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What's the most hardcore MMO out there?

Tough question if you stop to think about it, because a lot of the MMO's now are casual friendly. Is Vanguard the most hardcore right now? [my PC can't handle it, oh well] My first thought was EVE-Online, but actually it isn't because there is no "grinding" as such, yet the PvP part is arguably the harshest.

Just want to get an idea what everyone thinks is still the most hardcore MMO, in terms of everything, PvP, 'accessible' etc. I guess when AoC is released that could be called hardcore [but that's a different type of hardcore :p].

Does an MMO with a lower population make it more hardcore, because the economy is bonkers, there aren't enough players and resources?

No annoying animated GIF here!

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Comments

  • Zaxx99Zaxx99 Somewhere IN, INPosts: 1,761Member

    I'd have to say that Asheron's Call on the Darktide server is the most hardcore, especially if you don't belong to a good guild that can help you level and stuff these days.

    - Zaxx

    image

  • ShoalShoal Santa Clara, CAPosts: 1,156Member

    I think you are incorrect.

    EVE is currently the Hardcore baseline.

    Full FFA PvP

    Massive player driven Economy

    Plenty of 'Grinding' if you want that sort of play.

    Only thing it does not have is 'Permadeath'.

    And if you really want that, you can do it yourself.

    You get Podded without a Clone, delete your character.

  • OrihuelaOrihuela Doral, FLPosts: 115Member

    Lineage II !

  • KanuvaniKanuvani Windsor, ONPosts: 33Member

    EVE Online...big time!!

  • Paragus1Paragus1 Philadelphia, PAPosts: 1,739Member Uncommon

    For pure PvE, I'd have to go with FFXI.  It's probably the best pure PvE game out there, but it requires a lot of time and is very challenging.

  • TorakTorak xxxxxxxxxPosts: 4,905Member

    Lineage 2 will kick your as* backwards and forwards...twice...then again for fun. Its made by people who hate you and want you to suffer.

    Everything is hardcore in L2. F*cking swinging your sword cost money.

     

  • CzzarreCzzarre Cleveland, OHPosts: 3,742Member

    I dont believe that any one game is more hard core than another. I believe it all comes back to the player him/herself. Its based on your expectations of a game ..Is your desire to be the best, have the rarest gear, be the #1 in PvP? If so, that game is going to be hard core. If your expectation is just having fun with friends, chatting, maybe throwing a group together...then its not

    Torrential

  • VrazuleVrazule Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 1,095Member

    Out of the games I"ve played, I'd have to say FFXI would be the most hardcore, with EQ coming in a close second.

    With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal

  • paulscottpaulscott WI rapids, WIPosts: 5,613Member

    you have the option to be so in WurmOnline.

     

    150+ skills to get up to 99.999... which no one has reached in any one skill after about half a year.

    after that you also have a permadeath option that a few people actually take.

    I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.

  • Zaxx99Zaxx99 Somewhere IN, INPosts: 1,761Member

    Actually.. come to think of it..

    The most hardcore game BY FAR is none of these...

    It's easily "Entropia Universe".

    This game will cost you money. Not just a little either. To actually play the game and equip yourself and buy a decent gun and armor and stuff will cost you like $40 I think. Then fighting your armor will wear out anf require repairs (more real money) and your gun will run out of ammo (more real money). If you are lucky and good, you'll kill a few mobs and maybe get about $1.00 worth of crap off of those mobs.

    But just think, if you skill up, it'll prolly only cost you about $10,000 or more to get halfway skilled when you can kill some of the more deadly mobs and perhaps find $20 worth of loot per kill. LOL.

    The sad thing is that I am really not exaggerating that much at all.

    And THAT is true hardcore to invest in a game like that. It IS fun, I'll admit that. But it is BY FAR the most hardcore game I've ever played.


    - Zaxx

    image

  • paulscottpaulscott WI rapids, WIPosts: 5,613Member

    real life.

    forced perma death, learning new skills takes a lot of time, officially having those skills so you can rise on the class ranking can cost the upwards and beyond 40,000 per year,  cybering can also involve getting a baby which you then have to take care of for the next 20 something years.

    I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.

  • Zaxx99Zaxx99 Somewhere IN, INPosts: 1,761Member


    Originally posted by paulscott
    real life.
    forced perma death, learning new skills takes a lot of time, officially having those skills so you can rise on the class ranking can cost the upwards and beyond 40,000 per year, cybering can also involve getting a baby which you then have to take care of for the next 20 something years.

