

Okay... I call my home at Iron-something server.  I have several toons there, all Order of course.

Simply put, Order gets rolled, no if's, and's, or but's about it. 

In RvR scenarios, we regularly lose out along the lines of 50-500, on a good showing by us, maybe 100-500.  If we're up REALLY early in the morning to catch the worm, we can roll them with moderate chances of success.

In the regular regions, ever since I started playing WAR on that server, I recall seeing a region just ONCE under Order control, and that was 3 days ago at Chrace.  Everywhere else is regularly under Destruction control.

So the regional bonuses practically never, ever, EVER go to Order.

No Experience and Reknown bonuses since we have no control of the regions

No Merchant Buy / Sell bonuses since we never have control of anything.

We regularly get slaughtered, that it's increasingly pointless.  The only point really is to GIVE Destruction points, especially in scenarios where the winner naturally gets a fat set of points.

A challenge is a nice thing, but not when the odds are so stacked against you.

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

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Comments

  • MajinashMajinash st louis, MOPosts: 1,320Member

    on my server order seems to win most scenarios.  just starting tier 3 so I don't know about them.  Destruction just seems to have a very large presence in tier 2 right now because of where the masses are at leveling, so they own most if not all the keeps.  we can still take keeps when we want them, and when I went into tier 3 I noticed we owned 1 keep in each pairing.

     

    I think you're blowing the problem out of proportion.  yes in open RvR destruction has a bit of an advantage, but in scenarios its all based on the people you get.  I've been rolled because my team stood around our flag, and let them grab it over and over and over (yes, 4 people just STOOD around it) and i've had matches where we never let them touch the flag, and dominate the match like 400 to 50.

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Catskill, NYPosts: 5,564Member

    Really, this just reminds me of the whole Horde/Alliance thing in WoW all over again.

    Horde has always had the reputation of being the better players, or at least racking up the most wins against Alliance. Always plenty of Horde for BGs.. Never enough Alliance, etc...

    Seems to me it's just the way of things. Given the choice, more people will tend to play the "evil side" than the good side.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

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  • sgtbozsgtboz Tyler, TXPosts: 14Member

    I'm order on Iron Rock and we're holding our own in scenarios and rvr.  It seems like an almost balanced server so far.

    I do notice T2 scenario queues for me are rarely over 5 minutes, which is awesome.

    Bauz

    r20 eng

  • ronan32ronan32 limerickPosts: 1,418Member
    Originally posted by Warmaker


    Okay... I call my home at Iron-something server.  I have several toons there, all Order of course.
    Simply put, Order gets rolled, no if's, and's, or but's about it. 
    In RvR scenarios, we regularly lose out along the lines of 50-500, on a good showing by us, maybe 100-500.  If we're up REALLY early in the morning to catch the worm, we can roll them with moderate chances of success.
    In the regular regions, ever since I started playing WAR on that server, I recall seeing a region just ONCE under Order control, and that was 3 days ago at Chrace.  Everywhere else is regularly under Destruction control.
    So the regional bonuses practically never, ever, EVER go to Order.
    No Experience and Reknown bonuses since we have no control of the regions
    No Merchant Buy / Sell bonuses since we never have control of anything.
    We regularly get slaughtered, that it's increasingly pointless.  The only point really is to GIVE Destruction points, especially in scenarios where the winner naturally gets a fat set of points.
    A challenge is a nice thing, but not when the odds are so stacked against you.

     

    i have played both sides a good bit and i can tell you that destruction have better group mentallity..playing order i never get healed while on destruction i have heals on me the whole time. destruction just has better players.

  • WarmakerWarmaker San Diego, CAPosts: 2,231Member
    Originally posted by Majinash


    on my server order seems to win most scenarios.  just starting tier 3 so I don't know about them.  Destruction just seems to have a very large presence in tier 2 right now because of where the masses are at leveling, so they own most if not all the keeps.  we can still take keeps when we want them, and when I went into tier 3 I noticed we owned 1 keep in each pairing.
     
    I think you're blowing the problem out of proportion.  yes in open RvR destruction has a bit of an advantage, but in scenarios its all based on the people you get.  I've been rolled because my team stood around our flag, and let them grab it over and over and over (yes, 4 people just STOOD around it) and i've had matches where we never let them touch the flag, and dominate the match like 400 to 50.



     

    Not an exaggeration.

    I've been on vacation for the past several weeks.  When WAR came out, I got it on the 2nd day.  So I've had alot of time to try it out ever since I got it.

