Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

KOTOR Online - Success Story

DominisiDominisi Age of Conan CorrespondentShow Low, AZPosts: 95Member

After reading all of everybodies rants and raves about this subject, without anybody knowing anything on how its going to be - I'm not exactly sure where to start, but nearly EVERYTHING I've read is negative, so its time for a positive outlook on this project.

SWG was one of the most successful MMORPGs prior to WoW. WoW for the past few years has ruined the gaming industry. Blizzard created a mammoth of a game, that was simple, fun, and had a shallow learning curve. This game exploded on the market, and everybody bought it. Prior to WoW if you had 100k subs to your game you had a very, very successful MMO. When WoW came out the gaming companies started making copies, or games similar to WoW in order to try and grab at some of the profits that they were pulling in.

The thing about the state of the industry now is. Nearly EVERYBODY is sick of WoW. Sick of the same game play. Thats why everybody stated that AoC was the DEATH of WoW, simply because it had a different play style. AoC flopped because they released it too soon, swaying in the direction of the fans cries to release the game.

And now the next shining light in the death of WoW is KotORO. Everybody wants their version of the game, however, lets look at the facts here.

A little known fact: Bioware developed the original skill system for SWG.

Biowares Neverwinter Nights series is the APEX of sandbox - you may call bullshit on this, but listen to the reasoning. NWN is a COMPLETE sandbox, no other game can you modify SO MUCH within the game. You can make your own maps, your own severs, characters, enemies, etc.

Now do I believe that Bioware will use the same exact approach they did to NWN to KOTOR? No. However, NWN is wildly successful - and if Bioware, and I have full confidence in this, can take the sandbox ideas in NWN and apply it to an MMO. We could have the greatest Hybrid of a Sandbox/Story driven game that the gaming industry has ever seen.

Couple that with the fact that Star Wars by default already has a larger fan base than WoW could have ever thought of having - some people will play it just because its Star Wars. Depending on the launch, how the game is made, and learning from past marketing experences, Bioware could effecivly push this game to 20 million people.

If you look at it from that point of view - it isn't so bad. And you can bet that Bioware / EA / LA want to de-throne WoW, and they are so stupid that they'll make a WoW copy - they can see how many have already failed.

image

«1

Comments

  • KabbaxKabbax AbsentPosts: 278Member

    I vote "pie".

     

    I don't know. My hopes and wishes are for the sandbox game. If its based on a D20 system with alignment based pvp all the better.

     

    "The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius."
    -Oscar Wilde

  • Rogue420Rogue420 Orono, MEPosts: 296Member

    YIPEE! ANOTHER KOTOR THREAD! The hype on this forum about KOTOR makes it sound like the true WoW killer.WRONG!

    image

    Pats are gonna go 19-0 2008-2009 season

  • DominisiDominisi Age of Conan Correspondent Show Low, AZPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by Rogue420


    YIPEE! ANOTHER KOTOR THREAD! The hype on this forum about KOTOR makes it sound like the true WoW killer.WRONG!



     

    Thank you for making a constructive post. If I posted like you I'd have 10,000 posts by now.

    image

  • BaronJuJuBaronJuJu APO, NYPosts: 1,832Member
    Originally posted by Dominisi


    SWG was one of the most successful MMORPGs prior to WoW.



     

    What the hell version of SWG pre-CU did you play? The game open to mediocre reviews and was bug ridden from day 1.

    KOTORO's (or whatever they decide to call it, if thats what the MMO is) success will be determined on what kind of game they create and how the intended audience receives it....nothing else.

    "If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"

  • Rogue420Rogue420 Orono, MEPosts: 296Member

    Unless the game has FFAPVP, I wont even bother bookmarking it.

    image

    Pats are gonna go 19-0 2008-2009 season

  • chewbacca_47chewbacca_47 Tacoma, WAPosts: 3Member

    God, I am frothing at the  official announcement of this game. 

  • daarcodaarco GavlePosts: 4,497Member

    I agree with the OP.

