Won't be griefers playing DF, it will be people who enjoy PVP. i think there are a lot more people around who are aching to play a PVP sandbox MMO than people think.
There will be fewer griefers in DF than WOW simply because in DF, griefing has consequences, whereas in WOW, griefers can corpse camp you all day if they so choose.
MMORPG.com: Many players have certainly been looking forward to such a PvP heavy game. With the system you have in place, do you fear that griefing and ganking will lead to a smaller community in the long run?
Tasos Flambouras: Griefing makes an impact in games not geared to deal with it. Darkfall is made for PvP. We're sick and tired of the instant association of griefing with PvP. The PvP community shouldn't constantly be discounted like that. There's a lot of griefing going on in non PvP MMOs, like kill stealing, training, camping, and when these same games enable limited PvP, it only gets worse. Griefers in these games aren't accountable for their actions and the victims can't do anything about it. Most of the complaints about griefing come from these games. In Darkfall there's accountability via the alignment system and player enforced justice. Someone can try to grief, but won't have fun for very long as there's an alignment reward for his disposal. In Darkfall you're not a weakling starting out and you can defend yourself so newbie killing isn't such a safe pastime like it is in other games. Full loot and unrestricted PvP will also work against the griefer. NPC guards in towns provide added protection against aggressive griefing. There are no zones so griefing associated with zoning won't be a factor. As for ganking, it's not all about numbers in Darkfall. Area of effect spells, friendly fire, and collision detection ensure that a small disciplined force can cause some damage against superior numbers. There are no levels so it's not easy to make out the "weaker" characters, and in Darkfall even new players have the capacity to defend themselves, to lay low, or to escape. There is no radar or floating names, which can work as an added protection for players traveling through dangerous areas. I don't want to make it sound like we have a cure-all and that Darkfall will be free of all the problems that have plagued other games in the past. What I'm saying is that we've looked at these closely, both as players and as developers, and we've spent a lot of time addressing them and we'll continue to do so if and as they come up. One thing is for sure: We've empowered the Darkfall players in such a way that they can self-regulate.
believe it or not, i think the real question about DF is not how good the PVP will be, because i think we can assume it will be 'good' -- the real question is how good will the PVE/crafting/citybuilding be, because that will decide whether the host of 50-50 players (players who want to PVP half the time, PVE half the time) will play DF or not.
All about the entertainment value there no need too aim so high for uber high end consoles imo all about the fun and if ya have played uo for 10 years you of all others would know funfactor and rp what mmo are truelly and based around but nope they have been corrupted and ruined by the corporations who have taken them over.
Wall of text is long, but yes I agree. There has been a severe shortage of Darkfall-type games over the past few years.
I think theres a big reason for that..... Lets look at UO, the game that Darkfall is most often compared to......It was considered a brutal game by most who played it early....it was FFA PVP and you died fast and often if you were new.......Uo didnt really take off until trammel was introduced.....Trammel was basically the land where FFA PVP was not allowed.....Once it came in the population of UO almost doubled and very few people played in Felucca anymore...... I think Darkfall will be more successful than UO but I just dont see any FFA PVP game getting a million people to play......I think tis a small minority that likes that type of gameplay and it wouldnt shock me one iota if Darkfall introduced a Trammel type of world sometime after its released......
Honestly, Darkfall could be interesting but your analysis of the situation was obviously wholly motivated by some irrational need to pimp the game. I wonder what your vested interest in the game is. Not that it matters to me.
I am the only person who is sick of hearing the hype from darkfall fanbois (AkA: darkfellows). Can't you darkfellows keep your darkfall post on the dark fellow forum?
C'mon, when will you people just give it up and believe? Get over yourself and your lack of faith.
Can't you see that Darkfall is going to kick WoW in the shins and then then decapitate it like the little bitch that it is?
*is literally rolling on the floor laughing* HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! Your one funny person lol
What you don't "believe" in the Church of Darkfallology? For shame. You might be denied entrance into heaven for not "believing".
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Aventurine, the developers of Darkfall have officially announced a release date for the "first time" in 7 years of their game development (7 years can easily be considered common when compared to other MMORPG games), and the release will be the end of 2008. The beta will begin in October, and you can sign in their website: Darkfallonline.com.
So 7 years in development - they are going to have a 2 month beta. Doesnt bode well for a good release does it?
I cant see publishers wanting to put it out post christmas and miss the major sales period. So that gives them 8 weeks (10 if they start today) to get all the bugs, client issues, server & load issues resolved.
I fully agree with the op. Unfortunately the majority of gamers these days do not. They like their grinds. They like their epic lootz. They like being herded. They don't want risk. They don't want to think. They don't want actual skill to be the deciding factor in pvp. Sad but true
you are joking right, i dont think its like that mate
look at some of the most succesful rpg games, there isnt a lot of skill to it
They like their grinds - like most people who play games, you cant tell me you never just grinded in rpg games, what you fail to realise is that one of the major factors in an rpg game (even mmo) is that the story when all the quests are done there isnt much left to do other then grind.....its just part of the rpg mechanics.
(morrowind had grinding to level up) darkfall will also be heavy grind based since unless you make lots of friends who are always online sooner or later you will play by yourself and you will need your skills higher
They like their epic lootz. - who doesnt, you are telling me darkfall inst going to have an epic sword that everyone will want, dont think that just beacsue you have to aim your arrows and fireballs means you wont care which items you carry....you will like all games
They like being herded. - i dont understand what you mean by herded, if you mean they want to play the most popular game well then its not herding its common sense, why would you want to play a game thats not popular, one of the perks of wow is that it is a high class game, no matter how you look at it it has a great devs department and always will give good quality gameplay and connections....and a superb customer service. we all buy addidas for a reason
They don't want risk. - ??? what do you mean, risk as in dying and having too loose some skills or items...no they just want to play safe - trust me once you wasted 6 hours trying to get an item and then having someone who is stronger then you kill you and take it is really stressful
They don't want to think. - ?????? explain
They don't want actual skill to be the deciding factor in pvp. - not everone who plays mmo games play for pvp a lot play for social reasons.
