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Why Potbs may not succeed as a full priced game

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  • GyrusGyrus Member UncommonPosts: 2,413

    Originally posted by AgtSmith


    Word on the site today is that they got a new Producer - REV has left to pursue a job with MS (xBox Live Arcade team).  I cannot help but wonder if this doesn't indicate a change in direction.  REV was allways passionate about alot of the ideas that are most troubled now (prominence of the economy, combat loss with little reward, even pirates being part of RvR when they are so gimped VS the nationals) or at least seemingly so.  It would explain the 3 week silence from FLS if there was a power or vision struggle going on until just recently.  Suddenly they start talking again and then we here Rev is leaving.  Don't misunderstand, Rev was a solid good guy - I am sure it was nothing nasty but even Rusty now is admitting a big problem with PvP risk VS reward and REV never bought us pointing that out in beta.
    REALLY? 8-|

    I would have thought the design team might be first to go - not that I think they do bad work - just that many elements seemed more suited to a single player rather than a MMO game.

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • OrphesOrphes Member UncommonPosts: 3,039

    Originally posted by xersent


    does anyone have the website links for the free 2 play versions with cash-shop.

    It's not released yet.

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • RickSaadaRickSaada Senior Developer, POTBSMember Posts: 200

    So just a little record straightening.  Joe, our new producer, isn't exactly "new."  He's been the dev lead for this entire project, and before that on Rails Across America.  So while he's in a new position, he's been involved in all the major decision making on Pirates all along.   After all these years of writing code, he decided he wanted to look at more big picture and design work, so he's stepping up to fill John's shoes.

    Nor are there any plans for a change in direction for the game as a result of the change in producer.  John moved on, not because he didn't like pirates, or Pirates of the Burning Sea, or FLS.  He moved on because he was presented with a fabulous opportunity to work with an old friend on stuff he's very passionate about (he's been advocating doing XBLA stuff here for a while).   And of course selling out to the evil empire across town has obvious advantages.   He wasn't looking, but this was an opportunity he couldn't really pass by and we wish him well.   Once he recovers from all the rum at his sendoff party!

    Rick

    Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM

  • ArclanArclan Member UncommonPosts: 1,550

    Rick,thanks for posting.  Sometimes these rumors never get quelled.  Understandable that new opportunities arise, and we all change careers.  Great, I wish him best of luck! 

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • mk11232mk11232 Member Posts: 217

    Like Vanguard, this game WAS NOT READY FOR RELEASE.  I, and many others, told them that the game needed months of more development.  Heck, in December before the game went prelaunch, they had just changed the avatar pve combat system.  The game was rushed out too soon, who's to blame, who cares.  But it looks bad for SOE to be affiliated with another game release which should have been postponed 6 months to a year more.

  • MasterPain55MasterPain55 Member Posts: 257

    Originally posted by DJXeon


    FLS started six years ago with a 600k budget.
    Potbs has come a long way to what it is today & FLS has managed a tight financial ship.
    Much has happened since then & the days of high cost mmorpg development is over for the time being,
    Potbs retail game sales have unfairly suffered because SOE dragged its heals on giving credit back to the stores for unsold Vanguard boxes - as a consequence some retailers do not stock or promote Sony games right now.



    SOE needs to quickly re-establish its relations with retailers & the only way to do this is to offer price cuts.
    Potbs has already  FTP (Free- to- play) cash shop versions in the eastern countries & although i hope it does not happen in the Europe or the USA this is the current trend.
    SOE is already planning FTP with RMT & i wonder if Potbs is being groomed for it.
    In the meantime the box price is still too high & a monthly sub of $9.99 is the only way for SOE to win back its trust & orders from the large game retailers.
     

    Your definitly BSing your way through this post, you need millions to create retail games in todays world. 600k wont get you anywhere are you even serious with that number? over 6 years the 600k would barley cover work salaries alone..... Also there is no FTP version of the game, i believe i know the interview your reffering too in which the dev later posted that it was a miscommunication, he was reffering to the asia preference of MMOs and explaining how POTBS could be made to satisfy them. Also SOE has no control over what is implemented into this game, POTBS isn't property of SOE, SOE controls subscriptions. Also put yourself in their shoes..... You just spent 6 years of hard work designing a game that you have a passion for. Are you going to spend those 6 years of work only to have your game be released for a mere 30$ at launch.... Of course not! Also 15$ is the universal standard for monthly subscription rates, this shouldn't even be a factor. That 15$ is paying for worker salaries and the tools the devs need to improve the game. By only giving them 10$ a month your forcing people out of jobs and handicaping the development of the game.

