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Funcom deals coup-de-grace to MMORPG's

LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,375Member Rare

Over 4 years ago Blizzard laughed in the face of mmorpg player , and said : MMO player is not interested in complexity , not in virtual world simulation , nor in sandbox gameplay. MMO player wants to be spoon fed with premade choices , premade classes , and simplistic but FUN gameplay....You dont believe us? Look at our subscription numbers.

WOW went on and became a hallmark , not only of MMO success , but PC game success....



4 years have indeed passed , and proven Blizzard was right.

Developers or utterly failed to make any complex MMO. It seemed that what was possible before (AC,UO,SWG) todays coders just can not do anymore....

Or companies just went and made singleplayer online rpgs with multiplay element (Guildwars , DDO)



SWG was butchered to appeal more to mass market - and so one of the last true MMO was killed.

Years passed....

Vanguard came as the last hope for MMORPG player. Something we dreamed of....turned out to be a scam of drug addict developer



Daddy of MMO genre Richard Garriot  - goes and makes instanced half baked shooter MMO...



and Turbine makes copy of WOW with LOTR skin...





MMORPG genre is bleeding , dying on the ground....

And there goes Funcom with AOC -

It is a FUN game. But everything that MMO stands for is removed....It is just a collection of small areas that can barely hold 50 players in same instance - connected with loading screens. Player interaction is brought to the bare minimum. Exploration is removed.Crafting is a funny minigame. Trading is pointless.

It is still fun game. But it is not MMO. It is not Massive....

But FUNCOM succeds! It is a bestseller !

 

.........

So what are developer companies to do now ? If there was ever doubt , now it is clear

Massive = Failure

Mini Online RPG = Success

 

-------

 

R.I.P Massive

 

 

 

 

 



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Comments

  • DistilerDistiler BarcelonaPosts: 416Member

    /amen

    It's the sad state of mmos, just videogames, not simulators anymore :(

    At least we have EvE Online

  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,375Member Rare

     

    Originally posted by Distiler



    At least we have EvE Online

     

     

    True. EVE is exactly what MMOs 2008 should be. And luckily for us all , it is successful.

    If anything exists that will persuade developers that Massive Simulation Sandbox concept still works , and that people actually want to play it.

    Its EVE ...



  • ladyattisladyattis Wichita, KSPosts: 1,273Member

    Never turn away from the Uni-Verse.


    -- Brede

  • tvalentinetvalentine San Clemente, CAPosts: 4,216Member

    regarding the 50 players per instance statement .... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/181978 

    GG

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • EvasiaEvasia rotterdamPosts: 2,827Member
    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Over 4 years ago Blizzard laughed in the face of mmorpg player , and said : MMO player is not interested in complexity , not in virtual world simulation , nor in sandbox gameplay. MMO player wants to be spoon fed with premade choices , premade classes , and simplistic but FUN gameplay....You dont believe us? Look at our subscription numbers.
    WOW went on and became a hallmark , not only of MMO success , but PC game success....


    4 years have indeed passed , and proven Blizzard was right.
    Developers or utterly failed to make any complex MMO. It seemed that what was possible before (AC,UO,SWG) todays coders just can not do anymore....
    Or companies just went and made singleplayer online rpgs with multiplay element (Guildwars , DDO)



    SWG was butchered to appeal more to mass market - and so one of the last true MMO was killed.
    Years passed....
    Vanguard came as the last hope for MMORPG player. Something we dreamed of....turned out to be a scam of drug addict developer



    Daddy of MMO genre Richard Garriot  - goes and makes instanced half baked shooter MMO...



    and Turbine makes copy of WOW with LOTR skin...





    MMORPG genre is bleeding , dying on the ground....
    And there goes Funcom with AOC -
    It is a FUN game. But everything that MMO stands for is removed....It is just a collection of small areas that can barely hold 50 players in same instance - connected with loading screens. Player interaction is brought to the bare minimum. Exploration is removed.Crafting is a funny minigame. Trading is pointless.
    It is still fun game. But it is not MMO. It is not Massive....
    But FUNCOM succeds! It is a bestseller !
     
    .........
    So what are developer companies to do now ? If there was ever doubt , now it is clear
    Massive = Failure
    Mini Online RPG = Success
     
    -------
     
    R.I.P Massive
     
     
     
     
     



    Up untill now AoC is even more dumb down massive maybe it hold 50 peeps a instance(map) but all dungeon(cant call dungeon instance anymore or we get confused becouse everything is instanced in AoC) are solo, after 40 i dont know yet, but at least in other mmorpgs you cant solo dungeons AoC you can lol.

    Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
    In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.

  • LuxthorLuxthor ZagrebPosts: 171Member
    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    MMORPG genre is bleeding , dying on the ground....


    .........
    So what are developer companies to do now ? If there was ever doubt , now it is clear
    Massive = Failure
    Mini Online RPG = Success
     -------
     
    R.I.P Massive
     
     
     
     

    Cmon, is not that bad, era of real MMO still need to begin. There are lots of projects out there we don't even know about, it's not time for panic.

    ---
    "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

  • EvasiaEvasia rotterdamPosts: 2,827Member

    Originally posted by Luxthor

    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    MMORPG genre is bleeding , dying on the ground....


    .........
    So what are developer companies to do now ? If there was ever doubt , now it is clear
    Massive = Failure
    Mini Online RPG = Success
     -------
     
    R.I.P Massive
     
     
     
     

    Cmon, is not that bad, era of real MMO still need to begin. There are lots of projects out there we don't even know about, it's not time for panic.

    many times in history have proven masse win over the minority even when maybe minority are right.

    Its sad but im affraid this will also be case with mmo's.

    Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
    In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied -, WAPosts: 2,165Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distiler


    /amen
    It's the sad state of mmos, just videogames, not simulators anymore :(
    At least we have EvE Online

    You half to go through a load screen in EVE also, and although you can go anywhere, just about "anywhere is nowhere" unless you follow routes... Also I can recall EQ1 had plenty of load screens, I dont think MMOs are becoming less free, less explorative, I think people are getting Pickier WHILE getting border of MMO's because in fact, they arent as umm Uncommon, i mean there has to be at least 5+ bigname developers making MMOs every year and tons of noname asian mmo's also. Lets face it, an MMO is NOT meant to be a simulator. Eve is still a good game so keep playin that, i couldnt stay with it after i discoved the 50th load zone with the exact same nebula/space cloud design. /repast zone, /mix content, /add differen moons and suns.

  • busdriverbusdriver nyPosts: 859Member

    Themepark games are what big companies are focusing on, easy to code, easy to control and easy to sell. And they all suck.

    For a real MMORPG, start looking for independent developers. That's where it's at.

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied -, WAPosts: 2,165Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Evasia

    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Over 4 years ago Blizzard laughed in the face of mmorpg player , and said : MMO player is not interested in complexity , not in virtual world simulation , nor in sandbox gameplay. MMO player wants to be spoon fed with premade choices , premade classes , and simplistic but FUN gameplay....You dont believe us? Look at our subscription numbers.
    WOW went on and became a hallmark , not only of MMO success , but PC game success....


    4 years have indeed passed , and proven Blizzard was right.
    Developers or utterly failed to make any complex MMO. It seemed that what was possible before (AC,UO,SWG) todays coders just can not do anymore....
    Or companies just went and made singleplayer online rpgs with multiplay element (Guildwars , DDO)



    SWG was butchered to appeal more to mass market - and so one of the last true MMO was killed.
    Years passed....
    Vanguard came as the last hope for MMORPG player. Something we dreamed of....turned out to be a scam of drug addict developer



    Daddy of MMO genre Richard Garriot  - goes and makes instanced half baked shooter MMO...



    and Turbine makes copy of WOW with LOTR skin...





    MMORPG genre is bleeding , dying on the ground....
    And there goes Funcom with AOC -
    It is a FUN game. But everything that MMO stands for is removed....It is just a collection of small areas that can barely hold 50 players in same instance - connected with loading screens. Player interaction is brought to the bare minimum. Exploration is removed.Crafting is a funny minigame. Trading is pointless.
    It is still fun game. But it is not MMO. It is not Massive....
    But FUNCOM succeds! It is a bestseller !
     
    .........
    So what are developer companies to do now ? If there was ever doubt , now it is clear
    Massive = Failure
    Mini Online RPG = Success
     
    -------
     
    R.I.P Massive
     
     
     
     
     



    Up untill now AoC is even more dumb down massive maybe it hold 50 peeps a instance(map) but all dungeon(cant call dungeon instance anymore or we get confused becouse everything is instanced in AoC) are solo, after 40 i dont know yet, but at least in other mmorpgs you cant solo dungeons AoC you can lol.

