That wasn't directed specifically at you, but was meant to include you. Several people are accusing the guy of working for SOE, and If you didn't mean to do the same, it sure looked like it to me. I apologize if I misunderstood the intent of your comment, but I really don't think that's the case. If I am incorrect, Please explain what you meant, and it it wasn't an attempt to discount the opinion of the OP by implying that he was a shill for SOE?
upon further examination i rescind my shill comment it appears he is what he claims,and if he can enjoy it more power to him,
We see this every other month someone puts in a plug for SWG and doesn't come back to continue in the discussion at least this guy cared enough about his statement to follow it up,but for some who make such statements and leave never to be heard from again what are we suppose to think,we were mean and drove them off?
posh if someone isn't brave enough to stand behind there statements and post a reply to questions they really are not worth taking seriously.
So I decided to give the trial a shot and I am happy to say I am really enjoying it. I dont know if I will have as much fun as I did pre-NGE/CU but I can honestly say that the game is very fun. To all former players I say why not download the trial and give it a chance you never know you might like it.
If you look carefully, I'm fairly certain you'll find that this guy has an SOE employee badge hidden somewhere in his clothing.
So i'm not the only one that saw that eh? Heh. They be crawling these forums these days. It even sounds rehearsed. A commercial even.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Welcome back mate, glad to see you actually tried it, un-like most here.
What server are you playing on? If it is chilastra i have a great guild that does RP and PVP, we have like 5 slots lets so better get your skates on if you wish to join
Pre-cu Fanbois, There will be no rollback. Go outside - Get a life, It's not coming back. We arn't giving you your game-back. So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years. Pre-cu Fanbois.
Welcome back mate, glad to see you actually tried it, un-like most here.
What server are you playing on? If it is chilastra i have a great guild that does RP and PVP, we have like 5 slots lets so better get your skates on if you wish to join
Hey buddy! Still waiting on that proof. Did you forget? I guess so. Oh well... guess you dont have it.
As for us not trying it.... thats bull. I have tried it on trials for many times to see if it changed for the good.. still feels like the abomination that it is. Heck thats with me even trying to enjoy it.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Welcome back mate, glad to see you actually tried it, un-like most here.
What server are you playing on? If it is chilastra i have a great guild that does RP and PVP, we have like 5 slots lets so better get your skates on if you wish to join
Hey buddy! Still waiting on that proof. Did you forget? I guess so. Oh well... guess you dont have it.
As for us not trying it.... thats bull. I have tried it on trials for many times to see if it changed for the good.. still feels like the abomination that it is. Heck thats with me even trying to enjoy it.
As i previously stated without you providing any proof there isn't any point in me providing proof because I have already been proven correct, but if that changes and you decide to find my proof, let me know
If the game isn't for you perhaps you should try other MMO's or go outside, heres a few links to help you
www.runescape.coM
www.worldofwarcraft.com
Enjoy, if you need any help mail me.
Pre-cu Fanbois, There will be no rollback. Go outside - Get a life, It's not coming back. We arn't giving you your game-back. So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years. Pre-cu Fanbois.
Originally posted by Suvroc It amazes me how people get so incensed over a video game.
I dunno about you but I pay money for my games - which makes them products and therefore susceptable to the same critisims as any other product.
Are you still paying for it? I doubt it. Once you cancel your sub, it impacts your finances zero. This argument is like me crying about a bad Big Mac I bought in 2005... for three years.
This is part of the reason people get pissed off at MMO games like this: since you don't actually own the product, these games become entertainment investments. You can't just "ask for a refund" though I'm sure all of the vets would be satisfied if they could.
Think of the economics here: a player who played from day 1 to CU is about 2 years in the hole. Playing from day 1 to NGE is about 2.5 years in the hole.
2.5 x 12 x 15 = $450 USD
...and that's assuming you didn't pay for a yearly subscription in the period between the CU and NGE in which case the damage is even more.
That's not even taking into effect the sentiment of time spent playing the game, which to many of the ex-hardcore player vets has significantly more value.
The short of it is that people got FUCKED with this game in a very bad way. It's happened to several other games before, sure, but each time it happens it creates a contingent of folks who become a very aggressive vocal force. And why not do this? Someone has to stand up for the consumer, and who better to do that than consumers themselves?
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Originally posted by Suvroc It amazes me how people get so incensed over a video game.
