Since the pvp city places are limited on each server to begin with, only the 'guilds' who get to these places first and establish a city, first, will have had access to the content of making your own player city while other 'late' players will simply be forced to join these 'guilds' ideas of a player city blisstopia or simply not join a player city at all. The option for every guild to make its own city is removed in favour of a 1st come 1st served system.
Isn't the whole point of those PVP citys to be CAPTURED by your guild, not given to you?
I still can't understand this desire for game to be the same for everyone playing it, that would be singleplayer then, where anyone playing expiriences the exact same events. If the only way to be a part of a guild city is to join a certain guild, then join it and stop crying FFS.
The article mentioned "mercenaries" helping defend the city. Does anyone know if this means NPC's, like DAoC's realm or keep (which can be upgraded by PC's) guards, or allied guilds or a combination of both? I would hope that smaller (=non-uber) guilds could hire NPC's or allow allied guilds to help defend. By extension, I would if guilds can bring in allied guilds (I'm assume no NPC's) to help attack? I would hope that there is a limit to the number of attackers and defenders too so it is more like a raid-encounter and less of a zerg/lag-fest/slideshow; DAoC relic raids anyone?
I have quite a few major issues with the so called siege pvp part of this game. I've seen it tried before in diffrent games and it always ends up as total mess.
Just to name you one game that tried this is Legend of Mir. One city in there could be owned by a guild. And every Sunday at 6 pm other guilds had chance of getting it. And every freaking Sunday the servers were down between 6 and 8 pm cause it just couldn't take the load of so many ppl in one spot doing so much.
Secondly the actual player had huge problem with lag cause having so many players together actually fighting is a whole other issue than standing around players that are doing nothing. So lagfest it was. And what will happen if about 1k ppl want to come and watch ? Legend of mir had about 2000 OVERALL players and it was still major problem.
Thirdly - This siege battle in LOM and in few other games are very disruptive to the casual players. Even tho these fights seem to take place in certain areas - it doesn't mean that other players should not be able to gather resouces, even if they are NOT in a guild.
And last part. I really dont think FC actually understands the basics of online playing. It has very little to do with fighting. It's about power and influence based on totally diffrent aspects. Ok we might see one or two battles happening. But after a guild gets the city - they will become the power of the server and use WHOLE other aspects to dominate and to destroy any possible threats. This happens in pretty much all MMORPGs to this day - where the fights are much more on the forums than ever in the game. This is very demoralising for other players and in the end it will make players STOP playing - Winner takes it all doesn't work if your paying for it with RL money - Sorry. This will happen in AOC and the so called siege fights will probably end up never happening when one or two guilds that already hold the cities will rule the server. Rest of the players will leave that server - try elsewhere or in the end quit playing.
Siege fights and Guild Cities is nothing new in MMORPG. But untill now that kinda games have FAILED misserably to maintain this gamestyle, both because of technical problems and because of the social structure and pecking order of MMO players in general. This is the reason why these features are not in the most populare games at this point. It will be intresting to see if FC can in some way make it work . At this point Im not to impressed with what Ive seen. And I doubt FC will even have these battles fully figured out when the release the game, cause its gonna be endgame content.
So if you are buying this game cause of this unique feature - then be warned.
Sieges work just fine with Lineage 2, for years now. Because one game couldn't handle the load, doesn't make it technically impossible.
I don't see a problem with siege battle, it was great fun (although was killing my day/night schedule, EU player on a US server). I sure hope that players that will join AoC know about the sieges as players from WAR know about the city battles (can't find a better name, sorry). I wasn't expecting to find somebody arguing that these features actually hinder the game experience instead of enhance it. I guess I must be weird.
It is heartening to see the negative reactions raiding now produces from more and more MMORPG players. Developers now need to learn that. The PvP will be what people will want in AoC, I think, not tedious, time-sink raids. They can get those in WoW.
Yeah, I think what happens is that most people will give the whole raid grinding/farming thing a try the first time they play a game that has it (like I did in EQ) but after they've gone through it once most of them don't want to do it again.