- has anyone noticed the faults that will come with darkfall like the fact that the archer class or fps class is going to be the strongerst....think about it
level your speed and your archery geet lots of arrows and just shoot any warrior or mage and run away, shoot run away shoot.....since i cant just highlihght and use a spell like WoW iam going to have to run up to him and attack and since he will most likely be faster there is no way to actually stop a archer...same for mages...they will just shoot fireballs untill the melee class dies, imagine a group of 10 archers just shooting at you....what are you to do in that situation.
plus this game is just going to become an fps, all the melee players will be bunny hoping to save their lives, all the mages will use fireballs and slow or freeze spells...i say this because in pvp no matter wha tgame it is there is always "the best" way to win.....if its a game someone will find a best way to kll and everyone else will copy it.
darkfall sounds good but once you think about it its like all other games jsut a bit harder and stressful
Won't be griefers playing DF, it will be people who enjoy PVP.
You're kidding, right? Calling any game full pvp with player looting is like throwing raw meat to a pack of starving wolves...the gankers and griefers are giddy at the prospect. The problem is that run-of-the-mill players aren't going to have anything to do with the game so the population will be very small. The gankers won't have enough targets, will get bored and will run back to whatever game they are currently using to fulfill their anti-social needs.
I fully agree with the op. Unfortunately the majority of gamers these days do not. They like their grinds. They like their epic lootz. They like being herded. They don't want risk. They don't want to think. They don't want actual skill to be the deciding factor in pvp. Sad but true
you are joking right, i dont think its like that mate
look at some of the most succesful rpg games, there isnt a lot of skill to it
They like their grinds - like most people who play games, you cant tell me you never just grinded ...
They like their epic lootz. - who doesnt, ...
They like being herded. - i dont understand what you mean by herded, ...
They don't want risk. - ??? what do you mean, ...
They don't want to think. - ?????? explain
They don't want actual skill to be the deciding factor in pvp. - not everone who plays mmo games play for pvp a lot play for social reasons.
...
- has anyone noticed the faults that will come with darkfall like the fact that the archer class or fps class is going to be the strongerst....think about it
...
plus this game is just going to become an fps, all the melee players will be bunny hoping to save their lives, all the mages will use fireballs and slow or freeze spells...i say this because in pvp no matter wha tgame it is there is always "the best" way to win.....if its a game someone will find a best way to kll and everyone else will copy it.
...
darkfall sounds good but once you think about it its like all other games jsut a bit harder and stressful
...
sry for spelling very busy at the mo (Working)
Introduction to Forum Rules 101: If you read the original post, you would understand what he was addressing in his points. I know it was a long post - and I apologize if it was boring for you, but if you are really interested in being part of this discussion, you need to pay attention to the rest of the thread.
Unfortunately, you did follow a similar approach when you brought up your assumptions about ranged vs melee PvP balance issues, and tried to sell them to the forum readers as mere facts. Similar combat issues has been extensively discussed several times in Darkfall forums, and devs have brought many satisfying explanations in their updates. If you are concerned about an issue as such and not knowledgeble about it, before speculating and making up facts; please try to learn more about it, either by asking in a thread like this, or doing some research in the games website. Surely, there will be some of us who would like to help you out.
Won't be griefers playing DF, it will be people who enjoy PVP.
You're kidding, right? Calling any game full pvp with player looting is like throwing raw meat to a pack of starving wolves...the gankers and griefers are giddy at the prospect. The problem is that run-of-the-mill players aren't going to have anything to do with the game so the population will be very small. The gankers won't have enough targets, will get bored and will run back to whatever game they are currently using to fulfill their anti-social needs.
Wow, you're so scared from those gankers, I'll almost believe you've been ganked and been looted several times. I just don't think you've played a well designed sandbox, or played a full loot PvP game with alignment hits.
You don't even bother to find out if the devs have taken any precautions for the end results everyone has been assuming. We're all aware what the game is proposing for those players you keep mentioning, make no mistake, and how any game would turn out to be a chaos and anarchy if they are left alone to their chaotic ways or not penalized for their unruliness. However, the same dynamics of the real world applies to the sandbox games. Some of you keep ignoring that any successful sand box game will also look for possible solutions to anarchy / over-violence issues, not by separating worlds by creating a new non-PvP world (such as Trammel). Rather by giving more governing controls to players and clans like its featured in Darkfall. The system works in real life the same way it will work in Darkfall, that the more stable and consistent your realm, the more prosper and powerful your clan will end up. There will be many battles between clans for power struggles over resources - no doubt about it. Some cities will be destroyed and built again, some non-PvP players will be perished, and upsetted.
However wise diplomacy will pay more, strong alignments will be more rewarding, and the most powerful clans will succeed by acting clever, not by pissing off everyone and battling non-stop, but by making allies and only starting battles that they will most likely win - by taking minimum risks for maximum reward. Governing a strong clan will be a risk management issue in Darkfall, as it is in real life. In return, there will be relatively peaceful areas (most likely on the regions close to race capitals and newbie settlements) where the violence will be kept away from the beginner players - as every game needs a proper introduction to a new player until they are up in a certain stage of that learning curve.
Darkfall has a dynamic system where there is a solution for every possible problem - please look for your answers int he website, and stop assuming the worst.
