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PlaneShift devs, you deserve a medal!
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No, average uptime and downtime has no effect on the average player online during uptime. Unless really borked programming wise, the number of players statistics are separate from the uptime/downtime calculations. So the 97 players online is indeed inline with pstruths' figures. And active accounts should be for people currently playing at least once a week as far as statisitics if your going to want to show 10,000 real people playing currently. From the system I see represented in your post, an active accounts is any account used more than 10 hours.
And I won't say this is anything new, as most free to play games out there that tout "millions of players" are counting every person who ever signed up for an account, whether they played or not. At least the figures here do show accounts never used, so I'll give credit for that.
Bravo, Zorvy. You just discounted all of pstruth's posts in other threads that blatently attacked either the game, the devs, or the players that you never responded to. I repeat. Double standard.
I have also not reported any of ps'truth's posts that were not trolling me, and only did so to one many weeks ago. Do not place me in a group with others. Which reminds me. Where is the group of people that agree with pstruth? You know barely anything about the game, so do not count. If he was right, you would think there would still be people coming in here to support him. Odd that the great majority of people do not. Of couse, he will imply it is because the PS devs are sending over brainwashed minions to do their duty.
I changed my mind. PlaneShift is not worth the time.
Alright, so then the calculations done by the bot are not necessarily coinciding with the actual data put out by the games' system. That would explain a discrepancy in the figures, then. Thank you.
Yeah, Zorvan! Quit holding people accountable for what they post! It's inconvenient.
I think it's fair for you to point out that I post opinions as well.
However, Talad is doing more than just posting his opinions. He's acting like he owns this forum. He's saying that anyone who sees things differently than him is a troll and should leave. He's presenting an extremely intolerant, black and white view of things, when reality isn't on his side, and he's being very hostile about it.
On the official forum, that stuff flies depending on who's doing it. Here, not so much.
And yet you still wonder why your posts get so many mod edits...
Alright, at this point I'd advise just ignoring Zorvan's posts. And I don't mean this as a flame, they are simple there to annoy people.
Anybody who knows me knows that I'm going to never live this down but, listen to UTM. He was right in the 14 year old thread and he's been right so far here.
I understand you don't like pstruth's posts, Talad. Neither do I and neither do any of the PS players who actually add to the community. So, just ignore them.
Thank you for posting that. It was very enlightening. It looks like the true number of active players is anywhere from 4,000 to the number Talad posted, depending on how you do the math and how you define "active player".
My number for average number of players online (80-100) comes from experience. Usually when I'm on, it's around 60 players, but it can also be three times that number if there's an event.
My math was not an attempt to skew anything. It was merely the best data available to me at the time.
Edit: After reading Zorvan's reply to your post, I'm no longer sure who is right.
Says you.
I'm sorry. But, at this point can you just go create a new thread, pstruth?
I have no arguments with you but, I figure we've gone off topic enough as it is.
I don't mean this in a "Get out of the thread" sense but "Let's go somewhere better to talk about this". I'm sure you agree
Says you.
Merely using the best data available to me at the timeI also think there's evidence that people are worried about being banned or punished for what they post here. Tuxide told me that some GMs contacted an mmorpg.com staffer to try to obtain personal information on me. Why would they want such information if not to retaliate? (The staffer refused to cooperate.)
As far as why more PSers don't post here, I would say it's because they aren't regulars to mmorpg.com.
Frankly, who in their right mind would want to make posts critical of the game when they see what happens to others who do?
Would you let me get away with that if I did? If I started a new thread, and the first post was a reply to Talad's reply to my post, then I'd be accused by UTM, Tuxide, and Talad of trolling and of trying to lure the devs into a flame war.
When he posts in a thread, the thread has already "degenerated", typically because of what he's replying to. His policing only annoys the people who need to be policed.
Would you let me get away with that if I did? If I started a new thread, and the first post was a reply to Talad's reply to my post, then I'd be accused by UTM, Tuxide, and Talad of trolling and of trying to lure the devs into a flame war.
When he posts in a thread, the thread has already "degenerated", typically because of what he's replying to. His policing only annoys the people who need to be policed.
Yes, especially if I asked you to, pstruth.
And says you, I've observed differently. Perhaps he does jump into already degenerating threads but, even if I grant you that, you can not deny that his presence does nothing more than act as a catalyst to that degeneration.
I changed my mind. PlaneShift is not worth the time.
I'm sorry, you are correct, and I don't know what I was thinking.
I just checked the PM I was thinking of and this is what it says:
There are unanswered questions here, and it's extremely telling that the GMs went after my identity. The only purpose for that would be retaliation for the opinions I've posted here. But I remembered it completely wrong. The conversation was only two months ago but I'm surprised at myself.