    I had many occurences of getting "rolled" as Order.  Doesn't matter if I go to any of the 3 racial regions, the end is always the same.

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • PhilssPhilss montreal, QCPosts: 433Member

    Sux :( On my server ( skull throne ) id say order is winning at least 50-60% of all scenario and world rvr is always even zone control are usualy in between .

  • GajariGajari Halifax, NSPosts: 984Member

    I'm on Avelorn, a med/med server most of the time. I just played about 5 Nordenwatch senarios and won 2 of them with ease, and one was a close call.  The other two we lost easily.  I this while a bunch of Order were taking everything over in Nordland without much of a fight.

    Earlier, I was over at the shadowlands or whatever (the High Elf equivalent) and it was half and half. We took a couple places, and they took a couple while we took the ones we got.

    Though the Dwarf area is all but deserted. There were a few of each side, and Destruction owned everything, but had I had at least one other person with me, I could've taken some places.

    All in all, seems somewhat balanced on my server, at least in the early zones.

  • WarmakerWarmaker San Diego, CAPosts: 2,231Member
    Originally posted by Philss


    Sux :( On my server ( skull throne ) id say order is winning at least 50-60% of all scenario and world rvr is always even zone control are usualy in between .



     

    The scenarios aren't even anywhere near 50/50 for us.  It's lopsided against us.

    World RVR is even worse.  There's no contest at all.

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ronan32


    i have played both sides a good bit and i can tell you that destruction have better group mentallity..playing order i never get healed while on destruction i have heals on me the whole time. destruction just has better players.

     

    I wonder why it is so?

    But this is a problem with all games with 2 sides fighting eachother, Mythic will have to find a way to order to attract more players (I have hard to belive that all good players like Chaos better than Law and all bad ones play order), the Warhammer world have many kick @ss classes that are tough and put a few of those in should even things out a bit.

  • Rayx0rRayx0r melbourne, FLPosts: 2,902Member

    its very even on Badlands also

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  • GruntiesGrunties Worcester, MAPosts: 859Member

    I'm sorry to hear you are having trouble on your server. Phoenix throne where I play seems to be fairly balanced, at least in the tiers I've been in (1 and 2). The first couple days were a little rough but I think we have really come back with a vengeance as everyone learns their roles and how to work together.

    Order has learned how to compensate for their lesser population count and just become better players. Destruction is lazy and if they don't have a population advantage at any given moment, their lack of skill tends to show.

    Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
    Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member

    On the sylvania server, Destruction crushes Order almost all the time in scenarios, especially Phoenix Gate and nobody has been playing open rvr at all because they know Destruction will out zerg Order every time.

    30
  • WarmakerWarmaker San Diego, CAPosts: 2,231Member

    My server's Order:Chaos pops show "Med:Med."

    But don't let that fool you that it's anywhere near balanced

    Edit to add:  Now, I still love the game, but damn... it gets disheartening to know that if I rolled Destruction, I'd gain XPs, Reknown a whole lot more faster.

    Scenarios alone I'd be raking in alot on Destruction since they win so lopsidedly practically all the time.

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • PhilssPhilss montreal, QCPosts: 433Member

    During CB i was playing on Abnorash it was a med order / high dest and we still had a ton of ORvR going .

     

    I remember defending mansdred hold in ostland for like 8 hours with like 20-30 order against a zerg of 40-50 dest it was a blast . In the end we even had more RP than the dest because we get a periodical 100 RP in t2 for defending .

     

    So ya beeing the underdog suck at time but thats just mean more stupid mindless dest zerg to wipe out with the boiloing oil :)

  • ronan32ronan32 limerickPosts: 1,418Member
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by ronan32
    i have played both sides a good bit and i can tell you that destruction have better group mentallity..playing order i never get healed while on destruction i have heals on me the whole time. destruction just has better players.

     

    I wonder why it is so?

    But this is a problem with all games with 2 sides fighting eachother, Mythic will have to find a way to order to attract more players (I have hard to belive that all good players like Chaos better than Law and all bad ones play order), the Warhammer world have many kick @ss classes that are tough and put a few of those in should even things out a bit.

     

    yes the warhammer world has many kickass classes, but order classes are not very exciting in my opinion..they all look rushed, especially the dwarfs and elves. They need to add a new race or class to order because they are not very appealing to the casual player.