Havent read most of the posts, but have to ask...Is Darkfall still planning on using their enforced First person combat mode?
The melee combat will be third person as it can be seen from the last video. I'm also hoping the ranged attacks will as well be third person, however there are some dev quotes stating that the ranged combat will require the spell caster or the archer to be in first person view. I would like to remind however that there are no classes int his game and that most PvP players will one way or another master a ranged/magical combat skill or two to counter different styles. It's just common sense.
The source of the problem is not if WAR is the clone of WoW or not. The most competitive games that are released or in production are feeling the necessity to repeat or imitate some successful aspects of previously released games. I believe there is nothing wrong with that. Having played WoW for 4 years, played AoC for 3 months, and now playing WAR beta for a few days. I see the good and bad parts in all those three games. Folks, I've played UO for 10 years, still playing it in some free server, then played DAoC and ShadowBane for 3-4 years each before WoW and WoW-alike games. In my experience, I find WAR and AoC considerably similar to WoW in respects of talents, leveling and grind based system. WAR's PvP, PvM, even its RvR system are not satisfactorily revolutionizing the genre. If you are expecting anything of such novelty, you will not find it in WAR. What will you find in WAR? WAR is an evolution; a much better PvP then WoW, much stable version of AoC, still the same leveling and grind issues even if it's less PvE oriented. However, your concerns and the behavior of seeking for some change from the main-stream MMORPG is well understood. You're tired of the same UI, where you see the minimap, a console which just helps you choose from your available skills in which in order to kill a mob, all you have to do is stand close to it, and click, wait for its cooldown timer, then click another skill, and this goes on and on and on. We're so used to this same rotation of clicks that we call this PvP now. What happened to aiming, timing your own swings or shots yourself, moving, rolling mouse so that your sword will collide with your opponent, blocking him phsyically so he will not run through you and escape? Slicing your own comrade accidentally, or healing your opponent? Attacking anyone, anywhere.. No forced boundaries, no illogical limitations on what to attack.. At the end, who wins a fight in these main-stream game PvPs? First and foremost, you have to have the best equipment, epics/purples/rares.. what ever you wanna call them.. You need them to survive when facing versus another opponent with the same level equipment, otherwise most of the time you stand no chance. How do you get it? You have to grind dungeons (or battlegrounds). At the end, you'll spend excessive amounts of time to get these required items, that's a given fact. It's so sad that everyone is so accustomed to this fact, that equipment in a game is so much higher in our priorities list. What I don't understand is, so many of you don't even question the fact that you're playing for that uber equipment during the whole game, and rate a game if it also gives you any entertainment in the meanwhile or not. So, the fun factor while your grinding comes after the "grinding" in your priorities list when "grinding" (not playing) a game. How would a revolutionary game overcome grinding? By making the game less item oriented, and base it on the player skill. A revolutionary game should not be based on equipment, PvP should not be decided by the best weapon/armor or by the level of the character, it should be decided by the "skill" of the player. Don't feel bad if you wanna spend your many hours to be better at PvP, you'll still be successful if you've spent 40 hours weekly to get there. The difference is, you've improved yourself, not your toons equipment. You've spent time to improve your skills to control your swings to meet your opponent, or your skill to aim with your character. You should enjoy killing other players who may have acquired that better equipment with no skill, if you have the player skill and know how to use the skills of your character, you should be able to beat any end game character if he is not skilled enough to beat you. You should be able to loot your opponents freely, and if you brought your expensive sword to the fight and got killed, face the consequences. Wouldn't that give us a risk management? A revolutionary game should force us to take these kinds of decision when PvP'ing, that is what's called "hardcore". What else you need to survive in PvP in these main-stream games? You have to know your enemy, since they are from one of several given classes (namely, the tank, the healer, and the ranged/melee DPS guy), it's easy to understand what type of enemy they are by their looks. How funny is that? Well, if that doesn't help, you can always check their health bars, because it is written there for you. Great. Now that you know what level your enemy is (so you know his capabilities/DPS rate and how much health and mana he/she has), and you have to be within 5 levels of that guy if you really stand any chance to beat him, it is now the time to remember how to counter him/her with your given talents. We're calling this PvP? Doesn't that feel more like a card game, anyone watched one of those Asian cartoons (ie. Picachu - my 5 year old cuisine likes them); just a little bit more complex when all the classes and talent trees considered in these "PvP" games. You don't need any personal hand skills, you don't even have to move your toon around in the world most of the time, perhaps except for the time when you need to keep a distance from your opponent. Click the right button when its cool down is over, and watch your opponent die - or in other words, "I've picked you Picachu - go get'em" when its 30 second cool down is over. The level system fails so bad that you stand no chance against some "MMORPG disabled person" if he is 5 levels above you. If you're a healer, you are stuck to healing. what about hybrids, what about other gaming styles that are not enforced by the game designers? Why are we not allowed to select our own set of skills from a pool, and see if its working better? If you're a warrior (tank etc), how stupid is it that you are not equipped with some healing skills/spells? Why have we been limited to this idioticity? Stray away from the common classes and find out if you fail miserably or develop a unique playing style which only fits you, not the other several thousands who followed the exact same talent tree, have the exact same equipment sets and use the same tactic for the same opponent class. You see how limiting that is? Just take a look at your favorite toon in your favorite game, and tell me that it's unique.. other than its name and the way his facial hair/horns or skin looks. Everyone wants that uber tier set only designed for their class.. Wooo, such a big deal.. You and the rest of all the other several thousands of players (or millions in WoW) who have the same class will eventually own that set, or dream about owning it. And you'll be so unique, stand different among others.. Is