I dunno about you but I pay money for my games - which makes them products and therefore susceptable to the same critisims as any other product.
Are you still paying for it? I doubt it. Once you cancel your sub, it impacts your finances zero. This argument is like me crying about a bad Big Mac I bought in 2005... for three years.
This is part of the reason people get pissed off at MMO games like this: since you don't actually own the product, these games become entertainment investments. You can't just "ask for a refund" though I'm sure all of the vets would be satisfied if they could.
Think of the economics here: a player who played from day 1 to CU is about 2 years in the hole. Playing from day 1 to NGE is about 2.5 years in the hole.
2.5 x 12 x 15 = $450 USD
...and that's assuming you didn't pay for a yearly subscription in the period between the CU and NGE in which case the damage is even more.
That's not even taking into effect the sentiment of time spent playing the game, which to many of the ex-hardcore player vets has significantly more value.
The short of it is that people got FUCKED with this game in a very bad way. It's happened to several other games before, sure, but each time it happens it creates a contingent of folks who become a very aggressive vocal force. And why not do this? Someone has to stand up for the consumer, and who better to do that than consumers themselves?
It sucks, and the NGE's release was a huge mistake, but the fact that you state its happened before in other games really emphasises the point that you gotta accept that that is the nature off MMOs, in that they can change, entirely legally anytime the developers so please. If you are pissed off you lost all that time invested, forget it, because you only invested that time to have fun (you had fun all the way), it wasnt just the end goal that brought entertainment (whatever it may be; jedi, mastering etc), infact it wasnt that part at all, it was the getting there that you enjoyed. Therefore, you only really lost more time to play the game, not time invested. Sure it can be argued that those who achieved jedi etc lost alot, but you know what i mean, its the enjoyment that counts.
It sucks, and the NGE's release was a huge mistake, but the fact that you state its happened before in other games really emphasises the point that you gotta accept that that is the nature off MMOs, in that they can change, entirely legally anytime the developers so please. If you are pissed off you lost all that time invested, forget it, because you only invested that time to have fun (you had fun all the way), it wasnt just the end goal that brought entertainment (whatever it may be; jedi, mastering etc), infact it wasnt that part at all, it was the getting there that you enjoyed. Therefore, you only really lost more time to play the game, not time invested. Sure it can be argued that those who achieved jedi etc lost alot, but you know what i mean, its the enjoyment that counts.
I'm just throwing this out there but maybe the reason SWG got hit so bad is because not enough people spoke out when those other games were decimated.
But as you pointed out it is entirely legal for the developers to do this anytime they please. Do you not think that that is simply too much power over a product you bought? I say it's time for some changes in the industry, because as a consumer I cannot have confidenece in those products. I don't have the answers to this but I think it's definately time that someone somewhere begins discussions on this.
It sucks, and the NGE's release was a huge mistake, but the fact that you state its happened before in other games really emphasises the point that you gotta accept that that is the nature off MMOs, in that they can change, entirely legally anytime the developers so please. If you are pissed off you lost all that time invested, forget it, because you only invested that time to have fun (you had fun all the way), it wasnt just the end goal that brought entertainment (whatever it may be; jedi, mastering etc), infact it wasnt that part at all, it was the getting there that you enjoyed. Therefore, you only really lost more time to play the game, not time invested. Sure it can be argued that those who achieved jedi etc lost alot, but you know what i mean, its the enjoyment that counts.
I'm just throwing this out there but maybe the reason SWG got hit so bad is because not enough people spoke out when those other games were decimated.
But as you pointed out it is entirely legal for the developers to do this anytime they please. Do you not think that that is simply too much power over a product you bought? I say it's time for some changes in the industry, because as a consumer I cannot have confidenece in those products. I don't have the answers to this but I think it's definately time that someone somewhere begins discussions on this.
I dont think its too much power, companies such as SOE are there to make a profit, that ultimately is their goal, as it is with any other company no matter what they tell you; now without freedom to be able to shape the product as they see fit, the market would collapse/shrink - These companies invest years (without any profit) into developing these games, and therefore they must have the assurance that if it is not successful at first, that they can alter it without being sued or stopped. If regulations were put in place, many companies would simply not take the risk. Now, obviously SOE screwed this up in many people's eyes (and in their own), and as it is clear to see, it was a bid for more subscribers, to make more profit, the question is, if from the beggining there had been rules dictating MMOs could have no major change, would SWG have existed in the first place?