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498

    Originally posted by Arclan


    Rick,thanks for posting.  Sometimes these rumors never get quelled.  Understandable that new opportunities arise, and we all change careers.  Great, I wish him best of luck! 

    Certainly it is true that there is no info that it was as I mentioned, but the timing is odd and the lack of him posting goodbye or otherwise saying anything is also odd.  Just one day, few weeks after release and a bunch of changes that are a 'direction change' (at least a direction adjustment) we get the news.  I am not suggesting some blowout or anything, just pointing out the timing and all that as curious.

    --------------------------------
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  • DJXeonDJXeon Member UncommonPosts: 553

     

    Originally posted by MasterPain55


     
    Originally posted by DJXeon


    FLS started six years ago with a 600k budget.
    Potbs has come a long way to what it is today & FLS has managed a tight financial ship.
    Much has happened since then & the days of high cost mmorpg development is over for the time being,
    Potbs retail game sales have unfairly suffered because SOE dragged its heals on giving credit back to the stores for unsold Vanguard boxes - as a consequence some retailers do not stock or promote Sony games right now.



    SOE needs to quickly re-establish its relations with retailers & the only way to do this is to offer price cuts.
    Potbs has already  FTP (Free- to- play) cash shop versions in the eastern countries & although i hope it does not happen in the Europe or the USA this is the current trend.
    SOE is already planning FTP with RMT & i wonder if Potbs is being groomed for it.
    In the meantime the box price is still too high & a monthly sub of $9.99 is the only way for SOE to win back its trust & orders from the large game retailers.
     

     

    Your definitly BSing your way through this post, you need millions to create retail games in todays world. 600k wont get you anywhere are you even serious with that number? over 6 years the 600k would barley cover work salaries alone..... Also there is no FTP version of the game, i believe i know the interview your reffering too in which the dev later posted that it was a miscommunication, he was reffering to the asia preference of MMOs and explaining how POTBS could be made to satisfy them. Also SOE has no control over what is implemented into this game, POTBS isn't property of SOE, SOE controls subscriptions. Also put yourself in their shoes..... You just spent 6 years of hard work designing a game that you have a passion for. Are you going to spend those 6 years of work only to have your game be released for a mere 30$ at launch.... Of course not! Also 15$ is the universal standard for monthly subscription rates, this shouldn't even be a factor. That 15$ is paying for worker salaries and the tools the devs need to improve the game. By only giving them 10$ a month your forcing people out of jobs and handicaping the development of the game.



    Well Bigpond in Austrailia have seen fit to offer up to 12 months free play for existing subscribers of Potbs at launch, a smart move to fill up its server/s & others will pay nothing for the electronic install.

     

    The point i wanted to make is that full servers or the growing trend in populations that makes them full is more important than a full price box or monthly subscription.

    Turbine know this & have made it a priority to reduce Lotro prices - all i'm saying is that FLS/SOE may have to consider it at some point..

    FLS have said that they are happy with current sales although it's a little early to know if more players are leaving than joining - The overall trend in online population numbers is all that matters. 

  • DJXeonDJXeon Member UncommonPosts: 553

     

    Originally posted by AgtSmith


     
    Originally posted by Arclan


    Rick,thanks for posting.  Sometimes these rumors never get quelled.  Understandable that new opportunities arise, and we all change careers.  Great, I wish him best of luck! 

     

    Certainly it is true that there is no info that it was as I mentioned, but the timing is odd and the lack of him posting goodbye or otherwise saying anything is also odd.  Just one day, few weeks after release and a bunch of changes that are a 'direction change' (at least a direction adjustment) we get the news.  I am not suggesting some blowout or anything, just pointing out the timing and all that as curious.



    Yep & for it to be so sudden after release may indicate that Rev was expecting much higher numbers & perhaps felt his position was untenable or better served in microsoft.

     

    i guess we will never know.

     

  • GyrusGyrus Member UncommonPosts: 2,413

     

    Originally posted by DJXeon


     

    Well Bigpond in Austrailia have seen fit to offer up to 12 months free play for existing subscribers of Potbs at launch, a smart move to fill up its server/s & others will pay nothing for the electronic install.
     

     

     

    No.  That is not true.  Sorry.

    You could apply for this and IF FLS chose you (i.e. thought you were "suitable") AND an Australian / New Zealand resident then you would be selected for the programme.

    And it is not that good of a deal.  Because you will end up being a "babysitter" to a bunch of people who are not MMORPG savvy and only got involved because it was "free".