it a joke that all 10 million WoW players are looking forward to get that one single epic set designed for their own character that will finally give them "the edge"? We really need a revolution! We need a game that will set us free of these item based worlds. The game world you're given; a lot of junk quests that you're forced to move around the map (most of them useless grinds). Take a look at your map in your favorite MMORPG, can you see the roads? You're most likely to follow them, or you'll hit a hidden wall/mountain that is impassable, that you have to move around them to get a quest/grind done. Are you aware that there is a level requirement for each of those areas, that if you try passing through that region as a lowbie, you're as good as dead. Don't you see how the developers herding you around the maps to get what they want to be done. How fun! We have instances in these games that takes away from any dangerous interactions with the rest of the world, you and the select few mobs, or you and the select few other players. Thanks for covering our backs developers.. Thanks for limiting our freedom of interaction. Why do they need these instances, or these hidden walls? Because the game is based on levels.. The herding is required, becuase you won't stand a chance against a mob 10 levels above you, cause the game is not based on your personal skills. Because, you can't be successful in these games if you have not spend 150 hours with that specific character, even if you've spend other 1500 hours with another character in the same account. These games unfortunatly have no memory, your player skill matter just a little bit. Your toon is everything (and the item you hold with him), and the experience you as a player gained playing the game means "nothing". In the next generation game, when you really know the game, you won't have to be considered as a newbie when you are playing another low level alt, when you really mastered a character, you should master your own player skill on that game. Therefore when you start a new character, you'll be limited less to your toon, since the game will be more player skill oriented and not level or equipment of the character. Therefore, even your opponent has created his character two days ago, you'll ve careful and not be decieved of his looks, you'll have more dangerous opponents, and the armor or weapon he uses is less of a signifier of his threat level. Isn't that more exciting? The revolutionary game should take the instances away from the map as well as the hidden walls. Therefore, the same crowd should share and fight for the limited amount of mob resource a server has to offer. You want a hardcore game, there you go. The uber items? How about if you could create them? What is wrong with these main-stream games' crafting limitations? How come we suppose to grind all month for that epic set? If we're playing this game, and we're using those items, how come we can't craft them? Doesn't that take a lot from a game for the role playing gamers who like to play crafters? In a revolutionary game, the crafters should be capable of crafting any endgame item that a character needs. Purples? Epics? No more soul items. You should be able to loose them (or loot them from other players), but you should easily buy or craft them back as well. That is how a game would be less item based. Two birds in one stone; give the crafters all the freedom AND the respect they deserve, and save the players from this cursed grinding mentality. Perfect solution for two huge problems! What is RvR if you can not control and destroy other sides castle, keep or houses? And again, why are you enforced in to which realm you will be part of? Oh, because of the limited race and class system. I want a game that can let me be who I want to be, not be dependent on the race I choose, I should still become part of that alignment I fell I belong to, if I want to be able to kill my own race, I should be given that freedom - facing the penalty of being hunted by my race. I want to see epic battles/sieges that changes the politics and regional controls of the map I'm playing in. There should be sieging weapons and huge ships for naval battles and they should be controlled by players that can hold 100s of players at a time and sail around the world, attack coastal fortresses and take them over. That is way past RvR, such a system would be much more dynamic, because players would decide where a realm starts and ends, not the developers. They decide on their alignments, they decide which race they should let into their clans, and which clans/races to fight against. Every new game in this new genre will claim that they are different, unfortunately, big companies play towards a WoW player base. AoC failed, WAR did what WoW could do in WoW2. Now if you're looking for a revolution, you have to look into other games by independent companies; the best and the foremost example that I'm looking forward to play now is Darkfall. All the problems I've addressed, and revolutionary ideas/solutions I've mentioned in this post that are different from the main-stream MMORPGs are a few of the many countless Darkfall features, and they are realizing their promises as you can see in their videos. Aventurine, the developers of Darkfall have officially announced a release date for the "first time" in 7 years of their game development (7 years can easily be considered common when compared to other MMORPG games), and the release will be the end of 2008. The beta will begin in October, and you can sign in their website: Darkfallonline.com. They've also released a 17 minute gameplay video recently, and you can download it from their website as well. Thanks for reading, and good luck on your ventures of seeking the next MMORPG you've been looking for, hopefully you will also check in to Darkfall.
All they promise is great and it sounds like it will be an exciting fun filled game, but it could turn out to be a bug filled pile of crap that has 1/2 of what they showing. ( lets hope not ) Its way to early to say this is or will be a great game.
Aventurine, the developers of Darkfall have officially announced a release date for the "first time" in 7 years of their game development (7 years can easily be considered common when compared to other MMORPG games), and the release will be the end of 2008. The beta will begin in October, and you can sign in their website: Darkfallonline.com.
So 7 years in development - they are going to have a 2 month beta. Doesnt bode well for a good release does it?
I cant see publishers wanting to put it out post christmas and miss the major sales period. So that gives them 8 weeks (10 if they start today) to get all the bugs, client issues, server & load issues resolved.
Good luck with that.
Well, in their defense, if you look through the archive of developer journals they have been playtesting the game since the beginning of 2008 using paid testers. they have stated their objective is not for players to encounter major bugs in the beta, but mainly to playtest the real game.
it's also worth noting that unlike other MMOs, DF has full creative control over their distributor/publisher, and given DF's "when it's done" motto, if it's not ready by christmas i think they'll push back the release.