I dont think its too much power, companies such as SOE are there to make a profit, that ultimately is their goal, as it is with any other company no matter what they tell you; now without freedom to be able to shape the product as they see fit, the market would collapse/shrink - These companies invest years (without any profit) into developing these games, and therefore they must have the assurance that if it is not successful at first, that they can alter it without being sued or stopped. If regulations were put in place, many companies would simply not take the risk. Now, obviously SOE screwed this up in many people's eyes (and in their own), and as it is clear to see, it was a bid for more subscribers, to make more profit, the question is, if from the beggining there had been rules dictating MMOs could have no major change, would SWG have existed in the first place?
There are billions of dollars to be made in the gaming industry.
Do you honestly think some regulations are gonna get in the way of that much money?
The industry will do exactly what so many people have told the vets here over the years - adapt.
I dont think its too much power, companies such as SOE are there to make a profit, that ultimately is their goal, as it is with any other company no matter what they tell you; now without freedom to be able to shape the product as they see fit, the market would collapse/shrink - These companies invest years (without any profit) into developing these games, and therefore they must have the assurance that if it is not successful at first, that they can alter it without being sued or stopped. If regulations were put in place, many companies would simply not take the risk. Now, obviously SOE screwed this up in many people's eyes (and in their own), and as it is clear to see, it was a bid for more subscribers, to make more profit, the question is, if from the beggining there had been rules dictating MMOs could have no major change, would SWG have existed in the first place?
There are billions of dollars to be made in the gaming industry.
Do you honestly think some regulations are gonna get in the way of that much money?
The industry will do exactly what so many people have told the vets here over the years - adapt.
Yes i do honestly believe it; that is the nature of the market, the same can be said for many other areas as well. Its quite logical really. There may be billions of dollars in the gaming industry, WoW probably has a considerable precentage of that; so imagine rules are put in place - a brand new company is putting thousands, maybe millions of dollars at stake to make a game they cant improve or have any considerable say over? it just doesnt happen. Its free market theory, and its for benefit of both the companies and consumers.
Yes i do honestly believe it; that is the nature of the market, the same can be said for many other areas as well. Its quite logical really. There may be billions of dollars in the gaming industry, WoW probably has a considerable precentage of that; so imagine rules are put in place - a brand new company is putting thousands, maybe millions of dollars at stake to make a game they cant improve or have any considerable say over? it just doesnt happen. Its free market theory, and its for benefit of both the companies and consumers.
But you're looking at it in terms of absolutes, and under those conditions then yes the industry would collapse.
What I am saying is this, there must be a middle ground and a compromise on how far and what kind of expectations there are for change.
For example, the core game mechanics I feel should be severly limited in making changes. But things like item stats should have a great deal of flexability.
This will not kill the industry, but rather encourage a stability that will not cause so much frustration. In the long term I think it would actually help the industry.
Yes i do honestly believe it; that is the nature of the market, the same can be said for many other areas as well. Its quite logical really. There may be billions of dollars in the gaming industry, WoW probably has a considerable precentage of that; so imagine rules are put in place - a brand new company is putting thousands, maybe millions of dollars at stake to make a game they cant improve or have any considerable say over? it just doesnt happen. Its free market theory, and its for benefit of both the companies and consumers.
Gasp! I actually agree with Saay, to an extent. Regulating the gaming industry would bring about the death of the gaming industry or at least severely curtail the number of games produced. No company is going to invest milions into a game in which the standards for development have been established by the government. In the free market, corporations have their own standards and decide on their own whether option a is more important than option b. In the end, it's up to the consumer to tell that company if the standards were correct or if they felt b was more important that a.
This entire argument is moot anyway since MMORPGs are often operated in multiple countries and on multiple continents. To do as suggested would pretty much require a multi-national governing body and multi national treaties. Somehow I just can't see the U.N. establishing a workgroup to oversee the rights of consumers in the online gaming market.
This entire argument is moot anyway since MMORPGs are often operated in multiple countries and on multiple continents. To do as suggested would pretty much require a multi-national governing body and multi national treaties. Somehow I just can't see the U.N. establishing a workgroup to oversee the rights of consumers in the online gaming market.
But how does the music and film industry work in multiple countries and continents?
What we do here is exactly what needed to preserve our right as consumer. Giving a game a bad review and judging about the low morale and the company behind this, $OE, a bad reputation is acting for the better.