    Its funny because I bet not a single person on this thread has walked through even half of AOC. Small? They where merely not making it too large... Sure they could have made it just as large and uninstanced as vanguard, and guess what, it would have sucked, AOC would have lagged through the roof, servers would be down, bugs would fry your brains, Wait.... This is starting to sound like what happend in VANGUARD, which we all admit did not succeed? So the people on this forum want a simulator/explorative HUGE open world with too few instances and no loads? Welcome to (Vanguard saga of heroes) theres your dream MMO. Im not defending AOC but its freakin huge. Without loadsscreens, many peoples computers would be in the ER right now.

  • LuxthorLuxthor ZagrebPosts: 171Member
    Originally posted by Evasia


     
    Originally posted by Luxthor

    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    MMORPG genre is bleeding , dying on the ground....


    .........
    So what are developer companies to do now ? If there was ever doubt , now it is clear
    Massive = Failure
    Mini Online RPG = Success
     -------
     
    R.I.P Massive
     
     
     
     

    Cmon, is not that bad, era of real MMO still need to begin. There are lots of projects out there we don't even know about, it's not time for panic.

    many times in history have proven masse win over the minority even when maybe minority are right.

     

    Its sad but im affraid this will also be case with mmo's.

    Lets leave masses alone they truly need popcorn mmos like AOC for relaxation and brainless fun, we don't need that type of players, we need mmo hobbyists because you cant play MMO in other way, at least not effective enough.

    ---
    "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

  • IcoGamesIcoGames Boston, MAPosts: 2,360Member

    Whether an MMO is a themepark or a sandbox is immaterial to success; it's stability and polish. Players don't have the patience to wait for Potential(tm) to come to fruition. That was the downfall of both Vanguard and SWG, both of which had every chance to succeed.

    Ico
    Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.

  • EvasiaEvasia rotterdamPosts: 2,827Member

    Originally posted by denshing

    Originally posted by Evasia

    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Over 4 years ago Blizzard laughed in the face of mmorpg player , and said : MMO player is not interested in complexity , not in virtual world simulation , nor in sandbox gameplay. MMO player wants to be spoon fed with premade choices , premade classes , and simplistic but FUN gameplay....You dont believe us? Look at our subscription numbers.
    WOW went on and became a hallmark , not only of MMO success , but PC game success....


    4 years have indeed passed , and proven Blizzard was right.
    Developers or utterly failed to make any complex MMO. It seemed that what was possible before (AC,UO,SWG) todays coders just can not do anymore....
    Or companies just went and made singleplayer online rpgs with multiplay element (Guildwars , DDO)



    SWG was butchered to appeal more to mass market - and so one of the last true MMO was killed.
    Years passed....
    Vanguard came as the last hope for MMORPG player. Something we dreamed of....turned out to be a scam of drug addict developer



    Daddy of MMO genre Richard Garriot  - goes and makes instanced half baked shooter MMO...



    and Turbine makes copy of WOW with LOTR skin...





    MMORPG genre is bleeding , dying on the ground....
    And there goes Funcom with AOC -
    It is a FUN game. But everything that MMO stands for is removed....It is just a collection of small areas that can barely hold 50 players in same instance - connected with loading screens. Player interaction is brought to the bare minimum. Exploration is removed.Crafting is a funny minigame. Trading is pointless.
    It is still fun game. But it is not MMO. It is not Massive....
    But FUNCOM succeds! It is a bestseller !
     
    .........
    So what are developer companies to do now ? If there was ever doubt , now it is clear
    Massive = Failure
    Mini Online RPG = Success
     
    -------
     
    R.I.P Massive
     
     
     
     
     



    Up untill now AoC is even more dumb down massive maybe it hold 50 peeps a instance(map) but all dungeon(cant call dungeon instance anymore or we get confused becouse everything is instanced in AoC) are solo, after 40 i dont know yet, but at least in other mmorpgs you cant solo dungeons AoC you can lol.

    Its funny because I bet not a single person on this thread has walked through even half of AOC. Small? They where merely not making it too large... Sure they could have made it just as large and uninstanced as vanguard, and guess what, it would have sucked, AOC would have lagged through the roof, servers would be down, bugs would fry your brains, Wait.... This is starting to sound like what happend in VANGUARD, which we all admit did not succeed? So the people on this forum want a simulator/explorative HUGE open world with too few instances and no loads? Welcome to (Vanguard saga of heroes) theres your dream MMO. Im not defending AOC but its freakin huge. Without loadsscreens, many peoples computers would be in the ER right now.

    as i said before in my reply my opinion is based up untill lvl40 beyond i dont know.

    AoC small and just a solo game with maps that are not very huge and easy to travel becouse game will show you the way, its also desigend with consoles in mind not for pc players.

    Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
    In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.