- has anyone noticed the faults that will come with darkfall like the fact that the archer class or fps class is going to be the strongest....think about it
The developers have said that pound-for-pound, melee is the strongest, so this is false. archers and casters have to have decent aim to be successful remember.
level your speed and your archery get lots of arrows and just shoot any warrior or mage and run away, shoot run away shoot.....since i cant just highlihght and use a spell like WoW i am going to have to run up to him and attack and since he will most likely be faster there is no way to actually stop a archer...same for mages...they will just shoot fireballs untill the melee class dies, imagine a group of 10 archers just shooting at you....what are you to do in that situation.
dodge? cast spells/fire arrows back at him? you know... tactics? if you are in a 1v10 of course you should lose if you attempt to fight them -- smart people would just run away.
in a 10v10, form a column with large shield users at the front and healers behind healing him and just charge them. you can cast while moving in Darkfall.
plus this game is just going to become an fps, all the melee players will be bunny hoping to save their lives, all the mages will use fireballs and slow or freeze spells...i say this because in pvp no matter wha tgame it is there is always "the best" way to win.....if its a game someone will find a best way to kll and everyone else will copy it.
no bunnyhopping in DF because jumping uses stamina, and without stamina you can't attack or run.
darkfall sounds good but once you think about it its like all other games jsut a bit harder and stressful
i'm sure Darkfall will be 'harder', but a lot of us are sick of WOW-style easy-mode everything, static-spawned brain-dead auto-attacking mobs with no intelligence, PVP that means nothing, epic items that 90% of the server have, no unique or evolving story..... the list goes on and on.
bottom line: Darkfall offers a lot more than just PVP; you should read about the game before criticising IMO.
However wise diplomacy will pay more, strong alignments will be more rewarding, and the most powerful clans will succeed by acting clever, not by pissing off everyone and battling non-stop, but by making allies and only starting battles that they will most likely win - by taking minimum risks for maximum reward. Governing a strong clan will be a risk management issue in Darkfall, as it is in real life. In return, there will be relatively peaceful areas (most likely on the regions close to race capitals and newbie settlements) where the violence will be kept away from the beginner players - as every game needs a proper introduction to a new player until they are up in a certain stage of that learning curve. Darkfall has a dynamic system where there is a solution for every possible problem - please look for your answers int he website, and stop assuming the worst.
If you honestly think you'll see this kind of subtlety in a mmorpg anytime soon I have a bridge in Alaska to sell you...
Darkfall is going to be a gankfest...until there are no more targets and then the gankers will move on to the next game.
Won't be griefers playing DF, it will be people who enjoy PVP.
You're kidding, right? Calling any game full pvp with player looting is like throwing raw meat to a pack of starving wolves...the gankers and griefers are giddy at the prospect. The problem is that run-of-the-mill players aren't going to have anything to do with the game so the population will be very small. The gankers won't have enough targets, will get bored and will run back to whatever game they are currently using to fulfill their anti-social needs.
Wow, you're so scared from those gankers, I'll almost believe you've been ganked and been looted several times. I just don't think you've played a well designed sandbox, or played a full loot PvP game with alignment hits.
You don't even bother to find out if the devs have taken any precautions for the end results everyone has been assuming. We're all aware what the game is proposing for those players you keep mentioning, make no mistake, and how any game would turn out to be a chaos and anarchy if they are left alone to their chaotic ways or not penalized for their unruliness. However, the same dynamics of the real world applies to the sandbox games. Some of you keep ignoring that any successful sand box game will also look for possible solutions to anarchy / over-violence issues, not by separating worlds by creating a new non-PvP world (such as Trammel). Rather by giving more governing controls to players and clans like its featured in Darkfall. The system works in real life the same way it will work in Darkfall, that the more stable and consistent your realm, the more prosper and powerful your clan will end up. There will be many battles between clans for power struggles over resources - no doubt about it. Some cities will be destroyed and built again, some non-PvP players will be perished, and upsetted.
However wise diplomacy will pay more, strong alignments will be more rewarding, and the most powerful clans will succeed by acting clever, not by pissing off everyone and battling non-stop, but by making allies and only starting battles that they will most likely win - by taking minimum risks for maximum reward. Governing a strong clan will be a risk management issue in Darkfall, as it is in real life. In return, there will be relatively peaceful areas (most likely on the regions close to race capitals and newbie settlements) where the violence will be kept away from the beginner players - as every game needs a proper introduction to a new player until they are up in a certain stage of that learning curve.
Darkfall has a dynamic system where there is a solution for every possible problem - please look for your answers int he website, and stop assuming the worst.
Why don't the incredible DF supporters stop assuming the very BEST? Seriously, you cry havoc all day and tell the skeptics to just believe everything that's written on the Homepage while praising the game to the high heavens and believing that EVERYthing in the game will work out -PERFECTLY-.
It's a double-edged sword you know. No one knows if this game will deliver...nor does anyone know if it won't. Claiming one or the other as a fact at this point is foolish.
Wow, this thread surprised me. I got to the end and found out the OP was talking about Darkfall... heh. With that said, I will agree with most of what you said. However, I cannot see Darkfall suceeding in every aspect that they have been trying to sell for the past, what, 7 years? Maybe that's just the jaded MMO gamer inside of me, but it seems too good to be true, even after the videos have been released, a beta sign up, and a release date.
I think Darkfall will be a "wait and see" game for most of us. It seems too good to be true on paper, so we'll have to wait and see. In all honesty, I hope it's what it says it is, because that would be my perfect MMO. In reality though? I can't see it happening.
Havent read most of the posts, but have to ask...Is Darkfall still planning on using their enforced First person combat mode?
The melee combat will be third person as it can be seen from the last video. I'm also hoping the ranged attacks will as well be third person, however there are some dev quotes stating that the ranged combat will require the spell caster or the archer to be in first person view. I would like to remind however that there are no classes int his game and that most PvP players will one way or another master a ranged/magical combat skill or two to counter different styles. It's just common sense.