  • FatGamerFatGamer Los Angeles, CAPosts: 126Member
    Originally posted by Gajari


    I'm on Avelorn, a med/med server most of the time. I just played about 5 Nordenwatch senarios and won 2 of them with ease, and one was a close call.  The other two we lost easily.  I this while a bunch of Order were taking everything over in Nordland without much of a fight.
    Earlier, I was over at the shadowlands or whatever (the High Elf equivalent) and it was half and half. We took a couple places, and they took a couple while we took the ones we got.
    Though the Dwarf area is all but deserted. There were a few of each side, and Destruction owned everything, but had I had at least one other person with me, I could've taken some places.
    All in all, seems somewhat balanced on my server, at least in the early zones.



     

    I am alsao on Avelorn. I play order, we win and control far more than destruction. Though, we are very organized and have formed a great alliance. People stop what they are doing and rush to an objective if destruction shows it's ugly head. We take keeps like taking candy from a baby. Our server is also very evenly balanced  = medium / medium!

    The Adventures of Fat Gamer - http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/FatGamer

  • PyrostasisPyrostasis dallas, TXPosts: 2,326Member
    Originally posted by Warmaker


    Okay... I call my home at Iron-something server.  I have several toons there, all Order of course.
    Simply put, Order gets rolled, no if's, and's, or but's about it. 
    In RvR scenarios, we regularly lose out along the lines of 50-500, on a good showing by us, maybe 100-500.  If we're up REALLY early in the morning to catch the worm, we can roll them with moderate chances of success.
    In the regular regions, ever since I started playing WAR on that server, I recall seeing a region just ONCE under Order control, and that was 3 days ago at Chrace.  Everywhere else is regularly under Destruction control.
    So the regional bonuses practically never, ever, EVER go to Order.
    No Experience and Reknown bonuses since we have no control of the regions
    No Merchant Buy / Sell bonuses since we never have control of anything.
    We regularly get slaughtered, that it's increasingly pointless.  The only point really is to GIVE Destruction points, especially in scenarios where the winner naturally gets a fat set of points.
    A challenge is a nice thing, but not when the odds are so stacked against you.

    So make some friends and run with them on a regular basis? I run a full group with my guild daily... and its a fluke if we lose a scenario.

  • GorairGorair Austin, TXPosts: 959Member

    yesterday on ostermark we avg winning 1 of 3 of the T2 BG in troll country  , 4 for 4 in the dwarf one , and stil to this day have not gotten into the t2 elf one. Order owns t2 about 60-70% of the time but destruction makes a foray into the rvr zone daily and holds the keeps for hours at a time with massive numbers showing up always. We founght over a flag point yesterday for about 2 hours .. it changed hands every 15 minutes for all that time!

    Troll crossing is a hard one to win if your ENTIRE team isnt up to it. If 3 guys go off  ala wow arena style from your team its over and done 500 to zip.

    But those 2 times we do lose is usually 500 to 50 or 60. But again its bercause we wil get a new group that goes all we are badass and dont have to listen and poof we lose badly. But overall more order are starting to realize that its a kill the flag guy not hang out on top of the hill until you get blown off by trolls, and the bonus you get for winning tops ANYTHING you can get by trying to farm RP's at the ramps.

    few points to try possibly - ( just my opinion im no expert just stuff i noticed)

    Witch hunters are needed badly lol , i love seeing one tear into a flag carrier and kill him from behind snice they ignore armor from the back and snares with every shot , he usually dies right afterwards but still it gets the job done. letting the rest of the group catch up.

    Also one guy on a mount can upset the whole thing so whoever has the most mounted guys right at the start can throw it all out of wack if your side doesnt have mounted ppl.

    anyway i think it just comes down to whos playing , we still have people from wow who think the arena style of 3 on 3 is king AND DAoC crews who think 8 on 8 is the only way , both styles screw up the BG's since this has a different mechanic to it. Its slowyly changing tho as they play more and im sure get tired of seeing Destruction getting 10k xp and 2k renown while they only get 1200 xp and 300 renown.

     

     

     

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

  • SteamRangerSteamRanger Great Northwest, WAPosts: 920Member Uncommon

    I think what would help in a big way would be the addition of the missing classes. The Empire needs their Knights. I think that a lot of Dark Elves move to the Chaos zones because of the lack of a tank class, which adds to the imbalance. Giving them their tank would likely keep them more in their racial areas. I'm also strongly in favor of Mythic being a sport and adding the iconic Dwarf Slayer they showed us in the first cinematic teaser. I think if the Slayers were added, a lot more people would be playing Order, just for the "cool" factor.

    "Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
    "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift

  • originaleggoriginalegg cedar grove, NJPosts: 1,099Member

    wow everyone in this thread really needs to think about what they are saying.  I hear this nonsense all the time, and it makes me laugh each time.  "destruction always wins"  "omg order players dont know how to work as a team"  "destruction cant work together and order always rolls us".