So after EQ there were quite a few people who had had their fill of it. The problem was that the hardcore raiders are, on average, much more vocal than any other group. So although they were outnumbered they still had the loudest voice. But now that people have gone through it in WoW and are starting to get burned out on it there I'm noticing more and more people rebelling against the old raid farming design.
Hopefully more and more devs will figure this out as time goes by. Unfortunately the AoC devs are still stuck in the old way of thinking.
What's really sad is that AoC was going to be raid free till about a year ago, then they suddenly changed their minds and now have gone the polar opposite. What that indicates to me is that they got lazy and didn't want to have to deal with real content, they could get the game out sooner if they used redundant raid dungeons to keep the loudest mouths on the net busy. I was already turned off by their twitch based combat, but I'll never do a raid based MMO ever again.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
report 1-3 shows promising facts. i agree that raid looks pretty much the easy way to get some high-end-content into the game. it is too sad, noone comes up with something really new. i followed the market since about a year and everything thrown out has some dust of old-school with it. some smell just bad, some smell like WoW and some are just not ready. what in the world should one play, if one can think more than 2 minutes ahead?
taking raids out and assumeing the game will be ready at launch, it looks worth a try to me.
personally I prefer crafted items, coz you can have something different from others, besides, it is customised under certain situation, more suitable for yourself
Ok, i've been up and down most of the info thats out about this game, including FC's official site, faq's etc. Apparently some people have a few things misunderstood. First off the sieges and guild cities. Funcom has said that their will be two types of guild city. The Trade villages, and the battle keep/tower. Now while there will be a limited number of battle keeps and tower (i agree not the best thing but i understand the logic behind it) the trade villages will be instanced, so every guild can have/form their own trade village. So for those of you worrying about starting your own small guild but never being fast enough nor powerful/large enough to attain or form your own city should be screaming for joy yay our salvation etc =P. The reason behind limiting the battle keeps per server is to keep things competitive as all true pvp should be. The keeps are meant to be captured and assaulted.
Also according to what i've read, Once a guild has been defeated and their keep captured the old building and fortification is torn down leaving the new occupents to refortify and rearm. Not sure if that is still what they are planning but it was apparently in the works at one point. One other interesting thing is that it was talked about that in the instanced trade villages would be areas (i assume only for the guild) for crafters to go out and collect recources ie ore wood stone etc again not sure if they are still planning to do that but it sounds like a cool idea. I for one was getting sick of fighting my way through an army of npc's only to have the recource node i was after be ninja'd by some other opertunist.
As for Raids... honestly this a MMORPG one of the main aspects of it is raids, now i'm not saying they are the end all be all reason to play, and i know i'll probably get slammed for this but you gotta admit there is a large market for it and it would be an incredibly bad decision to make the game without them. It doesn't mean they have to make the game center completely around raids and it sounds like Funcom is trying their best to create other alternatives for people who can't make raids or avoid them on principle. They have said that there will be a lot of high lvl regulara grp content as well as puting in the very interesting crafting system that provides an alternate avenue to acquire high end items.
It should also be remembered that the crafted items are the only ones that come with gem slots and allow for a deeper lvl of customization for the player. For example lets say your buddy is shoving his new 2h sword complete with Fiery graphical effect in your face he just won from the last boss in X dungeon. Viola you pull out your brand new 2h sword with dancing electricity effect with a whole list of bonus attributes etc etc. now before anyone starts screaming that the crafting items would be stronger blah blah i'm sure they will find a way to ballance it. After all it was probably the sake of ballance that they created the crafting items anyway.
Now before i get bit in the ass or anything for this let me do the qualifying (oh the joys of political correctness). I'm not a game dev, i don't have any association with FC and i'm not speaking for them. I'm just pointing out a few things that i've read of Funcom's site as well as other game news outlets such as IGN etc. This game has the potential (again in my honest opinion) to be one of if not the best MMORPG out there. And i for one am siting in rapt anticipation hoping that they will come through. i really do hope this game tears wow a new one. and if they stay true to their ideas i think it just might. Finally a true mature MMORPG.