Thanks... No enforced first person view in combat is good news!
"Introduction to Forum Rules 101: If you read the original post, you would understand what he was addressing in his points. I know it was a long post - and I apologize if it was boring for you, but if you are really interested in being part of this discussion, you need to pay attention to the rest of the thread.
Unfortunately, you did follow a similar approach when you brought up your assumptions about ranged vs melee PvP balance issues, and tried to sell them to the forum readers as mere facts. Similar combat issues has been extensively discussed several times in Darkfall forums, and devs have brought many satisfying explanations in their updates. If you are concerned about an issue as such and not knowledgeble about it, before speculating and making up facts; please try to learn more about it, either by asking in a thread like this, or doing some research in the games website. Surely, there will be some of us who would like to help you out."
Introduction to hype 101, Adventurine is the king of such. Just because some dev says something does not make it true. Most of what Adventurine says we take with a grain of salt these days. They have lied so many times that even the wolf is laughing his butt off.
We will have to wait and see when the game comes out what features are included and what are not. Don't go holding your breath, Darkfall won't see the light of day in 2008, might be 2009 though. If you want evidence of such, even the publisher was a no show at the recent Leipzig show. If they had a game that was even close to playable it would have been shown there.
Comments
Wall of text FTW!
Won't be griefers playing DF, it will be people who enjoy PVP. i think there are a lot more people around who are aching to play a PVP sandbox MMO than people think.
There will be fewer griefers in DF than WOW simply because in DF, griefing has consequences, whereas in WOW, griefers can corpse camp you all day if they so choose.
believe it or not, i think the real question about DF is not how good the PVP will be, because i think we can assume it will be 'good' -- the real question is how good will the PVE/crafting/citybuilding be, because that will decide whether the host of 50-50 players (players who want to PVP half the time, PVE half the time) will play DF or not.
OMG I'm amazed the name javac hasn't been taken before
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Evidently not many programmers here ;-)
All about the entertainment value there no need too aim so high for uber high end consoles imo all about the fun and if ya have played uo for 10 years you of all others would know funfactor and rp what mmo are truelly and based around but nope they have been corrupted and ruined by the corporations who have taken them over.
I think theres a big reason for that..... Lets look at UO, the game that Darkfall is most often compared to......It was considered a brutal game by most who played it early....it was FFA PVP and you died fast and often if you were new.......Uo didnt really take off until trammel was introduced.....Trammel was basically the land where FFA PVP was not allowed.....Once it came in the population of UO almost doubled and very few people played in Felucca anymore...... I think Darkfall will be more successful than UO but I just dont see any FFA PVP game getting a million people to play......I think tis a small minority that likes that type of gameplay and it wouldnt shock me one iota if Darkfall introduced a Trammel type of world sometime after its released......
Honestly, Darkfall could be interesting but your analysis of the situation was obviously wholly motivated by some irrational need to pimp the game. I wonder what your vested interest in the game is. Not that it matters to me.
C'mon, when will you people just give it up and believe? Get over yourself and your lack of faith.
Can't you see that Darkfall is going to kick WoW in the shins and then then decapitate it like the little bitch that it is?
*is literally rolling on the floor laughing* HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! Your one funny person lol
What you don't "believe" in the Church of Darkfallology? For shame. You might be denied entrance into heaven for not "believing".
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
So 7 years in development - they are going to have a 2 month beta. Doesnt bode well for a good release does it?
I cant see publishers wanting to put it out post christmas and miss the major sales period. So that gives them 8 weeks (10 if they start today) to get all the bugs, client issues, server & load issues resolved.
Good luck with that.
you are joking right, i dont think its like that mate
look at some of the most succesful rpg games, there isnt a lot of skill to it
They like their grinds - like most people who play games, you cant tell me you never just grinded in rpg games, what you fail to realise is that one of the major factors in an rpg game (even mmo) is that the story when all the quests are done there isnt much left to do other then grind.....its just part of the rpg mechanics.
(morrowind had grinding to level up) darkfall will also be heavy grind based since unless you make lots of friends who are always online sooner or later you will play by yourself and you will need your skills higher
They like their epic lootz. - who doesnt, you are telling me darkfall inst going to have an epic sword that everyone will want, dont think that just beacsue you have to aim your arrows and fireballs means you wont care which items you carry....you will like all games
They like being herded. - i dont understand what you mean by herded, if you mean they want to play the most popular game well then its not herding its common sense, why would you want to play a game thats not popular, one of the perks of wow is that it is a high class game, no matter how you look at it it has a great devs department and always will give good quality gameplay and connections....and a superb customer service. we all buy addidas for a reason
They don't want risk. - ??? what do you mean, risk as in dying and having too loose some skills or items...no they just want to play safe - trust me once you wasted 6 hours trying to get an item and then having someone who is stronger then you kill you and take it is really stressful
They don't want to think. - ?????? explain
They don't want actual skill to be the deciding factor in pvp. - not everone who plays mmo games play for pvp a lot play for social reasons.