    Yeh, but I hate it when you can't cast magic spells like fireballs and ice blasts from your bare hands, and "real life" just doesn't have that kinda magic system in place. No fun! Graphics are top-notch tho! LOL.


    - Zaxx

    image

  • SharajatSharajat Sharajat, INPosts: 926Member
    Originally posted by zaxtor99


     

    Originally posted by paulscott

    real life.

    forced perma death, learning new skills takes a lot of time, officially having those skills so you can rise on the class ranking can cost the upwards and beyond 40,000 per year, cybering can also involve getting a baby which you then have to take care of for the next 20 something years.

     

    Yeh, but I hate it when you can't cast magic spells like fireballs and ice blasts from your bare hands, and "real life" just doesn't have that kinda magic system in place. No fun! Graphics are top-notch tho! LOL.



    - Zaxx

    Really?  Most of the screenshots I've seen seem 'shopped.    

    In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

    -Thomas Jefferson

  • SheistaSheista Nixa, MOPosts: 1,203Member Uncommon

    EVE and FFXI.  Either is harder than the other but in different aspects.

  • XenduliXenduli ooPosts: 654Member

    Great choices so far (Esp RL ha-ha!!).

    Just been reading up on FFXI, is that the only MMO where you can actually lose levels?

    Hmm are there no raids or "partys" in FFXI?

    No annoying animated GIF here!

  • GodliestGodliest StockholmPosts: 3,486Member


    Originally posted by paulscott
    real life.
    forced perma death, learning new skills takes a lot of time, officially having those skills so you can rise on the class ranking can cost the upwards and beyond 40,000 per year, cybering can also involve getting a baby which you then have to take care of for the next 20 something years.

    Too lacking in endgame content imo. You never really get maxed out. You're only top notch at around lvl 20 and then you're either high or drunk all the time. Rising in class ranking takes ages too, you're pretty much dead when you reach the highest levels. A huge time sink too, if you don't log on often enough your character will die out of starvation or simply from his bladder exploding.

    image

    image

  • devils_hymndevils_hymn kapolei, HIPosts: 322Member

    diablo 2 lod hardmode on the hardest difficulty with a rushed lvl 1

  • GurkzGurkz DublinPosts: 126Member

    L2 hands down no one even comes close.  I have played some of the others and they are a nice walk in the park compaired to L2.  It would take you 4 years of hardcore play to level to max level.  On top of that pvp is very unforgiving.  I dont even know if the game is possible without buying adena/pl.

    image
    Sig by WhiskeyJack1

  • METALDRAG0NMETALDRAG0N PeterboroughPosts: 1,680Member
    Originally posted by zaxtor99


     

    Originally posted by paulscott

    real life.

    forced perma death, learning new skills takes a lot of time, officially having those skills so you can rise on the class ranking can cost the upwards and beyond 40,000 per year, cybering can also involve getting a baby which you then have to take care of for the next 20 something years.

     

    Yeh, but I hate it when you can't cast magic spells like fireballs and ice blasts from your bare hands, and "real life" just doesn't have that kinda magic system in place. No fun! Graphics are top-notch tho! LOL.



    - Zaxx

    Yea the Dev team says that there is a bug in the F.A.I.T.H system that was around since patch No. 0001 BC which was patched in when the last Messiah heroic class died.

    "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
    -- Jean Rostand

  • savagebeastsavagebeast sacramento, CAPosts: 15Member

    it's either between EVE and FFXI.

     

    I remember once dying in FFXI and lost all of the exp that took me 4 hours to get... it was really harsh at the lower levels where transportation took hours. The game has a unforgiving system for grinding (I enjoyed it) and working towards gear...

     

    I don't know enough about EVE from personal experience, but I've heard good things from friends.

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon

    Eve CAN be difficult, but also note that to get to max level in Eve requires only that you log on 30 seconds a day to change which skill your subconscious is training.  You can get to max level witout ever leaving your initial spawn point in the space station.  If you want gear and riches; that's more work.

    L2 sounds like it's very tough.  I was going to mention Everquest as the most hardcore (even though leveling is MUCH easier nowadays).

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • SheistaSheista Nixa, MOPosts: 1,203Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Arclan


    Not to hate on Eve, but Eve is potentially the easiest game in the history of games.  The *only* thing you need to do to get to max level is to log on for 30 seconds once a day to change which skill your subconscious is training.  Your character can get to max level without moving one inch from your initial spawning point (inside a space station).  If you want gear and riches; that's more work.
    L2 sounds like it's very tough.  I was going to mention Everquest as the most hardcore (even though leveling is MUCH easier nowadays).