UtMoon, I don't think you're brainwashed. I do think you're heavily invested in the PlaneShift community, and I think you have very strong opinions. I do think most players are conditioned to hold their tongue when they have critical observations, but that's not the same as brainwashing.
Given that a lot of the "proof" has been deleted or was never originally public, this isn't exactly true. Many people behave differently when they know others are watching or when they know they'll be held accountable for how they treat others. Are you saying you've never seen a thread or post get deleted because it made a moderator or GM look bad? Once we start talking about IRC, then it's a whole different ballgame because the text is there for a while and then it disappears.
So it's not exactly true that the proof is out there, except for the testimony of various individuals, and testimony is always flawed evidence.
I think the PS staff are more sensitive to PR and public image than they've ever been. I know individuals such as myself can accept credit for it. Even though I wish the changes were motivated by a desire to treat people well instead of a desire to protect the game's public image, I think we've seen positive effects from it.
So long as things improve, I don't care how many people agree with me about how things used to be. It's not a fair expectation and I care more about the health of the PS community than holding a grudge.
Blame the victims?
Hmm... I can understand a victim complex but, even then, calling people who are given a game 'victims' is a bit much, no?
Even if they have that game taken away from them, I'd still laugh at somebody who called themselves a 'victim'.
And as one of the longest playing PS players I'd like to point out that the community has not improved. It's stayed the same for the most part except for a few periods where a player has just disturbed the balance with their victim complexes (Datruth, Zanzibar and the like) or with their trolling (Kixie, Link, Zetsumei).
As much as I enjoy the community today it's no better than the one when I started playing. Just larger.
Come back AFTER you play before you decide to start handing out medals.
Edit: the "commercial standard" comment made me laugh.
hah, agreed 100%
That was some fancy twisting of what I wrote.
Question: Is the IRC channel or forum a Flame pit?
My answer: You can find out by actually going there and finding out. Make some posts in the complaint forum if you don't like a feature.
Your twist of my answer: The text vanishes! That can't be proof. Posts complaining about GMs are deleted! That can't be proof. Posts... wait, nice way to twist a question about flaming into something about GMs deleting complaints.
Question: Are the Devs power hungry dictators?
My answer: Talk to them. Talk to others.
Your answer: No actual answer besides 'Posts are deleted'. Posts are deleted in all forums. Make a complaint thread about a MMORPG forum mod and see how long it lasts. You don't enter someone's house and spit on their forhead if front of their other guests.
Since you can't seem to grasp the concept, I'll explain it again. Unles they have done something so bad it requires their removal, you do NOT publicly deride the people in charge. It is bad for the morale of the person as well as the team. It is also bad for the image of the team, yes, which is another blow to morale. Teams with bad morale do not get things done as fast OR as well. It also creates a negative sepperation between players and Devs and GMs, especially those getting no gain out of doing what they are.
You have not helped, so no, you don't get any credit. You are seen as pompus and self-rightous by everyone I know. You have insulted everyone who works on the game. We do nothing for people like you. You and your ilk have done far more damage than good. The amount of work time lost because you pissed someone off on the team is stagering. This is not their job, so when someone iritates them, they leave and do something else. I have done it myself.
You are slowing production down. You are giving the Devs and GMs a negative view of players. Nothing you have done here has made any productive output. Perhaps the only good thing you have done is make a lot of the Devs simply write this forum off as a troll habitat. The only reason the community seems to have improved is because people like you, Zanzibar, Datruth, Link, psybur, and a grocery list of others no longer post on the PS forums or visit IRC. The feel of the community jumped up greatly. Thank you. I guess you do get some creadit after all.
Am I blaming the victim? No. Someone who causes problems for themselves is not a victim. As I have said before, the GMs and Devs do not go out of their way to make problems for players. I can't say the same for some players. You want to be babied by a paid staff that coddles your every whim to keep your money flowing? Go find a paid staff.
PlaneShift Devs -do- deserve a medal for putting up with the same crap all the other games have to, but without getting paid.
I changed my mind. PlaneShift is not worth the time.
Nice job taking things out of context and ignoring what was actually said. I could respond to each point individually and point out how you're manipulating things and misrepresenting them, but it would be a waste of my time.
However, my patience with you runs thin.
So let's waste some time.
You did not ask for proof. You claimed the proof was "out in the open". I disproved this claim. Now you are simply repeating that the proof is out in the open, and that I have failed to give a response to this challenge.
Saying that something about Planeshift needs to be improved does not qualify as "spitting on the foreheads" of the planeshift devs. Making such a claim proves that you are a fanatic who cannot hear any criticism without turning the critic into a villain.
If the team has bad morale, blame Talad. He's the man in charge of such things. Maybe if there was less pressure on the devs, and if the focus was on the process rather than results and quotas and timetables, and if the dev team was managed with a more human touch, and if PR was done with more intelligence, then there would be fewer problems.