- has anyone noticed the faults that will come with darkfall like the fact that the archer class or fps class is going to be the strongerst....think about it
level your speed and your archery geet lots of arrows and just shoot any warrior or mage and run away, shoot run away shoot.....since i cant just highlihght and use a spell like WoW iam going to have to run up to him and attack and since he will most likely be faster there is no way to actually stop a archer...same for mages...they will just shoot fireballs untill the melee class dies, imagine a group of 10 archers just shooting at you....what are you to do in that situation.
plus this game is just going to become an fps, all the melee players will be bunny hoping to save their lives, all the mages will use fireballs and slow or freeze spells...i say this because in pvp no matter wha tgame it is there is always "the best" way to win.....if its a game someone will find a best way to kll and everyone else will copy it.
darkfall sounds good but once you think about it its like all other games jsut a bit harder and stressful
sry for spelling very busy at the mo (Working)
because it sucked
You're kidding, right? Calling any game full pvp with player looting is like throwing raw meat to a pack of starving wolves...the gankers and griefers are giddy at the prospect. The problem is that run-of-the-mill players aren't going to have anything to do with the game so the population will be very small. The gankers won't have enough targets, will get bored and will run back to whatever game they are currently using to fulfill their anti-social needs.
you are joking right, i dont think its like that mate
look at some of the most succesful rpg games, there isnt a lot of skill to it
They like their grinds - like most people who play games, you cant tell me you never just grinded ...
They like their epic lootz. - who doesnt, ...
They like being herded. - i dont understand what you mean by herded, ...
They don't want risk. - ??? what do you mean, ...
They don't want to think. - ?????? explain
They don't want actual skill to be the deciding factor in pvp. - not everone who plays mmo games play for pvp a lot play for social reasons.
...
- has anyone noticed the faults that will come with darkfall like the fact that the archer class or fps class is going to be the strongerst....think about it
...
plus this game is just going to become an fps, all the melee players will be bunny hoping to save their lives, all the mages will use fireballs and slow or freeze spells...i say this because in pvp no matter wha tgame it is there is always "the best" way to win.....if its a game someone will find a best way to kll and everyone else will copy it.
...
darkfall sounds good but once you think about it its like all other games jsut a bit harder and stressful
...
sry for spelling very busy at the mo (Working)
Introduction to Forum Rules 101: If you read the original post, you would understand what he was addressing in his points. I know it was a long post - and I apologize if it was boring for you, but if you are really interested in being part of this discussion, you need to pay attention to the rest of the thread.
Unfortunately, you did follow a similar approach when you brought up your assumptions about ranged vs melee PvP balance issues, and tried to sell them to the forum readers as mere facts. Similar combat issues has been extensively discussed several times in Darkfall forums, and devs have brought many satisfying explanations in their updates. If you are concerned about an issue as such and not knowledgeble about it, before speculating and making up facts; please try to learn more about it, either by asking in a thread like this, or doing some research in the games website. Surely, there will be some of us who would like to help you out.
You're kidding, right? Calling any game full pvp with player looting is like throwing raw meat to a pack of starving wolves...the gankers and griefers are giddy at the prospect. The problem is that run-of-the-mill players aren't going to have anything to do with the game so the population will be very small. The gankers won't have enough targets, will get bored and will run back to whatever game they are currently using to fulfill their anti-social needs.
Wow, you're so scared from those gankers, I'll almost believe you've been ganked and been looted several times. I just don't think you've played a well designed sandbox, or played a full loot PvP game with alignment hits.
You don't even bother to find out if the devs have taken any precautions for the end results everyone has been assuming. We're all aware what the game is proposing for those players you keep mentioning, make no mistake, and how any game would turn out to be a chaos and anarchy if they are left alone to their chaotic ways or not penalized for their unruliness. However, the same dynamics of the real world applies to the sandbox games. Some of you keep ignoring that any successful sand box game will also look for possible solutions to anarchy / over-violence issues, not by separating worlds by creating a new non-PvP world (such as Trammel). Rather by giving more governing controls to players and clans like its featured in Darkfall. The system works in real life the same way it will work in Darkfall, that the more stable and consistent your realm, the more prosper and powerful your clan will end up. There will be many battles between clans for power struggles over resources - no doubt about it. Some cities will be destroyed and built again, some non-PvP players will be perished, and upsetted.
However wise diplomacy will pay more, strong alignments will be more rewarding, and the most powerful clans will succeed by acting clever, not by pissing off everyone and battling non-stop, but by making allies and only starting battles that they will most likely win - by taking minimum risks for maximum reward. Governing a strong clan will be a risk management issue in Darkfall, as it is in real life. In return, there will be relatively peaceful areas (most likely on the regions close to race capitals and newbie settlements) where the violence will be kept away from the beginner players - as every game needs a proper introduction to a new player until they are up in a certain stage of that learning curve.
Darkfall has a dynamic system where there is a solution for every possible problem - please look for your answers int he website, and stop assuming the worst.
Havent read most of the posts, but have to ask...Is Darkfall still planning on using their enforced First person combat mode?
The melee combat will be third person as it can be seen from the last video. I'm also hoping the ranged attacks will as well be third person, however there are some dev quotes stating that the ranged combat will require the spell caster or the archer to be in first person view. I would like to remind however that there are no classes int his game and that most PvP players will one way or another master a ranged/magical combat skill or two to counter different styles. It's just common sense.
All they promise is great and it sounds like it will be an exciting fun filled game, but it could turn out to be a bug filled pile of crap that has 1/2 of what they showing. ( lets hope not ) Its way to early to say this is or will be a great game.
So 7 years in development - they are going to have a 2 month beta. Doesnt bode well for a good release does it?
I cant see publishers wanting to put it out post christmas and miss the major sales period. So that gives them 8 weeks (10 if they start today) to get all the bugs, client issues, server & load issues resolved.
Good luck with that.
Well, in their defense, if you look through the archive of developer journals they have been playtesting the game since the beginning of 2008 using paid testers. they have stated their objective is not for players to encounter major bugs in the beta, but mainly to playtest the real game.
it's also worth noting that unlike other MMOs, DF has full creative control over their distributor/publisher, and given DF's "when it's done" motto, if it's not ready by christmas i think they'll push back the release.