    Um, no.  You couldn't get to max 'level' without playing the game.  How do you suppose you're going to make the money to buy these skills?  They go up significantly in price later on.  You don't just magically start with all the skills and just tell them to train.  You start with a handful of skills and purchase your next ones, which often have prerequisites that are other skills.

    Not only that, but you're thinking in very straight forward and narrow terms - That being only character advancement.  You haven't taken into account how hard the game is to even learn.  You haven't taken into account the penalties for dying, which can easily set you back several days or more if you aren't prepared.  You haven't taken into account game mechanics, which can fall under 'learning'.  There are many mechanics that players who are even a year old in the game still don't know how to use to their advantage, and which were discovered mostly by other players over time.

    But that's going past your original point - in that you can supposedly train from start to finish sitting in your station doing nothing.  Which is simply not true in any way.  You would have to play the game in order to gain the finances to advance your character, and in order to best earn finances you will have to better equip and skill yourself.  They each need each other to function better.

    Don't tell me your idea of playing a game is to not actually play it.  My advancement in EVE may happen even while I'm logged off, but when I log on and actually play the game every day, it is very challenging and rewarding.  The fact that my character advances while I'm offline is simply to make things slightly easier.  It doesn't take away from the fact that it will still take me a long time and effort, and a lot of money to get where I want to go in the game.

  • Myzery78Myzery78 Prospect, CTPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by Sheista


     
    Originally posted by Arclan


    Not to hate on Eve, but Eve is potentially the easiest game in the history of games.  The *only* thing you need to do to get to max level is to log on for 30 seconds once a day to change which skill your subconscious is training.  Your character can get to max level without moving one inch from your initial spawning point (inside a space station).  If you want gear and riches; that's more work.
    L2 sounds like it's very tough.  I was going to mention Everquest as the most hardcore (even though leveling is MUCH easier nowadays).

     

    Um, no.  You couldn't get to max 'level' without playing the game.  How do you suppose you're going to make the money to buy these skills?  They go up significantly in price later on.  You don't just magically start with all the skills and just tell them to train.  You start with a handful of skills and purchase your next ones, which often have prerequisites that are other skills.

    Not only that, but you're thinking in very straight forward and narrow terms - That being only character advancement.  You haven't taken into account how hard the game is to even learn.  You haven't taken into account the penalties for dying, which can easily set you back several days or more if you aren't prepared.  You haven't taken into account game mechanics, which can fall under 'learning'.  There are many mechanics that players who are even a year old in the game still don't know how to use to their advantage, and which were discovered mostly by other players over time.

    But that's going past your original point - in that you can supposedly train from start to finish sitting in your station doing nothing.  Which is simply not true in any way.  You would have to play the game in order to gain the finances to advance your character, and in order to best earn finances you will have to better equip and skill yourself.  They each need each other to function better.

    Don't tell me your idea of playing a game is to not actually play it.  My advancement in EVE may happen even while I'm logged off, but when I log on and actually play the game every day, it is very challenging and rewarding.  The fact that my character advances while I'm offline is simply to make things slightly easier.  It doesn't take away from the fact that it will still take me a long time and effort, and a lot of money to get where I want to go in the game.



    While he may have simplified things, his point is still basically solid. The more expensive skills still dont cost all that much. Just a month ago I dumped 100m on an alt and started his skills training. All the advanced learning skills I bought didnt take much out of that cash, and one lucky implant drop paid for it all.

  • SheistaSheista Nixa, MOPosts: 1,203Member Uncommon

    You're still playing the game with another character though to support the second, correct?  Thus, you're still playing the game.

    He's looking at the game as if people never intended to play it and saying since one aspect of the game is easy, the entire thing is then easy.  Or at least, that's how it certainly came off.

     

    Edit:  And that's assuming someone is at the point where they can just drop that much money on a character.  It would be literally impossible if you were not playing the game at some point, especially to support a character well past only a few months worth of training.  Nobody just starting the game is going to be able to drop that kind of money like it's nothing for a long time.  And certainly not by sitting in their starting station and setting skills to train instead of playing the game as it's meant to be.

  • Myzery78Myzery78 Prospect, CTPosts: 15Member

    Not really relevant to the discussion but actually no, Im not playing it. I just log on to train my skills, and probably wont actually play for a month or two more. Training up the learning skills is a pain, but then thats true of the skill system. Having to maintain an account for 6-9 months before I can actually do what I want is a little rediculous.

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