    We need to see some major changes to the MMO development attitude, or else noone will care about MMOs in two years into the future.

  • DominisiDominisi Age of Conan Correspondent Show Low, AZPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by BaronJuJu

    Originally posted by Dominisi


    SWG was one of the most successful MMORPGs prior to WoW.



     

    What the hell version of SWG pre-CU did you play? The game open to mediocre reviews and was bug ridden from day 1.

    KOTORO's (or whatever they decide to call it, if thats what the MMO is) success will be determined on what kind of game they create and how the intended audience receives it....nothing else.

     

    YES the game was bug ridden since day 1, HOWEVER in terms of active subscriptions? in 2004 I belive it was either the 2nd or 3rd most popular MMO next to everquest.

    image

  • NarsheNarshe Montreal, QCPosts: 563Member
    Originally posted by Dominisi


    Biowares Neverwinter Nights series is the APEX of sandbox - you may call bullshit on this, but listen to the reasoning. NWN is a COMPLETE sandbox, no other game can you modify SO MUCH within the game. You can make your own maps, your own severs, characters, enemies, etc.

     

    I disagree. I don't think of NWN as a sandbox at all, the single player campaigns are about as linear as every other story driven RPG. The designer tools they provide to create your own worlds are amazing, but it isn't connected to the original game. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by implementing this in an MMO. Unless you're talking about something like an interactive 'holodeck' type thing where players are given design tools within the game for social entertainment.. but even that would seem like a waste of resources.

    Waiting for Fallen Earth, World of Darkness, Old Republic, FFXIV

  • metalhead980metalhead980 Queens, NYPosts: 2,658Member

    Why are we talking about Kotor?

    The game isnt totally announced yet!!!

    Once it is we wont see it for 3-5 years anyway.

    PLaying: EvE, Ryzom

    Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum

  • BaronJuJuBaronJuJu APO, NYPosts: 1,832Member
    Originally posted by Narshe

    Originally posted by Dominisi


    Biowares Neverwinter Nights series is the APEX of sandbox - you may call bullshit on this, but listen to the reasoning. NWN is a COMPLETE sandbox, no other game can you modify SO MUCH within the game. You can make your own maps, your own severs, characters, enemies, etc.

     

    I disagree. I don't think of NWN as a sandbox at all, the single player campaigns are about as linear as every other story driven RPG. 



     

    I agree...NWN was a story on rails. The only way to deviate was to jump into player created worlds.

    "If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTPosts: 2,837Member Uncommon

    A little known fact: Bioware developed the original skill system for SWG.

    I don't believe you should post something like this without a source to back it up.  I've never head this before and I believe it is not true as the SWG skill system was developed by the creator of UO I believe.

  • BaronJuJuBaronJuJu APO, NYPosts: 1,832Member
    Originally posted by Flyte27


    A little known fact: Bioware developed the original skill system for SWG.
    I don't believe you should post something like this without a source to back it up.  I've never head this before and I believe it is not true as the SWG skill system was developed by the creator of UO I believe.



     

    Raph Koster and his team when he was employed at SOE designed the skill system, not Bioware.

    "If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"

  • DominisiDominisi Age of Conan Correspondent Show Low, AZPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by Narshe

    Originally posted by Dominisi


    Biowares Neverwinter Nights series is the APEX of sandbox - you may call bullshit on this, but listen to the reasoning. NWN is a COMPLETE sandbox, no other game can you modify SO MUCH within the game. You can make your own maps, your own severs, characters, enemies, etc.

     

    I disagree. I don't think of NWN as a sandbox at all, the single player campaigns are about as linear as every other story driven RPG. The designer tools they provide to create your own worlds are amazing, but it isn't connected to the original game. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by implementing this in an MMO. Unless you're talking about something like an interactive 'holodeck' type thing where players are given design tools within the game for social entertainment.. but even that would seem like a waste of resources.