    All of these random generalizations.  You think the other side is any smarter than your side?  No.

     In scenarios, I have seen laughable destruction groups, and well organized ones.  Same thing on the order side.  Personally I have won twice as many scenarios than I have lost in PUGs....and have yet to lose  scenario where my guild has at least 6 people in it.  And that is simply because we were on vent and will always win against a  PUG.

    When numbers are equal...it has nothing to do with faction.  learn to play, step up and get organized. 

    We get rolled in RVR simply because we are insanely outnumbered, but hopefully that evens out soon...though it is getting old. 

    We have always played the underdog in past mmos....horde in WoW, rebels in SWG (though ive been reading that rebels were the favorite on other servers, though by far the underdog on ours) etc...  So we unfortunatly decided to order on WAR to give us a challenge.

    If i were to make a completely unfair generalization based on my experience...i would say that when the numbers are even, destruction is laugh out loud bad and order wins 80% of the time with most of those times being complete 500-50 dominations.

  • GorairGorair Austin, TXPosts: 959Member

    I wish we did have a "cool" class on order, but i think the order classes overall are WAY more powerful that Destruction but in a different way. By powerful i mean if used properly ... let me explain before the hate starts flying ( I AM order btw a Warrior Priest).

    Destruction seems to be front end everything while order is utility and over-time effects. If you use this to your advantage tyou weill find you can push destructiion back alot more than you think would be possible.

    if you can last thru the initial MASSIVE damage / HEALS destruction puts out the 1st 10 seconds then you will prolly push them back even if outnumbered. Also try to use the environment when you can its a great friend when used properly and your worst enemy when used wrong -

     For example:  we did this last night in t2 rvr , we pushed back about twice our numbers in open RVR all the way back to their city  from Morr point just because our healers got all dedicated for about 15 seconds to KEEP our dwarves alive! and we held the line of the rush( of chosen and Mar's)  then the flankers ( witch hunters, engineers, and WP's mostly plus a few SM's )  got in with their healers and casters disrupting them on the ledge just north of the point and when those guys ran the tanks in the middle where the front line was fighting were left without supprt and died quickly ... was a blast.

    Then they did it to us outside their city , a group of destruction caught us movnig to the keep and the keep group sallied out and we got sandwiched and eaten alive ... WAY FUN!

     

     

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

    Sorry to hear your server is a little lob sided.  The server I play is slightly order bias.  8 out of 10 scenarios order wins but the RvR areas are normally swarming with destruction.  Either way its pretty balanced right now. 

  • Originally posted by Philss


    Sux :( On my server ( skull throne ) id say order is winning at least 50-60% of all scenario and world rvr is always even zone control are usualy in between .

     

    I made an alt on skull throne for senarios exclusively (since it is very populated ie short Qs).  I agree with this statement for t1 and t2.  Scenario were 50/50.  Also I did a little RvR in T1 at the end of my term at lvl 11 and one of the guys who was in a bad group that just fought tanks and never attacked healers was convinced all of order sucked because he had two bad group draws in a row.  Well I had the same ones and then had 3 good ones where we literally mopped the floor with them.  So i don't put a lot of stock in this stuff.

     

    And healing wasn't the problem.  We lost because people would sit there and fight tanks while 4 healers in the back were healing.  If we got some people who applied pressure we did quite well.

     

    T2 murderball and flag running was similar but with different emphasis on what was important.  Did well in murderball in dwarf area.  Won three in a row, one of which was super close.

     

    IMO anyone saying Order or Destro suck or are awesome should only speak for their server.  It varies widely. 

  • TekkamanTekkaman Sacramento, CAPosts: 158Member
    Originally posted by Warmaker


    Okay... I call my home at Iron-something server.  I have several toons there, all Order of course.
    Simply put, Order gets rolled,

     

    Maybe if the Order on your server paid any sort of attention to things then you guys would win. You don't even know what server you're on... How can anybody expect you to know what class you're playing and what skills you have?

     

    Work from the ground up and maybe you'll find your answer as to why you think Order is always getting rolled.

  • EvolvedMonkyEvolvedMonky Tulsa, OKPosts: 549Member

    I only stay in the elf areas but my server seems balanced.  Destruction usualy owns the obj but Ive never lost a rvr battle (A few of us had to run back).  You can always find destruction in a rvr zone but finding another order is rare.  PvE area seems full though. Alot of people wanna pve over on order so ive noticed.

    image
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