They have the money to buy people and their voices, we have to be a bit louder to get heard.
Till there is a law to punish $OE for what they did its the only way to get justice. And till then it isn't covered by laws they will continue to act like that and thats why it is required to remember them everyday they wake up.
To push the risk on the customer may be for companies a funny trick to minimize it and i am sure they laugh as hell about . But not with me Sir !
Its your turn to create a ready , well sophisticated, polished Game that doesn't require that much changes >.< Its not customer fault ify ou pulled the game to early on the market , it was your greed ! you suck, not me ! they day you realized you had the wrong type of customer for 2+ years, you suck not me !your empty serversof another 2+ years, you suck not me !
I will not allow you to put that risk of yours onto my shoulders !
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
This entire argument is moot anyway since MMORPGs are often operated in multiple countries and on multiple continents. To do as suggested would pretty much require a multi-national governing body and multi national treaties. Somehow I just can't see the U.N. establishing a workgroup to oversee the rights of consumers in the online gaming market.
But how does the music and film industry work in multiple countries and continents?
How about software industries such as Microsoft?
Are these industries not regulated in some way?
We have trade treaties governing the protection of IP in other countries. That's what companies use to help protect their IP from being ripped off, which isn't even close to being the same as a universal set of regulations governing how certain businesses operate. The problem is, the treaties we currently have are not easily enforced and we often see other governments making nothing more than token efforts to enforce them, as evidenced by the amount of piracy still coming out of places like China. For any uniform standard to emerge it would have to be adopted and enforced universally. The only way to do this would be through specific multi-national treaties or through the creation of an international workgroup/committee/convention. Its very doubtful something like this would ever happen since the standards gaming companies use in the development of their products means about as much to law makers as the number of people who eat Bran Flakes.
you know i have noticed an increase of people bugging the vets to come back, really just stop, they don't wanna go back, your not gonna change their mind. I never have played this game but hell i'm even getting tired of you people bugging the vets, just shut up and leave them be, sheesh.
swg is dead to them, DEAD! learn to deal with the fact that they aren't gonna go back and play to help you save your game from shut down.
Thank you ScaleBane.
I've cam back several times after the NGE, and get bored after a few months. The main reason I left was the lack of the community that was once there. I was part of a good guild that did weekly events and usually had a pretty good turn out for them. Sometimes we had to form two groups. Now, you can barely find enough people to form on full group.
We have trade treaties governing the protection of IP in other countries. That's what companies use to help protect their IP from being ripped off, which isn't even close to being the same as a universal set of regulations governing how certain businesses operate. The problem is, the treaties we currently have are not easily enforced and we often see other governments making nothing more than token efforts to enforce them, as evidenced by the amount of piracy still coming out of places like China. For any uniform standard to emerge it would have to be adopted and enforced universally. The only way to do this would be through specific multi-national treaties or through the creation of an international workgroup/committee/convention. Its very doubtful something like this would ever happen since the standards gaming companies use in the development of their products means about as much to law makers as the number of people who eat Bran Flakes.
Interesting.
Is there nothing at all that closely resembles the MMO market? Are you aware of any Asian regulations concerning MMO's (particularily RMT's)?
If there are no precedents then all the more reason for a change as this problem can get much, much worse. The industry (particularily SOE) has shown that they cannot regulate themselves, and this I see as being quite dangerous.
If there are no possible methods then the importance of consumers to take a stand is paramount.
We have trade treaties governing the protection of IP in other countries. That's what companies use to help protect their IP from being ripped off, which isn't even close to being the same as a universal set of regulations governing how certain businesses operate. The problem is, the treaties we currently have are not easily enforced and we often see other governments making nothing more than token efforts to enforce them, as evidenced by the amount of piracy still coming out of places like China. For any uniform standard to emerge it would have to be adopted and enforced universally. The only way to do this would be through specific multi-national treaties or through the creation of an international workgroup/committee/convention. Its very doubtful something like this would ever happen since the standards gaming companies use in the development of their products means about as much to law makers as the number of people who eat Bran Flakes.
Interesting.
Is there nothing at all that closely resembles the MMO market? Are you aware of any Asian regulations concerning MMO's (particularily RMT's)?
If there are no precedents then all the more reason for a change as this problem can get much, much worse. The industry (particularily SOE) has shown that they cannot regulate themselves, and this I see as being quite dangerous.