     

    Think about it this way, instead of using the tools to manipulate your own server , evolving them in a way that they can be used to manipulate the massive sever, e.g. building buildings, making mines in mountains/asteroids, of course not make a sort of holo, but allowing the players to change the galaxy the way they want it. Of course also adding boundaries so it does not completly screw things up, but nontheless making the world changeable.

     

     

    image

  • DominisiDominisi Age of Conan Correspondent Show Low, AZPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by BaronJuJu

    Originally posted by Flyte27


    A little known fact: Bioware developed the original skill system for SWG.
    I don't believe you should post something like this without a source to back it up.  I've never head this before and I believe it is not true as the SWG skill system was developed by the creator of UO I believe.



     

    Raph Koster and his team when he was employed at SOE designed the skill system, not Bioware.

     

    I'm currently trying to dig up where I read it at, but the skill system derived from a developer who worked at bioware.  I'll do a bit more digging and find it though.

    image

  • ianubisiianubisi Morgan Hill, CAPosts: 4,201Member

    Hype is anti-fun.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Greenwich, CTPosts: 2,837Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dominisi

    Originally posted by BaronJuJu

    Originally posted by Flyte27


    A little known fact: Bioware developed the original skill system for SWG.
    I don't believe you should post something like this without a source to back it up.  I've never head this before and I believe it is not true as the SWG skill system was developed by the creator of UO I believe.



     

    Raph Koster and his team when he was employed at SOE designed the skill system, not Bioware.

     

    I'm currently trying to dig up where I read it at, but the skill system derived from a developer who worked at bioware.  I'll do a bit more digging and find it though.

    Even if thats true one employee at Bioware doesn't mean a whole lot.  Especially one employee that you say doesn't work there anymore.  Bioware is a company that is made up of many different people.

     

  • ThradarThradar Minas Tirith, NVPosts: 949Member
    Originally posted by daarco


    I agree with the OP.
    We need to see some major changes to the MMO development attitude, or else noone will care about MMOs in two years into the future.

     

    WoW created a new paradigm for MMOs.  Don't expect that to go away because it makes $$$$$$$$$$$...like McDonalds.

    There's only a handful of IPs out there that could potentially create a new paradigm that can draw a huge crowd.  And Star Wars is one of them.  But I argue that any new MMO paradigm that draws in massive amounts of people will be no more appealing to MMOs players that want something different than WoW is now.  It will just be switching from a McDonald's to Burger King menu.

    Serious MMO fans (those who try lots of different games, not just live their life in WoW) should probably just get used to enjoying those niche games that don't have the population that WoW has, but has the elements that it lacks.

  • DominisiDominisi Age of Conan Correspondent Show Low, AZPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by Thradar

    Originally posted by daarco


    I agree with the OP.
    We need to see some major changes to the MMO development attitude, or else noone will care about MMOs in two years into the future.

     

    WoW created a new paradigm for MMOs.  Don't expect that to go away because it makes $$$$$$$$$$$...like McDonalds.

    There's only a handful of IPs out there that could potentially create a new paradigm that can draw a huge crowd.  And Star Wars is one of them.  But I argue that any new MMO paradigm that draws in massive amounts of people will be no more appealing to MMOs players that want something different than WoW is now.  It will just be switching from a McDonald's to Burger King menu.

    Serious MMO fans (those who try lots of different games, not just live their life in WoW) should probably just get used to enjoying those niche games that don't have the population that WoW has, but has the elements that it lacks.



     

    First of all, your analogy of the McDonalds / BK menu sucks, they are both fast food. Would be good if you were describing a WoW clone.

    Second, I don't doubt the innovativeness of LA and Bioware. Hopefully they can develop some sort of game that can combine Exploration, Story, Building and Killing all into one inclusive MMO. And the thing about the Star Wars IP is the fact that it HAS that much potential. Bioware isn't limited to One contry, one world, not even one solar system. There is an entire galaxy that players could explore. Plus if you are any kind of starwars fan that goes beyond just the movies, if  you read the books and play the KOTOR games you realize that the KOTOR period was FULL of Empires and wars, if bioware lives up to its reputation I see a VERY well done hybrid of Killing exporing building and story.

    image

  • BdonedgeBdonedge Newport News, VAPosts: 59Member

    First off, I don't understand why everyone wants a game that is a "WoW killer".