     

    Then it is going to turn ugly.  Why?

    Because there is ONE Aussie server.  So, during the low pop hours what do you do?

    Switch to a Euro server right?

    Nope.  Sorry.  Those servers are for SOE customers only.

    Now FLS might have got away with that (when I say "might" - I mean snowball's chance in hell - but that is still a chance right?) only the Forums for the Aussies are the same forums as the SOE people are using...

    So, how long do you think it will be before the Aussies start to get really pissed off that everyone else has access to 10 servers while they have access to one?

    Just to rub salt in the wound they can read about the other societies including the Aussie societies on Antigua but they can't join them?

    "Why weren't we told?" will be the general concensus.

    "OK, so let's move over there then..." - oh, wait, no character transfers....

     

    But okay, this is fair because the Aussies got the client for free, right?

    Well, yes, fair point... but wait.. the monthly subscription (even taking into account the exchange rate) is almost the same!

    And doing a bit of math we find that if an Aussie subs up for a year they will have paid about US$176 compared to an SOE customer who will have paid about US$215.

    So the Aussie has paid about 80% what the SOE customer has paid for a fraction of the content (remember the one nation per server rule?)

     

    To make this particularly bad - FLS have said they are aiming at the casual gamers, people who have never MMOed before? 

    Nice way to introduce them.

    Welcome to MMOs... this is what it feels like to get burned!

     

    Now, maybe I am wrong?  I hope so.  But I got a reeeeal bad feeling about all this.

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • DJXeonDJXeon Member UncommonPosts: 553

    Originally posted by Gyrus


     
     
    No.  That is not true.  Sorry.
    You could apply for this and IF FLS chose you (i.e. thought you were "suitable") AND an Australian / New Zealand resident then you would be selected for the programme.
    And it is not that good of a deal.  Because you will end up being a "babysitter" to a bunch of people who are not MMORPG savvy and only got involved because it was "free".
     
    Then it is going to turn ugly.  Why?
    Because there is ONE Aussie server.  So, during the low pop hours what do you do?

    Switch to a Euro server right?

    Nope.  Sorry.  Those servers are for SOE customers only.
    Now FLS might have got away with that (when I say "might" - I mean snowball's chance in hell - but that is still a chance right?) only the Forums for the Aussies are the same forums as the SOE people are using...
    So, how long do you think it will be before the Aussies start to get really pissed off that everyone else has access to 10 servers while they have access to one?

    Just to rub salt in the wound they can read about the other societies including the Aussie societies on Antigua but they can't join them?

    "Why weren't we told?" will be the general concensus.

    "OK, so let's move over there then..." - oh, wait, no character transfers....
     
    But okay, this is fair because the Aussies got the client for free, right?
    Well, yes, fair point... but wait.. the monthly subscription (even taking into account the exchange rate) is almost the same!

    And doing a bit of math we find that if an Aussie subs up for a year they will have paid about US$176 compared to an SOE customer who will have paid about US$215.

    So the Aussie has paid about 80% what the SOE customer has paid for a fraction of the content (remember the one nation per server rule?)
     
    To make this particularly bad - FLS have said they are aiming at the casual gamers, people who have never MMOed before? 

    Nice way to introduce them.

    Welcome to MMOs... this is what it feels like to get burned!
     
    Now, maybe I am wrong?  I hope so.  But I got a reeeeal bad feeling about all this.
    At least it's creative marketing which SOE has shown no signs of ....

    Isn't part of the current problem because there are 11 servers with some being almost empty - starting off with one then adding the second or more when they distribute the free copies makes sense.

    i'm sure players prefer to play on full servers. For those that want 24/7 servers the choice is there.

  • GyrusGyrus Member UncommonPosts: 2,413

    Originally posted by DJXeon


     


    At least it's creative marketing which SOE has shown no signs of ....
     
    Isn't part of the current problem because there are 11 servers with some being almost empty - starting off with one then adding the second or more when they distribute the free copies makes sense.
    i'm sure players prefer to play on full servers. For those that want 24/7 servers the choice is there.

    Actually, it shows VERY creative marketing, from FLS - for SOE!

    Do you see why?

    Aussie gamers will get the client for "free" and play for "free" for seven days.

    Only it's not really "free" is it?  Bigpond is paying.

    And why are they doing that?  Because they hope to get a percentage of the ongoing monthly subs and all the business that goes with that.