If there are no possible methods then the importance of consumers to take a stand is paramount.
Hehe, you make it sound like the world is gonna end; these things happen all the time no matter what industry - throwing in a bunch of regualtions wouldnt help, it would constrict the MMO industry and also prevent you from getting Pre-CU back (not that its gonna come anyway).
Hehe, you make it sound like the world is gonna end; these things happen all the time no matter what industry - throwing in a bunch of regualtions wouldnt help, it would constrict the MMO industry and also prevent you from getting Pre-CU back (not that its gonna come anyway).
I never claimed that the world was going to end, and you're underestimating (IMO) the ability for the industry to adapt when it comes to that much profit.
Again, I have to ask you to consider the possibilty of a compromise as I mentioned earlier. I'll also ask you to take a moment and consider how open that "Gameplay may change" line is.
It s a very strong power they have over the products we buy, and I for one find that very disconcerting. Consumers get angry over an increase of a few pennies on the price of gas, yet spend $50 on a game and have it virtually decimated overnight and people simply roll over and accept it?
Comments
I thought I was pretty explicit in saying that I cannot say he was a shill or not.
I prefer to give someone the benefit of the doubt, however I cannot discount the possibility.
My question was simply a theortical one. I'm interested to see if someone would defend a poster comments if he knew that that person was a shill.
Perhaps this was simply the wrong place to ask that question as this question may deserve it's own thread.
upon further examination i rescind my shill comment it appears he is what he claims,and if he can enjoy it more power to him,
We see this every other month someone puts in a plug for SWG and doesn't come back to continue in the discussion at least this guy cared enough about his statement to follow it up,but for some who make such statements and leave never to be heard from again what are we suppose to think,we were mean and drove them off?
posh if someone isn't brave enough to stand behind there statements and post a reply to questions they really are not worth taking seriously.
If you look carefully, I'm fairly certain you'll find that this guy has an SOE employee badge hidden somewhere in his clothing.
So i'm not the only one that saw that eh? Heh. They be crawling these forums these days. It even sounds rehearsed. A commercial even.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Welcome back mate, glad to see you actually tried it, un-like most here.
What server are you playing on? If it is chilastra i have a great guild that does RP and PVP, we have like 5 slots lets so better get your skates on if you wish to join
Pre-cu Fanbois,
There will be no rollback.
Go outside - Get a life,
It's not coming back.
We arn't giving you your game-back.
So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years.
Pre-cu Fanbois.
Hey buddy!
Still waiting on that proof. Did you forget? I guess so. Oh well... guess you dont have it.
As for us not trying it.... thats bull. I have tried it on trials for many times to see if it changed for the good.. still feels like the abomination that it is. Heck thats with me even trying to enjoy it.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Hey buddy!
Still waiting on that proof. Did you forget? I guess so. Oh well... guess you dont have it.
As for us not trying it.... thats bull. I have tried it on trials for many times to see if it changed for the good.. still feels like the abomination that it is. Heck thats with me even trying to enjoy it.
As i previously stated without you providing any proof there isn't any point in me providing proof because I have already been proven correct, but if that changes and you decide to find my proof, let me know
If the game isn't for you perhaps you should try other MMO's or go outside, heres a few links to help you
www.runescape.coM
www.worldofwarcraft.com
Enjoy, if you need any help mail me.
Pre-cu Fanbois,
There will be no rollback.
Go outside - Get a life,
It's not coming back.
We arn't giving you your game-back.
So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years.
Pre-cu Fanbois.
How can you be so sure?
How can you be so sure?
All the vets have" tried it" Mate, And our feeling can be expressed in the last minute of this blokes video
myspacetv.com/index.cfm
I dunno about you but I pay money for my games - which makes them products and therefore susceptable to the same critisims as any other product.
Are you still paying for it? I doubt it. Once you cancel your sub, it impacts your finances zero. This argument is like me crying about a bad Big Mac I bought in 2005... for three years.
This is part of the reason people get pissed off at MMO games like this: since you don't actually own the product, these games become entertainment investments. You can't just "ask for a refund" though I'm sure all of the vets would be satisfied if they could.
Think of the economics here: a player who played from day 1 to CU is about 2 years in the hole. Playing from day 1 to NGE is about 2.5 years in the hole.