    Do you really want that many people playing the same game as you?

    1 Million people, is a huge number and is a great success for an MMO. They can evenly spread out the people over 20 servers (depending how big the game is) and it be the best MMO ever made in my opinion.

    But 20 Million? At that number you have to dumb everything down so everyone is happy.

     

     

    All of these people talk like they want a new game to be a WoW killer as if the people will come from WoW to said game...

    Really?

    Why in gods name would I want 13 year olds running around whining the game is "to hard" because everything isn't spelled out for them like it is in WoW?

    Even better, why would I want the unskilled idiots to come over from WoW in the first place?

    If anything, I want this to bring a fan base from people who know something about the MMO industry as well as how MMOs work, not some braindead half-assed game like World of Warcraft.

     

    People need to start looking at shit as their own game, NOT A FUCKING WOW KILLER. We don't need a WoW killer, if anything that game can filter out all the idiots who think its a real MMO. Keep them over there.

  • DominisiDominisi Age of Conan Correspondent Show Low, AZPosts: 95Member

    Its not about having 20 million players, that was just a number I threw out there as an estimate to the player base that a Star Wars game could pull in. And of that 20 million it would be older players than the WoW base. Simply because Star Wars is OLDER than Warcraft.

    And the reason everybody is hoping for a WoW killer is because they are sick of the same gameplay, not because we like 13 year olds running rampant on a server. If we HAVE a complicated sand box game, older more mature audiences with patience will play them, instead of the inmature 13 year old who wants instant gratification.

    image

  • SoaraSoara Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 80Member

    I voted Agree!

    I wish they made it on a better time period in the Star Wars history :(

    That's okay, Bioware's definately got the chops to make a good, NEW, MMO

    Heck, the only reason why I don't play SWG is because it isn't a NEW engine. I couldn't care less about the NGE

  • _Shadowmage_Shadowmage MelbournePosts: 1,459Member


    Originally posted by Dominisi
    Its not about having 20 million players, that was just a number I threw out there as an estimate to the player base that a Star Wars game could pull in. And of that 20 million it would be older players than the WoW base. Simply because Star Wars is OLDER than Warcraft.
    And the reason everybody is hoping for a WoW killer is because they are sick of the same gameplay, not because we like 13 year olds running rampant on a server. If we HAVE a complicated sand box game, older more mature audiences with patience will play them, instead of the inmature 13 year old who wants instant gratification.

    I think you are wrong on the age of star wars fans. My 6 year old is a bigger SW fan than I am - and I am a big fan.

    As for Sandbox - I think you need to define what you really mean by sandbox. You seem to be talking about the ability to change the world. Other people refer to a class less - skill based system. NWN based on D&D was so class based it made the game hard to get into.

    You could have a sandbox game, but why would any company make a complicated sandbox game that restricts the potential audience. At the end of the day - EA/Bioware make games to make money. So if you look at it from the money making perspective - a game that restricts the number of people who will want to play is stupid.

    Bioware are using the HeroEngine to make the game, so I am hoping its some sort of hybrid class / skill based system. With lots of different races, planets, story lines.

  • admriker4admriker4 boise, IDPosts: 1,070Member
    Originally posted by metalhead980


    Why are we talking about Kotor?
    The game isnt totally announced yet!!!
    Once it is we wont see it for 3-5 years anyway.



     

    not true

    KOTOR started around Feb 2006 so its over halfway complete. Expect a release around 2010

  • admriker4admriker4 boise, IDPosts: 1,070Member

    fyi KOTOR wont be a sandbox MMO

    Read the devs comments over at bioware. All they talk about is how great WoW is. The KOTOR rpg wasnt a sandbox game, it was extremely linear and controlled.

    KOTOR will be a linear quest driven MMO I guarantee it

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.