There has never been anything like what i have become. And though you may take from me, and betray me, I will only be Stronger for it, and You will only be that much Weaker.
Comments
Isn't the whole point of those PVP citys to be CAPTURED by your guild, not given to you?
I still can't understand this desire for game to be the same for everyone playing it, that would be singleplayer then, where anyone playing expiriences the exact same events. If the only way to be a part of a guild city is to join a certain guild, then join it and stop crying FFS.
I have read in the FAQ that the PvE town area will be instanced to cater for demand for new cites.
So every large or small guild will be able to found a city.
It is only the PvP keeps and towers that are limited in number, this is done to create PvP conflict.
Every guild can have a max of 1 PvE city and 1 PvP keep or tower.
I do not see any problem with this.
The article mentioned "mercenaries" helping defend the city. Does anyone know if this means NPC's, like DAoC's realm or keep (which can be upgraded by PC's) guards, or allied guilds or a combination of both? I would hope that smaller (=non-uber) guilds could hire NPC's or allow allied guilds to help defend. By extension, I would if guilds can bring in allied guilds (I'm assume no NPC's) to help attack? I would hope that there is a limit to the number of attackers and defenders too so it is more like a raid-encounter and less of a zerg/lag-fest/slideshow; DAoC relic raids anyone?
I have quite a few major issues with the so called siege pvp part of this game. I've seen it tried before in diffrent games and it always ends up as total mess.
Just to name you one game that tried this is Legend of Mir. One city in there could be owned by a guild. And every Sunday at 6 pm other guilds had chance of getting it. And every freaking Sunday the servers were down between 6 and 8 pm cause it just couldn't take the load of so many ppl in one spot doing so much.
Secondly the actual player had huge problem with lag cause having so many players together actually fighting is a whole other issue than standing around players that are doing nothing. So lagfest it was. And what will happen if about 1k ppl want to come and watch ? Legend of mir had about 2000 OVERALL players and it was still major problem.
Thirdly - This siege battle in LOM and in few other games are very disruptive to the casual players. Even tho these fights seem to take place in certain areas - it doesn't mean that other players should not be able to gather resouces, even if they are NOT in a guild.
And last part. I really dont think FC actually understands the basics of online playing. It has very little to do with fighting. It's about power and influence based on totally diffrent aspects. Ok we might see one or two battles happening. But after a guild gets the city - they will become the power of the server and use WHOLE other aspects to dominate and to destroy any possible threats. This happens in pretty much all MMORPGs to this day - where the fights are much more on the forums than ever in the game. This is very demoralising for other players and in the end it will make players STOP playing - Winner takes it all doesn't work if your paying for it with RL money - Sorry. This will happen in AOC and the so called siege fights will probably end up never happening when one or two guilds that already hold the cities will rule the server. Rest of the players will leave that server - try elsewhere or in the end quit playing.
Siege fights and Guild Cities is nothing new in MMORPG. But untill now that kinda games have FAILED misserably to maintain this gamestyle, both because of technical problems and because of the social structure and pecking order of MMO players in general. This is the reason why these features are not in the most populare games at this point. It will be intresting to see if FC can in some way make it work . At this point Im not to impressed with what Ive seen. And I doubt FC will even have these battles fully figured out when the release the game, cause its gonna be endgame content.
So if you are buying this game cause of this unique feature - then be warned.
Sieges work just fine with Lineage 2, for years now. Because one game couldn't handle the load, doesn't make it technically impossible.
I don't see a problem with siege battle, it was great fun (although was killing my day/night schedule, EU player on a US server). I sure hope that players that will join AoC know about the sieges as players from WAR know about the city battles (can't find a better name, sorry). I wasn't expecting to find somebody arguing that these features actually hinder the game experience instead of enhance it. I guess I must be weird.
So after EQ there were quite a few people who had had their fill of it. The problem was that the hardcore raiders are, on average, much more vocal than any other group. So although they were outnumbered they still had the loudest voice. But now that people have gone through it in WoW and are starting to get burned out on it there I'm noticing more and more people rebelling against the old raid farming design.