  • CetraCetra SingaporePosts: 355Member Uncommon

    lol this game a success? Judging on initial sales yes. But Funcom earned it through tight NDA and the open beta 13levels cap. Not because the game is truly good. Many bought the game because of the hype and promised features, only to realise everything is either not in the game or broken.

    Lets see if AoC is truly a success after the free 30days are up.

     

  • dikkydikky lakak, ABPosts: 261Member Common

    Originally posted by IcoGames


    Whether an MMO is a themepark or a sandbox is immaterial to success; it's stability and polish. Players don't have the patience to wait for Potential(tm) to come to fruition. That was the downfall of both Vanguard and SWG, both of which had every chance to succeed.
     
    I'd say SWG was succeeding, it had over a 1/4 million subscribers even though the game was riddled with bugs, was horribly unbalanced, new content came only a couple times and a year, and the bugs were rarely fixed.

    Imagine what that number would have been if those issues were addressed.

  • IcoGamesIcoGames Boston, MAPosts: 2,360Member


    Originally posted by teiohFromSWG I'd say SWG was succeeding, it had over a 1/4 million subscribers even though the game was riddled with bugs, was horribly unbalanced, new content came only a couple times and a year, and the bugs were rarely fixed.
    Imagine what that number would have been if those issues were addressed.

    Hey you wouldn't have been on the Kettemoor server?

    I totally agree, SOE/LA had every chance to make SWG THE premier title of the genre. As I've always said: great concept, horrible implementation. Oddly enough, I feel SOE/LA could still do some damage with regression servers.

    The whole argument of Themepark v. Sandbox is flawed. If studios would concentrate on releasing a semi-polished game, there would be more sandbox-type MMOs. Imo, it just happens that studios like Blizzard, Turbine, and Funcom made the investment. Even EA is delaying WAR based on beta feedback (yeah, I feinted too when I read that).

    Ico
    Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.

  • BaselineBaseline Sloan, NYPosts: 503Member

    I wouldn't call AOC a success just yet.

    Wait to see what the retention numbers are after the first month.

    If this game has over a million active subs a few months in, then maybe. That's what LOTRO achieved (which I am not a fan of, btw).

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,592Member Uncommon

    A LOT of people bought AoC with the hope it would be the game they were looking for.  I think most of them will soon find out how shallow the game is.  Within 3 months they will take a real hit on subscribers once people find out how content empty it is, by the War will be out and they will really take a hit.  They will be lucky to have 200k players by the fall.

    So yes I am mightily disappointed in Funcom.  They had a chance to do something great with the genre and failed miserably.

    Hope still lies on the horizon though.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,277Member Uncommon

     

    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    A LOT of people bought AoC with the hope it would be the game they were looking for.  I think most of them will soon find out how shallow the game is.  Within 3 months they will take a real hit on subscribers once people find out how content empty it is, by the War will be out and they will really take a hit.  They will be lucky to have 200k players by the fall.
    So yes I am mightily disappointed in Funcom.  They had a chance to do something great with the genre and failed miserably.
    Hope still lies on the horizon though.



    Content empty? What the hell game are you playing? Ok let me guess you played all through beta, and when the game went live you rushed to 80 not bothering to explore, do side quests, or even read quests, Just went for the most exp as fast as you could get 24/7 so you could be the first to the top of the heap? Congrats, sorry its not the game thats broken more like it sounds like it is you. Theres content I'm betting its just you ignored most of it in your mad rush to 80 now your 80 and their aren't that many people your level to battle against build cities with etc. Is it the games fault or is it your own?

     

      War will be no different when you play it the same way I expect we'll see you here whining again when its out. No game has infinite content and any player that trys hard enough will tear through any but the most insane time sink games. In cases like that I don't curse the game I just pity the player that thinks reaching max level the fastest is the most important goal.

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon

    I don't get what people see in WoW.  I could never find the appeal of that game, or "the hook."

    To me, any hope in the genre died when Seed died.  It showed me that a small game with modcest expectations can't seem to get off the ground.  With Ryzom on death's door, it does not look good.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,912Member Uncommon

    Well the problem is, if I may try to analyze it, twofold.

    First, the player base of MMOs has drastically changed. I vividly recall the time UO and EQ were new, and at that time I already had many years of computer gaming, but everything I saw and heard was driving me away. I had zero wish for hours of camping, grind, death x 1000 and whatever gruesome things the "good old days" had. Those people who DID play MMOs where a very "elitist" group of people EVEN among gamers, because for 90% of the normal gamer, single player games offered apparently much greater entertainment back then. MMORPGs were something for the few among the few, a very peculiar and special audience. But this changed. Today many gamers play or played MMOs, and also much more social groups play them, kids, mothers, office workers, EVERYONE, and those bring in VERY different lifestyles and time schedules and expectations than those who played MMOs in UO and EQ1.