"The feel of the community"... what an odd phrase. When you say it, it means "Being around people who agree with me". Frightening.
"As I have said before, the GMs and Devs do not go out of their way to make problems for players."
Of course. They only make problems for themselves.
Is the sun up? Want proof? Go outside. That is where the proof is. Anyone can find it. You don't seem to understand the concept, and have disproved nothing.
I am around the Devs. I know what goes on a great deal more than most people. What you do is spitting on them. I don't care if you think it is just to wipe the smudge off their cheeks. You offend and insult them. It does not matter what you think you are doing, because that is how it turns out on this end. You simply do not seem to understand what your calous comments do to folks who are doing their best. Well, of course you don't think they -are- doing their best.
We discuss -valid- complaints. Your complaints that the devs should adjust their personalities to suit the few people like you better is not valid. It is inconsiderate and selfish.
You make the statement about Talad as if you know what is going on. Your very words prove you don't have a clue as to the internal structure of the Dev team and what goes on there. You are an outsider pretending to have the inside scoop. You don't. You make assumptions, then assume they are right.
You are an outsider for the simple fact that most people do not agree with you. You are an outsider because you don't know what really goes on. You are an outsider because you choose to be. Your facts are nothing more than your bloated opinions, which help nothing. I repeat again, -you- are the direct cause of a great deal of bad feelings and times of lowered morale in members of the Dev team. You and your ilk contribute nothing but irritation, and have only made some Devs distance themselves from players even more. No, I'll not blame Talad. The mention of his nick does not bring about a wave of irritation from Devs, GMs, and even players. Yours does.
Yes, I am talking about the people who agree with me. Why? Because it is most of the playerbase. Frightening? Hardly. If there was an extreme problem like you claim, I would not be here right now defending them against invalid accusations. What you see as the 'right to post', I see as being inconsiderate and argumentitive. I have posted my share of criticisms on varyous things in Planeshift, some of them quite hostile. I have never once had one of them deleted. There is a bit of proof for you right there.
Go ahead. Let your patience run thin. Feel what it is like to be on this side of the fence. In the long run, PlaneShift will succeed dispite people like you, not because of. It will succeed because of people like Talad, dispite what naysayers may think.
You are simply a non-factor. Only those who stick around and talk to the Devs get to change things. Running off to another forum with lies that no one can post complaints on the PS forum gets you nothing. Nothing written by you on this forum will change anything in PS other than everyone with any sense of the truth will stop coming to this forum. Then you can have your own little world to complain in, with two or three people to agree with you (if they ever show up). Enjoy.
I changed my mind. PlaneShift is not worth the time.
To dispute you is to repeat myself.
I'm continually amazed at your ability to say so little despite such high word counts. If individuals are doing their best, and they're still treating the players so poorly and with such an air of contempt and arrogance, then their best simply isn't good enough. Some people simply aren't fit for the positions they're placed in. They should be writing code instead of answering emails or seeking positions of leadership.
This is not a matter of the vocal few. This is a matter of the masses and the future of the PlaneShift project. Open your eyes.
Volunteers are not 'placed' anywhere. They step up to the plate and do what they can. This is a lot more than I can say for you. You slink off into the stands and pitch garbage down on the field because those at bat aren't good enough for you.
You do not speak for the masses. You cower on another forum that the Devs do not even read for the most part and expect to change things. You speak for yourself, and no one else.
I have my eyes open, or I would not have moved from being a player to becoming a prospect on the team, and actaully making changes. It seems that you are the one to have dropped the ball because of lack of vision. Or is hiding on another forum and tossing stones part of your master plan for making the grander vision of Planeshift come true?
The problem is that you see the Devs as a lost cause that needs to be replaced because of their flaws. I see the Devs as the driving force behind the project despite their flaws.
You can try to disput me, but it is pointless. As PlaneShift stands now, and in the future, you, the stone thrower, don't matter.
I changed my mind. PlaneShift is not worth the time.
Of course volunteers are given placements. They are either accepted or not accepted. If accepted, they have certain responsibilities and restrictions. And the buck ends at Talad's door.
And you're right. A lot of what happens isn't good enough for me. More to the point though, it isn't good enough for PlaneShift given the potential it has.
Do I speak for myself and only for myself? Of course I do. That doesn't mean others don't agree with me. And if I'm right, it doesn't matter how many people agree with me or even like me. Truth is not a popularity contest.
You continually post crap that suggests you're ignoring the message of my posts. It's either that or you're just trying to cause trouble and provoke me into a flame war. You reply to stuff that was never said, and at the same time you ignore stuff that has real substance to it. This is not a political campaign. We can afford to be real with one another. We can afford to agree with one another, we can afford to admit we make mistakes, we can even afford to admit to being human. But you want to present yourself as righteously infallible, and that's a problem. Until that changes, how can we hope to move forward? Until that changes, how can the project hope to survive?