The developers have said that pound-for-pound, melee is the strongest, so this is false. archers and casters have to have decent aim to be successful remember.
dodge? cast spells/fire arrows back at him? you know... tactics? if you are in a 1v10 of course you should lose if you attempt to fight them -- smart people would just run away.
in a 10v10, form a column with large shield users at the front and healers behind healing him and just charge them. you can cast while moving in Darkfall.
no bunnyhopping in DF because jumping uses stamina, and without stamina you can't attack or run.
i'm sure Darkfall will be 'harder', but a lot of us are sick of WOW-style easy-mode everything, static-spawned brain-dead auto-attacking mobs with no intelligence, PVP that means nothing, epic items that 90% of the server have, no unique or evolving story..... the list goes on and on.
bottom line: Darkfall offers a lot more than just PVP; you should read about the game before criticising IMO.
If you honestly think you'll see this kind of subtlety in a mmorpg anytime soon I have a bridge in Alaska to sell you...
Darkfall is going to be a gankfest...until there are no more targets and then the gankers will move on to the next game.
You're kidding, right? Calling any game full pvp with player looting is like throwing raw meat to a pack of starving wolves...the gankers and griefers are giddy at the prospect. The problem is that run-of-the-mill players aren't going to have anything to do with the game so the population will be very small. The gankers won't have enough targets, will get bored and will run back to whatever game they are currently using to fulfill their anti-social needs.
Wow, you're so scared from those gankers, I'll almost believe you've been ganked and been looted several times. I just don't think you've played a well designed sandbox, or played a full loot PvP game with alignment hits.
You don't even bother to find out if the devs have taken any precautions for the end results everyone has been assuming. We're all aware what the game is proposing for those players you keep mentioning, make no mistake, and how any game would turn out to be a chaos and anarchy if they are left alone to their chaotic ways or not penalized for their unruliness. However, the same dynamics of the real world applies to the sandbox games. Some of you keep ignoring that any successful sand box game will also look for possible solutions to anarchy / over-violence issues, not by separating worlds by creating a new non-PvP world (such as Trammel). Rather by giving more governing controls to players and clans like its featured in Darkfall. The system works in real life the same way it will work in Darkfall, that the more stable and consistent your realm, the more prosper and powerful your clan will end up. There will be many battles between clans for power struggles over resources - no doubt about it. Some cities will be destroyed and built again, some non-PvP players will be perished, and upsetted.
However wise diplomacy will pay more, strong alignments will be more rewarding, and the most powerful clans will succeed by acting clever, not by pissing off everyone and battling non-stop, but by making allies and only starting battles that they will most likely win - by taking minimum risks for maximum reward. Governing a strong clan will be a risk management issue in Darkfall, as it is in real life. In return, there will be relatively peaceful areas (most likely on the regions close to race capitals and newbie settlements) where the violence will be kept away from the beginner players - as every game needs a proper introduction to a new player until they are up in a certain stage of that learning curve.
Darkfall has a dynamic system where there is a solution for every possible problem - please look for your answers int he website, and stop assuming the worst.
Why don't the incredible DF supporters stop assuming the very BEST? Seriously, you cry havoc all day and tell the skeptics to just believe everything that's written on the Homepage while praising the game to the high heavens and believing that EVERYthing in the game will work out -PERFECTLY-.
It's a double-edged sword you know. No one knows if this game will deliver...nor does anyone know if it won't. Claiming one or the other as a fact at this point is foolish.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Wow, this thread surprised me. I got to the end and found out the OP was talking about Darkfall... heh. With that said, I will agree with most of what you said. However, I cannot see Darkfall suceeding in every aspect that they have been trying to sell for the past, what, 7 years? Maybe that's just the jaded MMO gamer inside of me, but it seems too good to be true, even after the videos have been released, a beta sign up, and a release date.
I think Darkfall will be a "wait and see" game for most of us. It seems too good to be true on paper, so we'll have to wait and see. In all honesty, I hope it's what it says it is, because that would be my perfect MMO. In reality though? I can't see it happening.
Darkfall = Vanguard 2.0
Oh, so many empty promises.
The melee combat will be third person as it can be seen from the last video. I'm also hoping the ranged attacks will as well be third person, however there are some dev quotes stating that the ranged combat will require the spell caster or the archer to be in first person view. I would like to remind however that there are no classes int his game and that most PvP players will one way or another master a ranged/magical combat skill or two to counter different styles. It's just common sense.
Thanks... No enforced first person view in combat is good news!
"Introduction to Forum Rules 101: If you read the original post, you would understand what he was addressing in his points. I know it was a long post - and I apologize if it was boring for you, but if you are really interested in being part of this discussion, you need to pay attention to the rest of the thread.
Unfortunately, you did follow a similar approach when you brought up your assumptions about ranged vs melee PvP balance issues, and tried to sell them to the forum readers as mere facts. Similar combat issues has been extensively discussed several times in Darkfall forums, and devs have brought many satisfying explanations in their updates. If you are concerned about an issue as such and not knowledgeble about it, before speculating and making up facts; please try to learn more about it, either by asking in a thread like this, or doing some research in the games website. Surely, there will be some of us who would like to help you out."
Introduction to hype 101, Adventurine is the king of such. Just because some dev says something does not make it true. Most of what Adventurine says we take with a grain of salt these days. They have lied so many times that even the wolf is laughing his butt off.
We will have to wait and see when the game comes out what features are included and what are not. Don't go holding your breath, Darkfall won't see the light of day in 2008, might be 2009 though. If you want evidence of such, even the publisher was a no show at the recent Leipzig show. If they had a game that was even close to playable it would have been shown there.