2.5 x 12 x 15 = $450 USD
...and that's assuming you didn't pay for a yearly subscription in the period between the CU and NGE in which case the damage is even more.
That's not even taking into effect the sentiment of time spent playing the game, which to many of the ex-hardcore player vets has significantly more value.
The short of it is that people got FUCKED with this game in a very bad way. It's happened to several other games before, sure, but each time it happens it creates a contingent of folks who become a very aggressive vocal force. And why not do this? Someone has to stand up for the consumer, and who better to do that than consumers themselves?
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
I dunno about you but I pay money for my games - which makes them products and therefore susceptable to the same critisims as any other product.
Are you still paying for it? I doubt it. Once you cancel your sub, it impacts your finances zero. This argument is like me crying about a bad Big Mac I bought in 2005... for three years.
This is part of the reason people get pissed off at MMO games like this: since you don't actually own the product, these games become entertainment investments. You can't just "ask for a refund" though I'm sure all of the vets would be satisfied if they could.
Think of the economics here: a player who played from day 1 to CU is about 2 years in the hole. Playing from day 1 to NGE is about 2.5 years in the hole.
2.5 x 12 x 15 = $450 USD
...and that's assuming you didn't pay for a yearly subscription in the period between the CU and NGE in which case the damage is even more.
That's not even taking into effect the sentiment of time spent playing the game, which to many of the ex-hardcore player vets has significantly more value.
The short of it is that people got FUCKED with this game in a very bad way. It's happened to several other games before, sure, but each time it happens it creates a contingent of folks who become a very aggressive vocal force. And why not do this? Someone has to stand up for the consumer, and who better to do that than consumers themselves?
It sucks, and the NGE's release was a huge mistake, but the fact that you state its happened before in other games really emphasises the point that you gotta accept that that is the nature off MMOs, in that they can change, entirely legally anytime the developers so please. If you are pissed off you lost all that time invested, forget it, because you only invested that time to have fun (you had fun all the way), it wasnt just the end goal that brought entertainment (whatever it may be; jedi, mastering etc), infact it wasnt that part at all, it was the getting there that you enjoyed. Therefore, you only really lost more time to play the game, not time invested. Sure it can be argued that those who achieved jedi etc lost alot, but you know what i mean, its the enjoyment that counts.
I'm just throwing this out there but maybe the reason SWG got hit so bad is because not enough people spoke out when those other games were decimated.
But as you pointed out it is entirely legal for the developers to do this anytime they please. Do you not think that that is simply too much power over a product you bought? I say it's time for some changes in the industry, because as a consumer I cannot have confidenece in those products. I don't have the answers to this but I think it's definately time that someone somewhere begins discussions on this.
I'm just throwing this out there but maybe the reason SWG got hit so bad is because not enough people spoke out when those other games were decimated.
But as you pointed out it is entirely legal for the developers to do this anytime they please. Do you not think that that is simply too much power over a product you bought? I say it's time for some changes in the industry, because as a consumer I cannot have confidenece in those products. I don't have the answers to this but I think it's definately time that someone somewhere begins discussions on this.
I dont think its too much power, companies such as SOE are there to make a profit, that ultimately is their goal, as it is with any other company no matter what they tell you; now without freedom to be able to shape the product as they see fit, the market would collapse/shrink - These companies invest years (without any profit) into developing these games, and therefore they must have the assurance that if it is not successful at first, that they can alter it without being sued or stopped. If regulations were put in place, many companies would simply not take the risk. Now, obviously SOE screwed this up in many people's eyes (and in their own), and as it is clear to see, it was a bid for more subscribers, to make more profit, the question is, if from the beggining there had been rules dictating MMOs could have no major change, would SWG have existed in the first place?
There are billions of dollars to be made in the gaming industry.
Do you honestly think some regulations are gonna get in the way of that much money?
The industry will do exactly what so many people have told the vets here over the years - adapt.
There are billions of dollars to be made in the gaming industry.
Do you honestly think some regulations are gonna get in the way of that much money?
The industry will do exactly what so many people have told the vets here over the years - adapt.
Yes i do honestly believe it; that is the nature of the market, the same can be said for many other areas as well. Its quite logical really. There may be billions of dollars in the gaming industry, WoW probably has a considerable precentage of that; so imagine rules are put in place - a brand new company is putting thousands, maybe millions of dollars at stake to make a game they cant improve or have any considerable say over? it just doesnt happen. Its free market theory, and its for benefit of both the companies and consumers.