Hopefully more and more devs will figure this out as time goes by. Unfortunately the AoC devs are still stuck in the old way of thinking.
What's really sad is that AoC was going to be raid free till about a year ago, then they suddenly changed their minds and now have gone the polar opposite. What that indicates to me is that they got lazy and didn't want to have to deal with real content, they could get the game out sooner if they used redundant raid dungeons to keep the loudest mouths on the net busy. I was already turned off by their twitch based combat, but I'll never do a raid based MMO ever again.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
report 1-3 shows promising facts. i agree that raid looks pretty much the easy way to get some high-end-content into the game. it is too sad, noone comes up with something really new. i followed the market since about a year and everything thrown out has some dust of old-school with it. some smell just bad, some smell like WoW and some are just not ready. what in the world should one play, if one can think more than 2 minutes ahead?
taking raids out and assumeing the game will be ready at launch, it looks worth a try to me.
personally I prefer crafted items, coz you can have something different from others, besides, it is customised under certain situation, more suitable for yourself
Ok, i've been up and down most of the info thats out about this game, including FC's official site, faq's etc. Apparently some people have a few things misunderstood. First off the sieges and guild cities. Funcom has said that their will be two types of guild city. The Trade villages, and the battle keep/tower. Now while there will be a limited number of battle keeps and tower (i agree not the best thing but i understand the logic behind it) the trade villages will be instanced, so every guild can have/form their own trade village. So for those of you worrying about starting your own small guild but never being fast enough nor powerful/large enough to attain or form your own city should be screaming for joy yay our salvation etc =P. The reason behind limiting the battle keeps per server is to keep things competitive as all true pvp should be. The keeps are meant to be captured and assaulted.
Also according to what i've read, Once a guild has been defeated and their keep captured the old building and fortification is torn down leaving the new occupents to refortify and rearm. Not sure if that is still what they are planning but it was apparently in the works at one point. One other interesting thing is that it was talked about that in the instanced trade villages would be areas (i assume only for the guild) for crafters to go out and collect recources ie ore wood stone etc again not sure if they are still planning to do that but it sounds like a cool idea. I for one was getting sick of fighting my way through an army of npc's only to have the recource node i was after be ninja'd by some other opertunist.
As for Raids... honestly this a MMORPG one of the main aspects of it is raids, now i'm not saying they are the end all be all reason to play, and i know i'll probably get slammed for this but you gotta admit there is a large market for it and it would be an incredibly bad decision to make the game without them. It doesn't mean they have to make the game center completely around raids and it sounds like Funcom is trying their best to create other alternatives for people who can't make raids or avoid them on principle. They have said that there will be a lot of high lvl regulara grp content as well as puting in the very interesting crafting system that provides an alternate avenue to acquire high end items.
It should also be remembered that the crafted items are the only ones that come with gem slots and allow for a deeper lvl of customization for the player. For example lets say your buddy is shoving his new 2h sword complete with Fiery graphical effect in your face he just won from the last boss in X dungeon. Viola you pull out your brand new 2h sword with dancing electricity effect with a whole list of bonus attributes etc etc. now before anyone starts screaming that the crafting items would be stronger blah blah i'm sure they will find a way to ballance it. After all it was probably the sake of ballance that they created the crafting items anyway.
Now before i get bit in the ass or anything for this let me do the qualifying (oh the joys of political correctness). I'm not a game dev, i don't have any association with FC and i'm not speaking for them. I'm just pointing out a few things that i've read of Funcom's site as well as other game news outlets such as IGN etc. This game has the potential (again in my honest opinion) to be one of if not the best MMORPG out there. And i for one am siting in rapt anticipation hoping that they will come through. i really do hope this game tears wow a new one. and if they stay true to their ideas i think it just might. Finally a true mature MMORPG.
There has never been anything like what i have become. And though you may take from me, and betray me, I will only be Stronger for it, and You will only be that much Weaker.