    During that seven day trial some will get interested enough to want to continue playing... and they will find their way to the FLS forums... where they will learn that they have the "poor man's copy" of the game.

    They will learn about the SOE edition and Station Pass

    At the end of that seven days they will face an interesting choice:

    1/ Sub up with Bigpond/Game Arena OR

    2/ Purchase the SOE edition via the internet and Sub up to the SOE Edition.

    Those that chose option 2 leave Bigpond with a hole in the pocket... wonder if they will be pissed?

    Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  • darkshad9999darkshad9999 Member Posts: 6
    This is my review of the game Pirates of the Burning Sea
    ("POTBS")

    Basically this game is a waste of time and money and the game
    should have died when Sony Online Entertainment ("SOE") said
    that they had enough of this game.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/18/pirates-of-the-burning-sea-sails-away-from-sony-online-entertain/

    The company that took over this game Portalus http://portalusgames.com/
    does absolutely nothing to actually try and control what happens in
    the game itself and the only thing that they seem to care about is
    to try and soak the players for as much money as they can.  

    Even though they list it as "Free to play" they limit as to what you can do
    in game such as the number of boat slots you have avaiable to only 2
    and the number of economy slots to two slots as well.

    There is also word that Portalus is going to bring back the Captain's Club
    as well which was put in place by Sony Online Entertainment as well
    where there is a subcription each month as well.

    Once you get into the game you start to find all of this out and that you
    have to purchase all of this if you truely want to be able to play
    this game on Treasure Isle which is their online store.

    Griefing a huge problem in this game as well as cross teaming where people
    are making multiple accounts and playing in multiple nations and using information
    from one nation to another to gain an advantage in the game. Again Portalus is
    doing absolutely nothing to try and stop this and control any of this and make
    this game actually fair.

    The problem with the cross teaming even goes as far as using one account in one
    nation to find out what another nation or indvidiaul is doing and then using
    that information to attack and kill another player.

    http://www.potbs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=7f76b82644e83950475d35d12827a4fa&t=92083

    http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84016

    http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/potbs-big-waste-of-time.11447/page-3


    Once again Portalus has no staff in game and no one there to stop these kind of
    things.  Players get away with pretty much what ever they want in game. Portalus
    can put what ever rules they want on their website but they have absolutely no one
    in game to actually enforce the rules that they set so what good is really having
    these rules.

    Over all this game is horribly run by Portalus Games and should have died with
    Sony.  If this is how Portalus games is going to run this game then it probably
    won't be around for too much longer.

    http://syncaine.com/2008/04/17/understanding-failure-the-potbs-story/


    All of these problems clearly show in game where the number of servers were cut from
    11 to 4 and now they have cut that down further to just 2 servers. Roberts and Antigua

    The economy on this game is extremely screwed up as well and is to the point where it
    is just broken The Avatar combat system ("AVCOM") where players can fight each other
    person to person is also extremely busted and doesn't work there have been multiple
    complaints about the AVCOM system being busted in this game but yet Portalus still
    has not fixed it.

    The missions that you do in this game are nothing more than a repeat of the one before
    you end up seeing the same mission with a very slight twist over and over using the same
    areas for the missions as well. It gets very boring, very fast.

    Yet another problem with this game currently is that every time you log into the game
    you get a message popping up on your screen saying that it could not connect to port
    7000-7100 UDP and that it is going to use TCP instead of UDP.  Portalus has known
    about this for a long time now and has done absolutely nothing to fix it.

    It has nothing to do with the players end either everyone is getting that same message
    it seems.  Half-Hitch one of the staff claims they are "working on it" but there has
    been absolutely no progress what so ever.

    http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78866&page=2

    "We're working on the problem."

    The graphics on the game are medicore to lowend at best and really nothing special at all.
    A lot better job could have been done with the graphics on this game.

    Also another annoying problem with this game is after you have been playing it for a while
    you get an error popping up saying "Out of memory" even if you have 4 Gig or 8 gig or RAM.
    Again this is a problem with the game which has never been corrected.  Your game crashes
    back to your desktop and you disconnected from the game.

    http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77800

    Oh and you are probably saying to yourself why not submit a ticket to Portalus well
    good luck with that I was informed by the Support person that there is only ONE
    person currently doing support for this game and that is him. There is no one
    else helping him.




    http://tobolds.blogspot.ca/2008/04/pirates-sinking-fast.html



    Over all Pirates of the Burning Sea ("POTBS") is a huge failure and should be avoided.
    And Portalus if you are reading this please do everyone a favor and let this game die
    in peace and put it to rest.
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