But you're looking at it in terms of absolutes, and under those conditions then yes the industry would collapse.
What I am saying is this, there must be a middle ground and a compromise on how far and what kind of expectations there are for change.
For example, the core game mechanics I feel should be severly limited in making changes. But things like item stats should have a great deal of flexability.
This will not kill the industry, but rather encourage a stability that will not cause so much frustration. In the long term I think it would actually help the industry.
This entire argument is moot anyway since MMORPGs are often operated in multiple countries and on multiple continents. To do as suggested would pretty much require a multi-national governing body and multi national treaties. Somehow I just can't see the U.N. establishing a workgroup to oversee the rights of consumers in the online gaming market.
How about software industries such as Microsoft?
Are these industries not regulated in some way?
What we do here is exactly what needed to preserve our right as consumer. Giving a game a bad review and judging about the low morale and the company behind this, $OE, a bad reputation is acting for the better.
They have the money to buy people and their voices, we have to be a bit louder to get heard.
Till there is a law to punish $OE for what they did its the only way to get justice. And till then it isn't covered by laws they will continue to act like that and thats why it is required to remember them everyday they wake up.
To push the risk on the customer may be for companies a funny trick to minimize it and i am sure they laugh as hell about . But not with me Sir !
Its your turn to create a ready , well sophisticated, polished Game that doesn't require that much changes >.< Its not customer fault ify ou pulled the game to early on the market , it was your greed ! you suck, not me ! they day you realized you had the wrong type of customer for 2+ years, you suck not me !your empty serversof another 2+ years, you suck not me !
I will not allow you to put that risk of yours onto my shoulders !
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Tried it again as part of station access still complete utter garbage.
Thought id try beast master out and i couldnt find a incubator or a structures trader to craft one.
Community is dead = game dead
poor gameplay = game dead
please SOE save the poor souls who still play and just kill it now
And even more, many people still play $15/mo for it.
How bad does it have to be to not play for free?
I think you have answered that question.....
How about software industries such as Microsoft?
Are these industries not regulated in some way?
We have trade treaties governing the protection of IP in other countries. That's what companies use to help protect their IP from being ripped off, which isn't even close to being the same as a universal set of regulations governing how certain businesses operate. The problem is, the treaties we currently have are not easily enforced and we often see other governments making nothing more than token efforts to enforce them, as evidenced by the amount of piracy still coming out of places like China. For any uniform standard to emerge it would have to be adopted and enforced universally. The only way to do this would be through specific multi-national treaties or through the creation of an international workgroup/committee/convention. Its very doubtful something like this would ever happen since the standards gaming companies use in the development of their products means about as much to law makers as the number of people who eat Bran Flakes.
I've cam back several times after the NGE, and get bored after a few months. The main reason I left was the lack of the community that was once there. I was part of a good guild that did weekly events and usually had a pretty good turn out for them. Sometimes we had to form two groups. Now, you can barely find enough people to form on full group.
Bogie
Corellian Run
Jedi Sentinel
Is there nothing at all that closely resembles the MMO market? Are you aware of any Asian regulations concerning MMO's (particularily RMT's)?
If there are no precedents then all the more reason for a change as this problem can get much, much worse. The industry (particularily SOE) has shown that they cannot regulate themselves, and this I see as being quite dangerous.
If there are no possible methods then the importance of consumers to take a stand is paramount.
Is there nothing at all that closely resembles the MMO market? Are you aware of any Asian regulations concerning MMO's (particularily RMT's)?
If there are no precedents then all the more reason for a change as this problem can get much, much worse. The industry (particularily SOE) has shown that they cannot regulate themselves, and this I see as being quite dangerous.
If there are no possible methods then the importance of consumers to take a stand is paramount.
Hehe, you make it sound like the world is gonna end; these things happen all the time no matter what industry - throwing in a bunch of regualtions wouldnt help, it would constrict the MMO industry and also prevent you from getting Pre-CU back (not that its gonna come anyway).
Again, I have to ask you to consider the possibilty of a compromise as I mentioned earlier. I'll also ask you to take a moment and consider how open that "Gameplay may change" line is.
It s a very strong power they have over the products we buy, and I for one find that very disconcerting. Consumers get angry over an increase of a few pennies on the price of gas, yet spend $50 on a game and have it virtually decimated overnight and people simply roll over and accept it?