    A teenger playing EQ1 in the old days or UO had massive time, and is in a stage of age where you need to proof yourself against borders, where you typically test out limits, you are full of self-esteem and approach life with a restlessness and habit which was relfected in the typical harshness and complexity of the games. Today the average MMO player is older, has less time and is in an age level where he feels much less drive to "prove himself" anymore.



    Second, the fashion of everything changes, and so the fashion of MMOs. I think the core of what we have lost with the new MMOs, and what I too bemoan, in the approach of a "world simulation", where you are not send down one narrowed path of quest-storyline, but where you are given the freedom to explore and do many things. On the other hand, games like SWG did and do lack "coherence". I played SWG about 3 years, and yes I recall we needed no quests or guidance to have fun. But I also recall after 2 years I felt... aimless. I started to feel the desire to want more, to want stories being told, adventure stories like in those pen and paper D&D evenings with my friends. I dont wanted to wander aimless any longer, and thats I guess what happened to a lot of people. The depths of the aimless, quesless worlds were measured out, and people wanted more, they wanted maps and guides, the wanted no longer to print our internet walkthroughs to find their goals, because simply they werent students anymore and just lacked the time.

    EQ2 is STILL in a very old fashioned way. I just recently acknowledged that, when I had a quest, simply stating "find an Efreeti to talk to in Lavastorm".. End of the line. I thought WTH? SOME Efreeti ANYWHERE in Lavastorm? Sure, I too found the AoC way to directly point to the goal silly, since it takes out the exploration. But on the other hand I too changed. I know how I searched for quest goals in SWG for DAYS AND WEEKS. Anyone maybe recalls "Mark of the Hero", and I know my guildmates and me looked for that friggin boar on our speeders for over a week. I enjoyed that back then. But today, when I dont know where to seek, and am lost for more than 15 minutes I get angry. I changed, my expectations changed, and I guess many players did.

    What we cant and wont see is the same way of world simulation as once, since it was tbh relatively primitive. Devs didnt have to care a lot about details, because WE were much less demanding. But we cant go back to the simplicity we knew, because WE ALL are spoilt. It is as we cant go back to live in the simplicity of our forefathers, we are spoilt by electricity, computers, mobile phones and aircondition. It is how we are. But what we CAN do, is make better NEW world simulations, but you must understand that due to the changes, that is A HELL more difficult now than once, when the expectations and demands were CONSIDERABLY less.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,277Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Evasia




    Up untill now AoC is even more dumb down massive maybe it hold 50 peeps a instance(map) but all dungeon(cant call dungeon instance anymore or we get confused becouse everything is instanced in AoC) are solo, after 40 i dont know yet, but at least in other mmorpgs you cant solo dungeons AoC you can lol.

       Really? Do tell me which dungeon you solo'd on epic and post pics or it didn't happen? What you say you haven't ever done any instances in epic mode? Ah thought so, now go home .

  • x_rast_xx_rast_x Pittsburg, KSPosts: 745Member

    Unlike most MMOs (all that I've tried actually) that start out about as good as they're going to get and then steadily go downhill, Eve is designed for the long haul and just keeps getting better and better.  I think the dev's general attitude of deliberately appealing to a niche that will be loyal instead of the mass market has a lot to do with it.

    Despite being one of the oldest games out there it's still worth it for newbies to join up, if you're looking for a sandbox in space.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,277Member Uncommon

     

    Originally posted by Evasia


     
    Originally posted by Luxthor


    Cmon, is not that bad, era of real MMO still need to begin. There are lots of projects out there we don't even know about, it's not time for panic.
    many times in history have proven masse win over the minority even when maybe minority are right.

     

    Its sad but im affraid this will also be case with mmo's.



      What a very odd and elitist thing to say.  You admit your a minority but yet you seem to state you are right, and that the majority is wrong to have their own opinions and enjoy the games they like. ie only games you enjoy and approve of are acceptable? There is surely a game you enjoy playing. So why must all games be made just for you and your minority? Who made you the ultimate authority on whats right in a MMO? Please do tell me who made you and the others like you here Gods to pass such judgements for everyone else?

     

     

  • JupstoJupsto englandPosts: 2,074Member Uncommon

    wow has loading screens. I swear no one here but myself realises this.

    My blog: image

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